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On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game...
yeah, I don't care for your hydra whining. They are pretty useful units in many, many ZvP builds. They have been a stable ZvZ unit in WoL ZvZ and would still be if it wasn't for mutas dominating any matchup when no mutalisks superduperhardcounter is being played. And they are quite OK for ZvT vs mech.
1armor might break the game already, because it makes a huge difference when fighting zealots and sentries. 2-3 armor hydras, and 2-3 base hydra attacks become stupidly good against Protoss.
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On April 24 2013 21:49 Usernameffs wrote:
Ultra viper roach hydra is really strong late game if Protoss fucks up his composition and if you micro out of storms and use blinding cloud you can efficiently trade and win at masters. But ultras need the armor upgrades i don't have a problem with pvz but i don't think better armored hydras would brake the game. Hydras sucks in zvt because marines are to strong vs hydras.
Yeah, they suck so hard that stephano was eating korean terrans alive with roach hydra (end of wol). And that was during those times where terrans went tanks. Now terrans make mines, which makes the roach hydra composition even stronger...
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On April 23 2013 09:31 KadaverBB wrote:Ugh 
Why ugh? These are some rather valid changes.
After the infestor nerf muta ling is quite dominant in ZvZ.
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Where is the bunker change?
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On April 24 2013 22:27 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:49 Usernameffs wrote:
Ultra viper roach hydra is really strong late game if Protoss fucks up his composition and if you micro out of storms and use blinding cloud you can efficiently trade and win at masters. But ultras need the armor upgrades i don't have a problem with pvz but i don't think better armored hydras would brake the game. Hydras sucks in zvt because marines are to strong vs hydras. Yeah, they suck so hard that stephano was eating korean terrans alive with roach hydra (end of wol). And that was during those times where terrans went tanks. Now terrans make mines, which makes the roach hydra composition even stronger...
that was a rush build designed to kill players relying on hellion/banshee for the first 10mins. Not saying that roach/hydra always sucks vs Terran, but mass marine/medivac eats it alive in direct combat, marauders and tanks just makes it much worse. It only works until Terran can produce 10+ marines at a time - which is very soon in a bomberish macro style and after 10-12mins else. And Vipers really don't help you in that situation, unless the Terran relies heavily on tanks.
Edit: and all of that is assuming direct combat, not speed medivacs everywhere due to lack of mutas.
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Better patch ever : +10 Health to Hydras
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I don't get the hydra whining either. Say what you want, they're 6 range, 3.375 speed, and high DPS. 6 range is a lot in SC2. They need a drawback to balance that and that drawback is low hitpoints.
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About hydras. Imo the real deal with hydras is that they require those 2 expensive upgrades to just become a normal unit with no abilities. No other unit in the game requires that much of an investment. Marines take 2 upgrades but: 1) upgrades are cheaper, 2) stim is shared with marauders, 3) they are tier 1 unit.
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Austria24417 Posts
On April 24 2013 22:44 Cheerio wrote:
About hydras. Imo the real deal with hydras is that they require those 2 expensive upgrades to just become a normal unit with no abilities. No other unit in the game requires that much of an investment. Marines take 2 upgrades but: 1) upgrades are cheaper, 2) stim is shared with marauders, 3) they are tier 1 unit.
The colossus. Robo bay + colossus + range. Unless you wanna count their cliff walking as an ability.
The carrier. Fleet beacon + graviton catapult + carrier + the insane build time + interceptors.
Stalkers cost more initially and they have horrible DPS + die fast.
Every unit has drawbacks as said above. Not saying that the units listed above are bad or too expensive, etc. Just saying that sometimes units would be too good at certain points in the game if they had all their upgrades enabled initially. But that should be fairly obvious.
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On April 24 2013 22:35 Pogomais wrote:
Better patch ever : +10 Health to Hydras
Nope. :D
Seriously people underestimate what any amount of variation of a unit's stats induces...
Just to compare, imagine +17 hp to hellbats...
Edit: To be fair, that's true that hydras are fragile cost-wise, compared to hellbats. But hydras are honestly not that bad that you need to give them a 12% hp increase
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On April 24 2013 21:31 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:29 ZenithM wrote:On April 24 2013 21:13 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:On April 24 2013 21:08 Big J wrote:On April 24 2013 20:41 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2013 20:37 Giantt wrote:
Hydras should get base armor boost - something in between 1 and 3 - that would solve so many problems and open new opportunities without being OP imo.
I do not feel that spore +bio damage would bring what's intended. A tier2 ground unit with as much native armor as capital ships? Makes sense. Though I thinkt that 1armor hydras could already break the game and 2,3 is just ridiculous, your argument doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's as useful as: "A Tier 1 ground unit with as much dps as a Capital Ship? Makes sense." yeah 1 armor would totally break one of the most UP units in the game... It wouldn't just break the game, it would absolutely smash it. Protoss would never win PvZ again. No other unit would be made in ZvZ. TvZ might be the only matchup that wouldn't be totally broken. AHAHAHAHAH :D Give me exclusive 3-armor hydras and I'll win you a GSL. I just have to learn to defend bunker and cannon rushes, because that's what it'll take to win against me. Scratch that, give me 3-armor marines instead. :D
I'd better have an upgrade from the Hots campain. Give me swarmings or double drone and I seal a GSL EZPZ.
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On April 23 2013 09:42 TimENT wrote:
lol damn blizz wut no t nerf? niiiice
Terran nerf ? Wake up and get some facts like:
Terran makes the minority of players across All Servers already (Kr, Eu, Na) in higher leagues while Zerg dominates and Toss is rather stable.
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Austria24417 Posts
On April 24 2013 23:01 saltis wrote:Terran nerf ? Wake up and get some facts like: Terran makes the minority of players across All Servers already (Kr, Eu, Na) in higher leagues while Zerg dominates and Toss is rather stable.
Your post history is glorious. This one not so much though as that's wrong. The top of every ladder atm is almost entirely terran. I think you're mistaking this for a WoL thread.
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On April 24 2013 23:03 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 23:01 saltis wrote:On April 23 2013 09:42 TimENT wrote:
lol damn blizz wut no t nerf? niiiice Terran nerf ? Wake up and get some facts like: Terran makes the minority of players across All Servers already (Kr, Eu, Na) in higher leagues while Zerg dominates and Toss is rather stable. Your post history is glorious. This one not so much though as that's wrong. The top of every ladder atm is almost entirely terran. I think you're mistaking this for a WoL thread.
Check yourself, info updated daily :
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all
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Austria24417 Posts
Interesting, however you may have seen recent screenshots from people like TLO that show where that "minority of terran players" is. They're right at the top.
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On April 24 2013 23:14 saltis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 23:03 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 24 2013 23:01 saltis wrote:On April 23 2013 09:42 TimENT wrote:
lol damn blizz wut no t nerf? niiiice Terran nerf ? Wake up and get some facts like: Terran makes the minority of players across All Servers already (Kr, Eu, Na) in higher leagues while Zerg dominates and Toss is rather stable. Your post history is glorious. This one not so much though as that's wrong. The top of every ladder atm is almost entirely terran. I think you're mistaking this for a WoL thread. Check yourself, info updated daily : http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all
Race distribution doesn't equal balance. So your point is moot especially with such a small % differences.
On April 24 2013 23:14 DarkLordOlli wrote:Interesting, however you may have seen recent screenshots from people like TLO that show where that "minority of terran players" is. They're right at the top.
And this +
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On April 24 2013 23:14 DarkLordOlli wrote:Interesting, however you may have seen recent screenshots from people like TLO that show where that "minority of terran players" is. They're right at the top.
Seems like "minority of terran players" you are talking about currently are the best players while overall Terran makes the minority.
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Austria24417 Posts
On April 24 2013 23:18 saltis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 23:14 DarkLordOlli wrote:Interesting, however you may have seen recent screenshots from people like TLO that show where that "minority of terran players" is. They're right at the top. Seems like "minority of terran players" you are talking about currently are the best players while overall Terran makes the minority.
No, not really. EU terrans are not that much better than the other two races' players in EU. Same in korea where the top of the ladder is even more terran packed. They're not that much better, terran is just really strong right now.
As said above, percentage of representation doesn't equal balance.
Tbh I don't perfectly know how many terrans are where, it's just far far far from "zerg dominating", terran being bad and protoss being stable. Balance is prety decent atm.
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WTF Hydra are so op right now, it cost nothing and counter almost everything except colosus and ht, but with viper this became crazy.
All Z should go hydra in mid game : counter all gateway + immo and stargate and then add some roaches and viper and it is GG.
Hydra has too much dps, i understand why in WOL it has a big nerf out of creep.
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EPT
