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On April 26 2013 11:10 xNSwarm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 11:06 Rainling wrote:
From my testing, this can be done consistently. The scv doesn't have to move across the center of the refinery, it can just move from one side to an adjacent side and if the refinery is cancelled at the correct time, the scv will be on top of the empty geyser. perhaps the specific refinery that you were testing works better than most at this? If so, there is a chance that at least 1 of the maps in the map pool have a main where the refinery is equally consistent. That would be interesting.
I just tested it a bit more, and I think I was wrong. If the scv moves along the outside, you can't do the trick. If it moves through the geyser but not necessarily through the exact center of the geyser, you are able to cancel and have the scv remain on the geyser. This could be what you meant in the op, though.
Edit: Yeah you said "across the middle," I think that's what you meant originally. The general rule I found was that if the scv starts directly next to one of the geyser vents, the scv's path needs cross two vents or go between the two adjacent vents for the scv to remain on the geyser.
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On April 26 2013 11:21 LeeDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 10:52 da_head wrote:On April 26 2013 09:51 TheRabidDeer wrote:
9/10 SCV gas steal TvP inc
"So what you do is you take your 9th and 10th SCV across the map, and build a refinery. Then you cancel it. Then you 5 rax marine rush because all they can have are zealots" FFE? The terrans economy would be in shambles. Go nexus first, put down like 4 cannons at the front and thank them for the free win. reapers?
I know we are just theory crafting here, but you basically have to have 75 mins to put it down at like 13 supply, commit two scvs to it (meaning you will have two less scvs) and toss can just throw down a forge and either cannon you or nexus first. And there is an off-chance that they see you bring two scvs with their scout, not to mention that there is only a 1/3 chance of it working right away, meaning the probability of it working twice is like ~11%.
I don't see how this could ever work, need to see someone try it, just sounds too ridiculous to ever kill a toss with.
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On April 26 2013 10:52 da_head wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 09:51 TheRabidDeer wrote:
9/10 SCV gas steal TvP inc
"So what you do is you take your 9th and 10th SCV across the map, and build a refinery. Then you cancel it. Then you 5 rax marine rush because all they can have are zealots" FFE? The terrans economy would be in shambles. Go nexus first, put down like 4 cannons at the front and thank them for the free win.
This is obviously all hypothethical since it sounds like it's a pretty impractical trick to pull off, let alone twice, but I'm pretty sure sending an SCV on 9 or 10 wouldn't get to your base until around when you would put down your gas anyway. And even then, if you see a terran take one of your gasses or even enter your base that early, you can just take the other one immediately and play standard and win off the HUGE delay the terran takes by delaying his build by 150 minerals+ mining time from 9th and 10th scv. Same reason you don't see double gas steals in PvP, since it's impractical and easy to deflect.
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Doing so is rather redundant, but you can put multiple scvs on a single vespene geyser. If you ever wanted to have a party in a refinery or something.
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On April 26 2013 11:43 Darthsanta13 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 10:52 da_head wrote:On April 26 2013 09:51 TheRabidDeer wrote:
9/10 SCV gas steal TvP inc
"So what you do is you take your 9th and 10th SCV across the map, and build a refinery. Then you cancel it. Then you 5 rax marine rush because all they can have are zealots" FFE? The terrans economy would be in shambles. Go nexus first, put down like 4 cannons at the front and thank them for the free win. This is obviously all hypothethical since it sounds like it's a pretty impractical trick to pull off, let alone twice, but I'm pretty sure sending an SCV on 9 or 10 wouldn't get to your base until around when you would put down your gas anyway. And even then, if you see a terran take one of your gasses or even enter your base that early, you can just take the other one immediately and play standard and win off the HUGE delay the terran takes by delaying his build by 150 minerals+ mining time from 9th and 10th scv. Same reason you don't see double gas steals in PvP, since it's impractical and easy to deflect.
You also fully sacrifice 150 minerals in PvP and dont have marines.
I made the original post in jest, but it honestly could work in some scenarios. 5 rax rine is a ridiculous number of units to hold off, especially when you have no sentries to FF or stalkers to kite.
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On April 26 2013 10:00 Trozz wrote:
Incredible find.
Say bye to Tails' dt drop.
Ill have to test this.
I haven't seen you post in the SC2 section before, it's always fun to see your posts :D
I assume tail's dt drop is a gas sensitive build that can't be done if your gas gets stolen?
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Blizzard should leave this bug into the game, maybe it will bring some new stuff.
Even saving one scv from ling with this technique would make my day
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On April 26 2013 12:35 j4vz wrote:
Blizzard should leave this bug into the game, maybe it will bring some new stuff.
Even saving one scv from ling with this technique would make my day
I agree, then we can have T just block every gas on the map to make sure that P can't ever take gas!
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LOL this is cool. a new opening strategy for terran ;D
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On April 26 2013 12:48 Valeranth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 12:35 j4vz wrote:
Blizzard should leave this bug into the game, maybe it will bring some new stuff.
Even saving one scv from ling with this technique would make my day I agree, then we can have T just block every gas on the map to make sure that P can't ever take gas!
P can always make cannons to stop this, but this might still be too strong in tvp. If it's not patched soon we might learn how it impacts the game. If it doesn't lead to some broken strategy it would be a good idea to leave it in the game imo.
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On April 26 2013 11:46 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 11:43 Darthsanta13 wrote:On April 26 2013 10:52 da_head wrote:On April 26 2013 09:51 TheRabidDeer wrote:
9/10 SCV gas steal TvP inc
"So what you do is you take your 9th and 10th SCV across the map, and build a refinery. Then you cancel it. Then you 5 rax marine rush because all they can have are zealots" FFE? The terrans economy would be in shambles. Go nexus first, put down like 4 cannons at the front and thank them for the free win. This is obviously all hypothethical since it sounds like it's a pretty impractical trick to pull off, let alone twice, but I'm pretty sure sending an SCV on 9 or 10 wouldn't get to your base until around when you would put down your gas anyway. And even then, if you see a terran take one of your gasses or even enter your base that early, you can just take the other one immediately and play standard and win off the HUGE delay the terran takes by delaying his build by 150 minerals+ mining time from 9th and 10th scv. Same reason you don't see double gas steals in PvP, since it's impractical and easy to deflect. You also fully sacrifice 150 minerals in PvP and dont have marines. I made the original post in jest, but it honestly could work in some scenarios. 5 rax rine is a ridiculous number of units to hold off, especially when you have no sentries to FF or stalkers to kite.
I was going to say that it's dumb and you'll never get anywhere because protoss can kill you. Then I realized that if you get both refinery cancels down, protoss literally can't build a single ranged unit unless they expo, build a forge+cannon, or long distance gas mine(very, very inefficient, even for only 50 gas). Then it comes down to whether or not you can survive waves of zealots off 2-4 gates with a significantly worse economy. Forge route means they can't really be offensive, expoing means defending a bunker rush, and attacking into a bunkered ramp with pure zealot is pretty much suicide no matter the number of zealots if they're ready with scv's.
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Thank god zerg has queens.
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On April 26 2013 13:06 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 11:46 TheRabidDeer wrote:On April 26 2013 11:43 Darthsanta13 wrote:On April 26 2013 10:52 da_head wrote:On April 26 2013 09:51 TheRabidDeer wrote:
9/10 SCV gas steal TvP inc
"So what you do is you take your 9th and 10th SCV across the map, and build a refinery. Then you cancel it. Then you 5 rax marine rush because all they can have are zealots" FFE? The terrans economy would be in shambles. Go nexus first, put down like 4 cannons at the front and thank them for the free win. This is obviously all hypothethical since it sounds like it's a pretty impractical trick to pull off, let alone twice, but I'm pretty sure sending an SCV on 9 or 10 wouldn't get to your base until around when you would put down your gas anyway. And even then, if you see a terran take one of your gasses or even enter your base that early, you can just take the other one immediately and play standard and win off the HUGE delay the terran takes by delaying his build by 150 minerals+ mining time from 9th and 10th scv. Same reason you don't see double gas steals in PvP, since it's impractical and easy to deflect. You also fully sacrifice 150 minerals in PvP and dont have marines. I made the original post in jest, but it honestly could work in some scenarios. 5 rax rine is a ridiculous number of units to hold off, especially when you have no sentries to FF or stalkers to kite. I was going to say that it's dumb and you'll never get anywhere because protoss can kill you. Then I realized that if you get both refinery cancels down, protoss literally can't build a single ranged unit unless they expo, build a forge+cannon, or long distance gas mine(very, very inefficient, even for only 50 gas). Then it comes down to whether or not you can survive waves of zealots off 2-4 gates with a significantly worse economy. Forge route means they can't really be offensive, expoing means defending a bunker rush, and attacking into a bunkered ramp with pure zealot is pretty much suicide no matter the number of zealots if they're ready with scv's.
And countering with some kind of zealot pressure doesnt work because terran can repair their wall endlessly against zealots. I didnt even think about a simple bunker rush followup though.
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I actually think going reapers could be more effective than 5 rax marine. If you go 5 rax marine, they can cannon up the front and place a single cannon near the mineral line to kill off the SCVs, allowing the Protoss to tech up. The Protoss is fucked.
On the other hand, if you rush reapers, you could probably make it in time to hit his mineral line, kill probes, and most importantly, deny any cannons near the mineral line. As long as you kill off any pylons/cannons near the mineral line, you have the toss permanently on minerals only.
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I have done some basic testing against the ai, and this is what I've got.
-constant scv production to 11.
-send out first scv at 40 seconds, second scv at 50 seconds.
-depot on 10
-both gas at 1:40 (amount of times you have to cancel determines when your barracks goes down(18 mins per cancel), anywhere from 1:50 to 2:10)
-finish wall quickly after if you suspect the threat of in base proxy gates.
-take advantage of gasless opponent.
again, just a rough outline.
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Oh, the justice!! Protoss, be afraid!
Great find, really surprised no one encountered this till now, heh.
On April 26 2013 13:35 Entirety wrote:
I actually think going reapers could be more effective than 5 rax marine. If you go 5 rax marine, they can cannon up the front and place a single cannon near the mineral line to kill off the SCVs, allowing the Protoss to tech up. The Protoss is fucked.
On the other hand, if you rush reapers, you could probably make it in time to hit his mineral line, kill probes, and most importantly, deny any cannons near the mineral line. As long as you kill off any pylons/cannons near the mineral line, you have the toss permanently on minerals only.
Yeah, a reaper build would be pretty much invincible. One reaper can kill zealots and probes indefinitely!
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No need to worry Protoss. There is a simple solution. Just build the assimilator right over the SCV.
The bug gets the SCV stuck in some sort of special building hover mode which prevents collision with buildings. So, since the SCV doesn't collide with buildings, you can throw down a building on top of him anyways. In this case, a refinery/extractor/assimilator.
At best, this is a way to keep an SCV in an enemy base without being hit until the opponent gets a ranged unit. However, it can't block anything.
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On April 26 2013 13:50 RenSC2 wrote:
No need to worry Protoss. There is a simple solution. Just build the assimilator right over the SCV.
The bug gets the SCV stuck in some sort of special building hover mode which prevents collision with buildings. So, since the SCV doesn't collide with buildings, you can throw down a building on top of him anyways. In this case, a refinery/extractor/assimilator.
At best, this is a way to keep an SCV in an enemy base without being hit until the opponent gets a ranged unit. However, it can't block anything.
It does not block the ai, strangely enough, but it does block another opponent in a real game.
edit: to clarify, there is a special technique where if you dont have vision of the vespene geyser when you issue the build command your probe will ignore any units blocking the placement.
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i just tested with hold, stop, patrol inside the gas.
protoss still built gas T.T
not bug or i'm doign it wrong.
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EPT
