|
Russian Federation23 Posts
@turtles
Hi!
I have a question. I've imported several builds from the spawning tool and tried them out. But 1) not all steps get an audio comand (audio build) and 2) sometimes they do but with delay 30-40 sec. I was trying it out and at some point realized that refinery is late and on a card it should've been built 30 sec ago - and then after 10 sec goes audio "build a refinery".
And also two requests:
1. can you do an only-audio feature (audio build with no card, no vizualisinng)
2. also a feature when an audio command goes a few second earlier - so that there is some time to perform it?
Thank you a lot for this new oppurtunity to learn SC2!
|
1) Just a notification based on the supply or the time, like "Move Overlord XY" or "Stop producing drones"
2) Actions based on other events like "100 Gas" or "200 Minerals". Example: "@100 Gas: Lair"
3) Specify the amount. When you have to build 5 Overlords, then you don't have 5 elements in the list, just "Overlord (5)". If you build one, it's counting down.
1) I would like to allow people to put comments in their build so they can set whatever reminders they want in there. Also they could chose from a list of predefined commands such as "attack your opponent", "stop producing workers", "take map control" etc. I already have the audio for these commands recorded but I haven't built them into the mod yet.
2) When you add a step to the build order you can set supply and time to zero and SALT will ignore the time and supply requirement. It will wait till you have the resources available before telling you to do that step.
3) I would like to. But it would be a big task and involve rewritting a lot of code for it to work so it's a daunting challenge. Also it would be easy if the player is manually creating a build like you are but if they are importing a build from spawningtool or if I get around to players being able to record their build as they play it would be tricky figuring out how to do it. If they build 2 roaches, an extractor, another roach, a queen and a 4th roach how should that be displayed. Theres's no simple answer as to how best to do that.
Thanks for the suggestions. They're things that have been on my radar for a while but haven't been able to incorporate yet. Coming Soon ™ © Blizzard.
I have a question. I've imported several builds from the spawning tool and tried them out. But 1) not all steps get an audio comand (audio build) and 2) sometimes they do but with delay 30-40 sec. I was trying it out and at some point realized that refinery is late and on a card it should've been built 30 sec ago - and then after 10 sec goes audio "build a refinery".
There are 5 things that SALT checks before giving an audio command - time, supply, previous steps, availability and resources. It will only give the command once all of these conditions are satisfied.
Examples of where this would come into effect:
+ Show Spoiler +So you may have a scenario such as a build order step saying to build a barracks at 40 supply and 5 minutes. This build was copied from a pro replay so they are obviously better at macro than us mortals so that's the supply they had. However when we play it we might only have 32 supply at the 5 minute mark so SALT will wait for you to macro up a bit to 40 supply before telling you to build the barracks.
If the next step is a refinery like your example it might wait till you have enough resources to build the refinery but you built an extra worker instead so you can't afford it. SALT will wait till you have the 75 minerals required before instructing you to build the refinery.
Another scenario might be that the next step is a marauder. SALT will wait till you have both a free baracks and a tech lab before giving you the instruction to build a marauder. Otherwise it would just tell you to build one but there's nothing you can do. So if you keep queuing up marines instead, it will never give you the marauder instruction.
The other possibility is that it's my fault and there's a problem with SALT. If you experience the audio missing or going off when you think it shouldn't if you could send me the replay file that would really help me fix the issue. PM me and I'll give you an email address you can send the replay to
I tried to do what I could to make the audio commands relevant to what the player is doing at the time instead of stringently sticking to the build order. That way I think it can best help people through the build from the beginner who is 5 minutes behind on the build they are learning to the expert who is perfecting it. Both players will get the audio reminder as it becomes relevant.
And also two requests:
1. can you do an only-audio feature (audio build with no card, no vizualisinng)
2. also a feature when an audio command goes a few second earlier - so that there is some time to perform it?
1)
Go to menu-> SALT options -> build order options. There you can set up all sorts of options to set the display as you like. You could even change the x and y positions on the screen to make it be off screen if you want it to disapear completely.
My prefered location is to set the location to bottom left, display about 4 steps and change x and y such that the build is displayed between the minimap and the unit wire frames. Theres a big dead space there in the games UI which is nothing but blackness and the build fits nicely into the UI there. You don't even notice it unless you are looking for it. (also remember to use the custom games and not the extension mod if you want the settings to be saved, that way you don't have to set it up each time).
2)
Actually SALT already does this too. it gives you the instruction a few seconds before it is relevant. For example it will tell you at 4:55 to build a factory which is due at 5:00, wait till you have approx 180 minerals before telling you to build a spawning pool (200 minerals) or wait until that last marine queued in the barracks is 95% complete before telling you to build a new one.
Thanks for suggestions guys. They help. There's a lot of ideas people have given me that could improve SALT that I never would have thought of myself.
|
I've used this tool for a while, a great one, remind me of yabot but more features and updated
|
Russian Federation23 Posts
There are 5 things that SALT checks before giving an audio command - time, supply, previous steps, availability and resources. It will only give the command once all of these conditions are satisfied.
Oh, this is all so close to perfection. ))
About this 5 things. There was a time when my build order was on a paper - with exact time, supply, and there was each worker that I had to build. Actually it was very helpful but slightly inconvenient since I had to distract attention to check out before the next step. So, the dream-idea "what if this would be with audio commands' came. Trying it out I was behind after 3-4 min.mark but all the same, tried to match each time and supply. And then I would restart and next time it would be better.
So, what I'm saying is that I would really like an option to somehow include the priority:
- Audio command goes when (for instance) time-mark is hit - regardless of what supply or have/do not a resources...
It's just the way that in my opinion is more efficient to learn a build order.
P.s. About comments to steps such as "stop producing workers' or "send a worker to scout" or "switch factory-starport to reactor" is really good thought!
|
2) When you add a step to the build order you can set supply and time to zero and SALT will ignore the time and supply requirement. It will wait till you have the resources available before telling you to do that step.
Yeah, just noticed that after a while 
3) I would like to. But it would be a big task and involve rewritting a lot of code for it to work so it's a daunting challenge. Also it would be easy if the player is manually creating a build like you are but if they are importing a build from spawningtool or if I get around to players being able to record their build as they play it would be tricky figuring out how to do it. If they build 2 roaches, an extractor, another roach, a queen and a 4th roach how should that be displayed. Theres's no simple answer as to how best to do that.
As a software developer I understand your problems. It's just a "Nice to have" not a "Must have"
But that brings me to another suggestion:
How about create your build by just playing it? For every step you make, the mod creates a new step in the build order with the current time and supply.
|
Hi Turtles! Thx for the amazing work... i have problems to practice against a specific AI, like GTAI develop by NeoBlade,,, because the IA make nothing she stay in 6 workers then i can practice my BO but i dont have a challenger to simulate some scenarios like 3 hatch before pool against Blink stalker....any chance that you can fix this bug... :D
|
How about create your build by just playing it? For every step you make, the mod creates a new step in the build order with the current time and supply.
Will probably be the next feature I implement. It will be easy to do from a technical perspective. The UI I'm not so sure about. Maybe a button in the menu like menu->build orders->record. Then the build order is displayed like normal except starts blank and steps get added on as you make them, and has a pause button so you can stop recording. I would have to see if refreshing the display caused any lag but it should be fine.
Hi Turtles! Thx for the amazing work... i have problems to practice against a specific AI, like GTAI develop by NeoBlade,,, because the IA make nothing she stay in 6 workers then i can practice my BO but i dont have a challenger to simulate some scenarios like 3 hatch before pool against Blink stalker....any chance that you can fix this bug... :D
Thanks Deimos,
AIs are designed to play a normal game of starcraft. But with a map like SALT which lets you manipulate the game through the menu the AI does not know what's going on. It gets confused and is not sure what to do so it does nothing.
I am working on my own AI project. Since it shares a lot of code with SALT the two projects will be compatible but my AI project is still in the development stage and won't be complete for a verry, verry long time.
|
Russian Federation23 Posts
On January 06 2015 09:19 Deimos wrote:
Hi Turtles! Thx for the amazing work... i have problems to practice against a specific AI, like GTAI develop by NeoBlade,,, because the IA make nothing she stay in 6 workers then i can practice my BO but i dont have a challenger to simulate some scenarios like 3 hatch before pool against Blink stalker....any chance that you can fix this bug... :D
Hi, Deimos! Actually it's better to practice in a less stressful situation - even not controlling your army at all, just focusing on a build. It's just that most of us get boring and try to practice along playing ladder, and even ver.AI an effect is not good 'cause you first need to refine your macro of a build and only after that (when macro is soild) controlling an army. It's of course my opinion and you would better know for yourself.
|
Russian Federation23 Posts
On January 05 2015 15:53 Sufi-1989 wrote:Show nested quote +
There are 5 things that SALT checks before giving an audio command - time, supply, previous steps, availability and resources. It will only give the command once all of these conditions are satisfied.
Oh, this is all so close to perfection. )) About this 5 things. There was a time when my build order was on a paper - with exact time, supply, and there was each worker that I had to build. Actually it was very helpful but slightly inconvenient since I had to distract attention to check out before the next step. So, the dream-idea "what if this would be with audio commands' came. Trying it out I was behind after 3-4 min.mark but all the same, tried to match each time and supply. And then I would restart and next time it would be better. So, what I'm saying is that I would really like an option to somehow include the priority: - Audio command goes when (for instance) time-mark is hit - regardless of what supply or have/do not a resources... It's just the way that in my opinion is more efficient to learn a build order. P.s. About comments to steps such as "stop producing workers' or "send a worker to scout" or "switch factory-starport to reactor" is really good thought!
OK. Aside from a priority-option for audio. I'm playing now and there is something wrong with audio. I decided that even without a priority-option there won't be a big deviation form build order but it seems that audio sometimes just won't go.
Here what happens, comparing time-supply-resources.
Build order: Barracks-2:32-14-150 miner
I have: 3:00-17-235 miner
So, and audio doesn't say to build barracks wich is strange.
You said about previous steps.
So previous was - build a CC. It's building currently.
Question: does an audio WAITS TILL THE CC IS DONE?
If so it's annoying...
P.s. SALT encoding from here: http://spawningtool.com/16700/
|
Thanks Sufi. Yeah, that sounds like a bug, definitely. I've got some time tomorrow and will look into it.
Thanks.
|
Here what happens, comparing time-supply-resources. Build order: Barracks-2:32-14-150 miner I have: 3:00-17-235 miner So, and audio doesn't say to build barracks wich is strange. You said about previous steps. So previous was - build a CC. It's building currently. Question: does an audio WAITS TILL THE CC IS DONE? If so it's annoying... P.s. SALT encoding from here: http://spawningtool.com/16700/
It won't wait till the CC is finished. The step before is the CC so it will wait till you begin construction before telling you to build a barracks.
I've played through that build order 4 times this afternoon. Experimented a little bit trying to get it to fail but each time it played the audio instructions when it should have. I couldn't reproduce the problem but if it happens again could you save the replay for me? it would help to be able to see it happen in action.
I'll PM you my email address just in case you have the replay saved from last time.
|
Thanks for making this tool, It's great and I really enjoy it!
I just have one problem though, I use a custom hotkey setup that has two of my hotkeys on '[' and ']' I can't seem to change this with the in-game menu as it only accepts alpha-numeric characters. and I can't change it in the Bank file because I don't know the keycodes. Any way I can use my custom hotkeys? Thanks.
|
Russian Federation23 Posts
On January 08 2015 06:27 FightinGandhi wrote:
Thanks for making this tool, It's great and I really enjoy it!
I just have one problem though, I use a custom hotkey setup that has two of my hotkeys on '[' and ']' I can't seem to change this with the in-game menu as it only accepts alpha-numeric characters. and I can't change it in the Bank file because I don't know the keycodes. Any way I can use my custom hotkeys? Thanks.
I use even "the core" hotkey setup and in SALT didn't have to change anything, works fine.
However, maybe, it impacts only a customization of the default setup, don't know... or if we create a new hotkey-profile than it doesn't any changes in SALT.
|
Sufi, I fixed the problem you were experiencing. Thankyou for emailing me the replay or I would never have been able to figure it out by myself.
explanation of why it was happening...
+ Show Spoiler +As I said: There are 5 things that SALT checks before giving an audio command - time, supply, previous steps, availability and resources. It will only give the command once all of these conditions are satisfied.
Part of availability is that it will wait till you have the dependencies before giving you the audio command. For instance it will wait till you have a completed factory before telling you to build hellions. What you were doing was lowering your supply depots when they are built. However I've now discovered that SC2 considers supply depots and lowered supply depots to be two seperate types of buildings. So when it was time to build a barracks SALT was looking for the dependency (supply depots) and failing that it was waiting instead. It would eventually tell you to build the barracks when you built your second supply depot which was raised. It was confusing to figure out the problem but an easy fix once I saw what was going on. It now looks for EITHER a lowered OR a raised supply depot.
I just have one problem though, I use a custom hotkey setup that has two of my hotkeys on '[' and ']' I can't seem to change this with the in-game menu as it only accepts alpha-numeric characters. and I can't change it in the Bank file because I don't know the keycodes. Any way I can use my custom hotkeys? Thanks.
You must mean the hotkeys for control groups, correct?
If you use [ and ] for control groups then they are probably not be saving/loading. I've never heard of anyone having this problem before, I guess everyone else uses letters, numbers or F1-F12 keys for control groups. Changing the bank won't help you because you'll still have the same problem.
I'll just have to add support for the [];',./-=` keys in SALT.
I'll work on some of the changes suggested in these last posts but won't be able to start on them till next week.
|
On January 09 2015 02:58 turtles wrote:Show nested quote +I just have one problem though, I use a custom hotkey setup that has two of my hotkeys on '[' and ']' I can't seem to change this with the in-game menu as it only accepts alpha-numeric characters. and I can't change it in the Bank file because I don't know the keycodes. Any way I can use my custom hotkeys? Thanks. You must mean the hotkeys for control groups, correct? If you use [ and ] for control groups then they are probably not be saving/loading. I've never heard of anyone having this problem before, I guess everyone else uses letters, numbers or F1-F12 keys for control groups. Changing the bank won't help you because you'll still have the same problem. I'll just have to add support for the [];',./-=` keys in SALT. I'll work on some of the changes suggested in these last posts but won't be able to start on them till next week.
Wow thank you that would be awesome. And yea it's a problem for saving and loading and I do for control groups. Someone above me said it works with The Core But I don't see how that would be any different, maybe he was wrong and it doesn't save and load hotkeys. But anyways if you are adding the other keys you may want to include backspace if possible because the core uses that. I'm just offering a suggestion though I don't use backspace myself but it may help someone else!
Thanks again, really enjoying this tool.
|
sorry for asking this, i guess it has been a few times before:
how do i save an additional BO so i dont have to copy paste the bo string everytime i start a new map with the mod?
|
No worries Terence,
Go into custom games and search for SALT. There should be a bunch of ladder maps that come up with the prefix SALT, eg SALT metalopolis.
Don't bother using the extension mod unless you really want to play a particular map which has not been SALT-ified. Extension mods are broken and cannot save data properly. This Blizzard bug has been around since extension mods were introduced. Nothing we can do except wait for Blizzard to fix it.
In the mean time, use the method above, that will solve your problem.
IN OTHER NEWS...
I told people I would be doing work on SALT and haven't been living up to my promises. Sorry bout that. Will try and get more stuff done soon.
|
UPDATE:
ANY and ALL hotkeys are now accepted for control groups making it compatible with the Core layout or any other custom hotkey setup. That even goes for you people with non-english keyboards with characters I've never even heard of before.
Same as before to get to them. Go menu->SALT options->hotkeys->control groups and you will be greeted with this screen:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CzhFlz1.jpg)
Once you click a control group it will prompt you for input. Press the key you use for that control group and it will record it for later use.
Remember to use SALT through one of the versions in custom games list and you can skip this step from then on. If you use the extension mod you will need to do this step at the start of every game.
Also rock towers are fixed and work properly now (but their not very common on maps now days so I guess it wasn't that big a deal?)
If you experience any issues please get back to me. Chances are someone else is also frustrated with the same issue and I can't know about it if no one tells me.
Thanks,
Turtles.
For the TL mods:
+ Show Spoiler +I never intended this thread to be for regular updates of the mod. But there are a bunch of people discussing these issues just above so I thought it topical. As well as many people who have commented on this thread and will be following it hence they will be notified.
I don't intend on posting regularly to here unless I have a BIG announcement. I hate to think that I am spamming the general forum with content that doesn't belong here. If you want me to cut it out and post about it to the custom maps section only then I totally understand and will do so.
PM me if you think it's an issue. Thanks.
excuses:
+ Show Spoiler +My slackness lately is 100% the fault of Farcry 3 which I just played for the first time. Amazing game! I already want to play it again. :D
|
I am wondering if it would be possible to have this mod accept a replay as input instead of, or as an option to, accepting Yabot strings. Basically, you would find a replay on a site like spawningtool and then download it. Once in your mod (or the map version) you would point it at the replay instead of pasting in the string. SALT could then extract the player names and races. The player using the tool (or players) could select which player they want to be, the build is extracted -- fully -- and then play can start. You would not need to click in the "specify your race" circles in the spawning location since the replay indicates that already. (in fact, clicking this is sort of weird as it is since the build you import is always race specific)
What do you think? Wouldn't this make it possible to bring in a full build instead of limiting it to a partial build like now? For example, when I try to bring in an Innovation 3CC TvZ build it gets cut off at around the 8 minute mark, well before there is even a starport built!
I love the idea of the tool and am getting good use out of it, but it is a little weird using the prompts for the first 8 minutes and then a notepad for the next 5 minutes. Especially since that last 5 minutes is when the income really spikes, the production really kicks in, and you need to multitask the attack, production, and taking the third.
|
It seems that even inside the mod, or map, you are limited in how long the build can be. Why? Is this because you are saving the build internally using the yabot (or custom) string format and limiting yourself on the length there as well?
At the very least, when I use the map version, and therefore getting my build saved with the map, I would like to have my build be longer in length. I wouldn't think you would need to artificially cap the string length at this point. Only if a user asks to "export" the build would you truncate the string to the appropriate length.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
