|
On May 08 2013 01:46 graNite wrote:
the sad thing is that they make money by holding monster cans in the camera, not by playing well.
companies jsut want to get exposure, thats why they hire "teams" like this one because they get a lot of attention, not because they play well.
and then the sponsors say that they support esports :D
I'd say: "welcome to real life"..
but i'll be less of an asshole and say.. that's how marketing operates.
|
On May 08 2013 01:11 Diddywhop wrote:
You can start this discussion based on one fact. Love em' or hate em', team EG has the right idea when it comes to the atmosphere of a professional team.
There is a difference between professionalism and commercialism, and it's the latter that applies here. I like EG, I like most their players and representatives. If I think that they have the best model to produce the best players is not only debatable but also, in fact, something I really doubt and disagree upon.
EG has found a really good place for what they want to be for now and who knows, maybe, in the future they will change.
|
On May 08 2013 01:35 Dingodile wrote:
Yeah, EG prefers player with big personality and big fanbase :D
From this perspective, they made a big mistake: Not able to renew the contract with Grubby (he was there from 2008 - march2011).
The only way I can explain this slip-up is by Grubby having demands that were reasonable during the duration of the contract but unreasonable at the point of signing the contract.
If Grubby promises, he will deliver (as he did), but EG can't build a business on promises.
|
I don't mean any offense but i think this is something you should discuss in your blog rather than in a TL thread.
As is, Starcraft 2 has a following that surprises me to this day.
This is a simple idea, but you don't need an entire team to be marketable and to benefit the rise & growth of the scene.
|
Looking at the money that KeSPA's SKT1 had available to pay PartinG pay 70k, my first thought was honestly "Wow, and EG can afford six figure salaries for some of their players."
EG is the only foreign team that has made the same kind of bank as KeSPA teams because they market better. Say whatever you want about them being corporate slaves or shamelessly promoting Monster or Razer or whatever, but I think that's what we need to see more of for esports to take off.
I'm not as keen on the idea of Starcraft on TV; this is an innovative form of entertainment and there's no reason to go from a format that lets you watch from wherever and whenever you want to having it at set times in locations where a set has to be established.
All of my limited information on the topics comes from here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/29/technology/personaltech/video-gaming-on-the-pro-tour-for-glory-but-little-gold.html?_r=0
On May 08 2013 01:19 DiMano wrote:
I do not like teams that buy the best players from other teams to artificially become the best. EG has killed TSL and I hate them for this so much.
Polt leaving killed TSL, EG just cannibalized the corpse.
|
On May 08 2013 01:46 graNite wrote:
the sad thing is that they make money by holding monster cans in the camera, not by playing well.
companies jsut want to get exposure, thats why they hire "teams" like this one because they get a lot of attention, not because they play well.
and then the sponsors say that they support esports :D
At my law firm, we get paid more money the worst the case goes for our client(in general, and its not our fault, all cases are not winners). The more messed up, complicated or difficult the case, the more money we make. Also, we make a ton off of simple things, like sending letters on behalf of our client.
In business, there is not direct relation between effort, success and the amount of money that business makes. Professional sports teams can lose for the year and still make a lot of money.
|
On May 08 2013 02:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 01:46 graNite wrote:
the sad thing is that they make money by holding monster cans in the camera, not by playing well.
companies jsut want to get exposure, thats why they hire "teams" like this one because they get a lot of attention, not because they play well.
and then the sponsors say that they support esports :D At my law firm, we get paid more money the worst the case goes for our client(in general, and its not our fault, all cases are not winners). The more messed up, complicated or difficult the case, the more money we make. Also, we make a ton off of simple things, like sending letters on behalf of our client. In business, there is not direct relation between effort, success and the amount of money that business makes. Professional sports teams can lose for the year and still make a lot of money.
i was talking as an esports fan; i want to watch the best players playing incredibly good games.
eg just buys players when they are at their highest popularity to higher their own even more.
|
On May 08 2013 02:15 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 02:06 Plansix wrote:On May 08 2013 01:46 graNite wrote:
the sad thing is that they make money by holding monster cans in the camera, not by playing well.
companies jsut want to get exposure, thats why they hire "teams" like this one because they get a lot of attention, not because they play well.
and then the sponsors say that they support esports :D At my law firm, we get paid more money the worst the case goes for our client(in general, and its not our fault, all cases are not winners). The more messed up, complicated or difficult the case, the more money we make. Also, we make a ton off of simple things, like sending letters on behalf of our client. In business, there is not direct relation between effort, success and the amount of money that business makes. Professional sports teams can lose for the year and still make a lot of money. i was talking as an esports fan; i want to watch the best players playing incredibly good games. eg just buys players when they are at their highest popularity to higher their own even more.
Exactly. But, you play Starcraft 2, right? I'm the same way.
EG is opening themselves up for appeal to a larger audience from their personalities. There is no doubt that as players most of us want to see the best players and the best games. But, what do you think would appeal more to that audience who has never seen a pro SC2 match?
|
For a game to be successful as an esport, we need there to be more viewers than players. Viewers who arent players want something to relate to when it comes to watching a player, be it their history in the game or their personality. It therefor makes a lot more sense to recruit popular players, because the only time they won't be worth anything for your team is when there arent any viewers; and then you might as well not have a team at all.
|
On May 08 2013 02:15 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 02:06 Plansix wrote:On May 08 2013 01:46 graNite wrote:
the sad thing is that they make money by holding monster cans in the camera, not by playing well.
companies jsut want to get exposure, thats why they hire "teams" like this one because they get a lot of attention, not because they play well.
and then the sponsors say that they support esports :D At my law firm, we get paid more money the worst the case goes for our client(in general, and its not our fault, all cases are not winners). The more messed up, complicated or difficult the case, the more money we make. Also, we make a ton off of simple things, like sending letters on behalf of our client. In business, there is not direct relation between effort, success and the amount of money that business makes. Professional sports teams can lose for the year and still make a lot of money. i was talking as an esports fan; i want to watch the best players playing incredibly good games. eg just buys players when they are at their highest popularity to higher their own even more.
But EG has highly skilled players Korean players that are making a hard fought comeback in Proleague. Demuslim is one of the best players in the AM region right now and just qualified for WSC challenger. Jaedong took 4th at Dreamhack a few weeks ago. HUK made it to the round of 16 at Dreamhack and got knocked out by GuMiho, like almost every other non-Korean at Dreamhack.
I am not really seeing the argument that their players do not put up results compared to other AM or foreign teams, especially recently. And pointing Incontrol isn't a good argument, either. The team and Incontrol have said a number of times that he has more of a PR roll and just keeps his foot in the competitive scene.
|
There's nothing to discuss, except for the remarkable ability of how EG is able to influence the OP into doing their PR work for them.
|
The only time I watch EG is proleague or the occasional Jaedong or Suppy stream. Other than that, I've totally divested myself from their brand in every way. I don't approve of Idra's behaviour. I don't approve of Incontrol's behaviour. I don't approve of their business ideology. I don't approve of them whining at blizzard for not inviting ANOTHER one of their players, demuslim, when EG already got the more invites than most teams. I don't approve of how they take the best players in the scene and run them into the ground.
Is it the "dirty cash" syndrome, where the money makes someone stop working hard? Is it simply the lack of proper training - is coach park and the korea house the answer? Is there a direction change in the future with all the players leaving the Arizona house for cali? Idra's mentality poisoned mine for over a year, Will he ever grow up?
I don't know, but I've made a conscious decision not to support them as little as possible. I consciously avoid buying products from their sponsors, avoid watching their streams, even avoid big tournaments if their players are playing and the match isn't a "must watch" for me. Love them or hate them, do what you need to do. I've come to hate them so I try not to let them monetize me as a "fan".
|
On May 08 2013 02:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 02:15 graNite wrote:On May 08 2013 02:06 Plansix wrote:On May 08 2013 01:46 graNite wrote:
the sad thing is that they make money by holding monster cans in the camera, not by playing well.
companies jsut want to get exposure, thats why they hire "teams" like this one because they get a lot of attention, not because they play well.
and then the sponsors say that they support esports :D At my law firm, we get paid more money the worst the case goes for our client(in general, and its not our fault, all cases are not winners). The more messed up, complicated or difficult the case, the more money we make. Also, we make a ton off of simple things, like sending letters on behalf of our client. In business, there is not direct relation between effort, success and the amount of money that business makes. Professional sports teams can lose for the year and still make a lot of money. i was talking as an esports fan; i want to watch the best players playing incredibly good games. eg just buys players when they are at their highest popularity to higher their own even more. But EG has highly skilled players Korean players that are making a hard fought comeback in Proleague. Demuslim is one of the best players in the AM region right now and just qualified for WSC challenger. Jaedong took 4th at Dreamhack a few weeks ago. HUK made it to the round of 16 at Dreamhack and got knocked out by GuMiho, like almost every other non-Korean at Dreamhack. I am not really seeing the argument that their players do not put up results compared to other AM or foreign teams, especially recently. And pointing Incontrol isn't a good argument, either. The team and Incontrol have said a number of times that he has more of a PR roll and just keeps his foot in the competitive scene.
EG has signed some really top notch players, no doubt there. Have the players they signed developed further skillwise while being signed with EG? I would say no personally. This is probably the main reason that people have problems with EG; they sign the already established players and do not seem to develop any talent themselves or develop the talent the already possess.
Personally for me I am pretty neutral on EG, I only watch gsl in sc2 and they do not have much to do with that :p
|
I don't really see the point. Like you just name the obvious (e.g. why eg is so successful, how you can't attract people outside the game just by skillful play etc.). I mean it's a nice write up of where esports is and why it's good that we have a team like eg, but I don't really see anything to discuss.
Personally I couldn't care less about persoanlity but about skill in the game itself so I don't care much for most of egs players.
|
On May 08 2013 02:40 Swift118 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 02:33 Plansix wrote:On May 08 2013 02:15 graNite wrote:On May 08 2013 02:06 Plansix wrote:On May 08 2013 01:46 graNite wrote:
the sad thing is that they make money by holding monster cans in the camera, not by playing well.
companies jsut want to get exposure, thats why they hire "teams" like this one because they get a lot of attention, not because they play well.
and then the sponsors say that they support esports :D At my law firm, we get paid more money the worst the case goes for our client(in general, and its not our fault, all cases are not winners). The more messed up, complicated or difficult the case, the more money we make. Also, we make a ton off of simple things, like sending letters on behalf of our client. In business, there is not direct relation between effort, success and the amount of money that business makes. Professional sports teams can lose for the year and still make a lot of money. i was talking as an esports fan; i want to watch the best players playing incredibly good games. eg just buys players when they are at their highest popularity to higher their own even more. But EG has highly skilled players Korean players that are making a hard fought comeback in Proleague. Demuslim is one of the best players in the AM region right now and just qualified for WSC challenger. Jaedong took 4th at Dreamhack a few weeks ago. HUK made it to the round of 16 at Dreamhack and got knocked out by GuMiho, like almost every other non-Korean at Dreamhack. I am not really seeing the argument that their players do not put up results compared to other AM or foreign teams, especially recently. And pointing Incontrol isn't a good argument, either. The team and Incontrol have said a number of times that he has more of a PR roll and just keeps his foot in the competitive scene. EG has signed some really top notch players, no doubt there. Have the players they signed developed further skillwise while being signed with EG? I would say no personally. This is probably the main reason that people have problems with EG; they sign the already established players and do not seem to develop any talent themselves or develop the talent the already possess. Personally for me I am pretty neutral on EG, I only watch gsl in sc2 and they do not have much to do with that :p
That is a really subjective argument. I could make the same for TL and its players. Then we could go back and forth for hours on who improved more and if the team was responsible for that improvement or it was just the player. At the end of the argument, neither of us would have proven anything.
Alex Garfield did say he should have gotten a coach in the lair day from day one and regretted not doing so. Hiring Coach Park was a huge step forward to helping their players. And Coach Park doesn't come cheap. If a team doesn't care about developing talent, they don't hire Coach Park.
|
i think theyre not only about personalities, what about Alive, Jeadong, JYP, Oz, Revival, Stephano, Thorzain? They are really good players.
And i still believe Idra is playing very well and i expect him to do really good in tournaments in the future. Just check WCS wednesday and you will see. I think he's still at the top.
|
On May 08 2013 01:11 Diddywhop wrote:
team EG has the right idea when it comes to the atmosphere of a professional team.
Your second sentence made me laugh out loud. How the heck am I going to even bother reading your wall of text let alone take you seriously when I cannot even get through the first paragraph?
|
EG is in the SC2 scene what Bayern is in the Bundesliga which is the reason why I hate them but you can't deny that their business model is the currently most successful one out there and that without a team like that we wouldn't be where we're at now.
|
Just a quick bit for those who don't understand the discussion. I
I left it sort of open ended to have a discussion on a wider basis. Some people seemed to of gotten it right on, but others did not. I should of made it a bit more clear, but it would of defied response I was looking for from people.
Thanks for those who read it through and gave me replies!
Appreciate it.
|
On May 08 2013 02:40 Swift118 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 02:33 Plansix wrote:On May 08 2013 02:15 graNite wrote:On May 08 2013 02:06 Plansix wrote:On May 08 2013 01:46 graNite wrote:
the sad thing is that they make money by holding monster cans in the camera, not by playing well.
companies jsut want to get exposure, thats why they hire "teams" like this one because they get a lot of attention, not because they play well.
and then the sponsors say that they support esports :D At my law firm, we get paid more money the worst the case goes for our client(in general, and its not our fault, all cases are not winners). The more messed up, complicated or difficult the case, the more money we make. Also, we make a ton off of simple things, like sending letters on behalf of our client. In business, there is not direct relation between effort, success and the amount of money that business makes. Professional sports teams can lose for the year and still make a lot of money. i was talking as an esports fan; i want to watch the best players playing incredibly good games. eg just buys players when they are at their highest popularity to higher their own even more. But EG has highly skilled players Korean players that are making a hard fought comeback in Proleague. Demuslim is one of the best players in the AM region right now and just qualified for WSC challenger. Jaedong took 4th at Dreamhack a few weeks ago. HUK made it to the round of 16 at Dreamhack and got knocked out by GuMiho, like almost every other non-Korean at Dreamhack. I am not really seeing the argument that their players do not put up results compared to other AM or foreign teams, especially recently. And pointing Incontrol isn't a good argument, either. The team and Incontrol have said a number of times that he has more of a PR roll and just keeps his foot in the competitive scene. EG has signed some really top notch players, no doubt there. Have the players they signed developed further skillwise while being signed with EG? I would say no personally. This is probably the main reason that people have problems with EG; they sign the already established players and do not seem to develop any talent themselves or develop the talent the already possess. Personally for me I am pretty neutral on EG, I only watch gsl in sc2 and they do not have much to do with that :p
It's a weird generalization to say EG players have not developed skillwise. DeMuslim, Suppy, JYP, Jaedong, and Revival are all much better than they were prior to signing (Jaedong was signed before he really adjusted to SC2, so that may be moot). Alive and Oz were both picked up when they were stagnating as players, and are arguably seeing a resurgence in scene relevance.
Sure, there are a good number of players that didn't maintain scene dominance, but absolutely no team has every single player stay at their peak. The whole "EG Curse" thing was a fallacy back in 2012, but it's even more pointless in 2013.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
