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On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense.
Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as:
"A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense."
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On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense."
yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game...
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Austria24417 Posts
On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game...
It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken.
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On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken.
AHAHAHAHAH :D
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Austria24417 Posts
On April 24 2013 21:13 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken. AHAHAHAHAH :D
Great argument.
Good players already use hydras well. Hell, good players already used hydras well in WoL. Learn to use them instead of whining.
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On April 24 2013 21:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:13 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken. AHAHAHAHAH :D Great argument. Good players already use hydras well. Hell, good players already used hydras well in WoL. Learn to use them instead of whining.
no good player uses them in ZvZ. no good player wins with them in ZvP (except i think life won then his opponent never teched to storm which even artosis mentioned was very bad) and most good player who tried roach hydra vs bio lost + even vs mech you need viper or lose to prehivepushes (see GSL maru games). so yeah before saying one of the worst units in the game would be super OP with 1 more armor which basically does not a lot and literally nothing to the counters like colossus and storm in ZvP and banes in ZvZ and even you say its insanely UP in ZvT so no problem there, you should think before posting.
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Australia421 Posts
These changes are ok but they're not what I expected. The oracle speed buff is really interesting as it could make for some sick plays, Burrow is definitely an under used upgrade with alot of potential. Wouldn't change too much if either of these were applied in my opinion. Corruptors should also get a buff to deal with skytoss. + Damge vs Shields Maybe?
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Maybe they should add an oracle speed upgrade instead of increasing the default speed
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On April 24 2013 21:13 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken. AHAHAHAHAH :D
Give me exclusive 3-armor hydras and I'll win you a GSL.
I just have to learn to defend bunker and cannon rushes, because that's what it'll take to win against me.
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Austria24417 Posts
On April 24 2013 21:22 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:13 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken. AHAHAHAHAH :D Great argument. Good players already use hydras well. Hell, good players already used hydras well in WoL. Learn to use them instead of whining. no good player uses them in ZvZ. no good player wins with them in ZvP (except i think life won then his opponent never teched to storm which even artosis mentioned was very bad) and most good player who tried roach hydra vs bio lost + even vs mech you need viper or lose to prehivepushes (see GSL maru games). so yeah before saying one of the worst units in the game would be super OP with 1 more armor which basically does not a lot and literally nothing to the counters like colossus and storm in ZvP and banes in ZvZ and even you say its insanely UP in ZvT so no problem there, you should think before posting.
So basically your argument is "if you can't spam hydras without making anything else, hydras are bad!"
I don't even wanna respond to that.
Roach/hydra/viper is insanely strong vs protoss. Imagine the whole thing with stronger hydras. Imagine a 2 base hydra bust with stronger hydras. Imagine all sorts of roach/hydra attacks on a protoss third before colossi are out in high numbers. The list goes on and on and on.
Good players used hydras EVERY ZvZ in WoL. The only reason they're not being used much right now is because transitioning into them from mass muta wars is insanely hard, especially with weaker infestor support.
And I never said it's insanely UP in ZvT, muta/ling/bane has just been around longer and is way more figured out + has more mobility which seems to be key in the matchup right now.
One day... zergs will discover how tanking works. It's like making pure colossi without support units because colossi have insane damage output. Colossi die fucking fast, that's why you get support for them.
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On April 24 2013 21:29 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:13 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken. AHAHAHAHAH :D Give me exclusive 3-armor hydras and I'll win you a GSL. I just have to learn to defend bunker and cannon rushes, because that's what it'll take to win against me.
Scratch that, give me 3-armor marines instead.
:D
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On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken.
Colossus will still rape hydras trust me, its all about the vipers with colossus one armor isn't big enough. A roach hydra maxed army against a maxed protoss colossus army with the same upgrades would rape 1 armored hydras. Maybe just maybe you can trade efficiently just because they die more slowly. Just try in a map editor because i don't believe it.
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On April 24 2013 21:30 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:22 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:13 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken. AHAHAHAHAH :D Great argument. Good players already use hydras well. Hell, good players already used hydras well in WoL. Learn to use them instead of whining. no good player uses them in ZvZ. no good player wins with them in ZvP (except i think life won then his opponent never teched to storm which even artosis mentioned was very bad) and most good player who tried roach hydra vs bio lost + even vs mech you need viper or lose to prehivepushes (see GSL maru games). so yeah before saying one of the worst units in the game would be super OP with 1 more armor which basically does not a lot and literally nothing to the counters like colossus and storm in ZvP and banes in ZvZ and even you say its insanely UP in ZvT so no problem there, you should think before posting. So basically your argument is "if you can't spam hydras without making anything else, hydras are bad!" I don't even wanna respond to that. Roach/hydra/viper is insanely strong vs protoss. Imagine the whole thing with stronger hydras. Imagine a 2 base hydra bust with stronger hydras. Imagine all sorts of roach/hydra attacks on a protoss third before colossi are out in high numbers. The list goes on and on and on. Good players used hydras EVERY ZvZ in WoL. The only reason they're not being used much right now is because transitioning into them from mass muta wars is insanely hard, especially with weaker infestor support. And I never said it's insanely UP in ZvT, muta/ling/bane has just been around longer and is way more figured out + has more mobility which seems to be key in the matchup right now. One day... zergs will discover how tanking works.
2 base hydra sucks. even a gold player can scout that and defend.
roach hydra viper is good vs colossustech yes. it gets really bad once HT are out which are out vs hivetech. oh and +1 armor wont change anything vs that.
ZvZ as you say hydras arent viable at all in HOTS (stop talking about WoL...).
and ZvT now you say they are good and just ling bling muta is better?! rofl. ling bling muta gets smashed in macro games, roach hydra is worse so clearly hydras are fine...seems logical.
and i not once said i want to build hydras only. ling hydra, ling bling hydra, roach ling hydra, whatever nothing is playable without vipersupport and even with vipersupport it fails other than vs mech. but yeah clearly you know it better than all the pro players that dont want to win and dont build hydras just because they hate how they look xD
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On April 24 2013 21:30 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:22 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:13 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken. AHAHAHAHAH :D Great argument. Good players already use hydras well. Hell, good players already used hydras well in WoL. Learn to use them instead of whining. no good player uses them in ZvZ. no good player wins with them in ZvP (except i think life won then his opponent never teched to storm which even artosis mentioned was very bad) and most good player who tried roach hydra vs bio lost + even vs mech you need viper or lose to prehivepushes (see GSL maru games). so yeah before saying one of the worst units in the game would be super OP with 1 more armor which basically does not a lot and literally nothing to the counters like colossus and storm in ZvP and banes in ZvZ and even you say its insanely UP in ZvT so no problem there, you should think before posting. So basically your argument is "if you can't spam hydras without making anything else, hydras are bad!" I don't even wanna respond to that. Roach/hydra/viper is insanely strong vs protoss. Imagine the whole thing with stronger hydras. Imagine a 2 base hydra bust with stronger hydras. Imagine all sorts of roach/hydra attacks on a protoss third before colossi are out in high numbers. The list goes on and on and on. Good players used hydras EVERY ZvZ in WoL. The only reason they're not being used much right now is because transitioning into them from mass muta wars is insanely hard, especially with weaker infestor support. And I never said it's insanely UP in ZvT, muta/ling/bane has just been around longer and is way more figured out + has more mobility which seems to be key in the matchup right now. One day... zergs will discover how tanking works. It's like making pure colossi without support units because colossi have insane damage output. Colossi die fucking fast, that's why you get support for them.
Ok i agree its strong as a timing attack with vipers its all about that but if you add storm and really late game its not that strong.
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Austria24417 Posts
On April 24 2013 21:37 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:30 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:22 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:13 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken. AHAHAHAHAH :D Great argument. Good players already use hydras well. Hell, good players already used hydras well in WoL. Learn to use them instead of whining. no good player uses them in ZvZ. no good player wins with them in ZvP (except i think life won then his opponent never teched to storm which even artosis mentioned was very bad) and most good player who tried roach hydra vs bio lost + even vs mech you need viper or lose to prehivepushes (see GSL maru games). so yeah before saying one of the worst units in the game would be super OP with 1 more armor which basically does not a lot and literally nothing to the counters like colossus and storm in ZvP and banes in ZvZ and even you say its insanely UP in ZvT so no problem there, you should think before posting. So basically your argument is "if you can't spam hydras without making anything else, hydras are bad!" I don't even wanna respond to that. Roach/hydra/viper is insanely strong vs protoss. Imagine the whole thing with stronger hydras. Imagine a 2 base hydra bust with stronger hydras. Imagine all sorts of roach/hydra attacks on a protoss third before colossi are out in high numbers. The list goes on and on and on. Good players used hydras EVERY ZvZ in WoL. The only reason they're not being used much right now is because transitioning into them from mass muta wars is insanely hard, especially with weaker infestor support. And I never said it's insanely UP in ZvT, muta/ling/bane has just been around longer and is way more figured out + has more mobility which seems to be key in the matchup right now. One day... zergs will discover how tanking works. 2 base hydra sucks. even a gold player can scout that and defend. roach hydra viper is good vs colossustech yes. it gets really bad once HT are out which are out vs hivetech. oh and +1 armor wont change anything vs that. ZvZ as you say hydras arent viable at all in HOTS (stop talking about WoL...). and ZvT now you say they are good and just ling bling muta is better?! rofl. and i not once said i want to build hydras only. ling hydra, ling bling hydra, roach ling hydra, whatever nothing is playable without vipersupport and even with vipersupport it fails other than vs mech. but yeah clearly you know it better than all the pro players that dont want to win and dont build hydras j ust because they hate how they look xD
What in the.
The top players are using hydras, that's the thing. PvZ has tons of hydras, ZvZ will have them too once muta wars get solved (which blizzard is trying to do with the spore change) and TvZ, yes, they're actually not horrible. Muta/ling/bane is better because terran is currently playing an insanely aggressively style with tons of small attacks. Muta/ling/bane is just overall better at dealing with that + putting on counteraggression PLUS it transitions smoothly into ultras because of your upgrade path (melee/carapace).
In PvZ, you'll usually have vipers out faster than when protoss has enough templar to deal with roach/hydra/viper. If not, protoss has been skipping a few colossi or upgrades or something else gas-heavy to rush HTs and you're fine anyway.
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Ultra viper roach hydra is really strong late game if Protoss fucks up his composition and if you micro out of storms and use blinding cloud you can efficiently trade and win at masters. But ultras need the armor upgrades i don't have a problem with pvz but i don't think better armored hydras would brake the game. Hydras sucks in zvt because marines are to strong vs hydras.
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They should make burrow teir1 like in bw, that would open up for alot of cool play. Also some slight buff on viper and swarmhost.
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I was laughing at the +armor to hydras haha OMG would that ever break PvZ.
I think Muta Wars are hard to solve... I don't know if spore buff will do much honestly, it's not like all muta fights happen above a base or something where spores would normally be at that point in the game, Mutas are a lot about map control too, so they'll often be flying around/engaging where spores won't be. Maybe queen or Hydra anti air bio buff would be a lot better, the buff has to come from a mobile source to work against mutas, not static D.
Oracle speed will be a welcomed change
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They could decrease fungal cost from 75 to 50...then with pathogen glands, you'd have 2 fungals per infestor by the time mutas came out.
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On April 24 2013 22:19 People_0f_Color wrote:
They could decrease fungal cost from 75 to 50...then with pathogen glands, you'd have 2 fungals per infestor by the time mutas came out.
Yes, after the end of WoL we need more Infestor dominance!
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EPT
