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about time, this was 2 years too late
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I have been thinking why Idra even got the cult following in the first place. I looks like he and most of his fans have very little empathy for the feelings of other people. Even when Idra insults the WHOLE scene, they are like "cool, he is such a boss" because they don't count themselves as part of the community. It's always someone else he is insulting. People don't like Idra for what he is, they like themselves in him.
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Thought this was Starcraft not Mannercraft -_-
I supported idra and i'm not even a zerg player. You can tell he cares for the game and the "fucks" he's talking about, are you people bashing on him right now.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I like IdrA for his skill... even if you guys say he is bad
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On May 11 2013 00:39 Cheerio wrote:
I have been thinking why Idra even got the cult following in the first place. I looks like he and most of his fans have very little empathy for the feelings of other people. Even when Idra insults the WHOLE scene, they are like "cool, he is such a boss" because they don't count themselves as part of the community. It's always someone else he is insulting. People don't like Idra for what he is, they like themselves in him.
Can speak only for myself , but I find it amusing. While I rarely bm (and i'm coming from HoN/Dota2 community  ) , he's amusing guy and really if you rate him so low why would you even care for what he says?
I just find it strange that people who get most offended have not been fans/viewers/etc... but only people who in general dislike him due to his attitude?
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i am mildly surprised (cuz i thought everyone excepted his mental issues/behaviour to that extent that kicking him wasnt an option), its gonna be interesting if he is gonna continue to play or call it a day. Personally i dont like doing stuff i dont like so as he doesnt like the game at all this could be an opportunity to actually do something that he enjoys in his life.
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On May 11 2013 00:34 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2013 00:30 TRaFFiC wrote:On May 11 2013 00:29 DamageControL wrote:On May 11 2013 00:26 TRaFFiC wrote:On May 10 2013 22:48 TheProphet_ wrote:On May 10 2013 22:42 TRaFFiC wrote:On May 10 2013 22:32 TheProphet_ wrote:
Hey for all we know maybe Idra himself realized hes been talking balooney all along and loses because he is far far away from the intelligence / superior skill of his opponents
maybe he realized he has no future playing sc2 but is too arrogant / has talked too much to just admit it so he set this up with alex to dismiss him so it doesnt look like he wanted to quit but was kinda forced to
or maybe not but who knows No way. C'mon now just look at his ladder rank. Top 3 ranked zerg on NA. Idra played very well in the first game vs polt. But, this is a game of will power, not just skill. If every time a game doesn't go perfect you quit, you're going to have a hard time making a career. It's fine to quit games in practice, but in a tournament it just proves there are some major psychological issues. Back this up with his behavior and it's more obvious. Ladder rank? Did you say that as a joke? In my mind pretty much any korean whose name is even barely known could dispatch idra 9-0 in a 9 series without hardly even trying. I'm not trying to bm just calling it like I see it, I think everyone in this thread but the hardcore fanboys agree he was only even an "asset" to his team in the sense of drawing viewers, he couldn't put up competitively. Even DeMuslim who is a great guy and good player, much better than idra and ahead of him in NA ladder just lost 16-0 to byun recently... and it wasnt like he was exploiting the same thing over and over, he was mixing it up doing all sort of stuff. And Byun is just one amongst many top koreans, the skill gap between him and demu is already huge, the skill gap between demu and idra is also gigantic so yea whatever. In my mind theres many players in NA who could compete with idra and even beat him with ease who aren't necessarily top in ladder. It doesn't mean that much honestly. On May 11 2013 00:20 Irre wrote:
I think this will end up being a good thing either way..
1) Idra quits the industry and goes to school/does other things- he will become a more whole/happy/healthy person, and his destiny was not in esports as much as thinks after all
2)Idra regains the motivation to actually be successful inside the game. Like him or hate him (and I'm not a fan btw), he has raw talent and mechanical skill and knows how to practice and get to the top. On EG the past few years since he got a comfortable salary, left korea, and just streamed a lot...he realized he didn't have to be good anymore and it turns out that lifestyle is a lot easier than being a top progamer. He even admitted this on Inside the Game when asked about going back to Korea for proleague. Idra has the potential and at one point had the drive, and it showed in how good he was, even respected in Korea!! He still shows flashes of that strength still (Blizzard world championships performance was pretty great).
EG, despite providing the resources and opportunity that every foreign progamer would dream of, was not the motivator that Idra needs. On his own, we will see if that changes. Its still so shocking to see EG without Idra...and Idra without EG. I challenge you two to name a NA zerg player who consistently is higher on ladder. Enough of this ``Idra was past his prime`` talk. Just because he doesn`t beat top level Koreans at events doesn`t mean he was past his prime skill wise. Basically no foreign player can do that. I don't know why ladder matters. In terms of NA zergs, Scarlett and Suppy are both better. And yeah, they can at least beat mid-level koreans. Ok, top 3 NA zerg. I wouldn`t call that past your prime. Top 3 NA? Probably not, I would put Suppy, Scarlett, Kane, Vibe and Goswser above him.
Basing that on what?
No one comes close to Idra in alltime achivements, and if you mean recently, well Idra beat everyone except vibe 1-2 in the last wsc (did not meet scarlett). And since then there really hasn't been anything to compare.
No one is really winning anything
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Not really shocked Idra got released pretty soon after that recent post. While quitting games and raging is one thing, a post that says "fuck the fans" whether or not it was intended at a certain audience is incredibly stupid. Without the fans, Idra's successes in BW or SC2 are basically irrelevant.
I hope that he can step up his mental game and eventually stage a comeback but until then I doubt he will be winning anything soon.
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On May 11 2013 00:41 ContactKilla wrote:
Thought this was Starcraft not Mannercraft -_-
I supported idra and i'm not even a zerg player. You can tell he cares for the game and the "fucks" he's talking about, are you people bashing on him right now.
What? Are we talking about same Idra? One that bashes Sc2 and Blizzard all the time and never fails to mention how BW was superior (I agree with him in many things)?
If anything, he does not enjoy the game and has not been for a long while.
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On May 11 2013 00:42 Facultyadjutant wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2013 00:34 Shodaa wrote:On May 11 2013 00:30 TRaFFiC wrote:On May 11 2013 00:29 DamageControL wrote:On May 11 2013 00:26 TRaFFiC wrote:On May 10 2013 22:48 TheProphet_ wrote:On May 10 2013 22:42 TRaFFiC wrote:On May 10 2013 22:32 TheProphet_ wrote:
Hey for all we know maybe Idra himself realized hes been talking balooney all along and loses because he is far far away from the intelligence / superior skill of his opponents
maybe he realized he has no future playing sc2 but is too arrogant / has talked too much to just admit it so he set this up with alex to dismiss him so it doesnt look like he wanted to quit but was kinda forced to
or maybe not but who knows No way. C'mon now just look at his ladder rank. Top 3 ranked zerg on NA. Idra played very well in the first game vs polt. But, this is a game of will power, not just skill. If every time a game doesn't go perfect you quit, you're going to have a hard time making a career. It's fine to quit games in practice, but in a tournament it just proves there are some major psychological issues. Back this up with his behavior and it's more obvious. Ladder rank? Did you say that as a joke? In my mind pretty much any korean whose name is even barely known could dispatch idra 9-0 in a 9 series without hardly even trying. I'm not trying to bm just calling it like I see it, I think everyone in this thread but the hardcore fanboys agree he was only even an "asset" to his team in the sense of drawing viewers, he couldn't put up competitively. Even DeMuslim who is a great guy and good player, much better than idra and ahead of him in NA ladder just lost 16-0 to byun recently... and it wasnt like he was exploiting the same thing over and over, he was mixing it up doing all sort of stuff. And Byun is just one amongst many top koreans, the skill gap between him and demu is already huge, the skill gap between demu and idra is also gigantic so yea whatever. In my mind theres many players in NA who could compete with idra and even beat him with ease who aren't necessarily top in ladder. It doesn't mean that much honestly. On May 11 2013 00:20 Irre wrote:
I think this will end up being a good thing either way..
1) Idra quits the industry and goes to school/does other things- he will become a more whole/happy/healthy person, and his destiny was not in esports as much as thinks after all
2)Idra regains the motivation to actually be successful inside the game. Like him or hate him (and I'm not a fan btw), he has raw talent and mechanical skill and knows how to practice and get to the top. On EG the past few years since he got a comfortable salary, left korea, and just streamed a lot...he realized he didn't have to be good anymore and it turns out that lifestyle is a lot easier than being a top progamer. He even admitted this on Inside the Game when asked about going back to Korea for proleague. Idra has the potential and at one point had the drive, and it showed in how good he was, even respected in Korea!! He still shows flashes of that strength still (Blizzard world championships performance was pretty great).
EG, despite providing the resources and opportunity that every foreign progamer would dream of, was not the motivator that Idra needs. On his own, we will see if that changes. Its still so shocking to see EG without Idra...and Idra without EG. I challenge you two to name a NA zerg player who consistently is higher on ladder. Enough of this ``Idra was past his prime`` talk. Just because he doesn`t beat top level Koreans at events doesn`t mean he was past his prime skill wise. Basically no foreign player can do that. I don't know why ladder matters. In terms of NA zergs, Scarlett and Suppy are both better. And yeah, they can at least beat mid-level koreans. Ok, top 3 NA zerg. I wouldn`t call that past your prime. Top 3 NA? Probably not, I would put Suppy, Scarlett, Kane, Vibe and Goswser above him. Basing that on what? No one comes close to Idra in alltime achivements, and if you mean recently, well Idra beat everyone except vibe 1-2 in the last wsc (did not meet scarlett). And since then there really hasn't been anything to compare. No one is really winning anything
Scarlett has definitely played better overall. Suppy actually 4-0d in WCS. And yeah Vibe.
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On May 11 2013 00:41 Simsons2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2013 00:39 Cheerio wrote:
I have been thinking why Idra even got the cult following in the first place. I looks like he and most of his fans have very little empathy for the feelings of other people. Even when Idra insults the WHOLE scene, they are like "cool, he is such a boss" because they don't count themselves as part of the community. It's always someone else he is insulting. People don't like Idra for what he is, they like themselves in him. Can speak only for myself , but I find it amusing. While I rarely bm (and i'm coming from HoN/Dota2 community ) , he's amusing guy and really if you rate him so low why would you even care for what he says? I just find it strange that people who get most offended have not been fans/viewers/etc... but only people who in general dislike him due to his attitude?
I feel like Idra fans are like abused spouses in a bad marriage  . For some reason they empathize with the abusive husband (or wife) and feel the need to give him as many chances as possible, and carry on for the sake of their relationship/kid/whatever else they think is important.
It's funny to see him abuse his own fans, and everyone still cheers him on.
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What an (unfortunately) expected turn of events.
From the first day I started playing SC2, I was an IdrA fan. I remember watching him in GSL, one of very few non-Koreans to compete on that stage, thinking, “How awesome would it be to see an American (same as me) player come out on top against all odds?” Even though it never happened, his level of play and apparent dedication to success kept me tuning in live to watch every single match he played in. It was David vs. Goliath, and it was very engaging.
Watching him play today, it seems like he has lost all desire to succeed as a professional in e-sports. He certainly has a competitive mindset, but lacks a fighting spirit. It is really difficult to tune into and be supportive of a player who has shown such open disdain not only for the game itself, but also the people who believe in him.
Why, then, does he choose to continue doing it? Why does he still want to be considered a professional Starcraft 2 player after choosing to reject the foundational principles required to hold such a position? I do not know. His in-game/in-character behavior is not an issue; every competitive sport needs a “villain” that people love to hate (all in the spirit of the game, of course), and IdrA filled that role spectacularly. It wasn’t until he took his bad-boy behavior out-of-character and started talking down to the community and his supporters directly that the issue of whether he had crossed a line was seriously raised. Up until then, IdrA’s behavior was always that of a passionate competitor with contempt for his opponents and respect for the game; a fully-defensible attitude adopted by successful competitors in intellectual pursuits before him. Losing respect for the game, however, cannot be excused and definitely heralds the ending of a professional’s career.
He and many others are absolutely right in saying that IdrA’s viewership is likely to grow as a result of this incident rather than shrink. Regardless of how anyone in e-sports may feel about it, he could probably get personal corporate sponsorships on the strength of his Twitch following alone and continue streaming as his day job while attending college and pursuing a career in something that actually brings him joy. Tournaments would probably still invite him to participate, too, if for no other reason than to pad their viewer count during his matches (scheduled during prime-time, no doubt), further augmenting his marketability. He could be successful, in his way, and still have time in his life for other things to keep the game in perspective.
Is that what I want to see happen? No, and his other fans probably don’t either. I think we want our David back. Let’s hope that these unfortunate events lead to IdrA’s rediscovery of his former passion for the game and respect for the competition (if not for his fellow competitors)!
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 11 2013 00:41 ContactKilla wrote:
Thought this was Starcraft not Mannercraft -_-
I supported idra and i'm not even a zerg player. You can tell he cares for the game and the "fucks" he's talking about, are you people bashing on him right now.
He claimed that he was payed to act like trash, EG had no choice but to let him go after a comment like that.
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On May 11 2013 00:48 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2013 00:41 Simsons2 wrote:On May 11 2013 00:39 Cheerio wrote:
I have been thinking why Idra even got the cult following in the first place. I looks like he and most of his fans have very little empathy for the feelings of other people. Even when Idra insults the WHOLE scene, they are like "cool, he is such a boss" because they don't count themselves as part of the community. It's always someone else he is insulting. People don't like Idra for what he is, they like themselves in him. Can speak only for myself , but I find it amusing. While I rarely bm (and i'm coming from HoN/Dota2 community ) , he's amusing guy and really if you rate him so low why would you even care for what he says? I just find it strange that people who get most offended have not been fans/viewers/etc... but only people who in general dislike him due to his attitude? I feel like Idra fans are like abused spouses in a bad marriage . For some reason they empathize with the abusive husband (or wife) and feel the need to give him as many chances as possible, and carry on for the sake of their relationship/kid/whatever else they think is important. It's funny to see him abuse his own fans, and everyone still cheers him on.
I believe somebody mentioned Stockholm before in the thread.
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On May 11 2013 00:45 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2013 00:42 Facultyadjutant wrote:On May 11 2013 00:34 Shodaa wrote:On May 11 2013 00:30 TRaFFiC wrote:On May 11 2013 00:29 DamageControL wrote:On May 11 2013 00:26 TRaFFiC wrote:On May 10 2013 22:48 TheProphet_ wrote:On May 10 2013 22:42 TRaFFiC wrote:On May 10 2013 22:32 TheProphet_ wrote:
Hey for all we know maybe Idra himself realized hes been talking balooney all along and loses because he is far far away from the intelligence / superior skill of his opponents
maybe he realized he has no future playing sc2 but is too arrogant / has talked too much to just admit it so he set this up with alex to dismiss him so it doesnt look like he wanted to quit but was kinda forced to
or maybe not but who knows No way. C'mon now just look at his ladder rank. Top 3 ranked zerg on NA. Idra played very well in the first game vs polt. But, this is a game of will power, not just skill. If every time a game doesn't go perfect you quit, you're going to have a hard time making a career. It's fine to quit games in practice, but in a tournament it just proves there are some major psychological issues. Back this up with his behavior and it's more obvious. Ladder rank? Did you say that as a joke? In my mind pretty much any korean whose name is even barely known could dispatch idra 9-0 in a 9 series without hardly even trying. I'm not trying to bm just calling it like I see it, I think everyone in this thread but the hardcore fanboys agree he was only even an "asset" to his team in the sense of drawing viewers, he couldn't put up competitively. Even DeMuslim who is a great guy and good player, much better than idra and ahead of him in NA ladder just lost 16-0 to byun recently... and it wasnt like he was exploiting the same thing over and over, he was mixing it up doing all sort of stuff. And Byun is just one amongst many top koreans, the skill gap between him and demu is already huge, the skill gap between demu and idra is also gigantic so yea whatever. In my mind theres many players in NA who could compete with idra and even beat him with ease who aren't necessarily top in ladder. It doesn't mean that much honestly. On May 11 2013 00:20 Irre wrote:
I think this will end up being a good thing either way..
1) Idra quits the industry and goes to school/does other things- he will become a more whole/happy/healthy person, and his destiny was not in esports as much as thinks after all
2)Idra regains the motivation to actually be successful inside the game. Like him or hate him (and I'm not a fan btw), he has raw talent and mechanical skill and knows how to practice and get to the top. On EG the past few years since he got a comfortable salary, left korea, and just streamed a lot...he realized he didn't have to be good anymore and it turns out that lifestyle is a lot easier than being a top progamer. He even admitted this on Inside the Game when asked about going back to Korea for proleague. Idra has the potential and at one point had the drive, and it showed in how good he was, even respected in Korea!! He still shows flashes of that strength still (Blizzard world championships performance was pretty great).
EG, despite providing the resources and opportunity that every foreign progamer would dream of, was not the motivator that Idra needs. On his own, we will see if that changes. Its still so shocking to see EG without Idra...and Idra without EG. I challenge you two to name a NA zerg player who consistently is higher on ladder. Enough of this ``Idra was past his prime`` talk. Just because he doesn`t beat top level Koreans at events doesn`t mean he was past his prime skill wise. Basically no foreign player can do that. I don't know why ladder matters. In terms of NA zergs, Scarlett and Suppy are both better. And yeah, they can at least beat mid-level koreans. Ok, top 3 NA zerg. I wouldn`t call that past your prime. Top 3 NA? Probably not, I would put Suppy, Scarlett, Kane, Vibe and Goswser above him. Basing that on what? No one comes close to Idra in alltime achivements, and if you mean recently, well Idra beat everyone except vibe 1-2 in the last wsc (did not meet scarlett). And since then there really hasn't been anything to compare. No one is really winning anything Scarlett has definitely played better overall. Suppy actually 4-0d in WCS. And yeah Vibe.
Also Goswser had an insane run in the last ironsquid, and that alone would qualify him to be better than idra who's done nothing since then.
The more I think about this, the more sense it makes; IdrA literally wrote that he is paid to treat fans like "fucks"... if I was working any public-facing job and I told a customer that they were a "fuck" and that I was paid to say it I'd be sacked so fast. He was paid to be a SC2 player, and maybe a bit for being entertaining, not to treat people like they're morons, even if they often are.
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On May 11 2013 00:49 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2013 00:48 Piledriver wrote:On May 11 2013 00:41 Simsons2 wrote:On May 11 2013 00:39 Cheerio wrote:
I have been thinking why Idra even got the cult following in the first place. I looks like he and most of his fans have very little empathy for the feelings of other people. Even when Idra insults the WHOLE scene, they are like "cool, he is such a boss" because they don't count themselves as part of the community. It's always someone else he is insulting. People don't like Idra for what he is, they like themselves in him. Can speak only for myself , but I find it amusing. While I rarely bm (and i'm coming from HoN/Dota2 community ) , he's amusing guy and really if you rate him so low why would you even care for what he says? I just find it strange that people who get most offended have not been fans/viewers/etc... but only people who in general dislike him due to his attitude? I feel like Idra fans are like abused spouses in a bad marriage . For some reason they empathize with the abusive husband (or wife) and feel the need to give him as many chances as possible, and carry on for the sake of their relationship/kid/whatever else they think is important. It's funny to see him abuse his own fans, and everyone still cheers him on. I believe somebody mentioned Stockholm before in the thread.
Well, this thread is 157 pages long now, so forgive me if I haven't gone through every single post lol. When I went to bed, this post was 40 pages long, and I wake up to 150 pages...
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On May 11 2013 00:48 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2013 00:41 Simsons2 wrote:On May 11 2013 00:39 Cheerio wrote:
I have been thinking why Idra even got the cult following in the first place. I looks like he and most of his fans have very little empathy for the feelings of other people. Even when Idra insults the WHOLE scene, they are like "cool, he is such a boss" because they don't count themselves as part of the community. It's always someone else he is insulting. People don't like Idra for what he is, they like themselves in him. Can speak only for myself , but I find it amusing. While I rarely bm (and i'm coming from HoN/Dota2 community ) , he's amusing guy and really if you rate him so low why would you even care for what he says? I just find it strange that people who get most offended have not been fans/viewers/etc... but only people who in general dislike him due to his attitude? I feel like Idra fans are like abused spouses in a bad marriage . For some reason they empathize with the abusive husband (or wife) and feel the need to give him as many chances as possible, and carry on for the sake of their relationship/kid/whatever else they think is important. It's funny to see him abuse his own fans, and everyone still cheers him on.
He was so close to being on the money. If he had acted with more humility towards management he would probably have been fine.
The reddit counter circlejerk is so pathetic.
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This took long enough... good luck to him in the future but SC isn't where he belongs anymore.
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Honestly, it seems like he hasn't liked the game from the get-go, so maybe it'll finally be an opportunity for him to move on. Maybe he'll keep playing and this is what he needs to push forward, but I doubt it.
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On May 11 2013 00:41 ContactKilla wrote:
the "fucks" he's talking about, are you people bashing on him right now.
well... no. Clearly his point was that he treats community like shit (all of it, even his fans) and it still supports him nonetheless. This is the type of ridiculous behavior that Idra was laughing at. The thing is all of the community doesnt support him. Most people would actually go at great lengths not to support him, including boycotting EG. But there is a decent portion of the community though that does support Idra, and they are responsible for his wellbeing for the last few years. So if there is a portion of the community that Idra was referring to specifically it's not his haters, it's the other way around.
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EPT
