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On May 10 2013 17:16 Autotroph wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 17:06 SCST wrote:On May 10 2013 17:02 Autotroph wrote:
Hate seeing people taking falls for voicing their opinion. Fucking money man. Suits try and sterilise all this and mold people into 'personalities' and 'forge brand identities' - which in idra's case backfired when he was too vitriolic for even his 'bad boy' box. Seeing Incontrol that choked up about his best friend being gkicked while still having to toe the party line is fucking sad man. 'trying to work on saying it a little less candidly'. I know I'll catch flak with people saying 'its a business yadda yadda yadda' but I think money poisons everything and I for one find it very sad indeed watching a man having to choose between saying what he thinks and doing what he's told. What is this fascination with saying that "EG molded Idra into what he is"? You're really mad at the situation and just trying target someone/some entity to vent your rage? There is absolutely zero evidence to support your wild statement. And even more importantly, everyone knows that Idra has always been like this, since way before EG. LoL comeon man. Naa man im not saying idra wasn't like that to begin with, im saying the all the corporate involvement, whilst bringing bigger tournaments etc etc has a bad side - which in my opinion is the compartmentalising of people, teams and scenes. I agree idra has always been quick get angry and say exactly what he thinks in a way that ranges from blunt to insulting - and I think its sad that because of Monster energy drink and Doritos people can't be who they are. Nobody tried to change Idra, they formed an outward identity for him, the 'bad-boy' rage quiter and all that. Its ironic that while normally people get punished for something that doesn't fit the mold (Miley Cyrus sex tape or whatever), in Idras case he got dropped for being a concentrated version of his mold, which doesn't fly in the sterile and brittle world of corporate endorsements.
Pretty sure insulting and immature angry kid who refuses to see his own faults doesn't fit into any world, corporate or not.
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About fucking time really.
I realise it's really tough for everyone involved and I wish the best for EG and Greg. But i 100% support the decision from EG and I really think it's the right decision.
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Can't say I'm surprised:
He constantly mentions how he hates the game by saying stuff like "stupid piece of shit game," "fucking game" and so forth. He keeps swearing at people that works at Blizzard while he is streaming. He calls anyone who beats him "a fucking idiot" and so on. He doesn't even seem to be able to play tournaments anymore since he quits games while there is still a chance of him winning.
If nothing else he prolly should take a few weeks break from SC2. He seriously doesn't seem very happy with his situation as a pro-gamer.
At the same time it will be strange seeing IdrA on another team and no longer a part of EG.
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On May 10 2013 17:07 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 16:56 Blargh wrote:On May 10 2013 16:42 Infernal_dream wrote:On May 10 2013 16:40 Blargh wrote:On May 10 2013 16:26 SCST wrote:On May 10 2013 16:21 matt93 wrote:On May 10 2013 16:15 SCST wrote:
The more that Idra's followers post in this thread with super-rage, lashing out at the community and EG, the more I feel like there's this small circus of people that has followed Idra around for years . . . people who are "slightly off" in some way or another, that become obsessive and end up die-hard Idra fanatics.
Some of these posts are just hilariously strange. The irony is this post right here is more offensive to the community than the post idra got released for :\ calling people "slightly off" for speaking their mind about a key icon in starcraft being removed from the team they helped make iconic for the same reason that icon was made an icon. The reason I'm calling them "slightly off" isn't because they are simply speaking their mind. Their logic and reasoning for justifying Idra's behavior and attacking EG is so completely whacked that it's impossible to think of them as "normal" posters. Every time some random poster says "dur it's true Idra was right! All of you are fucks! durrr" it's hard not to start stereotyping. I have yet to see a rational argument for either defending Idra or attacking EG. While I don't think anyone would actually say that what Idra said was exactly "smart", there was a bit of truth to his post. He also did not seem entirely serious about it, but I suppose we will never know that... Idra has always valued "skill" in Starcraft. Many people don't actually care for skill (the viewers) and just want to see something EXCITING. Idra losing in a match and not saying "gg" is what people like to see. People like to dislike him, something which is actually pretty natural. People love to hate -someone-. Others actually love him because of that. Actually, this thread (and its # of pages) is pretty much proof of what Idra was saying (in his first post). People care about this kind of shit. People like uber gosu players like Innovation and Flash as well, but there's so much more money in Idra than Innovation. Flash, well, he will always have tons of fans and shit. I wonder how many viewers Innovation would get if he streamed.... Since when has idra valued skill? Anytime he lost it was always to some "no skill noob cheese rush" or because whatever unit was imbalanced at the time. He never actually lost and said "well I fucked this up" or "I could've done this better." It was always the games fault. Any attack before 20 minutes was considered a cheese by him and therefore not the real game. If he valued skill he would better himself, not blame others for beating him. You know very little about Idra then. He has always cared about skill and always thought that skill should have complete correlation with winning. There's a reason why you don't ever see him cheese very seriously. The game IS at fault, but he is as well, so he never even bothered to give a shit. SC2 is far from perfect. It ain't no Chess. I think Innovation (and actually quite a few other players) were way more skilled than Sniper was, but Sniper won a GSL. Will we ever see Sniper win anything ever again? I doubt it... Anyway, slightly off-topic, but relevant enough. Cheese is part of the game. And the game doesn't have to be perfect for you to play it or to not blame the game every time you lose. Now I agree I probably worded it a little badly because this wasn't always the case. Mostly on him laddering though you never ever saw him explaining things he could do better to have won a game. No the game isn't perfect, neither was BW, and this game never will be. However people still better themselves and they find ways to counter builds. There is no perfect build for any race. There is nothing that is unstoppable. So the game is not at fault. Him losing to cheese is his own fault. Him losing to "stupid imba" units is his own fault. There's plenty of other streams out there that lose then look at the replay to find things they could've done better. He just simply blames the game and doesn't find a way to stop that particular build. His builds have been getting hard countered for a while. I think he seems to believe there's only one way to play sc2 and that's simply not true. Not to take away from him, he's a good player. But until he stops blaming the game he will never win again. There's a reason you see cheese even in GSL, because it works, because it's part of the game. If you don't take the time to either practice against that or come up with a build against it and just lose over and over then expeect it to be used against you. You're exploitable at that point in time. Edit: When he commentated when he streamed was always insightful and useful but more than likely he still down talked the opposing player. If it's someone he's beaten before he'd comment immediately. If the person did something he didn't agree with he'd call it out immediately both verbally and in game. It looks bad when you do that then continue to lose even though the person made stupid decisions. One track minds aren't going to win at this game.
Yes! Which is why he says he hates the game! He dislikes the game for what it is, which is a game that involves risks and cheese. The game is definitely at fault when a player can win by chance. Nothing is unstoppable (unless it's truly totally OP) but that doesn't make it good. If you're playing Poker and you can only receive cards 2-Jack while your opponent/s can receive 2-Ace, you are at a disadvantage. You can still win, but it's clearly a fault in the game. [BAD ANALOGY]. I believe he stopped caring about winning quite a while ago (look at recent matches, especially). Now, not everything is imbalanced, but right now, hellbats sure as hell are! But quick, let's not discuss balance! That's dangerous.
He plays the part of the game that he likes, and disregards any part he doesn't like. The only reason he plays SC2 is probably because he invested so much of his life into SC:BW and SC2.
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On May 10 2013 17:20 majava wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 17:16 Autotroph wrote:On May 10 2013 17:06 SCST wrote:On May 10 2013 17:02 Autotroph wrote:
Hate seeing people taking falls for voicing their opinion. Fucking money man. Suits try and sterilise all this and mold people into 'personalities' and 'forge brand identities' - which in idra's case backfired when he was too vitriolic for even his 'bad boy' box. Seeing Incontrol that choked up about his best friend being gkicked while still having to toe the party line is fucking sad man. 'trying to work on saying it a little less candidly'. I know I'll catch flak with people saying 'its a business yadda yadda yadda' but I think money poisons everything and I for one find it very sad indeed watching a man having to choose between saying what he thinks and doing what he's told. What is this fascination with saying that "EG molded Idra into what he is"? You're really mad at the situation and just trying target someone/some entity to vent your rage? There is absolutely zero evidence to support your wild statement. And even more importantly, everyone knows that Idra has always been like this, since way before EG. LoL comeon man. Naa man im not saying idra wasn't like that to begin with, im saying the all the corporate involvement, whilst bringing bigger tournaments etc etc has a bad side - which in my opinion is the compartmentalising of people, teams and scenes. I agree idra has always been quick get angry and say exactly what he thinks in a way that ranges from blunt to insulting - and I think its sad that because of Monster energy drink and Doritos people can't be who they are. Nobody tried to change Idra, they formed an outward identity for him, the 'bad-boy' rage quiter and all that. Its ironic that while normally people get punished for something that doesn't fit the mold (Miley Cyrus sex tape or whatever), in Idras case he got dropped for being a concentrated version of his mold, which doesn't fly in the sterile and brittle world of corporate endorsements. Pretty sure insulting and immature angry kid who refuses to see his own faults doesn't fit into any world, corporate or not.
Lol yeah fair point. Would have been nicer for him to realise it than get kicked cos of it I suppose...
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On May 10 2013 17:16 Autotroph wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 17:06 SCST wrote:On May 10 2013 17:02 Autotroph wrote:
Hate seeing people taking falls for voicing their opinion. Fucking money man. Suits try and sterilise all this and mold people into 'personalities' and 'forge brand identities' - which in idra's case backfired when he was too vitriolic for even his 'bad boy' box. Seeing Incontrol that choked up about his best friend being gkicked while still having to toe the party line is fucking sad man. 'trying to work on saying it a little less candidly'. I know I'll catch flak with people saying 'its a business yadda yadda yadda' but I think money poisons everything and I for one find it very sad indeed watching a man having to choose between saying what he thinks and doing what he's told. What is this fascination with saying that "EG molded Idra into what he is"? You're really mad at the situation and just trying target someone/some entity to vent your rage? There is absolutely zero evidence to support your wild statement. And even more importantly, everyone knows that Idra has always been like this, since way before EG. LoL comeon man. Naa man im not saying idra wasn't like that to begin with, im saying the all the corporate involvement, whilst bringing bigger tournaments etc etc has a bad side - which in my opinion is the compartmentalising of people, teams and scenes. I agree idra has always been quick get angry and say exactly what he thinks in a way that ranges from blunt to insulting - and I think its sad that because of Monster energy drink and Doritos people can't be who they are. Nobody tried to change Idra, they formed an outward identity for him, the 'bad-boy' rage quiter and all that. Its ironic that while normally people get punished for something that doesn't fit the mold (Miley Cyrus sex tape or whatever), in Idras case he got dropped for being a concentrated version of his mold, which doesn't fly in the sterile and brittle world of corporate endorsements.
Ahh I understand what you're saying now. You're saying that money/cheap entertainment basically held Idra captive to his behavior, as it constantly spurred him to do more outrageous things in order to profit from the attention? I do agree at some level with you, but I also think that Idra had a healthy-balance of his "rage-personae" vs. "what is acceptable" to the community & sponsors. He somehow got derailed recently and just started trash-talking his fans, and tipped the scale from what is "barely manageable" to the community to what is "completely unacceptable" to the community. EG gets paid because the community invests in them. In the end, biting the hand that feeds you was a foolish thing for Greg to do.
And I don't mean this as a cheap-shot, but being a great Starcraft player you'd think Idra would understand that it was an obvious tactical error to make that statement. It's almost like he did this on purpose - subconsciously wanting to get away from Starcraft?
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This is what happens when you take things for granted
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he has became poison to sponsors. Just imagine what happens if a Public relations agent of one of the sponsors of EG accidentally reads Idras last post here.
No company wants to sponsor someone with this reputation, and Idra overdid it.
He was basically asking for getting kicked for the last few month, and after the last excess, Eg had no other choice left.
I dont think EG is happy to be forced to having done this, but sponsors are important in sports business.
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He was the bad guy in the SC2 scene, now there is nobody in EG that interests me to watch, perhaps how much Suppy but I dunno.
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Well this comes for everyone who cant get out of denial. Acceptance is forced when it doesn't come naturally.
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Random comment nobody will read because of the speed of this thread.
Goodbye, Idra.
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On May 10 2013 17:19 FoxerGames wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 17:13 Leach wrote:On May 10 2013 17:10 SCST wrote:On May 10 2013 17:09 Leach wrote:yeah he's gonna retire  Source? right now he's so far behind the top foreigners..... and knowing greg's personality there's just no way he starts over again and fights his way back to the top.... In his eyes he deserves to be the best just because he's dedicated so much time to the game. But then again, I'd be pleasantly surprised if he did..... That's your source? By knowing his personality?
I'm laughing my ass off at this right now . . . I think I'm going to explode.
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Isn't this the best for him as well now that he doesn't have to play the game he hates with passion? The thought of a person getting paid for playing the game he shits on all the time and being an asshole doesn't sit right with me especially it's the game I really love.
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where and what happend? as a eu fan i've noticed nothing :D
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The decision was a bit harsh in terms of an actual business decision. However, no one knows if he was given prior warnings or simply been told prior what the companies policy is and x would happen if it was broken. EG isn't just a team, it's a business and brand that holds their image in high esteem like any other company. Idra should of realized he's not a child anymore playing a video game, but, rather a grown man representing a company.
In short, tact is king.
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Idra being Idra I can't see him being willing to take a salary cut to keep playing a game he's not very enthusiastic about and what non-Korean team can possibly match what EG was paying him?
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Out of all the things Idra has said in the past, it's hard to not laugh at "that" being his undoing. The truth doesn't always sound pleasing to the ears and it doesn't always lead to good results, which is why so many are dishonest and only spew bs. Lesson learned here is do w/e you want, but simply don't make it appear that your employer condones it and shares the same sentiment.
So basically it's cool to BM everyone (even teammates), but don't implicate paycheck issuers. Like that's the first time he's said anything disparaging about his fans... If someone gives you shit, you probably want to "own" them back. If he didn't get fired for that post, he would have done so. You can't really read into "o, he is not thankful for any of his fans or has no respect for any of them." How many viewers do you think Idra would have lost over those comments if EG didn't say anything/do anything about it? Probably 0. He probably would have even gained viewers, just to see what he will do next, only validating what he said.
It's unfortunate he's not playing Terran in HotS, considering the success of Terrans in BW that were far worse than him. For people saying Idra is the most popular player, well who is also viewed as the most BM player. If you don't view him as a good player, then why does everyone like him? Personality? Well, he showed it and now it's a bad thing because maybe it's directed towards you? Maybe stop encouraging BM/rewarding it, then. Anything for entertainment that's not at your expense.
If a player with a BM persona is going to eventually get fired for it, it's disappointing when it's pretty G rated/mild in comparison to some other stuff. But, I guess, it was simply directed towards people that are off limits. Not much of a lesson to be learned here or a drastic change in personality required.
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On May 10 2013 17:22 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 17:16 Autotroph wrote:On May 10 2013 17:06 SCST wrote:On May 10 2013 17:02 Autotroph wrote:
Hate seeing people taking falls for voicing their opinion. Fucking money man. Suits try and sterilise all this and mold people into 'personalities' and 'forge brand identities' - which in idra's case backfired when he was too vitriolic for even his 'bad boy' box. Seeing Incontrol that choked up about his best friend being gkicked while still having to toe the party line is fucking sad man. 'trying to work on saying it a little less candidly'. I know I'll catch flak with people saying 'its a business yadda yadda yadda' but I think money poisons everything and I for one find it very sad indeed watching a man having to choose between saying what he thinks and doing what he's told. What is this fascination with saying that "EG molded Idra into what he is"? You're really mad at the situation and just trying target someone/some entity to vent your rage? There is absolutely zero evidence to support your wild statement. And even more importantly, everyone knows that Idra has always been like this, since way before EG. LoL comeon man. Naa man im not saying idra wasn't like that to begin with, im saying the all the corporate involvement, whilst bringing bigger tournaments etc etc has a bad side - which in my opinion is the compartmentalising of people, teams and scenes. I agree idra has always been quick get angry and say exactly what he thinks in a way that ranges from blunt to insulting - and I think its sad that because of Monster energy drink and Doritos people can't be who they are. Nobody tried to change Idra, they formed an outward identity for him, the 'bad-boy' rage quiter and all that. Its ironic that while normally people get punished for something that doesn't fit the mold (Miley Cyrus sex tape or whatever), in Idras case he got dropped for being a concentrated version of his mold, which doesn't fly in the sterile and brittle world of corporate endorsements. Ahh I understand what you're saying now. You're saying that money/cheap entertainment basically held Idra captive to his behavior, as it constantly spurred him to do more outrageous things in order to profit from the attention? I do agree at some level with you, but I also think that Idra had a healthy-balance of his "rage-personae" vs. "what is acceptable" to the community / sponsors. He somehow got derailed recently and just started trash-talking his fans, and tipped the scale to what is "completely unacceptable" to the community. EG gets paid because the community invests in them. In the end, biting the hand that feeds you was a foolish thing for Greg to do.
IdrA's always been this way. Even when he played BroodWar, he said the game was imbalanced and rage-quit games he could've won. This really has nothing to do when him playing up a certain persona.
I'm also not saying I don't like IdrA. I love IdrA, but if you're going to be a fan of IdrA, you have to accept him the way he is.
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In other news, the eg curse was lifted today as Suppy won WCS AM.
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On May 10 2013 16:56 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 16:51 Osmoses wrote:
I think Idra was completely on the mark, this is an entertainment industry, and I would not have spent a second watching his (or Destiny's) stream if they weren't interesting people. Same deal with LoL, which is the reason Dyrus' is one of the most popular streams. Yes, calling your community/fans "a bunch of fucks" and sheep is a bulls-eye! Lol I'm not sure if you're trying to justify Idra's behavior and/or recent statement or you're just commenting on the state of the e-sports scene in general. Either way, Idra's behavior is obviously not good for the community and we are finally stamping it out. First Destiny, now Idra. It's a big boy industry now. Big money is coming the way of e-sports. No more time for this kind of cheap-bottom-feeder entertainment that attracts only a small group of fanatics and a small group of trolls. The casual viewer is clearly tired of this crap, if this thread is any indication.
I am absolutely not an Idra fan, and also don't hate him or something, I am fairly neutral. However the stream numbers don't show that the viewers are tired if 'this crap'. Players with a personality they show on their stream have far more viewers than those who don't. The casual viewer wants entertainment, and doesn't really care if what they view is the best of the best, or simply good players. And I also don't think that is bad.
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EPT
