Chinese national champion Comm has been disqualified from WCS America after being found to be using a registered tournament account that was not his own. On the ID 'Fruitsbasket', Comm was able to make it all the way to the final round of the winner's bracket, only to lose to Complexity's TheStC.
Comm did register for WCS America and checked in on time, but due to the massive amounts of sign-ups for the tournament and no restriction on who was able to play, many top Chinese national players such as Jim and Comm were unable to participate. Seeing what occurred, Fruitsbasket - a Chinese amateur - gave Comm his spot in the tournament and the Chinese champion, under disguise, was one series away from qualifying for WCS America before MLG found out what occurred and DQ'ed him from the tournament.
Now now, how else were Diamond players going to get their rocks off playing in a world championship, if MLG gives all the bracket spots to national champions and pro players?
People giving up their spots for pros happened in the EU qualifiers like all the time and no one gave a fuck. It's just so pointless, especially seeing how late MLG is to notice anything.
I think we should let Blizzard know of the issues with MLG, and maybe Blizz can put pressure on that end, seeing how MLG is not willing/competent in fixing things.
So my first thought is that it's a shitty situation, but MLG should follow their own rules whenever possible, and letting Comm essentially smurf his way all the way through the tournament is afaik not allowed.
Then I thought that the tournament is screwed anyways with how it handled the Chinese players, and that if it's this much of a joke already, they may as well have let him keep playing. It's not as if you can dig the grave any deeper -- except by DQing Comm ...
On April 22 2013 08:27 achan1058 wrote: I think we should let Blizzard know of the issues with MLG, and maybe Blizz can put pressure on that end, seeing how MLG is not willing/competent in fixing things.
Wait a minute, so you want one incompetent organization to fix the mistakes of another?
you let an amateur from china keep his place but not wcs china champion? this is silly, blizzard will not be pleased, and how can you blame the dude, mlg's mess up meant he had to do that to compete.
There is still time to change this decision. I really hope that MLG reads the outrage here and decides to do that. But given the way they responded to feedback so far I really doubt it will happen...
As shitty as it is that he didn't get into the brackets, a disqualification does make sense because it is essentially smurfing. I am assuming trading tournament spots is not allowed and the name that is signed up is the player that is expected to compete. Just imagine if it wasn't a pro chinese player doing this, there would be outrage. For example if I sign up, but then let like a top korean player play for me, and then last second say "oh I gave him my spot" I would get dq'ed so fast.
The original outrage of Comm not making it into the brackets is completely justified though, and should be some questions answered there. Point still stands that he can't be allowed to smurf his way in though, it will ruin the integrity of the tournament.
This is reached the point where I'm just sitting back with popcorn laughing my ass off seeing how much they can mess up before they have to just replay the whole qualifier...
It's all very entertaining if you're not involved.
Compare it to ESL: WCS EU qualifiers check-ins on day3 lasted for 65 seconds. Many players missed it including Shuttle. Teamliquid voluteers gave up their spots so that Shuttle could play.
On April 22 2013 08:27 achan1058 wrote: I think we should let Blizzard know of the issues with MLG, and maybe Blizz can put pressure on that end, seeing how MLG is not willing/competent in fixing things.
Wait a minute, so you want one incompetent organization to fix the mistakes of another?
Be careful what you wish for...
Call them incompetent but they sure designed this whole system. (even with all the flaws) MLG had to design 1 thing themselves, the qualifiers and they messed it up beyond belief.
Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
I really don't get how the Chinese champion doesn't get seeded into the tournament. It's not like Chinese players can play in the closest qualifier, WCS Korea, because you actually have to be on location to qualify for that.
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
The original player did not play any games in this tournament, every game was Comm.
so giving a spot to a pro cauz he wanted to help ,is dQable? wcs eu ppl were allowed to do that, it was their choice to give away their spot , whats the problem?
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
The original player did not play any games in this tournament, every game was Comm.
Exactly, the Chinese amateur simply donated his spot in the tournament to Comm before he played any games.
Fruitsbasket never played. He saw that Comm got shafted, gave him the spot, and Comm just played all the games under another ID. The only case you can make is that players would have prepared differently if they knew they were facing Comm instead of a random guy, but I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the people in the tournament have no fucking clue what is going on in the Chinese scene.
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
Should MLG have taken this a bit more serious instead of a quick cashgrab (hello sign in fees that got removed and everything pressed in 1day and still lacking admins)? Yes.
No word for this. How can they be so incompetent ? Blizzard choosing ESL and MLG really screwed the qualifiers. Still MLG are kind to ESL, showing there are a lot of ways to fuck everything up.
Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
Original Fruitbasket didn't play a game and gave his account at the beginning. Comm say that too:
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
Only Comm has played on the account. FruitBasket did not play a single game in this tournament.
On April 22 2013 08:43 Fionn wrote: Fruitsbasket never played. He saw that Comm got shafted, gave him the spot, and Comm just played all the games under another ID. The only case you can make is that players would have prepared differently if they knew they were facing Comm instead of a random guy, but I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the people in the tournament have no fucking clue what is going on in the Chinese scene.
FruitsBasket should have used his name change and made himself ||||||||||||
OP needs to specify that Comm and 3 other Chinese pros were notified by MLG that they have gotten into the qualifier. But it turned out MLG lied to them.
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
Diamond league? Really? I like seeing new blood, but a Diamond League player has little to no shot in a tournament like this
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
Diamond league? Really? I like seeing new blood, but a Diamond League player has little to no shot in a tournament like this
Diamond? Sorry by this time if you arent like high master/bottom GM+ you aren't rising anywhere. Even the GM players are having a hard time rising and you expect a diamond to rise?
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
this argument is such ass, letting players in with 0 chance of beating a random NA low-grandmaster isn't how we learn about new talent. doing first-come first-serve qualifiers with limited spots is how you screw new blood, if anything, as the known (NA) pros get preferential treatment (while random others like the chinese pros get completely screwed rofl)
this format, and now MLG's decisions, have just given random walkovers and screwed over legitimate competitors. like what the fuck
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
Diamond league? Really? I like seeing new blood, but a Diamond League player has little to no shot in a tournament like this
Diamond? Sorry by this time if you arent like high master/bottom GM+ you aren't rising anywhere. Even the GM players are having a hard time rising and you expect a diamond to rise?
Well he should have contacted admins and asked if it was ok to take over the spot. Otherwise it would be allowed to smurf all the way, or make 100 accounts and take whichever seed you like best... It's a fair decision IMO, personally this late I would have rather seen them allowing it and just letting him play, but you can't fault MLG for enforcing their rules.
On April 22 2013 08:44 larse wrote: OP needs to specify that Comm and 3 other Chinese pros were notified by MLG that they have gotten into the qualifier. But it turned out MLG lied to them.
On April 22 2013 08:48 BaaL` wrote: Well he should have contacted admins and asked if it was ok to take over the spot. Otherwise it would be allowed to smurf all the way, or make 100 accounts and take whichever seed you like best... It's a fair decision IMO, personally this late I would have rather seen them allowing it and just letting him play, but you can't fault MLG for enforcing their rules.
Ya but you can fault them for fucking up, letting him sign up and check in on time, and then not letting him play.
jesus christ, nasl probably should have run this thing. they've run large scale online qualifiers before without being this fucking stupid, right?
Eh, the problem is that we wouldn't have sound for our stream =/ but i guess the players will be happy?
But you'll have Bitterdam, Gretorp, Frodan and that dog! Plus NASL will take the players to play mining out with bulldozers or something :p
Doesn't NASL even have boobs in form of some.. booby girl (nice eyes though, just saying!)?
Nah, you're right though. For Bitterdam alone it would've been worth it. The qualifier does not feel like being organised by a huge ass company at all. Feels more like reading about PPSL than MLG.
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
Being the inaugural season of WCS America, no, new blood. Theoretically, new blood should rise up from Challenger League (which, unfortunately, for S1 takes its participants from the topX of the premier league qualifier). Unfortunate for any professional players as well as "unfair"
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
its crazy how well mannered the chinese guys have been over this ridiculous incident as well. MLG screwed them over a dozen times and they're just like "hmm.." about it. mad respect to these guys for handling this american incompetence so well.
I like how the same thing happened in EU, but there the players handled it right by going to the admins. MLG did everything right here too. When someone wrote in the LR that someone gave his account to someone else, I was just waiting for the DQ to happen. Way better then one player complaining at the offlines and MLG having no other choice then to DQ comm there, because what he did was against the rules.
Only thing that was horrible is that someone told the Chinese players they would have guaranteed spots in the qualifier.
On April 22 2013 08:40 jubil wrote: Should Comm have gotten a spot to compete in the first place? Yes, he's an established progamer.
However, Should Diamond-leaguers et al. have an opportunity to play in this tournament? Yes, that's how new blood rises up, which is what the entire point of qualifiers is. Should MLG disqualify a contestant that uses another players ID if the original player has already played games in this tournament? Yes, and it shouldn't matter who it was that did it.
Being the inaugural season of WCS America, no, new blood. Theoretically, new blood should rise up from Challenger League (which, unfortunately, for S1 takes its participants from the topX of the premier league qualifier). Unfortunate for any professional players as well as "unfair"
If blizzard wanted all 'new blood' they would never have made the premier leagues.
Has WCS helped the scene at all? SC2 could potentially lose NASL because they can't clash with WCS and it's difficult to not do that with a full league. Chinese players are completely fucked over. SEA players need to play at ungodly hours to qualify for the only server with a tolerable ping. Koreans aren't happy with GSL changes. Americans aren't happy with the Korean invasion. The SC2 scene looks like more of a joke being represented by MLG and ESL (ESL are much better than MLG though). In what way has WCS benefited the scene?
On April 22 2013 09:10 fearpLug wrote: well if mlg never got informed, the dq is righly deserved. i think thinks would have been different, if mlg was informed.
Isn't it their job to actually be informed about the things happening in their own tournament ? I mean everybody knows that Fruitbasket is comm since yesterday.
This is absolutely ridiculous, Blizzard needs to come in and set rules across the board so we don't have so many mistakes.
I said before, i'll say it again, should have just had 2 seasons this year if you didn't have anything planned or even a clue about ANY of the details. So sad that our big tournament is plagued with so much bs.
I had heard, I don't remember where, that Fruitsbasket had actually played the first round before giving the account to Comm, but I see now that I was wrong. That still doesn't make it not a smurf, which is against MLG rules. I totally agree that's it's a real shitty situation, I'd love to see Comm compete with the best of NA.
Concerning how lower league players got in the bracket...the point I want to make is that it's not right to say that, given the limited number of slots, MLG should have kicked out some players in favor of others. Instead we should say that there should have been slots for everyone. For one, you can make a bit of a slippery slope argument about where to draw the line - ie. if "only people who actually have a shot at winning should have gotten slots", should we limit it to NA masters? Sounds reasonable. But clearly a low master wouldn't win a tournament full of high masters. What about only NA high masters, or NA GM, or NA high GM, or given the number of Koreans participating, Korean GM? On the other hand, lower level players can definitely beat higher level players if they get lucky with BO cheeses, so while it's an extremely low chance, it's not 100% impossible for a lower level player to actually win. Finally, since it is an open tournament, participating is a good way for lower level or unknown players who don't have teams and don't get those slots at invite-only events to get tournament experience.
Basically, MLG had a shitty setup which unfairly shafted Comm. However, by MLG's own rules they were right to dq him. There's no perfect solution at this point in time, and the best solution would have been to include Chinese progamers from the start. Personally I think there should have been a whole entire WCS China alongside the other three.
edit: and if MLG told him he had a slot but he didn't, it's just incredible how shitty the setup was
On April 22 2013 09:10 fearpLug wrote: well if mlg never got informed, the dq is righly deserved. i think thinks would have been different, if mlg was informed.
There was a similar situation (not exact) with shuttle and ESL, but he got to play.
what the hell MLG? your regisration rule get our China player IG.Jim and IG.XY down and then you use another rediculous rule eliminate Comm? your discrimination rule sacks!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=408976 LOOK at my thread here, MLG is using their rules differently, Yesterday, official stream said TOP and crank match will be tomorrow. Then, crank tweet he already won, after 10mins, MLG website update. MLG rules said your can't share your result.
wow, what a mess this qualifier has been, blizzard should probably just redo all this, letting NASL be in charge this time though, used to like MLG too before all this
On April 22 2013 09:16 jalen wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=408976 LOOK at my thread here, MLG is using their rules differently, Yesterday, official stream said TOP and crank match will be tomorrow. Then, crank tweet he already won, after 10mins, MLG website update. MLG rules said your can't share your result.
User was temp banned for this post.
Yes. That's the way they do. They can change the rule for famous player but not others.
i think there is a lot of critiquing that can be done about the structure of the tournament. that said, when you enter a tournament you consent to all the rules of it and i dont see how anyone can find fault with comm's dq [however ugly of a situation it is].
On April 22 2013 09:16 jalen wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=408976 LOOK at my thread here, MLG is using their rules differently, Yesterday, official stream said TOP and crank match will be tomorrow. Then, crank tweet he already won, after 10mins, MLG website update. MLG rules said your can't share your result.
User was temp banned for this post.
Yes. That's the way they do. They can change the rule for famous player but not others.
Rules are rules, you can hate MLG for fucking up the sign-ups for the Chinese players but it should be obvious you can't do workaround like this. The DQ seems perfectly justified to me.
On April 22 2013 08:44 larse wrote: OP needs to specify that Comm and 3 other Chinese pros were notified by MLG that they have gotten into the qualifier. But it turned out MLG lied to them.
On April 22 2013 08:44 larse wrote: OP needs to specify that Comm and 3 other Chinese pros were notified by MLG that they have gotten into the qualifier. But it turned out MLG lied to them.
ok, this finally makes me want to puke. i am out of here. i can't even imagine how pissed off the chinese people have to be.
What's the chances that they were actually checked in (as it would show them as checked in), but didn't fall within the parameters based on time registered which is why they were bumped out? This sucks, I agree, but it's just something that needs to be learned from and fixed in the future.
Tweet him. Make sure Comm gets an apology and is reinstated. Also, I think he owes an apology to all the Chinese SC2 teams for seeding gold leaguers and map hackers like PhysicsLee over them.
Nazis operated the concentration camps because they were following the rules. Thus, "rules are the rules" is a completely ridiculous argument for anything besides an argument over whether the rules were followed. Its an argument for people unable to think for themselves, used constantly by these people...
In a word: the rules are not a good excuse to behave in an absurd, offensive, ignorant manner.
On April 22 2013 09:24 Liquid`Zephyr wrote: i think there is a lot of critiquing that can be done about the structure of the tournament. that said, when you enter a tournament you consent to all the rules of it and i dont see how anyone can find fault with comm's dq [however ugly of a situation it is].
When the rules don't make sense and aren't flexible they have to be critiqued and changed before they cause irreversible damage. We shouldn't look at this when it's over and say 'ye that was sad, nothing to be done now though', better luck next time.
Fairly certain most people would agree MLG dropped the ball with this tourney. The important thing though, is to identify where they messed up and make corrections to improve future tournaments. Some suggestions (not all original, some borrowed from various ppl that posted throughout the day):
1) Stop using McDonalds as a recruiting center for Admins 2) Ensure employees are not racists, in today's case, make sure they don't have anti-Chinese sentiments 3) Get rid of the Shadow Brackets. Hiding brackets so it can be cashed in at a later time is kind of lame. Not to mention it seemed kind of fishy that some of the matchups in the LB were different than what was expected... 4) Improve Bracket display on MLG site if they are really serious about forcing people to use it... It was ugly and quite cumbersome. Who was Axiom4759 again? 5) Implement additional pre-requisites for registration if it is going to be capped at 512. Pro's, GM's, Masters...etc etc. Priority could have been set like that. 6) Multiple streams? There were a lot of matchups I did not really care too much for...woulda been nice to have an alternative option.
I'm sure there is a lot more, but I've wasted enough time on MLG for one day...on to Rollplay.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Hey they busy counting the blizzard money. They don't got time to responds to "trolls and complainers" Remember its the community fault we complain much
On April 22 2013 09:38 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Man this tournament is just one massive screw-up on MLG's part. It's really crazy how much they're fucking this up for everyone.
On April 22 2013 09:38 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Man this tournament is just one massive screw-up on MLG's part. It's really crazy how much they're fucking this up for everyone.
Not MLG's fault...This is blizzard's fuck up.
If ESL were a disaster, I'd agree with you. But this is entirely on MLG.
On April 22 2013 09:38 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Man this tournament is just one massive screw-up on MLG's part. It's really crazy how much they're fucking this up for everyone.
Not MLG's fault...This is blizzard's fuck up.
The only fuck up of Blizz in this case is picking MLG as the tournament organizer for NA. You would think a tournament as big as MLG would be a lot more organized and prepared over years of experience.
On April 22 2013 09:24 Liquid`Zephyr wrote: i think there is a lot of critiquing that can be done about the structure of the tournament. that said, when you enter a tournament you consent to all the rules of it and i dont see how anyone can find fault with comm's dq [however ugly of a situation it is].
If they are going to be sticklers on the rules, then they should do that for everyone, not just when they pick and choose to follow their own rules..it makes things even more confusing and frustrating.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
Disgusting, MLG is such a joke. Admins should be fired after all those drama and huge sanction by Blizzard against MLG after this terrible organisation. Such anti-chinese decision are a huge insult to Chinese scene. I don't want to look WCS America anymore, if Chinese players are not directly seeded in Code A America this will be another joke. MLG must apologyze and make decision to repair their errors. Hacker, Hyun and now this, seriously Blizzard make someone else run this tournament, we can't find a real bracket too.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
really? i think you got confused with the poster that asked for people to tweet sundanc eto apologise and reinstate
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
Oh my bad lol. Guess they're even more incompetent than I thought
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Tweet him. Make sure Comm gets an apology and is reinstated.
I don't think it'll do much, but if people do tweet him.. keep your pitchforks away.
No, impale him with your pitchforks, guys.
He's the Chief Executive Officer of a multi million dollar gaming league with years of experience. As a CEO normally would, he pulls the strings. He is also the figurehead of MLG and deserves the PR shitstorm.
I would go further and say boycott the absolute shit out of further MLG events until they apologise to Comm and the other Chinese pros who registered and were refused a seed. However, internet boycotts do not work.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
Surprised an admin would make this thread considering the only conceivable reason to separate this topic from the "No Chinese players in WCS NA" thread is to heap more criticism on MLG. After all, this was already (and still is) being discussed to death in the other thread.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
How did Obama win the election? 1 vote at a time. I already cancelled my MLG subs on twitch.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
On one hand, it's important when giving out official statements to use an appropriate channel (Twitter is not an appropriate channel in this case). That way, the organization can give a consistent and accurate message.
On the other hand, that is just a callous answer, and really makes Sundance seem like someone who just doesn't care.
I hope MLG releases an official statement after this fiasco.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
The rules also say that if you release information you will be dq'd, but crank isn't dq'd....it's the fact that they are picking and choosing when to follow their own rules which is most frustrating. Never know what will happen next. "Results of the matches may not be shared. This means that the matches cannot be streamed, results cannot be shared on social media, or posted on community websites, etc."
On April 22 2013 09:36 Kupon3ss wrote:
Nobody said two wrongs made a right, only that an infraction like that can and perhaps should be ignored
Individuals making it in or out of WCS NA has nothing to do with the scene, its the entire perception that the Chinese scene has been completely ignored and mistreated in this manner, literally lied to and ignored (some netizens are arguing maliciously) by the "official" Blizzard WCS proxy. What hope do Chinese progamers have for a viable scene if this is how they're treated?
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
The rules also say that if you release information you will be dq'd, but crank isn't dq'd....it's the fact that they are picking and choosing when to follow their own rules which is most frustrating. Never know what will happen next.
That is how all laws and rules work, people decide if they want to enforce them or not. One violation borderlines on cheating and the other one does not. It seems like a simple call to me.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
The rules also say that if you release information you will be dq'd, but crank isn't dq'd....it's the fact that they are picking and choosing when to follow their own rules which is most frustrating. Never know what will happen next.
That is how all laws and rules work, people decide if they want to enforce them or not. One violation borderlines on cheating and the other one does not. It seems like a simple call to me.
this interpretation is so wrong...."people decide if they want to enforce them or not"...then what's the point of the rules?
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
How did Obama win the election? 1 vote at a time. I already cancelled my MLG subs on twitch.
I am sure you did. See you at the next WSC event. It going to be awesome.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
How did Obama win the election? 1 vote at a time. I already cancelled my MLG subs on twitch.
I am sure you did. See you at the next WSC event. It going to be awesome.
I am already watching WSC. WSC Korea, and it's indeed awesome.
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Immature, I know, but I have too many things to do already, and have to find something to cut. They give me a reason to make me cut them.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
The rules also say that if you release information you will be dq'd, but crank isn't dq'd....it's the fact that they are picking and choosing when to follow their own rules which is most frustrating. Never know what will happen next.
That is how all laws and rules work, people decide if they want to enforce them or not. One violation borderlines on cheating and the other one does not. It seems like a simple call to me.
Because trying to find a way around MLG's retarded rules (yes retarded) is borderline cheating? Rules are rules, follow or don't, enforce them all the same. Unless MLG has some rule tier, it should be enforced in some way.
The entire event is just so poorly done, it's not even worth supporting MLG anymore.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
The rules also say that if you release information you will be dq'd, but crank isn't dq'd....it's the fact that they are picking and choosing when to follow their own rules which is most frustrating. Never know what will happen next.
That is how all laws and rules work, people decide if they want to enforce them or not. One violation borderlines on cheating and the other one does not. It seems like a simple call to me.
this interpretation is so wrong...."people decide if they want to enforce them or not"...then what's the point of the rules?
Its not wrong. I work in law and rules are not always enforced. The rules are there to be enforced for when you break them and cheat the system by attempting to qualify under someone else's account. Not when someone goes "YAY, I won!!!".
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... then none of this would have happened.
If you read /r/starcraft and the overall responses on this TL thread right now, I think you'll find a lot of people agree with me. Sundance needs to get his shit together.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
The rules also say that if you release information you will be dq'd, but crank isn't dq'd....it's the fact that they are picking and choosing when to follow their own rules which is most frustrating. Never know what will happen next.
That is how all laws and rules work, people decide if they want to enforce them or not. One violation borderlines on cheating and the other one does not. It seems like a simple call to me.
this interpretation is so wrong...."people decide if they want to enforce them or not"...then what's the point of the rules?
Its not wrong. I work in law and rules are not always enforced. The rules are there to be enforced for when you break them and cheat the system by attempting to qualify under someone else's account. Not when someone goes "YAY, I won!!!".
Hypothetically: If Comm had won against TheStC and qualified under the smurf account, then broke the news about his identity -- then it'd be okay?
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
The rules also say that if you release information you will be dq'd, but crank isn't dq'd....it's the fact that they are picking and choosing when to follow their own rules which is most frustrating. Never know what will happen next.
That is how all laws and rules work, people decide if they want to enforce them or not. One violation borderlines on cheating and the other one does not. It seems like a simple call to me.
this interpretation is so wrong...."people decide if they want to enforce them or not"...then what's the point of the rules?
Its not wrong. I work in law and rules are not always enforced. The rules are there to be enforced for when you break them and cheat the system by attempting to qualify under someone else's account. Not when someone goes "YAY, I won!!!".
so you basically just described something called leniency, which should have been applied and wasn't
you are assuming that opponents would have played differently if they knew it was comm...i highly doubt that would be the case
Not really MLG's fault imo, Comm technically smurfed, and smurfing is obviously not allowed. The DQ was totally warranted, but the bracket and tournament system is totally different thing.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... maybe none of this would have happened.
It is in order of registration, no league ranking. It was in the rules and huge red letters when they signed up. Map hackers don't wear signs and none of the other teams had problems getting their players into the qualifiers.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
The rules also say that if you release information you will be dq'd, but crank isn't dq'd....it's the fact that they are picking and choosing when to follow their own rules which is most frustrating. Never know what will happen next.
That is how all laws and rules work, people decide if they want to enforce them or not. One violation borderlines on cheating and the other one does not. It seems like a simple call to me.
this interpretation is so wrong...."people decide if they want to enforce them or not"...then what's the point of the rules?
Its not wrong. I work in law and rules are not always enforced. The rules are there to be enforced for when you break them and cheat the system by attempting to qualify under someone else's account. Not when someone goes "YAY, I won!!!".
Why are rules even there if you can pick and choose when to enforce at your leisure? Is account sharing in this instance a matter of cheating? The other guy never played, just one and it only got to that position cause MLG decided to be totally retarded about their bracket.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... then none of this would have happened.
If you read /r/starcraft and the overall responses on this TL thread right now, I think you'll find a lot of people agree with me. Sundance needs to get his shit together.
They did do their job. Those that registered and checked in got placed in the correct order. If you want to blame anyone, blame his team for not communicating to MLG to try and get a spot reserved. Seriously this has just gone too far and people want to cling to any argument they can to bitch and moan.
people here is being ridiculous. The fact that Comm did wrong and got DQ'd has NOTHING to do with other players doing wrong and not getting DQ'd (yet).
He technically registered more than once --> DQ'd. Could it be more simple than that? Dont get any further from that
On April 22 2013 09:57 Clefairy wrote: [quote] Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
The rules also say that if you release information you will be dq'd, but crank isn't dq'd....it's the fact that they are picking and choosing when to follow their own rules which is most frustrating. Never know what will happen next.
That is how all laws and rules work, people decide if they want to enforce them or not. One violation borderlines on cheating and the other one does not. It seems like a simple call to me.
this interpretation is so wrong...."people decide if they want to enforce them or not"...then what's the point of the rules?
Its not wrong. I work in law and rules are not always enforced. The rules are there to be enforced for when you break them and cheat the system by attempting to qualify under someone else's account. Not when someone goes "YAY, I won!!!".
Why are rules even there if you can pick and choose when to enforce at your leisure? Is account sharing in this instance a matter of cheating? The other guy never played, just one and it only got to that position cause MLG decided to be totally retarded about their bracket.
I think the issue here is that if I know I'm going to go up against, say MKP. I know what I'm going up against, he's going to probably fast expand and then macro up and go for an early pressure. If I'm up against diamond league Joe, then I know he's going to have to cheese me because I'll win any macro game. So if MKP joins as a diamond league Joe, my initial plan is going to be off and I'll have no clue what is happening.
Can't say MLG is in the wrong here. Thing is, Comm shouldn't have needed to resort to doing such a thing in the first place. MLG dropped the ball with having a SINGLE 512 man qualifier.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... maybe none of this would have happened.
It is in order of registration, no league ranking. It was in the rules and huge red letters when they signed up. Map hackers don't wear signs and none of the other teams had problems getting their players into the qualifiers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chinese players signed up ASAP, were given the thumbs up by admins, re-contacted the admins when they realized they weren't in the bracket, assured by admins that the entire bracket wasn't up, and then confirmed that, no, even though they were repeatedly told by admins that nothing was wrong, they weren't actually signed up -- but by then it was too late to do anything anyways, of course.
On April 22 2013 09:57 Clefairy wrote: [quote] Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
The rules also say that if you release information you will be dq'd, but crank isn't dq'd....it's the fact that they are picking and choosing when to follow their own rules which is most frustrating. Never know what will happen next.
That is how all laws and rules work, people decide if they want to enforce them or not. One violation borderlines on cheating and the other one does not. It seems like a simple call to me.
this interpretation is so wrong...."people decide if they want to enforce them or not"...then what's the point of the rules?
Its not wrong. I work in law and rules are not always enforced. The rules are there to be enforced for when you break them and cheat the system by attempting to qualify under someone else's account. Not when someone goes "YAY, I won!!!".
so you basically just described something called leniency, which should have been applied and wasn't
Yep and it shouldn't have been. Don't try and qualify on someone else's account. That is straight up lying and not ok at any time. There is a reason they have these rules in place and enforce them.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... then none of this would have happened.
If you read /r/starcraft and the overall responses on this TL thread right now, I think you'll find a lot of people agree with me. Sundance needs to get his shit together.
They did do their job. Those that registered and checked in got placed in the correct order. If you want to blame anyone, blame his team for not communicating to MLG to try and get a spot reserved. Seriously this has just gone too far and people want to cling to any argument they can to bitch and moan.
If you break the rules you should expect to get DQ'd. I will say that Comm should have been in the tournament to begin with, but it certainly doesn't justify breaking the tournaments rules and then wondering why you got disqualified...
So.. Why aren't we boycotting WCS again? Not only has this had a huge negative impact on the NA scene, it also managed to shit on the chinese scene too.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... then none of this would have happened.
If you read /r/starcraft and the overall responses on this TL thread right now, I think you'll find a lot of people agree with me. Sundance needs to get his shit together.
They did do their job. Those that registered and checked in got placed in the correct order. If you want to blame anyone, blame his team for not communicating to MLG to try and get a spot reserved. Seriously this has just gone too far and people want to cling to any argument they can to bitch and moan.
please get your facts correct before antagonising and patronising other people
On April 22 2013 10:22 .maLice. wrote: You guys are all so freaking butt hurt...
If you break the rules you should expect to get DQ'd. I will say that Comm should have been in the tournament to begin with, but it certainly doesn't justify breaking the tournaments rules and then wondering why you got disqualified...
because there is something called leniency, which was correctly applied to crank but not comm
On April 22 2013 10:22 Glurkenspurk wrote: So.. Why aren't we boycotting WCS again? Not only has this had a huge negative impact on the NA scene, it also managed to shit on the chinese scene too.
I already did, on NA. On the nice side, it further demonstrates KR>EU>>NA, not only in players, but in organization as well.
On April 22 2013 10:22 .maLice. wrote: You guys are all so freaking butt hurt...
If you break the rules you should expect to get DQ'd. I will say that Comm should have been in the tournament to begin with, but it certainly doesn't justify breaking the tournaments rules and then wondering why you got disqualified...
Nobody is wondering why he got disqualified. We all know why he got disqualified. That doesn't mean it was the right decision.
On April 22 2013 10:22 .maLice. wrote: You guys are all so freaking butt hurt...
If you break the rules you should expect to get DQ'd. I will say that Comm should have been in the tournament to begin with, but it certainly doesn't justify breaking the tournaments rules and then wondering why you got disqualified...
" Break the rules " because you got fucked over or sit out one of the 3 seasons of WCS this year, making it impossible to be in premier league until season 3.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... maybe none of this would have happened.
It is in order of registration, no league ranking. It was in the rules and huge red letters when they signed up. Map hackers don't wear signs and none of the other teams had problems getting their players into the qualifiers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chinese players signed up ASAP, were given the thumbs up by admins, re-contacted the admins when they realized they weren't in the bracket, assured by admins that the entire bracket wasn't up, and then confirmed that, no, even though they were repeatedly told by admins that nothing was wrong, they weren't actually signed up -- but by then it was too late to do anything anyways, of course.
They were assured they were in the que for the bracket if there were no shows. They BELIEVED they were fully signed in and would be in the bracket, but this was not correct.
You will see the rule that they missed that clearly states that if the bracket is filled they will not get in. There was a que if people did not check in, which they were in. However enough people checked in and they were not included in the bracket.
On April 22 2013 10:22 Glurkenspurk wrote: So.. Why aren't we boycotting WCS again? Not only has this had a huge negative impact on the NA scene, it also managed to shit on the chinese scene too.
Because it's more MLG's fault. Sure Blizzard made the collossal blunder of letting MLG host the WCS NA tournament, but we haven't seen any issues with WCS KR (Keep up the great work GSL!), and the issues with WCS EU haven't been horrendous (though any issues will now seem minor after the MLG fiasco).
On April 22 2013 10:22 .maLice. wrote: You guys are all so freaking butt hurt...
If you break the rules you should expect to get DQ'd. I will say that Comm should have been in the tournament to begin with, but it certainly doesn't justify breaking the tournaments rules and then wondering why you got disqualified...
because there is something called leniency, which was correctly applied to crank but not comm
What happened to Crank?
Seems like there's so many things going on with WCS NA it's a bit hard to follow all of the drama and happenings.
On April 22 2013 10:22 .maLice. wrote: You guys are all so freaking butt hurt...
If you break the rules you should expect to get DQ'd. I will say that Comm should have been in the tournament to begin with, but it certainly doesn't justify breaking the tournaments rules and then wondering why you got disqualified...
because there is something called leniency, which was correctly applied to crank but not comm
Yeah, one of them lied and the other one said "Yay, I won." That would be a really hard call for me.
On April 22 2013 10:22 .maLice. wrote: You guys are all so freaking butt hurt...
If you break the rules you should expect to get DQ'd. I will say that Comm should have been in the tournament to begin with, but it certainly doesn't justify breaking the tournaments rules and then wondering why you got disqualified...
because there is something called leniency, which was correctly applied to crank but not comm
What happened to Crank?
Seems like there's so many things going on with WCS NA it's a bit hard to follow all of the drama and happenings.
Crank leaked results that he qualified, but was not DQ'd for doing so.
On April 22 2013 10:22 .maLice. wrote: You guys are all so freaking butt hurt...
If you break the rules you should expect to get DQ'd. I will say that Comm should have been in the tournament to begin with, but it certainly doesn't justify breaking the tournaments rules and then wondering why you got disqualified...
because there is something called leniency, which was correctly applied to crank but not comm
Yeah, one of them lied and the other one said "Yay, I won." That would be a really hard call for me.
On April 22 2013 10:22 Glurkenspurk wrote: So.. Why aren't we boycotting WCS again? Not only has this had a huge negative impact on the NA scene, it also managed to shit on the chinese scene too.
Because it's more MLG's fault. Sure Blizzard made the collossal blunder of letting MLG host the WCS NA tournament, but we haven't seen any issues with WCS KR (Keep up the great work GSL!), and the issues with WCS EU haven't been horrendous (though any issues will now seem minor after the MLG fiasco).
Were there any issues with WCS EU at all? I can't recall anything. Maybe MLG's abysmal performance made me forget...
They were assured they were in the que for the bracket if there were no shows. They BELIEVED they were fully signed in and would be in the bracket, but this was not correct.
You will see the rule that they missed that clearly states that if the bracket is filled they will not get in. There was a que if people did not check in, which they were in. However enough people checked in and they were not included in the bracket.
Noooo. Just wrong. Stop saying this. Stop making things up about no shows and brackets being filled up.
Being told that "they were all checked in and good to go" and that the bracket was not final bracket, by the admin, it is pretty obvious that they were assured that they are in the brackets.
On April 22 2013 10:22 .maLice. wrote: You guys are all so freaking butt hurt...
If you break the rules you should expect to get DQ'd. I will say that Comm should have been in the tournament to begin with, but it certainly doesn't justify breaking the tournaments rules and then wondering why you got disqualified...
because there is something called leniency, which was correctly applied to crank but not comm
Yeah, one of them lied and the other one said "Yay, I won." That would be a really hard call for me.
If there is a rule against saying "Yay, I won" then why would he not be punished for saying it? Do you really think Comm's intentions were any more malicious than Crank's?
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... then none of this would have happened.
If you read /r/starcraft and the overall responses on this TL thread right now, I think you'll find a lot of people agree with me. Sundance needs to get his shit together.
They did do their job. Those that registered and checked in got placed in the correct order. If you want to blame anyone, blame his team for not communicating to MLG to try and get a spot reserved. Seriously this has just gone too far and people want to cling to any argument they can to bitch and moan.
You mean like this?
It's too bad that didn't seem to have worked
So this system they set up goes something like this:
Register unlimited amount of players Check in comes around and only accepts the pre authorized players plus whoever else fills out the top 512 in order of registration You can check in although you may not actually get in
Can you see how the confusion as to why Wiggin may have thought they were "checked in and good to go" happened? Maybe he just saw they were checked in and assumed they would be in the brackets. People aren't being open minded enough about how something may have accidentally happened.
On April 22 2013 10:22 .maLice. wrote: You guys are all so freaking butt hurt...
If you break the rules you should expect to get DQ'd. I will say that Comm should have been in the tournament to begin with, but it certainly doesn't justify breaking the tournaments rules and then wondering why you got disqualified...
because there is something called leniency, which was correctly applied to crank but not comm
Yeah, one of them lied and the other one said "Yay, I won." That would be a really hard call for me.
hey look, someone just jaywalked, let's fine him.
hey look, someone was speeding, let's let him go because i'm having a nice day.
On April 22 2013 10:22 Glurkenspurk wrote: So.. Why aren't we boycotting WCS again? Not only has this had a huge negative impact on the NA scene, it also managed to shit on the chinese scene too.
Because it's more MLG's fault. Sure Blizzard made the collossal blunder of letting MLG host the WCS NA tournament, but we haven't seen any issues with WCS KR (Keep up the great work GSL!), and the issues with WCS EU haven't been horrendous (though any issues will now seem minor after the MLG fiasco).
Were there any issues with WCS EU at all? I can't recall anything. Maybe MLG's abysmal performance made me forget...
They had signup issues where the time the tournament began changed suddenly. Also, without enough admins to verify claims, people were able to claim walkovers when they didn't deserve them.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... then none of this would have happened.
If you read /r/starcraft and the overall responses on this TL thread right now, I think you'll find a lot of people agree with me. Sundance needs to get his shit together.
They did do their job. Those that registered and checked in got placed in the correct order. If you want to blame anyone, blame his team for not communicating to MLG to try and get a spot reserved. Seriously this has just gone too far and people want to cling to any argument they can to bitch and moan.
You mean like this?
It's too bad that didn't seem to have worked
So this system they set up goes something like this:
Register unlimited amount of players Check in comes around and only accepts the pre authorized players plus whoever else fills out the top 512 in order of registration You can check in although you may not actually get in
Can you see how the confusion as to why Wiggin may have thought they were "checked in and good to go" happened? Maybe he just saw they were checked in and assumed they would be in the brackets. People aren't being open minded enough about how something may have accidentally happened.
if being "checked in" does not mean "being able to participate in the event" then something is completely wrong.
They were assured they were in the que for the bracket if there were no shows. They BELIEVED they were fully signed in and would be in the bracket, but this was not correct.
You will see the rule that they missed that clearly states that if the bracket is filled they will not get in. There was a que if people did not check in, which they were in. However enough people checked in and they were not included in the bracket.
Noooo. Just wrong. Stop saying this. Stop making things up about no shows and brackets being filled up.
Being told that "they were all checked in and good to go" and that the bracket was not final bracket, by the admin, it is pretty obvious that they were assured that they are in the brackets.
Yep, check in and good to go. That means check in. Read the rule, it says "check in time does not effect seeding,". They checked in, but were never going to be seeded into the event because they registered later. Over 1,000 people who signed up and only 512 got to play, but those other 488 people aren't whining about it.
On April 22 2013 09:44 nvs. wrote: Has MLG released any sort of damage control statement yet or are they just continuing to charge forward obliviously.
Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... maybe none of this would have happened.
It is in order of registration, no league ranking. It was in the rules and huge red letters when they signed up. Map hackers don't wear signs and none of the other teams had problems getting their players into the qualifiers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chinese players signed up ASAP, were given the thumbs up by admins, re-contacted the admins when they realized they weren't in the bracket, assured by admins that the entire bracket wasn't up, and then confirmed that, no, even though they were repeatedly told by admins that nothing was wrong, they weren't actually signed up -- but by then it was too late to do anything anyways, of course.
They were assured they were in the que for the bracket if there were no shows. They BELIEVED they were fully signed in and would be in the bracket, but this was not correct.
You will see the rule that they missed that clearly states that if the bracket is filled they will not get in. There was a que if people did not check in, which they were in. However enough people checked in and they were not included in the bracket.
Hmmm, didn't they register at 10 PM China time on April 20, which translates to 10 AM EDT on April 20?
EDIT: Ah, I see. I suppose they got registration and check-in mixed up? Or they weren't specific enough about what they were talking about (i.e. check-in or registration) when they were inquiring and admins probably assumed one or the other.
I think it's obvious by now that MLG can't be relied upon to effectively run anything other than a self-contained offline event. That's what they're good at. They are terrible at online events both from the broadcast and the administrative angle. So far WCS in EU and NA has been disorganized garbage.
I hope MLG and Blizzard get their well deserved bad press for backing this complete fuck up of an event so far. This is coming from someone who's happily paid a couple hundred dollars in various subscriptions for MLG events before. So long as they continue to run such an important event in such a low quality fashion they won't be getting more from me.
If you have registered for the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament, you will need to check-in prior to the start of the tournament in order to be seeded into the bracket. Failure to check-in will result in your exclusion from the Bracket, and you will not be added in after the check-in closes.
Check-in will take place Saturday, April 20th starting at 10:00 AM EDT and ending at 12:50 PM EDT. Check-in order will not influence who does, and who does not get into the bracket. The players that make the bracket will be the first 512 people based on their Registration, who have Checked-In. The bracket will not expand past 512 players. So for example, if the first 512 people that registered all check in, but their were 700 people that registered/checked in, the players 513-700 will not be seeded into the bracket.
Check in, for this purpose, only means that you are currently present and ready to play. Not that you are going to play. Yes it sucks they allowed more than 512 people to check in, but it's not like people didn't know this was a possibility...
They were assured they were in the que for the bracket if there were no shows. They BELIEVED they were fully signed in and would be in the bracket, but this was not correct.
You will see the rule that they missed that clearly states that if the bracket is filled they will not get in. There was a que if people did not check in, which they were in. However enough people checked in and they were not included in the bracket.
Noooo. Just wrong. Stop saying this. Stop making things up about no shows and brackets being filled up.
Being told that "they were all checked in and good to go" and that the bracket was not final bracket, by the admin, it is pretty obvious that they were assured that they are in the brackets.
Yep, check in and good to go. That means check in. Read the rule, it says "check in time does not effect seeding,". They checked in, but were never going to be seeded into the event because they registered later. Over 1,000 people who signed up and only 512 got to play, but those other 488 people aren't whining about it.
The obvious answer should've been "they were all checked in so far" then, not "checked in and good to go". Good to go means good to go, does not matter how much you try to twist/defend it.
MLG: OK so even though the point of this whole WCS system is to make every region equally competitive, under no circumstance can we allow a professional Chinese player to play in America quick do we have any amateurs who can soften the pool instead
On April 22 2013 09:57 Clefairy wrote: [quote] Sundance told admins that they should apologize to Comm and have him reinstated. If he's even awake that is. It's 8:56AM and he stayed up all night for this shit.
I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... then none of this would have happened.
If you read /r/starcraft and the overall responses on this TL thread right now, I think you'll find a lot of people agree with me. Sundance needs to get his shit together.
They did do their job. Those that registered and checked in got placed in the correct order. If you want to blame anyone, blame his team for not communicating to MLG to try and get a spot reserved. Seriously this has just gone too far and people want to cling to any argument they can to bitch and moan.
You mean like this?
It's too bad that didn't seem to have worked
So this system they set up goes something like this:
Register unlimited amount of players Check in comes around and only accepts the pre authorized players plus whoever else fills out the top 512 in order of registration You can check in although you may not actually get in
Can you see how the confusion as to why Wiggin may have thought they were "checked in and good to go" happened? Maybe he just saw they were checked in and assumed they would be in the brackets. People aren't being open minded enough about how something may have accidentally happened.
if being "checked in" does not mean "being able to participate in the event" then something is completely wrong.
Its not MLGs problem the team didn't read the rules before hand and realized their players had sign up so late they weren't getting into the bracket. If they had read the giant red text and checked their registration number, they would have known they weren't getting into the bracket.
They didn't read the rule and just assumed everything was ok. Then they didn't get into the bracket and made a huge thread about how they didn't understand why they were left out. Then Comm played under someone else's account, which is against the rules, and got DQed for doing that. And the whole time this is MLG's fault for not being aware the the Chinese team has signed up to late.
They were assured they were in the que for the bracket if there were no shows. They BELIEVED they were fully signed in and would be in the bracket, but this was not correct.
You will see the rule that they missed that clearly states that if the bracket is filled they will not get in. There was a que if people did not check in, which they were in. However enough people checked in and they were not included in the bracket.
Noooo. Just wrong. Stop saying this. Stop making things up about no shows and brackets being filled up.
Being told that "they were all checked in and good to go" and that the bracket was not final bracket, by the admin, it is pretty obvious that they were assured that they are in the brackets.
Yep, check in and good to go. That means check in. Read the rule, it says "check in time does not effect seeding,". They checked in, but were never going to be seeded into the event because they registered later. Over 1,000 people who signed up and only 512 got to play, but those other 488 people aren't whining about it.
The obvious answer should've been "they were all checked in so far" then, not "checked in and good to go". Good to go means good to go, does not matter how much you try to twist/defend it.
To be entirely fair, when you're IMing people, you tend to default to some very colloquial phrases even as an administrator, lol. I doubt the admin expected to have his measly half-second remark dissected for its nuances of meaning on an internet forum.
On April 22 2013 09:59 Zenbrez wrote: [quote] I think you misread that post. The poster was giving (readers) his twitter, then telling (readers) to tweet at him, demanding an apology and reinstating him. Sundance has done no such thing.
He only response has been:
"@MLGSundance rules are there for a reason." In response to people requesting Comm be let back in.
Yup, I'm not watching anything MLG related anymore. Fuck Sundance's reply.
I am sure he will miss you a lot and is really hurt that you won't watching because he enforced the rules that you can't use other peoples accounts to play.
Maybe if his admins did their fucking job and stopped seeding low leaguers and map hackers over these Chinese pros, and stopped lying to players like him that they were in the bracket... then none of this would have happened.
If you read /r/starcraft and the overall responses on this TL thread right now, I think you'll find a lot of people agree with me. Sundance needs to get his shit together.
They did do their job. Those that registered and checked in got placed in the correct order. If you want to blame anyone, blame his team for not communicating to MLG to try and get a spot reserved. Seriously this has just gone too far and people want to cling to any argument they can to bitch and moan.
You mean like this?
It's too bad that didn't seem to have worked
So this system they set up goes something like this:
Register unlimited amount of players Check in comes around and only accepts the pre authorized players plus whoever else fills out the top 512 in order of registration You can check in although you may not actually get in
Can you see how the confusion as to why Wiggin may have thought they were "checked in and good to go" happened? Maybe he just saw they were checked in and assumed they would be in the brackets. People aren't being open minded enough about how something may have accidentally happened.
if being "checked in" does not mean "being able to participate in the event" then something is completely wrong.
Its not MLGs problem the team didn't read the rules before hand and realized their players had sign up so late they weren't getting into the bracket. If they had read the giant red text and checked their registration number, they would have known they weren't getting into the bracket.
They didn't read the rule and just assumed everything was ok. Then they didn't get into the bracket and made a huge thread about how they didn't understand why they were left out. Then Comm played under someone else's account, which is against the rules, and got DQed for doing that. And the whole time this is MLG's fault for not being aware the the Chinese team has signed up to late.
As far as I can tell based on what I read on and off, they all checked in on time, but MLG didn't seed them into the brackets because they were not well liked. Instead they'd give it to random Gold leaguers.
On April 22 2013 09:24 Liquid`Zephyr wrote: i think there is a lot of critiquing that can be done about the structure of the tournament. that said, when you enter a tournament you consent to all the rules of it and i dont see how anyone can find fault with comm's dq [however ugly of a situation it is].
When the rules don't make sense and aren't flexible they have to be critiqued and changed before they cause irreversible damage. We shouldn't look at this when it's over and say 'ye that was sad, nothing to be done now though', better luck next time.
i dont think anyone is saying that the rules/structure/manpower of this tournament is even close to near ideal, but i feel like the time for that type of discussion is either before or after the tournament [hopefully before]. when you open up your tournament to rule changes mid-tournament i think it sets a bad precedent and will generally do more harm than good [barring incredibly extreme examples of which i feel this is not one].
On April 22 2013 09:54 Prplppleatr wrote: If they are going to be sticklers on the rules, then they should do that for everyone, not just when they pick and choose to follow their own rules..it makes things even more confusing and frustrating.
i agree. assuming you are refering to comm and crank being treated differently, had they committed the same offense i would be feeling the same as you. different rules having varying levels of severity and it stands to reason that breaking some of them should have more severe punishment than breaking others. would it be nice to have it laid out before hand what infractions would warrant a warning as opposed to a ban? yes and hopefully thats something that can be improved upon. i think, while comm's actions are understandable, they are much more severe than cranks and i can understand different actions vs each player respectively. that said, had crank also been disqualified, while i would think it's asinine, i think they would still be within their rights to do so.
MLG to a reasonable reason~ Hello everyone, first of all, I would like to ask the MLG,What is the place of race？What is Anonymous race？ After If FruitsBasket qualify is mylady to codes,it's the place of race。if FruitsBasket qualify is Comm to codes,it's Anonymous race。MLG provisions can not be anonymous competition?If not, please restore comm game rights
They were assured they were in the que for the bracket if there were no shows. They BELIEVED they were fully signed in and would be in the bracket, but this was not correct.
You will see the rule that they missed that clearly states that if the bracket is filled they will not get in. There was a que if people did not check in, which they were in. However enough people checked in and they were not included in the bracket.
Noooo. Just wrong. Stop saying this. Stop making things up about no shows and brackets being filled up.
Being told that "they were all checked in and good to go" and that the bracket was not final bracket, by the admin, it is pretty obvious that they were assured that they are in the brackets.
Yep, check in and good to go. That means check in. Read the rule, it says "check in time does not effect seeding,". They checked in, but were never going to be seeded into the event because they registered later. Over 1,000 people who signed up and only 512 got to play, but those other 488 people aren't whining about it.
The obvious answer should've been "they were all checked in so far" then, not "checked in and good to go". Good to go means good to go, does not matter how much you try to twist/defend it.
To be entirely fair, when you're IMing people, you tend to default to some very colloquial phrases even as an administrator, lol. I doubt the admin expected to have his measly half-second remark dissected for its nuances of meaning on an internet forum.
There's nothing to dissect. It's two different things, why would you add it? "You're just checked in so far" means no luck so far, which would be the right answer. Good to go implies something entirely different. I entirely understand how someone (not native english speaker even) could get confused about that.
Also, there's nothing wrong with being colloquial (btw i had to google that -.-) - you just have to be clear, and the admin was not.
On April 22 2013 09:24 Liquid`Zephyr wrote: i think there is a lot of critiquing that can be done about the structure of the tournament. that said, when you enter a tournament you consent to all the rules of it and i dont see how anyone can find fault with comm's dq [however ugly of a situation it is].
When the rules don't make sense and aren't flexible they have to be critiqued and changed before they cause irreversible damage. We shouldn't look at this when it's over and say 'ye that was sad, nothing to be done now though', better luck next time.
i dont think anyone is saying that the rules/structure/manpower of this tournament is even close to near ideal, but i feel like the time for that type of discussion is either before or after the tournament [hopefully before]. when you open up your tournament to rule changes mid-tournament i think it sets a bad precedent and will generally do more harm than good [barring incredibly extreme examples of which i feel this is not one].
On April 22 2013 09:54 Prplppleatr wrote: If they are going to be sticklers on the rules, then they should do that for everyone, not just when they pick and choose to follow their own rules..it makes things even more confusing and frustrating.
i agree. assuming you are refering to comm and crank being treated differently, had they committed the same offense i would be feeling the same as you. different rules having varying levels of severity and it stands to reason that breaking some of them should have more severe punishment than breaking others. would it be nice to have it laid out before hand what infractions would warrant a warning as opposed to a ban? yes and hopefully thats something that can be improved upon. i think, while comm's actions are understandable, they are much more severe than cranks and i can understand different actions vs each player respectively. that said, had crank also been disqualified, while i would think it's asinine, i think they would still be within their rights to do so.
I agree as well, and they specifically state that spoiling the results may result in a dq...It is something they must improve upon. But if they are being lenient, be lenient. Comm played the matches as himself and never tried to hide that it was him (ie. he openly said he was comm and wasn't trying to smurf). He earned his way to the position he was in, he won those games. It wasn't cheating or hacking or anything of that severity. He was simply using another persons account on MLGs website. That, to me, is the same severity as cranks infraction, given how clear they made that results weren't to be spoiled. (they said it many times in many places..it was very clear)
On April 22 2013 10:45 geokilla wrote: What happened with Axiom Crank?
nothing some people said CranK should be DQ since he tweeted about his victory and it was against the rules BUT MLG brackets was spoiling everything way before CranK tweeted, (yesterday) just some peoples trying to start more drama.
They were assured they were in the que for the bracket if there were no shows. They BELIEVED they were fully signed in and would be in the bracket, but this was not correct.
You will see the rule that they missed that clearly states that if the bracket is filled they will not get in. There was a que if people did not check in, which they were in. However enough people checked in and they were not included in the bracket.
Noooo. Just wrong. Stop saying this. Stop making things up about no shows and brackets being filled up.
Being told that "they were all checked in and good to go" and that the bracket was not final bracket, by the admin, it is pretty obvious that they were assured that they are in the brackets.
Yep, check in and good to go. That means check in. Read the rule, it says "check in time does not effect seeding,". They checked in, but were never going to be seeded into the event because they registered later. Over 1,000 people who signed up and only 512 got to play, but those other 488 people aren't whining about it.
The obvious answer should've been "they were all checked in so far" then, not "checked in and good to go". Good to go means good to go, does not matter how much you try to twist/defend it.
To be entirely fair, when you're IMing people, you tend to default to some very colloquial phrases even as an administrator, lol. I doubt the admin expected to have his measly half-second remark dissected for its nuances of meaning on an internet forum.
There's nothing to dissect. It's two different things, why would you add it? "You're just checked in so far" means no luck so far, which would be the right answer. Good to go implies something entirely different. I entirely understand how someone (not native english speaker even) could get confused about that.
Also, there's nothing wrong with being colloquial (btw i had to google that -.-) - you just have to be clear, and the admin was not.
Even if he was clear, they won't have been put into the bracket and they couldn't do anything about it at that point. The fact that they thought they were fine even though their players registered to late to be seeded(not checked in, registered) shows they were completely unaware of the rule or how seeding worked.
1. Comm and co. all register by 10 PM China time (= 10:00 AM EDT) on April 20. Many of them have allegedly registered ASAP, but exact dates are not given. [Source]
2. Check-in begins @ 10 AM EDT on Saturday, April 20th and runs to 12:50 PM EDT on Saturday, April 20th. [Rules]
3. They contact Admin Wiggin at 22:17 China time (= 10:17 AM) to check-in on April 20 and are told by Wiggin, "They are all checked in and good to go." [Source]
4. However, apparently, more than 512 players registered before the Chinese players did. These 512+ players also checked-in by the required time (though probably even later than Comm and co.), but MLG's rules do not take check-in order into account when determining seeding priority. They use registration order instead.
Because Comm and co. likely registered after at least 512 other players, they were not seeded into the brackets. They did in fact check in (so Wiggins was right in confirming that they had checked in), but their initial registration was too late, and the other early birds got the worm.
They were assured they were in the que for the bracket if there were no shows. They BELIEVED they were fully signed in and would be in the bracket, but this was not correct.
You will see the rule that they missed that clearly states that if the bracket is filled they will not get in. There was a que if people did not check in, which they were in. However enough people checked in and they were not included in the bracket.
Noooo. Just wrong. Stop saying this. Stop making things up about no shows and brackets being filled up.
Being told that "they were all checked in and good to go" and that the bracket was not final bracket, by the admin, it is pretty obvious that they were assured that they are in the brackets.
Yep, check in and good to go. That means check in. Read the rule, it says "check in time does not effect seeding,". They checked in, but were never going to be seeded into the event because they registered later. Over 1,000 people who signed up and only 512 got to play, but those other 488 people aren't whining about it.
The obvious answer should've been "they were all checked in so far" then, not "checked in and good to go". Good to go means good to go, does not matter how much you try to twist/defend it.
To be entirely fair, when you're IMing people, you tend to default to some very colloquial phrases even as an administrator, lol. I doubt the admin expected to have his measly half-second remark dissected for its nuances of meaning on an internet forum.
There's nothing to dissect. It's two different things, why would you add it? "You're just checked in so far" means no luck so far, which would be the right answer. Good to go implies something entirely different. I entirely understand how someone (not native english speaker even) could get confused about that.
Also, there's nothing wrong with being colloquial (btw i had to google that -.-) - you just have to be clear, and the admin was not.
Even if he was clear, they won't have been put into the bracket and they couldn't do anything about it at that point. The fact that they thought they were fine even though their players registered to late to be seeded(not checked in, registered) shows they were completely unaware of the rule or how seeding worked.
Well, reading in one of the other threads what seems to happen with quantic right now, .. I'm fairly sceptical now. Lets see how the hwangsin-thing plays out now. I just hope that someone has a screenshot, and i'm actually hoping for this to be a hoax. If not, there's no reason to believe that they did not make it in time but MLG just decided to not let them play.
Speculation of course, let's just wait for now.
Edit: but of course i can't wait for your defense on that one. Especially if that turns out to be true.
There is nothing to defend MLG's failures, i'll boycott WCS-NA and every MLG product until they get it right. Dunno if Blizzard is even aware of the fuckup that MLG did at this point, but they will know it in some time for sure. I'm quite interested if they will make a move or put some pressure on mlg for upcoming events.
WCS locks u for the whole year and with the whole system works in giving Points and so on to being able to get to the season finals, this is just total bullshit. Chinese players, or any other Proplayer who didnt got in, got totally screwed cause they are not able (not even given a chance!!!) to get into Premier League, where it would matter for this year. And who knows how MLG does decide the WCS-Challenger league at this moment..... It is by no means right that diamond or lower tier players get into the bracket over a WCS-China winner from last year or any other pro gamer that also signed up (these players and teams need the chances/exposure from WCS to live from it.. not like some hobbyplayers that just sigend up for fun maybe playing 1 round against a famous player but never had a real chance at all!!!!). Some Proplayers who were more well known in the NA scene but never really accomplished anything at a WCS event a year before or at offline events somehow got into the bracaket seeded or with no problems whatsoever. This is truly a disgrace for the esports scene and sc2 for becoming a more established esport. I cant see how u will get new viewers into this, when u show how amateurish it is run and admins decide which people they "like" and "dont like", so they pick more unknown silver-diamand NA player over some accomplished Pro who is no American. Same thing happened to Demuslin in some way, but cause he had EG behind him (big American team) MLG had to react in a timely fashion and atleast guaranteed him a spot in the qualifier.
Blizzard made it clear that WCS (NA-EU-KR) does not mean that u have to live to play in it. U just had to decide for the upcoming year where u want to play in and be able to be physically present at the later stages. So there should be 0 tolerance to why american pro players somehow got seeded into qualifier bracket but some established non american didn't. Also casting from replays and stretching this qualifier awfully longer and also trying to witholding information about brackets now, it just seems MLG wants to make the most money they can as long sc2 is well known and Blizzard supports it. They doesnt seem to be interested in the growth of esports/sc2 at this time.
On April 22 2013 09:24 Liquid`Zephyr wrote: i think there is a lot of critiquing that can be done about the structure of the tournament. that said, when you enter a tournament you consent to all the rules of it and i dont see how anyone can find fault with comm's dq [however ugly of a situation it is].
On April 22 2013 09:24 Liquid`Zephyr wrote: i think there is a lot of critiquing that can be done about the structure of the tournament. that said, when you enter a tournament you consent to all the rules of it and i dont see how anyone can find fault with comm's dq [however ugly of a situation it is].
Are you fucking serious?..
He's right too, Comm broke the rules, even in spite of the shitty structure of the tourney, he still broke a very important rule. You can't expect MLG to not DQ him after he basically smurfed on someone else's account.
The problem is that MLG let that go until loser's finals which is a joke in itself. Just a complete mess of a situation, but MLG for once in this entire debacle of a WCS is not at fault with the DQ decision. Zephyr's right and so is MLG in this regards.
Do not confuse the rest of incompetent TO-ing with this decision. It's two entirely different situations albeit one directly leading to the other, but not the same thing.
On April 22 2013 09:24 Liquid`Zephyr wrote: i think there is a lot of critiquing that can be done about the structure of the tournament. that said, when you enter a tournament you consent to all the rules of it and i dont see how anyone can find fault with comm's dq [however ugly of a situation it is].
Are you fucking serious?..
He's right too, Comm broke the rules, even in spite of the shitty structure of the tourney, he still broke a very important rule. You can't expect MLG to not DQ him after he basically smurfed on someone else's account.
The problem is that MLG let that go until loser's finals which is a joke in itself. Just a complete mess of a situation, but MLG for once in this entire debacle of a WCS is not at fault with the DQ decision. Zephyr's right and so is MLG in this regards.
Do not confuse the rest of incompetent TO-ing with this decision. It's two entirely different situations albeit one directly leading to the other, but not the same thing.
Well according to MLG rules, the DQ is not automatic (http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/pc/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty/tournament/wcs-america-season-1-qualifyin/rules). What Comm did may have him DQ or not. The admins could have done differently.
On April 22 2013 11:00 DanLee wrote: I hope I'm not the first to realize this is simply kespa paying MLG to make sure only koreans win WCS. Come on people, use your common sense.
There is not enough tin foil in the known universe to sustain your needs...
So yea, Comm broke the rules. What I find more interesting is that Blizzard's system for setting up their new WCS has been exposed for the crap it is, and they still haven't moved to fix this crap. It appears that they are just going to let MLG do what they do and continue on. I don't know how anyone could be excited for this WCS any more. I was extremely excited about this new version of WCS because I've thought for a long time that Blizzard needs to step up and make the most prestigious world tourney ever for the best RTS ever. I'm not so sure about it any more with all the stories I keep hearing, such as the debacle of people not being given the time they were promised to choose where they would play. I didn't think a world tourney would be such a massive undertaking that Blizzard couldn't get it right in one shot. However, the fact that the whole tourney is first come, first serve after their slotted favorites just seems ridiculous.
On April 22 2013 11:00 DanLee wrote: I hope I'm not the first to realize this is simply kespa paying MLG to make sure only koreans win WCS. Come on people, use your common sense.
There is not enough tin foil in the known universe to sustain your needs...
As others have said. He broke the rules and did deserve to be DQ. However....I do agree that the first come first serve with a cap of 512 is a horrible choice, especially when it's not truly region locked.....
Who cares the fucking rules ?? No harm has been done ... this is just bullshit just fucking bullshit.. Imagine it would have been flash, they would never have DQ him for this, just dare say they would have..
On April 22 2013 08:36 HereBeDragons wrote: Compare it to ESL: WCS EU qualifiers check-ins on day3 lasted for 65 seconds. Many players missed it including Shuttle. Teamliquid voluteers gave up their spots so that Shuttle could play.
Yeah I agree. Isn't this almost the same thing as Shuttle almost not being able to play (he only got to play due to someone giving up a spot for him)?
The only difference is this wasn't done officially and a player just did it and let them use their account to play.
On April 22 2013 08:36 HereBeDragons wrote: Compare it to ESL: WCS EU qualifiers check-ins on day3 lasted for 65 seconds. Many players missed it including Shuttle. Teamliquid voluteers gave up their spots so that Shuttle could play.
Yeah I agree. Isn't this almost the same thing as Shuttle almost not being able to play (he only got to play due to someone giving up a spot for him)?
The only difference is this wasn't done officially and a player just did it and let them use their account to play.
Its the problem with open qualifiers with no risk. They fill up with people who may not be taking the event seriously. I really hope the next WCS doesn't have them and has some kind of fee, even if its $5. It will cut out a ton of this shit in both EU and NA.
Does anyone know if Comm told each of his opponents beforehand that he was Comm and not Fruitsbasket? If Comm told each of his opponents beforehand, then it think it would be fine since there's really no difference with who's account you play on. On the other hand, if Comm didn't tell them, then he has a distinct advantage. Players play differently depending on their opponent, especially since Comm is fairly popular and a lot of pros knows his style. In this case, I would leave it up to the players that Comm knocked out to decide if he should be DQed.
On April 22 2013 11:44 Chairman Ray wrote: Does anyone know if Comm told each of his opponents beforehand that he was Comm and not Fruitsbasket? If Comm told each of his opponents beforehand, then it think it would be fine since there's really no difference with who's account you play on. On the other hand, if Comm didn't tell them, then he has a distinct advantage. Players play differently depending on their opponent, especially since Comm is fairly popular and a lot of pros knows his style. In this case, I would leave it up to the players that Comm knocked out to decide if he should be DQed.
I personally want to apologize to Invictus Gaming for what happened to them. I belong to America, just like MLG. I would have made an extremely valuable asset to their organization if they would have just listened to me.
On April 22 2013 11:47 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Caliber just lost to a better player than him and I am pretty sure that he accepts it and doesn't complain about the situation.
yeah he didnt complain at all. He just said the guy was good and thought it was Comm and corrected us on saying that it was a zerg since whoever did liquipedia had fruitsbasket listed as a protoss. (fruitsbasket is always a zerg though if you look up his bnet profile so idk why he was listed as protoss. it's not like opponents would be tricked into thinking they were facing a protoss or anything)
On April 22 2013 11:44 Chairman Ray wrote: Does anyone know if Comm told each of his opponents beforehand that he was Comm and not Fruitsbasket? If Comm told each of his opponents beforehand, then it think it would be fine since there's really no difference with who's account you play on. On the other hand, if Comm didn't tell them, then he has a distinct advantage. Players play differently depending on their opponent, especially since Comm is fairly popular and a lot of pros knows his style. In this case, I would leave it up to the players that Comm knocked out to decide if he should be DQed.
Ty, I can definitely see a legitimate reason for him to be DQed then. At the same time, I hope MLG can find a way to reinstate him as an exception. I know that China has a very large and very passionate sc2 community, but they've only got a small handful of players that could possibly win the qualifiers. Comm being able to play would make the WCS so much better.
Can't say I agree with the decision here, but I'm still disappointed that there never was a chance of a player with the ID "FruitsBasket" competing in Premier.
I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
I don't know how MLG is supposed to fix that problem. They can't teach people to read a language just to make sure they understand the rules.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
This is an American (North and South) tournament, so they should be written in the most common languages in that region (English and Spanish. Maybe Portuguese and French)
it's completely retarded to say, chinese players didn't read the rules, when your rules are not internationalized and the check-in time registration is obviously unfair because for some people in east asia and australia this means early in the morning and god knows what hectic scheduling, while twitch.tv platinum players are clicking away on the site.
but mlg's inexperience/mishandling of a non-NA exclusive tournament isn't that surprising. they had little time to prepare and organize. this does make blizzard's lack of any plan for non-korea asia and australia players all the worse.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
To be fair, smurfing isn't a rule specific to MLG. It's a rule that's been around in Starcraft tournaments since early broodwar, and even without knowing this, it should be obvious anyways. It gives too big an advantage in a game where players play according to the opponents strengths, weaknesses, and playstyle. What Comm needed to do was inform each of his opponents beforehand.
I'm pretty sure Comm just wanted to play in the tournament, and it was not his intention to gain any advantage through smurfing, so I hope they can find a way to reinstate him.
On April 22 2013 12:11 oneofthem wrote: it's completely retarded to say, chinese players didn't read the rules, when your rules are not internationalized and the check-in time registration is obviously unfair because for some people in east asia and australia this means early in the morning and god knows what hectic scheduling, while twitch.tv platinum players are clicking away on the site.
but mlg's inexperience/mishandling of a non-NA exclusive tournament isn't that surprising. they had little time to prepare and organize. this does make blizzard's lack of any plan for non-korea asia and australia players all the worse.
All players outside of the Americas were told that if they wanted to play, they would have to deal with the problems associated with doing so. Which meant shitty times, rules not in their native language, etc.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
This is an American (North and South) tournament, so they should be written in the most common languages in that region (English and Spanish. Maybe Portuguese and French)
Ehhh. You should attempt to translate for your intended market if you want to run a good business. So not English and Spanish, but rather English and Korean (at the very least) and Chinese if possible.
One of the apartment complexes here has their websites in English, Chinese, and Korean, because lots of Asian internationals tend to rent rooms there. :/
On April 22 2013 12:11 oneofthem wrote: it's completely retarded to say, chinese players didn't read the rules, when your rules are not internationalized and the check-in time registration is obviously unfair because for some people in east asia and australia this means early in the morning and god knows what hectic scheduling, while twitch.tv platinum players are clicking away on the site.
but mlg's inexperience/mishandling of a non-NA exclusive tournament isn't that surprising. they had little time to prepare and organize. this does make blizzard's lack of any plan for non-korea asia and australia players all the worse.
All players outside of the Americas were told that if they wanted to play, they would have to deal with the problems associated with doing so. Which meant shitty times, rules not in their native language, etc.
That and the Korean players had no problems and made it through, even without sleep. Crank made it through without sleeping for 30 hours.
Limiting the number of participants and letting chance (first come first serve) decide who gets in is completely unacceptable. It was also an issue with WCS EU, even if they had at least one day with fully open bracket. But here there won't be even one such opportunity. So bad. It destroys the legitimacy of the whole event. It's not a competition, it's a green card lottery + competition.
From a viewer's perspective it's a loss too - I, for one, wanted to see some top Chinese players competing alongside the NA best and the Koreans.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
This is an American (North and South) tournament, so they should be written in the most common languages in that region (English and Spanish. Maybe Portuguese and French)
Ehhh. You should attempt to translate for your intended market if you want to run a good business. So not English and Spanish, but rather English and Korean (at the very least) and Chinese if possible.
One of the apartment complexes here has their websites in English, Chinese, and Korean, because lots of Asian internationals tend to rent rooms there. :/
Yes, they should try to have as many translations of the rules as possible, but if they don't, you can't blame them for not doing so.
Some in the Chinese SC2 community is already talking about boycotting MLG and if need be the entire WCS community. Stuff like this is NOT good for the advancement of e-sports.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
To be fair, smurfing isn't a rule specific to MLG. It's a rule that's been around in Starcraft tournaments since early broodwar, and even without knowing this, it should be obvious anyways. It gives too big an advantage in a game where players play according to the opponents strengths, weaknesses, and playstyle. What Comm needed to do was inform each of his opponents beforehand.
I'm pretty sure Comm just wanted to play in the tournament, and it was not his intention to gain any advantage through smurfing, so I hope they can find a way to reinstate him.
Well Comm did tell all his opponents who he was... he was very open about it.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
To be fair, smurfing isn't a rule specific to MLG. It's a rule that's been around in Starcraft tournaments since early broodwar, and even without knowing this, it should be obvious anyways. It gives too big an advantage in a game where players play according to the opponents strengths, weaknesses, and playstyle. What Comm needed to do was inform each of his opponents beforehand.
I'm pretty sure Comm just wanted to play in the tournament, and it was not his intention to gain any advantage through smurfing, so I hope they can find a way to reinstate him.
Well Comm did tell all his opponents who he was... he was very open about it.
Did he? I asked this on the last page, and apparently Caliber was unaware that he was playing against Comm. I think this is a very important distinction because if he told his opponents directly in advanced of their match, he should not be disqualified.
You know .... China's SC2 community is already very small compare to SC1 community we had. Whenever I go to a net cafe in China, there are always millions of people playing League of Legends, and no one play SC2. I think Net Ease, the company who runs SC2 in China isn't making much profit. I think Blizzard is just letting go of the Chinese market at this point, at least they made me believe so :S. Going to play final fantasy 14.
I had been a blizzard hardcore fan since 1998, they are no longer my "to go" company for games.
Blizzard really have chosen some idiotic partners in China. How the hell can you have starcraft 2 as a subscription based game. That's just really LOL. They only changed to one time payment after they can't make any money. Now all those who would've played SC2 are all gone and playing LoL.
On April 22 2013 12:40 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: This whole situation should have never happened because of the 512 player cap. C'mon MLG, what are you doing...
[Edit] updated with the whole check-in confusion
According to CatZ, they're going to be having another qualifier. If that does happen, hopefully they would be kind enough to seed the players who weren't able to make it into this weekends bracket first.
On April 22 2013 12:40 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: This whole situation should have never happened because of the 512 player cap. C'mon MLG, what are you doing...
[Edit] updated with the whole check-in confusion
According to CatZ, they're going to be having another 512 player bracket. If that does happen, hopefully they would be kind enough to seed the players who weren't able to make it into this weekends bracket first.
On April 22 2013 12:40 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: This whole situation should have never happened because of the 512 player cap. C'mon MLG, what are you doing...
[Edit] updated with the whole check-in confusion
According to CatZ, they're going to be having another 512 player bracket. If that does happen, hopefully they would be kind enough to seed the players who weren't able to make it into this weekends bracket first.
The other 512 player bracket has to be for Challenger League (Code A). There's already 8 qualified and 24 invites for Premier League, for a round of 32.
On April 22 2013 12:40 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: This whole situation should have never happened because of the 512 player cap. C'mon MLG, what are you doing...
[Edit] updated with the whole check-in confusion
According to CatZ, they're going to be having another 512 player bracket. If that does happen, hopefully they would be kind enough to seed the players who weren't able to make it into this weekends bracket first.
Where did he say that?
"apparently there's another 'Code A' qualifier at an unanounced date, hopefully there's proper seeding / more than 1 tour to account for lame"
"Double NVM, I am really confused, but I think 2nd qualifier's invitees are based off this qualifier (top 40) so nvm, fuck me, #confused"
I didn't see the second tweet until now, but still, if they do have another qualifier, hopefully it will be just more than the top 40.
Such a bad decision for MLG. Just expand the brackets if there is interest. This is like lottery, not like a championship. I agree that NASL should have been in charge, not MLG.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
To be fair, smurfing isn't a rule specific to MLG. It's a rule that's been around in Starcraft tournaments since early broodwar, and even without knowing this, it should be obvious anyways. It gives too big an advantage in a game where players play according to the opponents strengths, weaknesses, and playstyle. What Comm needed to do was inform each of his opponents beforehand.
I'm pretty sure Comm just wanted to play in the tournament, and it was not his intention to gain any advantage through smurfing, so I hope they can find a way to reinstate him.
Well Comm did tell all his opponents who he was... he was very open about it.
Did he? I asked this on the last page, and apparently Caliber was unaware that he was playing against Comm. I think this is a very important distinction because if he told his opponents directly in advanced of their match, he should not be disqualified.
I'm not too sure because I didn't really follow the LR threads, but did the other players who used a smurf reveal who they were to their opponents? If so, then the smurfing isn't really the issue here.
The thing is that if they allow stuff like that to go through, players might do multiple sign-ups (Not sure what they could do it for) and logistically it becomes a huge mess for MLG to deal with
If there is indeed a new bracket to be announced, it should not be "another 512 player bracket". It should be - like the last EU qualifier - a fully open "whatever size needed" bracket.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
To be fair, smurfing isn't a rule specific to MLG. It's a rule that's been around in Starcraft tournaments since early broodwar, and even without knowing this, it should be obvious anyways. It gives too big an advantage in a game where players play according to the opponents strengths, weaknesses, and playstyle. What Comm needed to do was inform each of his opponents beforehand.
I'm pretty sure Comm just wanted to play in the tournament, and it was not his intention to gain any advantage through smurfing, so I hope they can find a way to reinstate him.
Well Comm did tell all his opponents who he was... he was very open about it.
Did he? I asked this on the last page, and apparently Caliber was unaware that he was playing against Comm. I think this is a very important distinction because if he told his opponents directly in advanced of their match, he should not be disqualified.
I'm not too sure because I didn't really follow the LR threads, but did the other players who used a smurf reveal who they were to their opponents? If so, then the smurfing isn't really the issue here.
The thing is that if they allow stuff like that to go through, players might do multiple sign-ups (Not sure what they could do it for) and logistically it becomes a huge mess for MLG to deal with
It wasn't that he was smurfing on his own account. He used another players account to play. The real FruitsBaskets saw that Comm didn't make it into the bracket and in private conversation told Comm that he could take his spot and account and play. Then neither player told anyone that they did this, and he was DQ'd.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
To be fair, smurfing isn't a rule specific to MLG. It's a rule that's been around in Starcraft tournaments since early broodwar, and even without knowing this, it should be obvious anyways. It gives too big an advantage in a game where players play according to the opponents strengths, weaknesses, and playstyle. What Comm needed to do was inform each of his opponents beforehand.
I'm pretty sure Comm just wanted to play in the tournament, and it was not his intention to gain any advantage through smurfing, so I hope they can find a way to reinstate him.
Well Comm did tell all his opponents who he was... he was very open about it.
Did he? I asked this on the last page, and apparently Caliber was unaware that he was playing against Comm. I think this is a very important distinction because if he told his opponents directly in advanced of their match, he should not be disqualified.
I'm not too sure because I didn't really follow the LR threads, but did the other players who used a smurf reveal who they were to their opponents? If so, then the smurfing isn't really the issue here.
The thing is that if they allow stuff like that to go through, players might do multiple sign-ups (Not sure what they could do it for) and logistically it becomes a huge mess for MLG to deal with
It wasn't that he was smurfing on his own account. He used another players account to play. The real FruitsBaskets saw that Comm didn't make it into the bracket and in private conversation told Comm that he could take his spot and account and play. Then neither player told anyone that they did this, and he was DQ'd.
What a joke, neither player told anyone? how do you know it? Comm public the infomation and got banned, you got banned because you are the honest man.
On April 22 2013 12:00 Ercster wrote: I really like how a lot of people are complaining about MLG for this, yet their rules, which the players should have read beforehand, clearly state that it's not okay to account share. If FruitsBaskets were to have asked the MLG admins if he could give his seed to Comm instead, they might have okay'd it and he would still be in. But since they didn't even say anything to either the players he played against or the staff, he deserved the dq.
Maybe comm doesn't speak english..
Not MLG or Blizzards fault. If they can't read the rules, then they need to say something and get help.
You're right, but to play devils advocate the rules should be available in a few different languages. This is an international competition.
To be fair, smurfing isn't a rule specific to MLG. It's a rule that's been around in Starcraft tournaments since early broodwar, and even without knowing this, it should be obvious anyways. It gives too big an advantage in a game where players play according to the opponents strengths, weaknesses, and playstyle. What Comm needed to do was inform each of his opponents beforehand.
I'm pretty sure Comm just wanted to play in the tournament, and it was not his intention to gain any advantage through smurfing, so I hope they can find a way to reinstate him.
Well Comm did tell all his opponents who he was... he was very open about it.
Did he? I asked this on the last page, and apparently Caliber was unaware that he was playing against Comm. I think this is a very important distinction because if he told his opponents directly in advanced of their match, he should not be disqualified.
I'm not too sure because I didn't really follow the LR threads, but did the other players who used a smurf reveal who they were to their opponents? If so, then the smurfing isn't really the issue here.
The thing is that if they allow stuff like that to go through, players might do multiple sign-ups (Not sure what they could do it for) and logistically it becomes a huge mess for MLG to deal with
It wasn't that he was smurfing on his own account. He used another players account to play. The real FruitsBaskets saw that Comm didn't make it into the bracket and in private conversation told Comm that he could take his spot and account and play. Then neither player told anyone that they did this, and he was DQ'd.
What a joke, neither player told anyone? how do you know it? Comm public the infomation and got banned, you got banned because you are the honest man.
Did he tell them before he started playing? As far as I know, he didn't. It wasn't until after he started playing that he said he was using FruitsBaskets account. Caliber even made mention that he didn't know it was Comm when he was playing him.
stop blaming MLG, this wouldn't be allowed in korea as well. from a rules standpoint it's not exactly right to have flash getting into the booth under the assumed ID of jaedong, for example.
Comm should have been banned because of his smurfing, but he shouldn't have had to smurf because MLG should have been a competent tournament host. MLG has been doing better lately, but they fucked up again. Seems they really should have let NASL handle the online qualifiers...
I was really looking forward to seeing the rise of Chinese SC2 players in 2013, but MLG is really trying to stump that right now. It's pretty sad to see.
On April 22 2013 13:14 foxmulder_ms wrote: Everyone knew it was comm, it was written as comm since the start on liquipedia.... what a joke! MLG you suck.
Actually, it was written as FruitBaskets throughout the whole tournament. Every time I checked the brackets that's how it was listed at least, and that was up until the last few rounds before I had to step out.
On April 22 2013 13:13 shadymmj wrote: stop blaming MLG, this wouldn't be allowed in korea as well. from a rules standpoint it's not exactly right to have flash getting into the booth under the assumed ID of jaedong, for example.
The problem is bad tournament design that doesn't allow all willing participants to get in the tournament. That's just horrible.
Also, I don't even think the main problem is people didn't know who he was. The main problem is he was not even registered for this bracket. You have to be registered in some event to be eligible to win it.
I think this is a joke. Rules are made to be flexible for exceptions just like this one. They are specifically worded using the word "may" in order to respect the judgement of admins and the peculiarity of specific instances. I'm not sure what MLG generally or whatever admin it was who made this call specifically were thinking when they DQ'd Comm.
That said, wouldn't theSTC have been rather the heavy favorite going into their matchup?
On April 22 2013 13:27 Oreo7 wrote: I think this is a joke. Rules are made to be flexible for exceptions just like this one. They are specifically worded using the word "may" in order to respect the judgement of admins and the peculiarity of specific instances. I'm not sure what MLG generally or whatever admin it was who made this call specifically were thinking when they DQ'd Comm.
That said, wouldn't theSTC have rather heavy favorite going into their matchup?
TheStC already beat Comm. Comm was DQ'd after falling to the losers' bracket where he would have faced Apocalypse. I think he would have had a decent shot at making it.
On April 22 2013 13:13 shadymmj wrote: stop blaming MLG, this wouldn't be allowed in korea as well. from a rules standpoint it's not exactly right to have flash getting into the booth under the assumed ID of jaedong, for example.
He made it clear that he was comm to every player he played. But more importantly, Comm wouldn't have had to do this in the first place if he was able to secure a spot in the tournament.
I know that the WCS is going to have growing pains, but this is absurd. The fact that WCS EU qualifiers were pulled off well shows that the NA could've been just as good. MLG needs to step up its game.
the only reason he had to resort to smurfing was because the qualifiers were so poorly thought out and executed. if you are going to do a single small qualifying bracket, which i think is silly, you should do it right and make sure pro's don't end up in this situation. they brought this upon themselves and i see this as a major failure which only hurts the game as a whole and is due to incompetence more than anything. poor guy gets his dreams crushed due to retardation and all some people can say are rules be rules. hopefully something magical can happen, not feeling too optimistic though.
On April 22 2013 13:35 shadymmj wrote: So your response to bad tournament organisation is to break the rules, is that what you mean? :/
The other guy was Comm's mentor. He wanted to give up his spot to his teacher so he could play instead. Comm wasn't maliciously trying to trick anyone. The player who had the spot wanted to give it up to help with the problem of bad tournament organization. This is clearly NOT the type of situation the rule was made for. The rules were not made with bad tournament organization in mind.
The principles behind why the rule was made do not really apply to the situation at hand, which is the reason why people are irritated. Thus we see the intrinsic problem with rules, they are too ridged sometimes. Whereas they may be made to address one issue, they have an other negative consequences due to their inflexibility and inability to adapt to new situations.
That being said, they need to follow their rules. Allowing an exception here will lead to further rule-breaking in the future. Especially when it comes to smurfing.... otherwise you could lead to future issues
For example, a pro could register two smurfs (and no main account), play under both, and then use the one that got further, pretending that the one that did more poorly was a random nobody.
Also it's not like reinstating him would sully the sanctity of the tournament, since there was a hacker in there aswell as Hyun somehow managing to knock multiple people out before someone realised, oh shit, he played in the GSL last week.
On April 22 2013 13:50 bongling wrote: Also it's not like reinstating him would sully the sanctity of the tournament, since there was a hacker in there aswell as Hyun somehow managing to knock multiple people out before someone realised, oh shit, he played in the GSL last week.
The Hyun fiasco is perhaps the more embarrassing mistake they made. =X
On April 22 2013 13:52 Kyir wrote: Thanks for making our entire regional scene look even worse MLG. Really appreciate it.
lol so dramatic. Some Chinese players didn't get to play...do I care? Not really. It's just one video game tournament. Life will go on.
You don't. A lot of others do. Not to mention hordes of Chinese people.
This is a SHOCK to national pride in China. 27,500 people watched the NeoTV Star League. This took 2 weeks before the NASL in December 2012, and they only climaxed at 35,000 viewers at the time. I can't even begin to pull numbers together for the Battle.net World Championships in Shanghai for 2012.
On April 22 2013 13:52 Kyir wrote: Thanks for making our entire regional scene look even worse MLG. Really appreciate it.
lol so dramatic. Some Chinese players didn't get to play...do I care? Not really. It's just one video game tournament. Life will go on.
That's your second comment with "didn't get to play" + "lol China ppl who cares about them?!". First of all, they DID get to play, so that's not the issue. The issue is your beloved US tournament was hard limited to 512 players and there were more candidates, so it became "the first who registered got in, the rest - better luck next time", which is a complete joke and has nothing to do with skill in Starcraft or what country you are from.
You only hear about these Chinese players because they are famous enough, but you can bet many US players who are not as famous also got snubbed out of the bracket, because they weren't lucky enough to be among the first 512 registered.
WCS NA has just been a huge let down. Really disappointed So many things have gone wrong, I hope they seriously look at how poorly this went in order to not make the same mistakes twice.
Of course we could attempt a boycott, but I doubt anybody would actually do it. Too afraid to lose their precious entertainment from the rest of the qualifiers etc? Won't happen, but it'd be nice.
you know something is wrong when the first rounds of your tournament are "who can register the fastest". they could at least have had a restriction to masters players only, or pre-signups for pros / semipros. because in the end, all this is is a qualifier and everyone knows that unknowns won't get to qualify in the end (and yes it's a totally different situation when it's about a direct tournament, where participating makes you proud : who the fuck cares you played a qualifier if you are diamond, this gives you no pride, but the possibility to play in a MLG or whatever other tour shouldn't be exclusive to pros)
On April 22 2013 13:52 Kyir wrote: Thanks for making our entire regional scene look even worse MLG. Really appreciate it.
lol so dramatic. Some Chinese players didn't get to play...do I care? Not really. It's just one video game tournament. Life will go on.
That's your second comment with "didn't get to play" + "lol China ppl who cares about them?!". First of all, they DID get to play, so that's not the issue. The issue is your beloved US tournament was hard limited to 512 players and there were more candidates, so it became "the first who registered got in, the rest - better luck next time", which is a complete joke and has nothing to do with skill in Starcraft or what country you are from.
You only hear about these Chinese players because they are famous enough, but you can bet many US players who are not as famous also got snubbed out of the bracket, because they weren't lucky enough to be among the first 512 registered.
Adding to that, each of the 512 players who entered had to pay 20 USD to get in, so how much money did MLG make off of that? 488 x 20... almost a thousand dollars for making a faulty entry mechanism on a website.
I can't help but feel slightly ashamed for feeding this troll. Europe is massively larger (skillwise) than the U.S.A.
The only way to make everybody happy is to actually revert to the system that WCS 2012 had in place for that year.
On April 22 2013 14:21 Toxi78 wrote: you know something is wrong when the first rounds of your tournament are "who can register the fastest". they could at least have had a restriction to masters players only, or pre-signups for pros / semipros. because in the end, all this is is a qualifier and everyone knows that unknowns won't get to qualify in the end (and yes it's a totally different situation when it's about a direct tournament, where participating makes you proud : who the fuck cares you played a qualifier if you are diamond, this gives you no pride, but the possibility to play in a MLG or whatever other tour shouldn't be exclusive to pros)
This. I do casting for a Taiwanese-based tournament known as the ASL and if you want to enter, you have to fit one of the following criteria: A) Be GM on the Mainland China server B) Be GM on the SEA server or C) Be a 1000 point master's league player on the Korean server.
MLG never had a bigger fuckup. They should be fined by Blizzard and Sundance better gets his ass up and does a statement. Not that it will change anything but right there you got the reason why eSports outside of Korea fails. Who can take a company serious that cannot run a 512 man qualifier proper which should have been 1024 or 2048 to begin with.
Wont tune in MLG or support them with money like in the past. That is nothing short of cheating
On April 22 2013 14:54 farnham wrote: Kespa like shit right there
Kespa was known for its questionable policies and stubborness. What MLG demonstrated this weekend was complete incompetence in its main job duty. At least kespa had its shit together enough to run a large tournament properly.
On April 22 2013 09:36 Inimic wrote: Nazis operated the concentration camps because they were following the rules. Thus, "rules are the rules" is a completely ridiculous argument for anything besides an argument over whether the rules were followed. Its an argument for people unable to think for themselves, used constantly by these people...
In a word: the rules are not a good excuse to behave in an absurd, offensive, ignorant manner.
so what, comm isnt dq'ed everyone expects fruitbasket and then comm shows up at the offline part and cant play because hes not the "person" listed as qualified. also rules are important to be followed, other wise whats the point. if rules are unjust they will be changed but until they are then you have to follow them,
also, nazis werent following rules they were following orders from a military commander. this is completely different. in a army/military you can afford to have soliders questioning orders. your army would be shit and never win a battle. the only ignorant thing being said on this forum is how unfair it is for mlg to DQ someone for breaking the rules. also im pretty sure that playing on someone elses Bnet account is a bannable offense from blizzard soo... hes kinda lucky blizzard doesnt ban the account anyways which would mean he couldnt play wcs :p
On April 22 2013 14:54 farnham wrote: Kespa like shit right there
Kespa was known for its questionable policies and stubborness. What MLG demonstrated this weekend was complete incompetence in its main job duty. At least kespa had its shit together enough to run a large tournament properly.
Exactly. I almost prefer Kespa run the WCS NA, so long as they don't use SNM as a caster.
On April 22 2013 13:52 Kyir wrote: Thanks for making our entire regional scene look even worse MLG. Really appreciate it.
lol so dramatic. Some Chinese players didn't get to play...do I care? Not really. It's just one video game tournament. Life will go on.
That's your second comment with "didn't get to play" + "lol China ppl who cares about them?!". First of all, they DID get to play, so that's not the issue. The issue is your beloved US tournament was hard limited to 512 players and there were more candidates, so it became "the first who registered got in, the rest - better luck next time", which is a complete joke and has nothing to do with skill in Starcraft or what country you are from.
You only hear about these Chinese players because they are famous enough, but you can bet many US players who are not as famous also got snubbed out of the bracket, because they weren't lucky enough to be among the first 512 registered.
Adding to that, each of the 512 players who entered had to pay 20 USD to get in, so how much money did MLG make off of that? 488 x 20... almost a thousand dollars for making a faulty entry mechanism on a website.
I can't help but feel slightly ashamed for feeding this troll. Europe is massively larger (skillwise) than the U.S.A.
The only way to make everybody happy is to actually revert to the system that WCS 2012 had in place for that year.
They didn't go through with the $20 entry fee.
If they did, this problem probably wouldn't be happening in the first place as only serious players would try to enter while people that enter just for fun probably won't want to invest money into it.
(Though $20 is too high. Even $5 seems okay in terms of making sure only people who are serious about it enter it.)
Of course, simply restricting it to Masters + Grand Masters with certain points (with priority to known pro gamers) would have worked decently as well too.
On April 22 2013 13:52 Kyir wrote: Thanks for making our entire regional scene look even worse MLG. Really appreciate it.
lol so dramatic. Some Chinese players didn't get to play...do I care? Not really. It's just one video game tournament. Life will go on.
I don't get the whole "life will go on". These are forums for SC2 (which are meant for discussion, which is also encouraged). Obviously, people will be discussing SC2 here.
People who don't really care probably aren't posting here in the first place. So, I don't get the point of posting here just to say you don't really care (especially since WCS is a hot topic lately).
Plus, we want to talk about WCS anyway (whether good or bad) to help spread awareness of the tournament.
Finally, posting feedback on anything helps improve future tournaments (or anything in general). If we point out anything that could have been done better, most likely someone will take notice and try to fix those issues the next time (like the one 512 bracket for qualifier with no restrictions on who could enter problem).
Correct me if I´m wrong. So, Comm was declined a spot in the qualifier and then he secretly played on another account, because he didn´t care for the organizer´s decision. I don´t know how that is cool.
On April 22 2013 15:36 Daswollvieh wrote: Correct me if I´m wrong. So, Comm was declined a spot in the qualifier and then he secretly played on another account, because he didn´t care for the organizer´s decision. I don´t know how that is cool.
It wasn't a secret. He wasn't trying to hide it.
The admins told him he had a spot, but they didn't give him one. Someone else volunteered to give him their spot because of the mixup. He made it to the finals and got DQ'd.
I'm a little confused on the backlash on the disqualification. The fact that he didn't get seeded or registered is irrelevant to this point. It doesn't matter if he should have been in the tournament.
They should have spoken to MLG before the qualifiers about the swap. It is completely obvious that you can't just allow players on their own to trade spots with no communication or regulation. It's not Comm's fault he wasn't invited, but it is definitely his fault he was disqualified.
Save your "disgusting" comments for the registration system, not the DQ.
On April 22 2013 15:36 Daswollvieh wrote: Correct me if I´m wrong. So, Comm was declined a spot in the qualifier and then he secretly played on another account, because he didn´t care for the organizer´s decision. I don´t know how that is cool.
There is another thread about MLG screwing over the Chinese players who had registered on tiem and weren't put into the brackets by MLG. MLG screwed up by not having Comm in the brackets in the first place when he rightfully should have been anyway, either as a legitimately registered user, or because he's the damned WCS China champion.
This is disappointing. While I agree that rules are important, there are always exceptions to rules and I think this is one of those cases. It's bad enough that it was a first who signs up so that even lower league players can play in it with no chance of winning but if they wanted it to be like that, at least make sure to let in some of the Chinese players and give priority like GOM does for qualifiers(ESF, KeSPA and 300+ KR master players then everyone else). This way, everyone who is a pro gets a chance to participate since this is what they are training for and all the other spots will go to those who are interested in trying to see how far they get then everyone below whatever limit they set. I'm going to wait for an official statement to see what happens next.
On April 22 2013 15:26 Type|NarutO wrote: Actually a aingle person with a brain could have run a better tournament.
cmon, making such comments won't change the outcome. I doubt they will be reading every reply in this thread anyways and mistakes happen. It's what they do that to fix them that either breaks or makes a company imo so let's just wait and see.
On April 22 2013 15:36 Daswollvieh wrote: Correct me if I´m wrong. So, Comm was declined a spot in the qualifier and then he secretly played on another account, because he didn´t care for the organizer´s decision. I don´t know how that is cool.
There is another thread about MLG screwing over the Chinese players who had registered on tiem and weren't put into the brackets by MLG. MLG screwed up by not having Comm in the brackets in the first place when he rightfully should have been anyway, either as a legitimately registered user, or because he's the damned WCS China champion.
For the record and from what I understand, they signed in but it was the first 512 who sign up and they weren't in that 512 so they weren't given a spot which is why the admin said that they are signed in but they weren't in the bracket. Since I made it confusing lol, here's what I mean: Register -> sign in -> play If you register within 512 and make sure to sign in within 2 hours of WCS starting, you get to play. If you register after 512 people have and sign in, you don't get to play so they registered and signed in but more than 512 people have registered by the time they did so it doesn't matter if they signed in or not.
what D: I love the Chinese/Taiwan scene Q_Q they have like their own meta game D: I must admit its somewhat MLG their fault but I think Blizzard could have done something for the Asian non Korean country;s and Oceania And without mlg esport wouldn't be what it is now
People want esports to be mainstream? Not with such a joke organization like mlg. Those qualifiers are one big JOKE and there wasn't a single sorry from MLG. The problem with chinese players is just so fking unprofessional, I'm not surprised people are mad...
On April 22 2013 15:39 BigFan wrote: This is disappointing. While I agree that rules are important, there are always exceptions to rules and I think this is one of those cases. It's bad enough that it was a first who signs up so that even lower league players can play in it with no chance of winning but if they wanted it to be like that, at least make sure to let in some of the Chinese players and give priority like GOM does for qualifiers(ESF, KeSPA and 300+ KR master players then everyone else). This way, everyone who is a pro gets a chance to participate since this is what they are training for and all the other spots will go to those who are interested in trying to see how far they get then everyone below whatever limit they set. I'm going to wait for an official statement to see what happens next.
Hay anybody actually checked with the actual wording of the rules? As far as I know, it said that players MAY be disqualified, so the MLG could have turned a blind eye to this one without contradicting their rules... So MLG actively made the decision to disqualify Comm, it was no automatic consequence from the rules.
On April 22 2013 15:39 BigFan wrote: This is disappointing. While I agree that rules are important, there are always exceptions to rules and I think this is one of those cases. It's bad enough that it was a first who signs up so that even lower league players can play in it with no chance of winning but if they wanted it to be like that, at least make sure to let in some of the Chinese players and give priority like GOM does for qualifiers(ESF, KeSPA and 300+ KR master players then everyone else). This way, everyone who is a pro gets a chance to participate since this is what they are training for and all the other spots will go to those who are interested in trying to see how far they get then everyone below whatever limit they set. I'm going to wait for an official statement to see what happens next.
Hay anybody actually checked with the actual wording of the rules? As far as I know, it said that players MAY be disqualified, so the MLG could have turned a blind eye to this one without contradicting their rules... So MLG actively made the decision to disqualify Comm, it was no automatic consequence from the rules.
"Individuals may not use another Player’s Battle.net Account in the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament." Rule #4 Then "Breaking any of General Rules #1-5 may result in a Forfeit of the Game and/or disqualification from the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament." Rule #6 ><
On April 22 2013 15:39 BigFan wrote: This is disappointing. While I agree that rules are important, there are always exceptions to rules and I think this is one of those cases. It's bad enough that it was a first who signs up so that even lower league players can play in it with no chance of winning but if they wanted it to be like that, at least make sure to let in some of the Chinese players and give priority like GOM does for qualifiers(ESF, KeSPA and 300+ KR master players then everyone else). This way, everyone who is a pro gets a chance to participate since this is what they are training for and all the other spots will go to those who are interested in trying to see how far they get then everyone below whatever limit they set. I'm going to wait for an official statement to see what happens next.
Hay anybody actually checked with the actual wording of the rules? As far as I know, it said that players MAY be disqualified, so the MLG could have turned a blind eye to this one without contradicting their rules... So MLG actively made the decision to disqualify Comm, it was no automatic consequence from the rules.
On April 22 2013 15:39 BigFan wrote: This is disappointing. While I agree that rules are important, there are always exceptions to rules and I think this is one of those cases. It's bad enough that it was a first who signs up so that even lower league players can play in it with no chance of winning but if they wanted it to be like that, at least make sure to let in some of the Chinese players and give priority like GOM does for qualifiers(ESF, KeSPA and 300+ KR master players then everyone else). This way, everyone who is a pro gets a chance to participate since this is what they are training for and all the other spots will go to those who are interested in trying to see how far they get then everyone below whatever limit they set. I'm going to wait for an official statement to see what happens next.
Hay anybody actually checked with the actual wording of the rules? As far as I know, it said that players MAY be disqualified, so the MLG could have turned a blind eye to this one without contradicting their rules... So MLG actively made the decision to disqualify Comm, it was no automatic consequence from the rules.
On April 22 2013 15:39 BigFan wrote: This is disappointing. While I agree that rules are important, there are always exceptions to rules and I think this is one of those cases. It's bad enough that it was a first who signs up so that even lower league players can play in it with no chance of winning but if they wanted it to be like that, at least make sure to let in some of the Chinese players and give priority like GOM does for qualifiers(ESF, KeSPA and 300+ KR master players then everyone else). This way, everyone who is a pro gets a chance to participate since this is what they are training for and all the other spots will go to those who are interested in trying to see how far they get then everyone below whatever limit they set. I'm going to wait for an official statement to see what happens next.
Hay anybody actually checked with the actual wording of the rules? As far as I know, it said that players MAY be disqualified, so the MLG could have turned a blind eye to this one without contradicting their rules... So MLG actively made the decision to disqualify Comm, it was no automatic consequence from the rules.
On April 22 2013 15:26 Type|NarutO wrote: Actually a aingle person with a brain could have run a better tournament.
cmon, making such comments won't change the outcome. I doubt they will be reading every reply in this thread anyways and mistakes happen. It's what they do that to fix them that either breaks or makes a company imo so let's just wait and see.
I wrote multiple long(er) replies and I've supported MLG where I could in the past. Even if I thought their prices were not especially fair or reasonable, I think the entertainment value was okay and the games were good. Technical difficulties / stream lags are issues I am very well aware of can happen, but this qualifier is not anything you could potentially back up, with anything.
No ruleset does get you out of 'I fucked up terribly'
Really I am sorry but in the end I am tired to argue against some kids here that write 'oh lol a Chinese got banned, deal with it, just another noname' or something along those lines. Its not like MLG run the qualifier poorly, I really could say fuck it and move on if it was about delay or probably a re-match decision that was bad, but this is about mistakes that completely render this qualifier void. Hyun knocked out people while he shouldn't be playing at all. Comm knocked out one round before qualifying and knocked out tons of people on the way.
They confirmed people access to the tournament/participation and then didn't put them in the bracket. They ran a 512 man bracket what should have been either an unlimited bracket (because everyone deserves a shot, even if they are bad) OR they make damn sure that at least every top player gets in.
Really I don't mean to mindlessly bash anyone, but for that matter, its really the case that 1 single person could have run a better tournament
On chinese people: They were confirmed 'ready to go' for the tournament by an Admin, so MLG basically cheated them out.
On April 22 2013 15:26 Type|NarutO wrote: Actually a aingle person with a brain could have run a better tournament.
cmon, making such comments won't change the outcome. I doubt they will be reading every reply in this thread anyways and mistakes happen. It's what they do that to fix them that either breaks or makes a company imo so let's just wait and see.
I wrote multiple long(er) replies and I've supported MLG where I could in the past. Even if I thought their prices were not especially fair or reasonable, I think the entertainment value was okay and the games were good. Technical difficulties / stream lags are issues I am very well aware of can happen, but this qualifier is not anything you could potentially back up, with anything.
No ruleset does get you out of 'I fucked up terribly'
Really I am sorry but in the end I am tired to argue against some kids here that write 'oh lol a Chinese got banned, deal with it, just another noname' or something along those lines. Its not like MLG run the qualifier poorly, I really could say fuck it and move on if it was about delay or probably a re-match decision that was bad, but this is about mistakes that completely render this qualifier void. Hyun knocked out people while he shouldn't be playing at all. Comm knocked out one round before qualifying and knocked out tons of people on the way.
They confirmed people access to the tournament/participation and then didn't put them in the bracket. They ran a 512 man bracket what should have been either an unlimited bracket (because everyone deserves a shot, even if they are bad) OR they make damn sure that at least every top player gets in.
Really I don't mean to mindlessly bash anyone, but for that matter, its really the case that 1 single person could have run a better tournament
On chinese people: They were confirmed 'ready to go' for the tournament by an Admin, so MLG basically cheated them out.
I completely agree with you, its completely unaccaptable what MLG did.
Im not going to watch MLG or whatever tournament they will make. Make the fucking free market so i can choose the product. Ah sorry its blizzard exclusive deals
letting diamond players in, cheaters, and people who are not even ABLE to play (hyun) seems they just auto filled brackets not cared progamers were let out ... pros first then amateurs sry thats the way who do it, disqualify the winner of WCS china is so ... sry i have to say RETARDED ... and then DQ him when he finds a spot ... thats not acceptable, usa went korea B so i will watch korea and eu and boykott us
I don't think this is a thread to argue whether the Chinese should have been included in the field... based on the other thread and the evidence available it seems like they should've been for sure, and that is a fault of MLG's.
Going back solely to the issue of whether Comm should've been DQ'ed... I think the answer is clear that he should'e been - the rules do not permit for smurfing and it was an obvious, intentional error by Comm. In that case I think MLG did the right thing.
In the future it shouldn't happen because MLG should've had the Chinese players included (or the admin properly explaining that they checked in too late).
Ideally, I'd like to see a $5 fee so the field doesn't get littered with trash. But people complained about that so who knows.
I just wanna clarify the screenshot clearly said ready to go. Let me explain to MLG what this means in the english language. For example when your in a rollercoaster and you hear the driver say ready to go, you're about to actually ride it. Nobody is going to shout ready to go if you you are IN THE LINE TO QUEUE for the rollercoaster.
How can sundance be so ignorant to argue they were in the line. This is just absurd...
I think there's too much anger directed towards MLG over their decision to take action on a rule break (rule #4 as Plansix points out). Had they asked an admin if Comm could substitute in the first place they probably could have avoided the problem.
I could understand being disappointed that MLG's setup allowed a player like Comm to slip through, but anger over making good on their preset rules seems absurd.
I imagine Incontrol telling the story of how Sundance comes out and says: "Alright, I get it. Our tournament sucks. IT SUCKS! I get it, okay. We are like the shaved hairs of donkey balls..."
In the end of the day, we may protest a lot about a bunch of stuff around this tournament, but that of course doesn't take away from the results of those who fairly and squarely made it through a difficult bracket and to a very respectable spot.
Also - correct me if I am wrong - if this had been the ESL qualifier, we would have - even if some people only perceive it as hollow words - an detailed apology from high up by now. Instead we have tweets from Sundance defending his crew and claiming all accusations as wild and misinformed...
edit: did he delete the "rules are there for a reason" tweet which I have seen cited in this thread without notice...?
On April 22 2013 16:34 urashimakt wrote: I think there's too much anger directed towards MLG over their decision to take action on a rule break (rule #4 as Plansix points out). Had they asked an admin if Comm could substitute in the first place they probably could have avoided the problem.
I could understand being disappointed that MLG's setup allowed a player like Comm to slip through, but anger over making good on their preset rules seems absurd.
The point is there was no malicious intent involved at all and the rules explicitly state that it is NOT an automatic disqualification, merely that it MIGHT be. This means that MLG actively decided to DQ him even when the option was there not to and still be within the rules. The fact that MLG chose to DQ him in the position he was in is ridiculous.
Rules should be taken into context depending upon the situation, this is messed up situation and MLG should admit fault, take responsibility, and do the honourable thing and reinstate him while making it abundantly clear smurfing isn't tolerated and they don't condone it, but in this case, circumstances dictate they can make an exception due to it being the first year, technical difficulties etc it's not so hard, just takes at least one big ball
On April 22 2013 16:34 urashimakt wrote: I think there's too much anger directed towards MLG over their decision to take action on a rule break (rule #4 as Plansix points out). Had they asked an admin if Comm could substitute in the first place they probably could have avoided the problem.
I could understand being disappointed that MLG's setup allowed a player like Comm to slip through, but anger over making good on their preset rules seems absurd.
The preset rules state clearly that there is decision to be made by admin, and we all agree that letting Comm stay would be actually partially fixing their earlier fuck up with scrubs taking place proplayers spots.
But this was just a drop in Sea of stupidness
Im not going to support an organizer, who thinks he can put ONE 512 bracket with
-no skill restrictions
-weird sign-up priority
- fixed hours, and not only fixed hours but with huge difference, making everyone go apeshit
More
- im not going to support organizer who does not give a shit, whether an Code S player is already knocking down their players
or a freaking cheater is doing the same
both of these information were easily available at hand before the tournament even started
I wish incompetance would stop at this.
The main problem is, Blizzard wants to NA to grow, and they failed to realize that qualifier is the most important piece of the puzzle, you may say that for most of us the finals are the most important as they bring the most fancy stuff. But for the scene, for players which are the future, qualifiers are not doubt the most important.
We arrived at the point that this qualifer is already invalid. A qualifer drawn on paper without stream would be better. Because it would at least be a testimony to skill which is the priority for "Code S" right? As opposite to the one which had silver scrubs denying pro-players spot.
Blizz should set up wcs in other regions, then if they want ammature players playing in wcs, they should have limit it to their own region, This would achieve their goal in promoting new talents as well as give players from other regions to compete in their own
On April 22 2013 15:38 Befree wrote: I'm a little confused on the backlash on the disqualification. The fact that he didn't get seeded or registered is irrelevant to this point. It doesn't matter if he should have been in the tournament.
They should have spoken to MLG before the qualifiers about the swap. It is completely obvious that you can't just allow players on their own to trade spots with no communication or regulation. It's not Comm's fault he wasn't invited, but it is definitely his fault he was disqualified.
Save your "disgusting" comments for the registration system, not the DQ.
I disagree.
First they dont get all the seats they deserve. Then they deside to let their best player try to qualify. They are completely open about the fact that its Comm that is playing, and that Comm has all the intentions to keep on playing. He doesnt just play to let fruitbasket qualify, so that Fruitbasket can play in "Code S".
The organiser should be thankfull that the Chinese "solved" this themself, without any malisious intentions. They should be thankfull that the WCS China Champion is actually playing, instead of not being able to play due to the bracket system.
Comm was the winner of WCS China 2012. Why wasn't he directly seeded into the premier league to begin with? How did he not get even one of the 64 qualifier seeds reserved for progamers?
The whole tournament just feels illegitimate to me now. How about all the people that Comm knocked down on the way? It's easy to say "life's not fair" when you don't give a damn about the players being affected. Me, I was really looking forward to seeing how the Chinese players stack up against the international scene, and having that ruined by ridiculous tournament rules is really frustrating.
The rules were only broken because mlg fucked up in the first place by excluding pro gamers from qualifying although they were confirmed to play by a mlg admin. If they hadnt broken their word then comm wouldnt have to use another account to participate. Thats a solution to the problem mlg created but mlg says fuck solutions, rules are more important
On April 22 2013 17:17 E.L.V.I.S wrote: well maybe we should make the difference between one or few MLG admins and MLG itself .. shouldn't we ?
MLG as organization should be responsible for their admins actions. They do pick them. Also, this cannot be written of as 'admins were bad, deal with it'
On April 22 2013 17:17 E.L.V.I.S wrote: well maybe we should make the difference between one or few MLG admins and MLG itself .. shouldn't we ?
Admins represent organization. Organization is responsible for the actions that it's admins do when acting as representatives for the tournament. They are basically the same thing from the point of view of this issue.
On April 22 2013 17:21 E.L.V.I.S wrote: btw just saying but I remember playing some of the EU mlg qualifiers and the admins were really competent, fair and nice
They sure sounded nice, competent and fair in the screen shots too. Just the result was a bit f u in the face for the cChinese players
It's unfortunate what happened during registration, but two wrongs don't make a right. At the very least, if you're going to attempt to do this, you need to contact the appropriate admins well before you go through with it. As unfair as it was to the Chinese players in regards to their registration problems, it's also incredibly unfair to the players that Comm played against under the name Fruitsbasket.
I really don't get how there can be so many people supporting what Comm did. Unless he contacted all his potential opponents well in advance and notified them of who he was, it's incredibly unfair.
On April 22 2013 18:04 Brian333 wrote: It's unfortunate what happened during registration, but two wrongs don't make a right. At the very least, if you're going to attempt to do this, you need to contact the appropriate admins well before you go through with it. As unfair as it was to the Chinese players in regards to their registration problems, it's also incredibly unfair to the players that Comm played against under the name Fruitsbasket.
I really don't get how there can be so many people supporting what Comm did. Unless he contacted all his potential opponents well in advance and notified them of who he was, it's incredibly unfair.
As opposed to people who went under the name: "Yoloswag420"?
There was no reason to DQ the guy. Warn him, punish him, whatever. But DQing?
I thought, and still think, that this whole WCS system will be good for the scene... but they really need to step up their game. This qualifier was pathetic.
On April 22 2013 18:04 Brian333 wrote: It's unfortunate what happened during registration, but two wrongs don't make a right. At the very least, if you're going to attempt to do this, you need to contact the appropriate admins well before you go through with it. As unfair as it was to the Chinese players in regards to their registration problems, it's also incredibly unfair to the players that Comm played against under the name Fruitsbasket.
I really don't get how there can be so many people supporting what Comm did. Unless he contacted all his potential opponents well in advance and notified them of who he was, it's incredibly unfair.
As opposed to people who went under the name: "Yoloswag420"?
There was no reason to DQ the guy. Warn him, punish him, whatever. But DQing?
I thought, and still think, that this whole WCS system will be good for the scene... but they really need to step up their game. This qualifier was pathetic.
Naruto is quite right. As hyperbolic as it sounds, an individual with an rng and an excel spreadsheet could have done a vetter job than mlg. If that isnt a damning indictment of their organisation then I don't know what is.
Jesus. This just keeps getting sillier. He shouldn't have been forced into this situation to begin with. The fact that China's best players were overlooked and left out is just ridiculous, this is just the cherry on top.
They should thank Comm, he fixed a major bug in their tournament, but instead of thanking him they punish him for fixing up their own tournament.
Just stupid overall, someone else said it too, first 520 to register get in is just plain retarded in a professional scene. That is how it goes with amateur leagues, the pro's get in no matter what. This happens pretty much in every sport.
It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
Just stupid overall, someone else said it too, first 520 to register get in is just plain retarded in a professional scene. That is how it goes with amateur leagues, the pro's get in no matter what. This happens pretty much in every sport.
Did MLG ever come out and say why it was that few spots? Wasn't there a day in EU with like a round of 2048 or something?
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
As an answer to all the "but these are the rules, we can not make any exception, even if it is stupid". Of course you can. This whole crappy simili-legalistic system, just like banning hackers requires absolute proof lie a picture of him holding a sign "i'm hacking" infuriates me. That's not even how real life justice works, you know? and there is a reason for that.
A rule stupid in a precise context is not enforced, that's why RL justice is not given by computers, but by people able to understand the give and takes of a situation, and to seek fairness.
Simply put: "this guy is smurfing , even if we know who he is, and can check it between games, let's ban him !" : crappy admin job "ok what is the fairest and smartest way to treat this problem? let this totally legit guy play!" Good job. Real life exemple, stephano typing ingame "GLHF" in a pro league match, just getting a warning, not getting DQed since he didn't know the rule. Sadly it seems that even in administrating a tourney koreans are better...
We really need the Muhammadjesusspaghettimonster admin like Incontrol said in a SOTG, to give ACTUAL smart (only logical would probably do the job) solutions to problems without having to justify himself to the internets.
On the topic, crappy qualifiers, total train wreck, i just hope they do another one, even if that means changing slightly the format. Probably impossible, but a man can dream.
Has MLG or Sundance or anyone said anything regarding this? The whole mess with the Chinese players really needs to be addressed, and remaining silent is the worst thing they could do in this situation.
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
I really don't get how there can be so many people supporting what Comm did. Unless he contacted all his potential opponents well in advance and notified them of who he was, it's incredibly unfair.
He told them before he played them which is pretty much the same amount of time everybody else gets in an online bracket play. This isn't a weekly elimination bracket like in the GSL where you practice in advance. This is the "you get 5 minutes before starting the next game" type of deal.
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
That's not Blizzard's fault on that one.
Agreed. MLG did this on their own. Although I wonder if Comm was considered for a direct invite spot as the WCS China champion. How big was Blizzards' involvement in picking the non American invites?
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
He was one round away from qualifying? Cannot be that bad, what is your post even about, lol.
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
That's not Blizzard's fault on that one.
Agreed. MLG did this on their own. Although I wonder if Comm was considered for a direct invite spot as the WCS China champion. How big was Blizzards' involvement in picking the non American invites?
That's what confuses me. I'd assumed that there would be some form of seeding/invite system for players who won their national championships for WCS last year, even if this year has gone with a completely different system. Makes more sense than the qualifier system they have in place now.
I really don't get how there can be so many people supporting what Comm did. Unless he contacted all his potential opponents well in advance and notified them of who he was, it's incredibly unfair.
He told them before he played them which is pretty much the same amount of time everybody else gets in an online bracket play. This isn't a weekly elimination bracket like in the GSL where you practice in advance. This is the "you get 5 minutes before starting the next game" type of deal.
He wasn't hiding the fact he was Comm. The amateur giving up his spot for a pro was a sick baller move and Comm making sure his opponents knew he was Comm was a very fair thing to do too. When that one guy at an MLG purposely lost to White-Ra and that allowed White-Ra to advance despite a stupid rule, he was praised as a hero. I hope this Fruitbasket guy gets treated like a hero in China.
MLG DQing Comm when he was 1 match from qualifying is a shitty move.
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
Are Chinese players playing under Kespa teams logical? No. They have similar barriers as rest of the world.
Lx and PJ were among the best foreigners ever, they were drafted by SKT T1.
During a Chinese interview after departing from SK Telecom T1, Lx said the inability to participate in intricate strategic discussions and mentoring due to language barriers was his greatest problem during his progaming life in Korea. Lx said his skilled improved drastically when he began training in the pro house and used to beat Fantasy and BeSt at a regular basis. However after a while he felt a stagnation of his progress and skill while Fantasy continued to improve due to mentoring. Lx mentioned that his skill would've progressed a lot further and would most likely stay in Korea if he had learned the Korean language.
There was and probably still is a great potential in China.
Do you expect them to go to Korea, learn Korean, qualify from Korean Code A? When even Korean progamers signed for NA?
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
Whats logical about having Koreans in a NA tournament? MLG completley fucked this qualifier up no two ways about it.
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
He was one round away from qualifying? Cannot be that bad, what is your post even about, lol.
basically he beat a couple of unknowns and ran into a korean who i've not heard any results from in ages, and promptly got 2-0'ed so lets stop making it sound like some kind of feat.
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
That's not Blizzard's fault on that one.
Agreed. MLG did this on their own. Although I wonder if Comm was considered for a direct invite spot as the WCS China champion. How big was Blizzards' involvement in picking the non American invites?
It is Blizzard's fault for ignoring China in this year's WCS. It is Blizzard's fault for MLG being the one organizing this, when MLG have little to no experience with running proper online SC2 tournaments. It is Blizzard's fault for the ridiculous time table.
It is MLG's fault for doing such a poor job at organizing this, even when the conditions they were given were not the best.
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
Chinese not= Korean.
By your logic, Moonglade should be playing in WCS Korea because he lives closer to Korea.
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
Whats logical about having Koreans in a NA tournament? MLG completley fucked this qualifier up no two ways about it.
true, i don't deny that. on the other hand a good deal of koreans seemed to have no problems signing up for the qualifiers.
the first mistake was trying to separate the global scene into 3 "equal" regions, when everybody knows they are not equal. korean sc2 is so dominant that even their master league players can wipe the floor with other regional GMs. well, this forces korean/asian players to look for opportunities elsewhere.
the second mistake was not imposing regional quotas. of course we know that no american player will get anywhere, so unless america wants to watch a bunch of koreans duking it out on their soil, it makes sense to ensure some of their players get to participate in the league.
It's pretty ridiculous the national WCS 2012 champions weren't all seeded into WCS 2013 in the first place. It's even more ridiculous that MLG was letting Diamond players into their bracket over WCS 2012 national champions.
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
Chinese not= Korean.
By your logic, Moonglade should be playing in WCS Korea because he lives closer to Korea.
so we have 3 options:
1. have a wcs china 2. let chinese players participate in korea, their neighbouring country 3. let them play online in WCS america, and if they get through, fly them to america
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
Chinese not= Korean.
By your logic, Moonglade should be playing in WCS Korea because he lives closer to Korea.
so we have 3 options:
1. have a wcs china 2. let chinese players participate in korea, their neighbouring country 3. let them play online in WCS america, and if they get through, fly them to america
which of these sounds the most workable?
1, with a small adjustment: Have a WCS for the SEA region. It has it's own server, why can't it have it's own league?
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
Chinese not= Korean.
By your logic, Moonglade should be playing in WCS Korea because he lives closer to Korea.
so we have 3 options:
1. have a wcs china 2. let chinese players participate in korea, their neighbouring country 3. let them play online in WCS america, and if they get through, fly them to america
which of these sounds the most workable?
3 is wrong. Neither MLG nor Blizzard flies them to the U.S., they have to pay the ticket out of their own pocket (at least up to a city in the U.S.).
Speaking for myself here, in no way representing the teams and organisations I'm involved in.
If 4 months ago they asked me; "Hey Martijn, lets see how many clusterfucks it takes to reach critical mass and severely damage sc2 as an esport." WCS is becoming what I would've come up with. The true irony here is that I would've taken more time to prepare than the organisations involved did.
Snide cynicism aside (sorry, bitter because of this missed opportunity at something great).
It looks like the MLG admins got stuck in a situation where they had to enforce rules even though they fully well realized the rules conflicted with common sense. Everyone realizes that we should have players like Comm in the tournament, I'm sure they do too. The problem is the format and tournament as a whole being prepared and organised poorly. At the point where they found this out, they were committed.
Do we know who should be held accountable for this mess? I mean, it's easy to blame ESL for WCS EU, gom/kespa for WCS KR and MLG for WCS US, but I'm sure that's not how Occam's razor works. We've had to deal with a complete lack of organisation across the board. At some point we have to conclude that they were never given enough notice.
So who at Blizzard is behind all this? Is there anyone that can actually be held accountable? When was this all thought up?
I'm assuming blizzard should be pretty pissed about this, yes the whole thing is rushed and mistakes were bound to happen but this is farcical, MLG making ESL look baller. The NA qualifiers have been so poorly executed, MLG has to take responsibility for it, it's hard to fuck it up so badly but they managed it. Blizzard may be Comm's Obi Wan Kenobi, hope they do the right thing, for the good of the game.
This is so pathetic... some koreans playing under a barcode name, and they DQ Comm for this.. Hahahahahaha! And i tought ESL was bad!! LOL! Thanks god im from Europe!
On April 22 2013 19:27 -IeZaeL- wrote: This is so pathetic... some koreans playing under a barcode name, and they DQ Comm for this.. Hahahahahaha! And i tought ESL was bad!! LOL! Thanks god im from Europe!
yes, ESL looks really smart after what MLG did this qualifiers the only way to let the ESL look good is the MLG
On April 22 2013 19:27 -IeZaeL- wrote: This is so pathetic... some koreans playing under a barcode name, and they DQ Comm for this.. Hahahahahaha! And i tought ESL was bad!! LOL! Thanks god im from Europe!
Isnt it the MLG-web-account-name (website bracket name) that is registered for "John Applepie" that matters? Regardless if they're a barcode in game?
I mean he was DQ'd because of the "transfer" for the "MLG-Web-bracket-account" and that the Amateurs name was registered, but Comm actually played? (regardless of ingame nicknames) For instance.. there was some username called Axiom2 or something on the web bracket, but of course that was registered to a person?
Just stupid overall, someone else said it too, first 520 to register get in is just plain retarded in a professional scene. That is how it goes with amateur leagues, the pro's get in no matter what. This happens pretty much in every sport.
Did MLG ever come out and say why it was that few spots? Wasn't there a day in EU with like a round of 2048 or something?
because they cant think far enough (oh we only have 500 pro no problem) and then allow amateurs too
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
He was one round away from qualifying? Cannot be that bad, what is your post even about, lol.
basically he beat a couple of unknowns and ran into a korean who i've not heard any results from in ages, and promptly got 2-0'ed so lets stop making it sound like some kind of feat.
All he had left to qualify was to beat Apocalypse. Still a Korean terran, but I'd say Comm definitely had a chance there. Macsed knocked out Sage 2-0 as well as JYP in the loser's bracket before losing to Alive, so it's not like Chinese players have no chance against Koreans.
If you want to talk about looking at a map, why should the Chinese be trying to qualify for Korea when even Koreans don't want to compete there? I agree that the regional splitting is horrible, but that's an entirely different issue here.
On April 22 2013 09:47 Duplicate wrote: Fairly certain most people would agree MLG dropped the ball with this tourney. The important thing though, is to identify where they messed up and make corrections to improve future tournaments. Some suggestions (not all original, some borrowed from various ppl that posted throughout the day):
1) Stop using McDonalds as a recruiting center for Admins 2) Ensure employees are not racists, in today's case, make sure they don't have anti-Chinese sentiments 3) Get rid of the Shadow Brackets. Hiding brackets so it can be cashed in at a later time is kind of lame. Not to mention it seemed kind of fishy that some of the matchups in the LB were different than what was expected... 4) Improve Bracket display on MLG site if they are really serious about forcing people to use it... It was ugly and quite cumbersome. Who was Axiom4759 again? 5) Implement additional pre-requisites for registration if it is going to be capped at 512. Pro's, GM's, Masters...etc etc. Priority could have been set like that. 6) Multiple streams? There were a lot of matchups I did not really care too much for...woulda been nice to have an alternative option.
I'm sure there is a lot more, but I've wasted enough time on MLG for one day...on to Rollplay.
I can't understand why blizzard would pick MLG to run the qualifiers. Don't they know what kind of company MLG is? How could they not know how far from the community and e-sports MLG stands? Also the thing that annoys me the most about MLG is that they NEVER man up and admits to being wrong. You will NEVER see MLG change their point of view or admit to doing anything wrong. They will only defend their actions and spiral even further into the shades. We have seen this time and time again.
After everything else that went on this weekend regarding the qualifiers, I think MLG admins really just have to pick their battles. It was a clusterfuck on multiple fronts, offending multiple parties and the best use of their time is to DQ someone who accepted a means to participate through the generosity of a fan?
On April 22 2013 18:22 Zzoram wrote: It's not like Comm has a playstyle people all know so that him smurfing would've made it harder to play against him. Nobody knows how the Chinese play anyways.
They should've let him take the amateur's spot, he is the WCS China champion. Blizzard is doing a damn good job of making sure China cares as little as possible about Starcraft 2.
but look, in the grand scheme of things it is probably an insignificant oversight, unless of course you are a rabid chinese fan. the wcs china champion got crushed 2-0 by thestc, there's nothing to argue about here really. how far do you think he would have gone?
of course it's not good for sc2 growth in china but let's talk common sense here, is having chinese players playing in a NA tournament logical? someone needs to look at a world map, i wonder which country is right next to china?
and realistically speaking if they were THAT good they'd probably be in a kespa team by now, which would be both convenient for the players and good for the fans.
He was one round away from qualifying? Cannot be that bad, what is your post even about, lol.
basically he beat a couple of unknowns and ran into a korean who i've not heard any results from in ages, and promptly got 2-0'ed so lets stop making it sound like some kind of feat.
i think its just what incontrole said about WCS EU on SotG. its just sad. there was a huge opportunity there, but everything looked rushed, not ready. WCS Korea (or well lets face it, GSL) was good, but the production of EU and NA were just not up to par and its just sad. this is supposed to be THE THING, but it just looked like a first time tournament of some unknown guy...
WCS Korea (or well lets face it, GSL) was good, but the production of EU and NA were just not up to par and its just sad. this is supposed to be THE THING, but it just looked like a first time tournament of some unknown guy...
Remember that these are only the first tier qualifiers, not Code A or S, so you can only compare it to "Code B to A Qualifiers" (aka Nerd Hell :D).. which probably nobody has seen, other than some coverage on Khaldors stream.
WCS Korea (or well lets face it, GSL) was good, but the production of EU and NA were just not up to par and its just sad. this is supposed to be THE THING, but it just looked like a first time tournament of some unknown guy...
Remember that these are only the first tier qualifiers, not Code A or S, so you can only compare it to "Code B to A Qualifiers" (aka Nerd Hell :D).. which probably nobody has seen, other than some coverage on Khaldors stream.
Right? Am I correct ?
Completely wrong, this is Premier Division qualifier, aka Code S for WCS NA.
WCS Korea (or well lets face it, GSL) was good, but the production of EU and NA were just not up to par and its just sad. this is supposed to be THE THING, but it just looked like a first time tournament of some unknown guy...
Remember that these are only the first tier qualifiers, not Code A or S, so you can only compare it to "Code B to A Qualifiers" (aka Nerd Hell :D).. which probably nobody has seen, other than some coverage on Khaldors stream.
Right? Am I correct ?
Completely wrong, this is Premier Division qualifier, aka Code S for WCS NA.
WCS Korea (or well lets face it, GSL) was good, but the production of EU and NA were just not up to par and its just sad. this is supposed to be THE THING, but it just looked like a first time tournament of some unknown guy...
Remember that these are only the first tier qualifiers, not Code A or S, so you can only compare it to "Code B to A Qualifiers" (aka Nerd Hell :D).. which probably nobody has seen, other than some coverage on Khaldors stream.
Right? Am I correct ?
Completely wrong, this is Premier Division qualifier, aka Code S for WCS NA.
Oh... wow, alright. Got it
And only the top 40 can play challenger (code A WCS NA) and you can't only access premier via challenger (this qualifyer was the exception). Short : Comm got royally screwed.
Blizzard should just kick mlg out of wcs as soon as possible.
Something has to be done about that. Fast. MLG fucked up with the qualifier that bad that the qualifier should be done again.
What's the point of the qualifier if not everyone is able to take part. Blizzard wake up and stop all the contracts going with MLG.
some people try to live out of our beautiful game and get treated like homeless people in some countries.
but oh wait - they have such a nice skyscraper sight at their office, maybe that's why they able to act like a nude amateur. it's like bringing up puppy pics to calm people down.
i wonder why there is such a stupid move ... a 5 year old wouldnt react like these they HAVE to know the reactions ... for me i wont watch any MLG wcs content!
I can't believe MLG is making ESL look so competent o.O Regardless, Blizzard still deserves a large chunk of the blame for rushing out this WCS clusterfuck in the first place. It's only decently run in Korea cause it took over GSL.
Bad move, if it was noticed at the start maybe i would have been ok with it but after getting so far they should have just let it go. Bad that he wasn't allowed in in the first place.
On April 22 2013 21:16 laoji wrote: Bad move, if it was noticed at the start maybe i would have been ok with it but after getting so far they should have just let it go. Bad that he wasn't allowed in in the first place.
It was though, he said who he was, the casters even talked about it...
I thought ESL was bad when they screwed the first 3 qualifiers. One starting too late, one starting too early and 3rd one having less than a minute to check in before it got full. The last 4th qualifier in EU proved ESL fixed their mistakes, allowed everyone to compete (even with small bracket problems), even invited the people who got screwed in 2nd qualifier to get inside without checkin. I can say the 4th qualifier was quite a success.
Even though with all the ESL screw up, it's minor compared to this. Even though I'm from EU and didn't play in MLG NA qualifier. It really sounds that MLG is much worst than ESL (even though I must admit I always thought the opposite until I heard this). They totally screwed that guy. So what if he uses someone's else account? He still got through the qualifier and deserves that place. It's not his fault that they let every single diamond compete in there so that there's no spots for pros. People from china are already screwed because Blizzard made only eu, na and kr qualifiers. But now they get screwed even more from the unfairness caused by MLG. I'm seriously disappointed by this. I don't know if NASL would have done a better job, but I think Blizzard themself should have taken more actions to ensure that the qualifiers are done correctly.
On April 22 2013 21:13 DJFaqU wrote: Lol @ all the people saying that it's a bad move by MLG. It's the only right thing they could do.
invite noobs over wcs 2012 china winners, and then when the noobs give place to the champ dq the champ 1 game before qualifiy ? its not like comm SMURFED he played under his nick whats a "right move" on it ? shuttle got place in esl same way everyone was "ok nice he got a place haha we so lucky that went well"
On April 22 2013 21:13 DJFaqU wrote: Lol @ all the people saying that it's a bad move by MLG. It's the only right thing they could do.
invite noobs over wcs 2012 china winners, and then when the noobs give place to the champ dq the champ 1 game before qualifiy ? its not like comm SMURFED he played under his nick whats a "right move" on it ? shuttle got place in esl same way everyone was "ok nice he got a place haha we so lucky that went well"
no noobs were invited, someone got a spot (due to register on time), comm didn't. so he was not allowed to play. but he did, so MLG dqed him. What should they have done? "oh well, our rules don't matter anyway, get that spot?" he did break the rules and he got banned for it end of story. Not sure what there is to argue here. Doesn't change the fact that this tournament was extremely poorly planned and run, though.
On April 22 2013 21:13 DJFaqU wrote: Lol @ all the people saying that it's a bad move by MLG. It's the only right thing they could do.
invite noobs over wcs 2012 china winners, and then when the noobs give place to the champ dq the champ 1 game before qualifiy ? its not like comm SMURFED he played under his nick whats a "right move" on it ? shuttle got place in esl same way everyone was "ok nice he got a place haha we so lucky that went well"
no noobs were invited, someone got a spot (due to register on time), comm didn't. so he was not allowed to play. but he did, so MLG dqed him. What should they have done? "oh well, our rules don't matter anyway, get that spot?" he did break the rules and he got banned for it end of story. Not sure what there is to argue here. Doesn't change the fact that this tournament was extremely poorly planned and run, though.
Do you really try to defend their bad call? What about look at ESL 2 days earlier? If a player forfeits his spot for another then all is fine. Is not like they created a 513th place just for him. Shuttle was without a place 2 days earlier and if one guy renounced his place for him ESL was happy to let him play. That's a thoughtful call. But MLG is just so bad it seems. And it's more than just a bad luck, happened once thing. From what I understand Comm actually registered on time, but because of the 512 limit they just let him out without a place. Bullshit attitude. You have 1000 people registered make it a 1024 people bracket. 3000, well then make it 4096 bracket and so on. Specially if you will only run a SINGLE qualifier.
But but but!? This happened in ESL's WCS.eu qualifier.. The only problem I can see with this is if his opponents underestimated his skill due to him playing on an amateur account, but even so that would not be an issue if MLG had just allowed a proper amount of players to participate.
On April 22 2013 21:13 DJFaqU wrote: Lol @ all the people saying that it's a bad move by MLG. It's the only right thing they could do.
invite noobs over wcs 2012 china winners, and then when the noobs give place to the champ dq the champ 1 game before qualifiy ? its not like comm SMURFED he played under his nick whats a "right move" on it ? shuttle got place in esl same way everyone was "ok nice he got a place haha we so lucky that went well"
no noobs were invited, someone got a spot (due to register on time), comm didn't. so he was not allowed to play. but he did, so MLG dqed him. What should they have done? "oh well, our rules don't matter anyway, get that spot?" he did break the rules and he got banned for it end of story. Not sure what there is to argue here. Doesn't change the fact that this tournament was extremely poorly planned and run, though.
Players must register and use their own MLG Username in order to compete in the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament. Each Player’s registered MLG Username must contain the Player’s correct Name, Mailing Address, and Email Address.
Players must not share the information stored on their MLG Username with another person. This includes, but is not limited to the following: Passwords, Battle.net Accounts, and Email Addresses.
Players may not register for the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament with more than one MLG Username.
Individuals may not use another Player’s Battle.net Account in the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament.
All MLG Usernames are property of Major League Gaming Inc. Any advertising of, or attempts to buy, sell trade, or exchange an MLG Username, by any means, is strictly prohibited.
Breaking any of General Rules #1-5 MAY result in a Forfeit of the Game and/or disqualification from the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament.
Someone made this argument on reddit. The rules say he "may" be disqualified not that he "will" or "must" be disqualified. Thus MLG choosing not to disqualify him due to circumstance would be perfectly ok under the rules.
They might have even chosen the word may just so they could avoid situations like this with better judgement by not being bound to the letter of their rules for the many possible varied situations they do not quite fit. And by choosing not to use the judgement given to them by the rules to not disqualify they made a very poor discussion that deserves discussion and criticism by the community.
Despite all the whining about the WCS NA qualifier, I feel most wronged about hearing what happened to Comm. He played all the games for Christ sake. Additionally to have an arbitrary 512 cap on such a grandiose qualifier is nonsensical to begin with.
On April 22 2013 21:13 DJFaqU wrote: Lol @ all the people saying that it's a bad move by MLG. It's the only right thing they could do.
invite noobs over wcs 2012 china winners, and then when the noobs give place to the champ dq the champ 1 game before qualifiy ? its not like comm SMURFED he played under his nick whats a "right move" on it ? shuttle got place in esl same way everyone was "ok nice he got a place haha we so lucky that went well"
no noobs were invited, someone got a spot (due to register on time), comm didn't. so he was not allowed to play. but he did, so MLG dqed him. What should they have done? "oh well, our rules don't matter anyway, get that spot?" he did break the rules and he got banned for it end of story. Not sure what there is to argue here. Doesn't change the fact that this tournament was extremely poorly planned and run, though.
Players must register and use their own MLG Username in order to compete in the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament. Each Player’s registered MLG Username must contain the Player’s correct Name, Mailing Address, and Email Address.
Players must not share the information stored on their MLG Username with another person. This includes, but is not limited to the following: Passwords, Battle.net Accounts, and Email Addresses.
Players may not register for the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament with more than one MLG Username.
Individuals may not use another Player’s Battle.net Account in the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament.
All MLG Usernames are property of Major League Gaming Inc. Any advertising of, or attempts to buy, sell trade, or exchange an MLG Username, by any means, is strictly prohibited.
Breaking any of General Rules #1-5 MAY result in a Forfeit of the Game and/or disqualification from the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament.
Someone made this argument on reddit. The rules say he "may" be disqualified not that he "will" or "must" be disqualified. Thus MLG choosing not to disqualify him due to circumstance would be perfectly ok under the rules.
They might have even chosen the word may just so they could avoid situations like this with better judgement by not being bound to the letter of their rules for the many possible varied situations they do not quite fit. And by choosing not to use the judgement given to them by the rules to not disqualify they made a very poor discussion that deserves discussion and criticism by the community.
no. it's clearly stated that it is NOT allowed. The fact that "may" as a word was chosen is probably for the other "may"s in the text, to allow stuff like informed switching of Bnet accs if for example bnet has decided it's time to ban somone. It's highly unlikely that "may" refers to incidents as this. You can't break the rules and hope not to be punished, that's delusional. Yes this is a case of someone who should have been able to play and MLG probably knows that their system is really bad. You still are not allowed to do what you want. TBH I don't care about some chinese players I never heard of (but according to the (blind) support in the thread I assume I will hear from them again in the near future), but I care about players I like. I am really sad that Leiya wasn't able to play, I really wanted her to do well, but nobody around here seems to care about people that didn't get in and didn't try to cheat their way in after it.
On April 22 2013 23:46 Joxx wrote: Why didn't Blizzard add a WCS Sea / Oceanic for Chinese, TWese and Australians?
Because it isn't free? They have to justify what they spend their money on to their shareholders. That region just might not be ready for large scale investments yet.
On April 22 2013 23:53 JKM wrote: But but but!? This happened in ESL's WCS.eu qualifier.. The only problem I can see with this is if his opponents underestimated his skill due to him playing on an amateur account, but even so that would not be an issue if MLG had just allowed a proper amount of players to participate.
on liquipedia he was listed as comm as first as i looked so they knew who is playing ... how can peopel defend that move ? with that they have to DQ shuttel from EU too but esl is to classy for that !
On April 22 2013 20:39 Jusba wrote: I hope there will be an mlg boycot. Theres just nothing else to say at this point.
Blizzard should just kick mlg out of wcs as soon as possible.
I can't agree more. MLG admins management have been an insult to players.
I prefer a boycott to Blizzard. A pure failure since sc2 came out and this wcs 2013 announcement reach the coronation. edit: didnt know about the overlap between NA challenger and DH, Blizz is forcing to "cancel" DH...
On April 22 2013 20:39 Jusba wrote: I hope there will be an mlg boycot. Theres just nothing else to say at this point.
Blizzard should just kick mlg out of wcs as soon as possible.
I can't agree more. MLG admins management have been an insult to players.
With such mess organization, I do think NASL would be better for WCS/NA. At least, give some compotition to raise the standard. This is such a disappointing tournament.
On April 22 2013 23:53 JKM wrote: But but but!? This happened in ESL's WCS.eu qualifier.. The only problem I can see with this is if his opponents underestimated his skill due to him playing on an amateur account, but even so that would not be an issue if MLG had just allowed a proper amount of players to participate.
on liquipedia he was listed as comm as first as i looked so they knew who is playing ... how can peopel defend that move ? with that they have to DQ shuttel from EU too but esl is to classy for that !
esl is better in every means. But the DQ from MLG is simply disgusting.
You can't break the rules and hope not to be punished, that's delusional.
In that case what about this?
Results of the matches may not be shared. This means that the matches cannot be streamed, results cannot be shared on social media, or posted on community websites, etc. Failure to comply with this rule may result in disqualificiation. Players who are disqualified won’t receive any benefits (seeding, prize, etc.) for their ranking in the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament. Such Players may also be subject to a Temporary Ban from MLG’s Network of Websites and/or a Ban from a future Event(s).
Demuslim broke this rule when he shared on twitter that he lost to revival.(many other players did to I think) That means he may be disqualified which apparently means must be disqualified. If he is disqualified you agree that he forfeits his position in the challenger league that the top 40 from this qualifier are supposed to get just like comm shouldn't get a spot in after his dq?
If you believe it would be delusional for comm to not be qualified, are you willing to make a thread demanding Demuslim's official disqualification from MLG and not being put into challenger league? They both broke the rules so the only consistent position is to DQ them both right?
If not how can your position be that MLG must follow the letter of their rules for comm don't discuss this but they can chose to ignore the rules for Demuslim? If they can chose to ignore the rules for Demuslim then they could for Comm, thus DQing him was unnecessary and MLG deserves criticism for this choice.
Isn't it the players responsibility to register on time? This doesn't bother me at all. Pro missed his chance for a spot, got an amateur to give him an ID, and played under that name, clearly against the established rules of the tournament, so he got DQ'd. Makes sense.
I do agree however that the Chinese national champ should be in WCS, but it doesnt sound like he registered on time. I'm not saying that there arent a few shady things going on with this tournament, but I dont understand why this is such a big deal.
Please enlighten me if i'm missing something about the story
EDIT: Ah demuslim is one of my favorite players... I was wondering how people were spoiling the matches, kinda ruined it for me but I guess if it was demuslim himself doing that, then that is also against the rules...
On April 23 2013 01:16 TheFlock wrote: Isn't it the players responsibility to register on time? This doesn't bother me at all. Pro missed his chance for a spot, got an amateur to give him an ID, and played under that name, clearly against the established rules of the tournament, so he got DQ'd. Makes sense.
I do agree however that the Chinese national champ should be in WCS, but it doesnt sound like he registered on time. I'm not saying that there arent a few shady things going on with this tournament, but I dont understand why this is such a big deal.
Please enlighten me if i'm missing something about the story
Well you are indeed missing basically everything ^ _ ^ He did register in time, and he checked in, but for some reason MLG didnt put him in the 512 people bracket.
On April 23 2013 01:16 TheFlock wrote: Isn't it the players responsibility to register on time? This doesn't bother me at all. Pro missed his chance for a spot, got an amateur to give him an ID, and played under that name, clearly against the established rules of the tournament, so he got DQ'd. Makes sense.
I do agree however that the Chinese national champ should be in WCS, but it doesnt sound like he registered on time. I'm not saying that there arent a few shady things going on with this tournament, but I dont understand why this is such a big deal.
Please enlighten me if i'm missing something about the story
Well you are indeed missing basically everything ^ _ ^ He did register in time, and he checked in, but for some reason MLG didnt put him in the 512 people bracket.
Do you have a list of everyone that registered, and the order they registered in, then? I'm not sure how you could know that without it.
On April 23 2013 01:16 TheFlock wrote: Isn't it the players responsibility to register on time? This doesn't bother me at all. Pro missed his chance for a spot, got an amateur to give him an ID, and played under that name, clearly against the established rules of the tournament, so he got DQ'd. Makes sense.
I do agree however that the Chinese national champ should be in WCS, but it doesnt sound like he registered on time. I'm not saying that there arent a few shady things going on with this tournament, but I dont understand why this is such a big deal.
Please enlighten me if i'm missing something about the story
Well you are indeed missing basically everything ^ _ ^ He did register in time, and he checked in, but for some reason MLG didnt put him in the 512 people bracket.
Ah okay thanks I must have missed a post explaining that somehow. That is a bummer, considering who he is. Do we know how the people placed in the bracket got their preference?
On April 23 2013 01:16 TheFlock wrote: Isn't it the players responsibility to register on time? This doesn't bother me at all. Pro missed his chance for a spot, got an amateur to give him an ID, and played under that name, clearly against the established rules of the tournament, so he got DQ'd. Makes sense.
I do agree however that the Chinese national champ should be in WCS, but it doesnt sound like he registered on time. I'm not saying that there arent a few shady things going on with this tournament, but I dont understand why this is such a big deal.
Please enlighten me if i'm missing something about the story
Well you are indeed missing basically everything ^ _ ^ He did register in time, and he checked in, but for some reason MLG didnt put him in the 512 people bracket.
Do you have a list of everyone that registered, and the order they registered in, then? I'm not sure how you could know that without it.
Well i'll just take Comm's word for it. As i see no reason for him to lie. That was his statement, translated by granzi on reddit?
Translation of the text in OP's post. Please let me know if there are any errors.
The situation is this: after I knew to register on MLG's website on the 25th, I took the first opportunity to do so; several team members also signed up the first chance they could. This was done by 10 o'clock last night. But we could not find our names later. FruitsBasket is my apprentice, when he saw that the Americans had banned me, he gave me his account to play with. I lost a game in the first round because my internet connection was not properly adjusted, which is also what happened later on in a game against hendralisk that I lost. A mere 2 minutes after the game began, my web dropped and I was penalized by the admin, who said that dropping a game after more than a minute of play would be penalized. After advancing from the first round, FruitsBasket wanted to keep it a secret, so I made a post on the forum. Do you guys know difficult it is for Chinese players to compete at these kind of events? First, just registering is difficult. Then we must start playing at 2am in the middle of the night. Even though I advanced, and theoretically playing 7 best of 3 matches during the day is not tiring, having continued from overnight play and needing to wait in the middle for downtime is [tiring]. Last night in Hangzhou (city in China), it was only a few degrees [as in, it was cold]. infi, they had long gone to bed. I alone persevered in front of the computer; in order not to fall asleep, I continuously splashed my face with cold water. After persisting, by the time I fought THESTC at 10:30 I could not keep my attention focused anymore. I ended up losing, otherwise I would have had a good opportunity to advance. In reality there is no one willing to use an alias to play, but there is no alternative. I wanted to go far in this tournament and prove that Chinese players are skilled. We cannot let the Americans look down at us; we must keep the belief that we can go as far as we want to. In the end this is how the situation ended up. I hope that everyone can continue with their support, even though in these competitions there is no money won from online play. Even though problems appear such as issues with obtaining visas, I stayed up until 11:30 [in the evening of the next day], under pressure, in order to play this game. I just wanted to prove the skill of Chinese e-sport athletes. If MLG believes that I wasn't allowed to play under an alias, if they won't let me play then I will forfeit. But everyone, please continue to support your fellow Chinese. It isn't easy for any of us.
On April 22 2013 21:16 laoji wrote: Bad move, if it was noticed at the start maybe i would have been ok with it but after getting so far they should have just let it go. Bad that he wasn't allowed in in the first place.
It was though, he said who he was, the casters even talked about it...
They knew it from the beginning. And yet DQed comm at final. What's a justice.
On April 22 2013 21:16 laoji wrote: Bad move, if it was noticed at the start maybe i would have been ok with it but after getting so far they should have just let it go. Bad that he wasn't allowed in in the first place.
It was though, he said who he was, the casters even talked about it...
They knew it from the beginning. And yet DQed comm at final. What's a justice.
When the people he played against didn't know who it was, I have trouble believing everyone knew it from the beginning.
On April 23 2013 01:16 TheFlock wrote: Isn't it the players responsibility to register on time? This doesn't bother me at all. Pro missed his chance for a spot, got an amateur to give him an ID, and played under that name, clearly against the established rules of the tournament, so he got DQ'd. Makes sense.
I do agree however that the Chinese national champ should be in WCS, but it doesnt sound like he registered on time. I'm not saying that there arent a few shady things going on with this tournament, but I dont understand why this is such a big deal.
Please enlighten me if i'm missing something about the story
Well you are indeed missing basically everything ^ _ ^ He did register in time, and he checked in, but for some reason MLG didnt put him in the 512 people bracket.
I think thats why people seem to be upset.
He did checked in on time. It's just there are 512 caps and he is recognized as any celebrity.
According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
Wouldn't it be much nicer if he was able to participate in a tournament not half the world away? Too bad they don't have those anymore apparently. Unlike last year...
The pro's really need to be seeded over top of the plebs. I don't understand why MLG is screwing up so much as of late, but it's really embarassing for the NA scene. The guy's at MLG needs to pull their heads out of you know where and stop shaming us all. That may sound a little extreme, but too bad, that's how it is.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
Well, if they follow their rules, then their rules must suck. Besides, their rules explicitely stated that players MAY be disqualified, so they could have leave him off with a slap on his hands but without disqualification and still follow their rules.
On April 23 2013 02:49 zev318 wrote: btw lol @ comm's whole rant about having to stay up for the event. that's what happens when u play in a tournament half the world away.
Yeah since China got shafted for not having a qualifier, despite being a pretty good country for SC2 they were encouraged to play on NA.
TL;DR: Shut up if you don't know what you are talking about.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
On April 23 2013 02:49 zev318 wrote: btw lol @ comm's whole rant about having to stay up for the event. that's what happens when u play in a tournament half the world away.
it's the fucking chinese qualifier too. maybe educate yourself before posting crap helps?
what you call a "rant" is him just describing his situation...
On April 23 2013 02:49 zev318 wrote: btw lol @ comm's whole rant about having to stay up for the event. that's what happens when u play in a tournament half the world away.
Show some respect to pro who work hard everyday so you can have your 15 min of joy.
On April 23 2013 02:49 zev318 wrote: btw lol @ comm's whole rant about having to stay up for the event. that's what happens when u play in a tournament half the world away.
Yeah since China got shafted for not having a qualifier, despite being a pretty good country for SC2 they were encouraged to play on NA.
TL;DR: Shut up if you don't know what you are talking about.
Also I think most the players aren't really upset about having to stay up, but rather that after each round they have to wait a few hours, then if their game was supposed to be aired they have to wait longer than that(Miya said on twitter a match of his being delayed 90 minutes since it was suppose to be on stream). As I read from the complaints, I feel they are more complaining about the disarray of the bracket and pretty much nothing being done to accomidate the players. My personal feeling of the subject is that MLG pretty much made the qualifiers all about them, fucking off players and viewers alike. I mean stopping brackets from being up-to-date is imo disgraceful and not mentioning if you are watching games live or replay is too.
On April 23 2013 02:49 zev318 wrote: btw lol @ comm's whole rant about having to stay up for the event. that's what happens when u play in a tournament half the world away.
What other choice did he have? To get into the korean one he needs to get into code S and since their are no Chinese ones he decided to go for NA since EU is laggy from there.
On April 23 2013 02:49 zev318 wrote: btw lol @ comm's whole rant about having to stay up for the event. that's what happens when u play in a tournament half the world away.
Yeah since China got shafted for not having a qualifier, despite being a pretty good country for SC2 they were encouraged to play on NA.
TL;DR: Shut up if you don't know what you are talking about.
Also I think most the players aren't really upset about having to stay up, but rather that after each round they have to wait a few hours, then if their game was supposed to be aired they have to wait longer than that(Miya said on twitter a match of his being delayed 90 minutes since it was suppose to be on stream). As I read from the complaints, I feel they are more complaining about the disarray of the bracket and pretty much nothing being done to accomidate the players. My personal feeling of the subject is that MLG pretty much made the qualifiers all about them, fucking off players and viewers alike. I mean stopping brackets from being up-to-date is imo disgraceful and not mentioning if you are watching games live or replay is too.
Yeah making people wait for hours in-between their games because there's only ONE stream and they want it on it.... Pretty bad.
MLG should have done the same as in EU, just let the community casters and various other people stream the games. I even watched some of the Russian casts because they had a game on I wanted to watch more.
On April 23 2013 03:06 FrogOfWar wrote: Everybody seems upset about what they did to the Chinese players. So what did they do to the Chinese players, other than this one? Can anyone tell me?
they were told they are checked in and ready to play by an admin. unfortunately he forgot to add them to the grid, so they couldn't play at all. unless with another account that made it into the tiny 512 player bracket. like comm who did play for fruitbasket.
MLG is a joke. I can't believe I am saying ESL did better than them, but ESL was 10x better ran.
People who are saying Comm should be DQ'd? The casters knew from the get go, nobody called him anybody but COMM. The entirety of MLG staff knew, just appears a few amateur players who got matched against him didn't know. He played all the games himself.
Shuttle did this on the EU qualifiers. He is not DQ'd. Crank broke the rules, he is not DQ'd. Demuslim broke the rules, he is not DQ'd. Sooo many people broke the rules.
So I ask you this, do you still think only Comm should be DQ'd, and do you honestly think what he was doing was 'cheating'? Please explain. I also hope you have seen the chat log from the admin before he did this stating he was good to go. He only did this as a last resort because he was lied to multiple multiple times and there was precedent from the EU qualifiers that this was legit.
Stop defending MLG, they fucked it up, and their rules are worded in a form that they 'may' DQ, so its up to them in the long run, its not a 'we must dq him' type of rule
On April 23 2013 03:06 FrogOfWar wrote: Everybody seems upset about what they did to the Chinese players. So what did they do to the Chinese players, other than this one? Can anyone tell me?
Jim and XY from iG were told by MLG admins they are checked in and "good to go", it turns out that they didn't get their spot because checked in only means they are in the queue, which was not notified to them.
I still don't get why should it even matter if Comm was telling who he was. Any pro could decide to change his ID right before registering, it's not against the rules. And the organizers are not obligated to investigate every pro's ID history and inform everyone about it. So, theoretically, any pro could play in this under unknown ID, anyway.
So - that's just not the issue at all! And not why he got DQ'd. He got DQ'd because when you sign up for an event you enter additional personal information, which lets them give you the money prizes, in case you win. And in his case he never registered his personal information. And they can't bend the rule for this case, because it would create a precedent and all kinds of people could start giving false information upon registering and later update it, once they are high up in brackets.
Thus anyway, the DQ is not why we should be angry, we should be angry about the 512 player limit and failure to let all candidates participate in WCS (World Champion Series - emphasis on "world").
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
On April 23 2013 03:22 figq wrote: I still don't get why should it even matter if Comm was telling who he was. Any pro could decide to change his ID right before registering, it's not against the rules. And the organizers are not obligated to investigate every pro's ID history and inform everyone about it. So, theoretically, any pro could play in this under unknown ID, anyway.
So - that's just not the issue at all! And not why he got DQ'd. He got DQ'd because when you sign up for an event you enter additional personal information, which lets them give you the money prizes, in case you win. And in his case he never registered his personal information. And they can't bend the rule for this case, because it would create a precedent and all kinds of people could start giving false information upon registering and later update it, once they are high up in brackets.
Thus anyway, the DQ is not why we should be angry, we should be angry about the 512 player limit and failure to let all candidates participate in WCS (World Champion Series - emphasis on "world").
read my post right above yours at least 10 pro's have broken some kind of rule it appears, yet only comm was DQ'd
and there was precedent, an amateur gave shuttle his spot because shuttle didn't make it in time in EU
edit: at guy below me: no, their rules are not using that context of the word may, you have it backwards, the 'may be DQ'd' in MLG's rules is written in in way that it means 'could potentially happen' or 'the maximum punishment but not neccesarilly always done'.
and i still can't help but say: THERE WAS PRECEDENT FROM EU QUALIFIERS
Hey maybe this is a weird question but is there some point-list which they used to seed people in the US premier league? Like why wasn't Comm seeded in by winning wcs china?
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
U cant just say now its over so live with it, thats just letting MLG doing shit like this and getting away with it. It is not Blizzards fault that MLG cant handle a qualifier for a big event, everyone trusted that MLG could do it cause they are one of if not the biggest esport organisation for many years in the US. So u think they could put some effort into it and put some manpower behind it, Blizzard is paying for their pricemoney and so on. Players have to wait 90min cause they want to steam the game, but later on they spread the broadcast out to stream from replays and hide the results, WTF!! So why not cast from replays all along and dont let players wait for an absurd amount of time between games, or get some more streams running. This part is just about MLG being lazy dont want to pay more employes to get the work done or whatever. Hopefully China will get a WCS event in the next year, but it wasnt possible for Blizzard to accomplish it this year and everyone knew that after WCS was announced, so why cant MLG step up and get some background about the pro teams in China or atleast about last years WCS-China (just look liquipedia, oh these 10-15 minutes for 1 person are way TOO HARD!!!). With not being able cause of fuckups to even get a chance for pros to get into premier/challenger they wont have a chance to get to the WorldCup this year (cause of point system). Theres no understanding how diamond or lower lvl player can get places in a 512 man bracket over well known established pro teams/players.
It just seems MLG wanted to make the maxium profit they could with minimum workforce to pay.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
What was I wrong about?
blaming blizzard instead of MLG. pretty basic.
I said CAN not blame them. I'm just saying, MLG knows their mistakes and will most likely fix it in three months for the next one. Having 4-5 threads in SC2 general spewing hate is redundant, especially when every poster is saying the same thing. When time comes for people to watch the premier event, people will still watch.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
What was I wrong about?
blaming blizzard instead of MLG. pretty basic.
I said CAN not blame them. I'm just saying, MLG knows their mistakes and will most likely fix it in three months for the next one, having 4-5 threads in general threads in hate is redundant, especially when every poster is saying the same thing, but when time comes for people to watch the premier event, people will still watch.
didn't you also say we have to deal with their decision? not untill i hear a good reason why Comm is DQ'd yet Shuttle isn't. And thats not even getting started on the EG and Axiom players who leaked results. Comm and Shuttle did the exact same thing, so i dont think we need to deal with the decision
Problem with next in 3 month is that u dont have a shot for WorldCup this year, dunno if ur overlooking that. These players teams need the exposure/money they could get or plan in advance for this year. Theres no guarantee that u even qualify or get into the qualifier it seems next time and u only got 2 chances out of 3 and players/teams ahead of u with unfair advantage cause of how poorly this qualifier was run now.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
What was I wrong about?
blaming blizzard instead of MLG. pretty basic.
I said CAN not blame them. I'm just saying, MLG knows their mistakes and will most likely fix it in three months for the next one. Having 4-5 threads in SC2 general spewing hate is redundant, especially when every poster is saying the same thing. When time comes for people to watch the premier event, people will still watch.
yeah, instead we need people like you reminding us that MLG will do better and is free of guilt. just as the last time and the time before. MLG will never learn. not with this incompetent CEO and admins.
ESL run an "ok" qualifier for WCS. MLG just fucked up in the same situation.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
What was I wrong about?
blaming blizzard instead of MLG. pretty basic.
I said CAN not blame them. I'm just saying, MLG knows their mistakes and will most likely fix it in three months for the next one, having 4-5 threads in general threads in hate is redundant, especially when every poster is saying the same thing, but when time comes for people to watch the premier event, people will still watch.
didn't you also say we have to deal with their decision? not untill i hear a good reason why Comm is DQ'd yet Shuttle isn't. And thats not even getting started on the EG and Axiom players who leaked results. Comm and Shuttle did the exact same thing, so i dont think we need to deal with the decision
Didn't shuttle play EU? I don't see how this is comparible. MLG didn't run the EU qualifiers. Different organizers have different rules.
On April 23 2013 02:49 zev318 wrote: btw lol @ comm's whole rant about having to stay up for the event. that's what happens when u play in a tournament half the world away.
Show some respect to pro who work hard everyday so you can have your 15 min of joy.
what do they do that gives me 15 min of joy? didnt even watch one second of this shitfest.
that's like telling me to show some respect to baseball players.
On April 23 2013 02:39 KingPaddy wrote: [quote] I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
What was I wrong about?
blaming blizzard instead of MLG. pretty basic.
I said CAN not blame them. I'm just saying, MLG knows their mistakes and will most likely fix it in three months for the next one, having 4-5 threads in general threads in hate is redundant, especially when every poster is saying the same thing, but when time comes for people to watch the premier event, people will still watch.
didn't you also say we have to deal with their decision? not untill i hear a good reason why Comm is DQ'd yet Shuttle isn't. And thats not even getting started on the EG and Axiom players who leaked results. Comm and Shuttle did the exact same thing, so i dont think we need to deal with the decision
Didn't shuttle play EU? I don't see how this is comparible. MLG didn't run the EU qualifiers. Different organizers have different rules.
they could have handled the situation as solid as ESL did. nothing stopped them but there own inconsequence and incompetence.
On April 23 2013 02:39 KingPaddy wrote: [quote] I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
What was I wrong about?
blaming blizzard instead of MLG. pretty basic.
I said CAN not blame them. I'm just saying, MLG knows their mistakes and will most likely fix it in three months for the next one, having 4-5 threads in general threads in hate is redundant, especially when every poster is saying the same thing, but when time comes for people to watch the premier event, people will still watch.
didn't you also say we have to deal with their decision? not untill i hear a good reason why Comm is DQ'd yet Shuttle isn't. And thats not even getting started on the EG and Axiom players who leaked results. Comm and Shuttle did the exact same thing, so i dont think we need to deal with the decision
Didn't shuttle play EU? I don't see how this is comparible. MLG didn't run the EU qualifiers. Different organizers have different rules.
Well, they shouldn't have, really. It's one big tournament, with different regions, yes, but it's unified under the Blizzard roof.
If Blizz had given enough time to plan this out, there's no way they should have had different rules or even different qualifier formats at least in the non-korean regions.
And they could have done it similar to ESL, owning up to their fuck-ups, listening to the community and players and changing things when change is needed if possible. Instead we have silence.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
What was I wrong about?
blaming blizzard instead of MLG. pretty basic.
I said CAN not blame them. I'm just saying, MLG knows their mistakes and will most likely fix it in three months for the next one, having 4-5 threads in general threads in hate is redundant, especially when every poster is saying the same thing, but when time comes for people to watch the premier event, people will still watch.
didn't you also say we have to deal with their decision? not untill i hear a good reason why Comm is DQ'd yet Shuttle isn't. And thats not even getting started on the EG and Axiom players who leaked results. Comm and Shuttle did the exact same thing, so i dont think we need to deal with the decision
Wish people would stop putting words in my mouth. I never said deal, I said move on. Not the same. This will be my last post in this thread because it's redundant and I will just be spewing more redundants.
I am not defending MLG, nor Blizzard. What I am suggesting is that people move on. The decision has been made already, and there is nothing forum posters can do to change a decision that was already made and having 4-5 hate threads on the same set of topics is redundant.
On April 23 2013 02:39 KingPaddy wrote: [quote] I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
What was I wrong about?
blaming blizzard instead of MLG. pretty basic.
I said CAN not blame them. I'm just saying, MLG knows their mistakes and will most likely fix it in three months for the next one, having 4-5 threads in general threads in hate is redundant, especially when every poster is saying the same thing, but when time comes for people to watch the premier event, people will still watch.
didn't you also say we have to deal with their decision? not untill i hear a good reason why Comm is DQ'd yet Shuttle isn't. And thats not even getting started on the EG and Axiom players who leaked results. Comm and Shuttle did the exact same thing, so i dont think we need to deal with the decision
Wish people would stop putting words in my mouth. I never said deal, I said move on. Not the same. This will be my last post in this thread because it's redundant and I will just be spewing more redundants.
I am not defending MLG, nor Blizzard. What I am suggesting is that people move on. The decision has been made already, and there is nothing forum posters can do to change a decision that was already made and having 4-5 hate threads on the same set of topics is redundant.
Sure we can do something about it, just stop watching anything MLG related until WCS NA is shifted to another organisation to handle it and stop supporting MLG with subscribing. Only way they will do something is if their viewership or membership numbers drop.
Wasnt it the 3rd EU qualifier that Shuttle was let in by someone giving up his spot? DQing Shuttle from the 3rd qualifier wouldnt really do anything considering he qualified in the 4th so idk why that's even being brought up
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
Then DQ crank for leaking the results. The rule states both playing under another account and leaking results "MAY" lead to a DQ.
i somewhat agree, and sorry, that means the same to me so i dont see how i 'put words' into your mouth
the community has the power to get things changed, weve seen in the past in other situations, and this is arguably one of the first times its for something thats actually right, i see no reason we shouldn't make the biggest deal out of it possible (if TL allows us), much better than some of the other witchhunts weve had, and i generally hate witchhunts
i could get it if there wasn't precedence for this same exact act in EU, the rules should be the same across the qualifiers, its all the same tourney in the end, and NA has just been handled bad in every area you could critique. If they were hardasses and DQ'd ever single rule breaker id be pissed but not as much so as this 'we fucked comm while so many others are safe' attitude. even sundances tweets are passive aggressive and completely unprofessional
On April 23 2013 03:54 Shellshock1122 wrote: Wasnt it the 3rd EU qualifier that Shuttle was let in by someone giving up his spot? DQing Shuttle from the 3rd qualifier wouldnt really do anything considering he qualified in the 4th so idk why that's even being brought up
If Shuttle would have qualified, i dont think they wouldve DQed him after. Also Comm wasnt qualified yet, he could have also lost and the situation would have been the same like the one with Shuttle. Only thing is WCS EU is ESL and WCS NA is MLG, that they have different rules and very bad communication betweeen the organisation to how run WCS is just sad but thats how it ist.
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
no because as admin you dont put noobs in your bracket and ignore the WCS champs from last year china ... and then when the noob give the wcs champ his place you not fucking DQ him for fixing the problems themselv YOU made before ...
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
i think the anger is from him not getting in on his own account. i mean being wcs champ of china should count for something right? but alas, MLG is proooooooooooo
also has MLG made any sort of statement with regards to all the bullshit from this qualifier yet? sundance only has made a bunch of useless tweets like thing will get better and shit and no real statement on what went wrong.
On April 23 2013 02:44 Spektor wrote: [quote] I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
What was I wrong about?
blaming blizzard instead of MLG. pretty basic.
I said CAN not blame them. I'm just saying, MLG knows their mistakes and will most likely fix it in three months for the next one, having 4-5 threads in general threads in hate is redundant, especially when every poster is saying the same thing, but when time comes for people to watch the premier event, people will still watch.
didn't you also say we have to deal with their decision? not untill i hear a good reason why Comm is DQ'd yet Shuttle isn't. And thats not even getting started on the EG and Axiom players who leaked results. Comm and Shuttle did the exact same thing, so i dont think we need to deal with the decision
Wish people would stop putting words in my mouth. I never said deal, I said move on. Not the same. This will be my last post in this thread because it's redundant and I will just be spewing more redundants.
I am not defending MLG, nor Blizzard. What I am suggesting is that people move on. The decision has been made already, and there is nothing forum posters can do to change a decision that was already made and having 4-5 hate threads on the same set of topics is redundant.
Sure we can do something about it, just stop watching anything MLG related until WCS NA is shifted to another organisation to handle it and stop supporting MLG with subscribing. Only way they will do something is if their viewership or membership numbers drop.
yep we can stop watch mlg, we can cancel gold memberships (which i will do) and stuff like that ... i dont give money to SUCH guys if its to the rules, i dont give money to guys with so bad rules -,-
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
Then DQ crank for leaking the results. The rule states both playing under another account and leaking results "MAY" lead to a DQ.
And/or DQ him right after they know who "Fruitbasket" is. The players know who he is, the casters know, the admins know, and you did nothing but DQ him at the last very moment?
On April 23 2013 03:54 Shellshock1122 wrote: Wasnt it the 3rd EU qualifier that Shuttle was let in by someone giving up his spot? DQing Shuttle from the 3rd qualifier wouldnt really do anything considering he qualified in the 4th so idk why that's even being brought up
If Shuttle would have qualified, i dont think they wouldve DQed him after. Also Comm wasnt qualified yet, he could have also lost and the situation would have been the same like the one with Shuttle. Only thing is WCS EU is ESL and WCS NA is MLG, that they have different rules and very bad communication betweeen the organisation to how run WCS is just sad but thats how it ist.
it's not the rules it's the admins. ESL admins: good decision based on situation. MLG admins: ignore situation to not lose face and DQ. blame rules.
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
Then DQ crank for leaking the results. The rule states both playing under another account and leaking results "MAY" lead to a DQ.
And/or DQ him right after they know who "Fruitbasket" is. The players know who he is, the casters know, the admins know, and you did nothing but DQ him at the last very moment?
Haha maybe they were hoping he'd get eliminated before then Then things maybe wouldn't have turned out this messy..
Or maybe they were just too busy haha. Read somewhere it was just two admins or something..
On April 23 2013 03:54 Shellshock1122 wrote: Wasnt it the 3rd EU qualifier that Shuttle was let in by someone giving up his spot? DQing Shuttle from the 3rd qualifier wouldnt really do anything considering he qualified in the 4th so idk why that's even being brought up
If Shuttle would have qualified, i dont think they wouldve DQed him after. Also Comm wasnt qualified yet, he could have also lost and the situation would have been the same like the one with Shuttle. Only thing is WCS EU is ESL and WCS NA is MLG, that they have different rules and very bad communication betweeen the organisation to how run WCS is just sad but thats how it ist.
it's not the rules it's the admins. ESL admins: good decision based on situation. MLG admins: ignore situation to not lose face and DQ. blame rules.
Yeah ur right, with rules i meant how the people in charge handled to follow the rules they made. Big problem is that they just didnt had enough personal to handle this qualifier and didnt ask for help (i think they could have asked ESL what to expect, they ran online things for long time and WCS EU Qualifier was few days before so u couldve asked). Same problem lies with it, cause they didnt seem to know the top finishers from last years WCS-China or Australia and so on.
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
The entire WCS has come off as rushed. Problems with ESL, MLG and the KOrean league has a prize pool change mid-event. The common thread in all of this is Blizzard.
They chose ESL, They chose MLG, They chose and funded Gretech/Gom etc.
For an example of how you properly support your eSports scene... please examine Riots efforts. Headed up by a former Blizzard employee.
SC2 is a great game and Blizzard deserves credit for making it.
However, Blizzard's SC2 eSports infrastructure and support is not very good relative to the competition.
Of course, Blizzard is not ethically bound to support the eSports scene in any way. But, if the eSports infrastructure is bad it will impact on future sales of games in the Starcraft franchise.
Alot of people coming into this thread late are missing alot of the things weve discussed. TLDR of defense:
1. He signed up, and checked in. Noticed he wasn't in bracket, asked admin if he was checked in, received 'your checked in and good to go' as a reply. 2. Late, he linked the bracket, asked again if he was ok, or if the bracket wasn't finished. The reply was that the bracket was not finalized yet. (screenshot of these 2 events somewhere) 3. He finally found out he was l ied to. His friend had gotten lucky and was in the bracket. Stated he could have his slot. 4. The Casters, Almost every opponent, the Admin, and producion staff knew who he was for like 5 hours of gaming up to his final match in LB i believe before DQ'ing him. 5. Multiple other players in NA have broken rules: Miya, Crank, Demuslim, Incontrol...none punished He played every match, and i believe played them under his own account ingame, only his bracket name was wrong if im not mistaken. And as stated, the EU qualifiers let Shuttle play in this exact same situation, and they are the same tournament.
edit: number 5 and quick question has sundance said anything yet?
On April 23 2013 02:34 Sein wrote: According to TB, Fruitsbasket did play his first match and beat some player before Comm hopped on to play the rest of the tournament? Can someone verify this?
I don't think so. At least Comm himself said, that he didn't and I haven't seen any evidence claiming otherwise.
I think blizzard can check that, but I don't understand how people can blame MLG, they followed their rules. Everyone just loves to hate, 4-5 hate threads.
what part of MAY do you not understand in the rules? MAY means it's up to the admin to decide...
Yeah, 4-5 hate threads help. Also, my point was stop blaming mlg because of a MAY. Decision was made, nothing can be done. Move on. If you want to blame anyone, blame Blizzard for not having all online quals for Korea, then he could've played there and on his time. It should go by continent, but Korea, for some reason is it's own.
you are wrong. i won't blame blizzard although they made BIG mistakes with the WCS general rules.
but this is a qualifier run by MLG. only MLG. and so only MLG fucked up. it is MLGs admins and i don't think anybody there is competent. let alone the mighty sundance that has no clue whats going on in his organisation. if any competent admin would have seen comms situation he would not have been disqualified. he made it so far through the bracket that it invalidates the whole qualifier and his story is far from unbelievable. there is zero reason to dq him before his final game. MLG admins fucked and they just dq him to not lose face and not take the blame for themselves. disgusting.
The entire WCS has come off as rushed. Problems with ESL, MLG and the KOrean league has a prize pool change mid-event. The common thread in all of this is Blizzard.
They chose ESL, They chose MLG, They chose and funded Gretech/Gom etc.
For an example of how you properly support your eSports scene... please examine Riots efforts. Headed up by a former Blizzard employee.
On April 23 2013 04:07 ohampatu wrote: Alot of people coming into this thread late are missing alot of the things weve discussed. TLDR of defense:
1. He signed up, and checked in. Noticed he wasn't in bracket, asked admin if he was checked in, received 'your checked in and good to go' as a reply. 2. Late, he linked the bracket, asked again if he was ok, or if the bracket wasn't finished. The reply was that the bracket was not finalized yet. (screenshot of these 2 events somewhere) 3. He finally found out he was l ied to. His friend had gotten lucky and was in the bracket. Stated he could have his slot. 4. The Casters, Almost every opponent, the Admin, and producion staff knew who he was for like 5 hours of gaming up to his final match in LB i believe before DQ'ing him. 5. Multiple other players in NA have broken rules: Miya, Crank, Demuslim, Incontrol...none punished He played every match, and i believe played them under his own account ingame, only his bracket name was wrong if im not mistaken. And as stated, the EU qualifiers let Shuttle play in this exact same situation, and they are the same tournament.
edit: number 5 and quick question has sundance said anything yet?
I'm speachless.. how can this be.. no no.. after what happend to DeMuslim you realise they dont give a...
On April 23 2013 04:19 SonZHi wrote: Under MLG's rules, the DQ was justified. The qualifier system deserves the criticism and should be changed next time to prevent this kind of problem.
On April 23 2013 04:19 SonZHi wrote: Under MLG's rules, the DQ was justified. The qualifier system deserves the criticism and should be changed next time to prevent this kind of problem.
so the rest should get DQ too?
If they were playing with someone else's Gamebattles/MLG/whatever you want to call it account, then yes.
On April 23 2013 04:19 SonZHi wrote: Under MLG's rules, the DQ was justified. The qualifier system deserves the criticism and should be changed next time to prevent this kind of problem.
so the rest should get DQ too?
If they were playing with someone else's Gamebattles/MLG/whatever you want to call it account, then yes.
On April 23 2013 04:19 SonZHi wrote: Under MLG's rules, the DQ was justified. The qualifier system deserves the criticism and should be changed next time to prevent this kind of problem.
so the rest should get DQ too?
If they were playing with someone else's Gamebattles/MLG/whatever you want to call it account, then yes.
Rules also clearly said leaking results may result in dq, time to dq Crank as well correct?
On April 23 2013 04:19 SonZHi wrote: Under MLG's rules, the DQ was justified. The qualifier system deserves the criticism and should be changed next time to prevent this kind of problem.
so the rest should get DQ too?
Only if another player was disqualified for leaking results. To my knowledge nobody was disqualified for leaks, so the rule was enforced(or I guess in this case not enforced equally). Comparing that rule to impersonating another user, which is what comm got disqualified for, doesnt hold up.
It still baffles me how people are saying "Rules are rules", clearly under the rules it states the "6. Breaking any of General Rules #1-5 may result in a Forfeit of the Game and/or disqualification from the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament."
MAY RESULT, not WILL RESULT
This was all due to an admin's poor decision. These rules were clearly implemented to stop people from doing undesired behaviour. For instance, if a pro-player who is already invited into Premier league, plays under a smurf account to get a 2nd slot, or to get a slot for their friend/teammate.
On April 23 2013 04:19 SonZHi wrote: Under MLG's rules, the DQ was justified. The qualifier system deserves the criticism and should be changed next time to prevent this kind of problem.
so the rest should get DQ too?
Only if another player was disqualified for leaking results. To my knowledge nobody was disqualified for leaks, so the rule was enforced(or I guess in this case not enforced equally). Comparing that rule to impersonating another user, which is what comm got disqualified for, doesnt hold up.
one of the 6 or so points I express in the top talk about that i can understand why you dont like that connection, but this same exact rule was handled different for the EU qualifiers i dont see why the differrent qualifers need all have different rules, they are the same tournament in the end
and the reason he is bringing up crank and the other players is not so much to dq any of them, but to show how MLG has ignored every single rule breaker but Comm, including known hackers
edit: @ up above, yea weve pointed that one out alot as well as the Shuttle comparison, the people against still aren't budging for some reason, i dont see a reason why so many people are actively against reinstating him to be honest, no harm at all in doing whats right here
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
No he wasn't playing under someone's account with the intention of smurfing and pretending to be someone else. He was just borrowing someone's account cause his account didn't get in. No different than when pro gamers borrow NA accounts to play in team leagues or online tourneys.
On April 23 2013 04:19 SonZHi wrote: Under MLG's rules, the DQ was justified. The qualifier system deserves the criticism and should be changed next time to prevent this kind of problem.
so the rest should get DQ too?
Only if another player was disqualified for leaking results. To my knowledge nobody was disqualified for leaks, so the rule was enforced(or I guess in this case not enforced equally). Comparing that rule to impersonating another user, which is what comm got disqualified for, doesnt hold up.
Both rules have the same punishment of MAY result in DQ. if you accept that MLG can chose to ignore one rule, you've accepted that they could have ignored the other rule and did not have to DQ comm. Thus they deserve criticism for this poor decision and can not hide behind just following the rules to the letter.
One more thing that shows what a clusterfuck WCS is. Blizzard jumped the gun and should have laid out the plans better before implementation. Why NA got less slots than EU is beyond me and I don't see what the problem is since the guy gave his spot to comm
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
No he wasn't playing under someone's account with the intention of smurfing and pretending to be someone else. He was just borrowing someone's account cause his account didn't get in. No different than when pro gamers borrow NA accounts to play in team leagues or online tourneys.
Comm used the other players registered MLG account, which is expressly against the rules. If it was just the SC2 account I don't think he would have been disqualified.
Both rules have the same punishment of MAY result in DQ. if you accept that MLG can chose to ignore one rule, you've accepted that they could have ignored the other rule and did not have to DQ comm. Thus they deserve criticism for this poor decision and can not hide behind just following the rules to the letter.
Rules don't work that way. Of course I accept the could have ignored the other rule. But they didn't, and it's their call.
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
No he wasn't playing under someone's account with the intention of smurfing and pretending to be someone else. He was just borrowing someone's account cause his account didn't get in. No different than when pro gamers borrow NA accounts to play in team leagues or online tourneys.
Comm used the other players registered MLG account, which is expressly against the rules. If it was just the SC2 account I don't think he would have been disqualified.
According to this thread, Comm was given the okay to use the other account from the MLG Admins.
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
No he wasn't playing under someone's account with the intention of smurfing and pretending to be someone else. He was just borrowing someone's account cause his account didn't get in. No different than when pro gamers borrow NA accounts to play in team leagues or online tourneys.
Comm used the other players registered MLG account, which is expressly against the rules. If it was just the SC2 account I don't think he would have been disqualified.
That's not a big deal to me. Someone let shuttle use their account when he got locked out. I see the situations as being the same, except ESL isn't inept and didn't dq shuttle on a stupid technicality.
The smurfing rule is put in place to prevent deception and things like MKP playing on barbie's account and then getting her qualified for some event. Comm was just borrowing someone's account, but playing as himself.
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
No he wasn't playing under someone's account with the intention of smurfing and pretending to be someone else. He was just borrowing someone's account cause his account didn't get in. No different than when pro gamers borrow NA accounts to play in team leagues or online tourneys.
Comm used the other players registered MLG account, which is expressly against the rules. If it was just the SC2 account I don't think he would have been disqualified.
According to this thread, Comm was given the okay to use the other account from the MLG Admins.
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
No he wasn't playing under someone's account with the intention of smurfing and pretending to be someone else. He was just borrowing someone's account cause his account didn't get in. No different than when pro gamers borrow NA accounts to play in team leagues or online tourneys.
Comm used the other players registered MLG account, which is expressly against the rules. If it was just the SC2 account I don't think he would have been disqualified.
What is the difference between just SC2 account and MLG account? Why is one worthy of DQ and the other is not, keeping in mind that there were limited qualifier spots and this is the china WCS champion in question?
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
No he wasn't playing under someone's account with the intention of smurfing and pretending to be someone else. He was just borrowing someone's account cause his account didn't get in. No different than when pro gamers borrow NA accounts to play in team leagues or online tourneys.
Comm used the other players registered MLG account, which is expressly against the rules. If it was just the SC2 account I don't think he would have been disqualified.
According to this thread, Comm was given the okay to use the other account from the MLG Admins.
What post was that? I must have missed it.
I can't find it but it was an image of a conversation I assumed comm had with an MLG admin, I'll try to look again.
On April 23 2013 04:31 Jackle wrote: It still baffles me how people are saying "Rules are rules", clearly under the rules it states the "6. Breaking any of General Rules #1-5 may result in a Forfeit of the Game and/or disqualification from the WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament."
MAY RESULT, not WILL RESULT
This was all due to an admin's poor decision. These rules were clearly implemented to stop people from doing undesired behaviour. For instance, if a pro-player who is already invited into Premier league, plays under a smurf account to get a 2nd slot, or to get a slot for their friend/teammate.
You mean like the way quantichyun (if I am remembering the correct player) did (thus disqualifying himself)?
On April 23 2013 04:50 vidium wrote: Map hackers, using someone else's account, broadcasting replays, nice production there MLG...
This too. If I was allowed to cast iG.Macsed's games in Chinese, then there would be a lot of people eager to watch this happening live.
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
No he wasn't playing under someone's account with the intention of smurfing and pretending to be someone else. He was just borrowing someone's account cause his account didn't get in. No different than when pro gamers borrow NA accounts to play in team leagues or online tourneys.
Comm used the other players registered MLG account, which is expressly against the rules. If it was just the SC2 account I don't think he would have been disqualified.
According to this thread, Comm was given the okay to use the other account from the MLG Admins.
What post was that? I must have missed it.
I can't find it but it was an image of a conversation I assumed comm had with an MLG admin, I'll try to look again.
You are probably thinking of the admin telling comm that he was on the bracket when he actually wasn't. The screwup that caused him to use the fruitbasket account in the first place. There is no evidence that admins allowed him to use the other guys account though.
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
No he wasn't playing under someone's account with the intention of smurfing and pretending to be someone else. He was just borrowing someone's account cause his account didn't get in. No different than when pro gamers borrow NA accounts to play in team leagues or online tourneys.
Comm used the other players registered MLG account, which is expressly against the rules. If it was just the SC2 account I don't think he would have been disqualified.
According to this thread, Comm was given the okay to use the other account from the MLG Admins.
What post was that? I must have missed it.
I can't find it but it was an image of a conversation I assumed comm had with an MLG admin, I'll try to look again.
You are probably thinking of the admin telling comm that he was on the bracket when he actually wasn't. The screwup that caused him to use the fruitbasket account in the first place. There is no evidence that admins allowed him to use the other guys account though.
Ah okay, it's hard to know what actually happened when you don't have an official organizations like Blizzard or MLG putting out any information. Not to mention BBS is a horrible way to look for information on threads such as these that can reach over 100 pages and have only 5 useful posts.
On April 23 2013 03:56 rrwrwx wrote: I don't understand the anger. He was playing on someone else's account with a different registed username. Shouldn't he be disqualified for that?
No he wasn't playing under someone's account with the intention of smurfing and pretending to be someone else. He was just borrowing someone's account cause his account didn't get in. No different than when pro gamers borrow NA accounts to play in team leagues or online tourneys.
Comm used the other players registered MLG account, which is expressly against the rules. If it was just the SC2 account I don't think he would have been disqualified.
According to this thread, Comm was given the okay to use the other account from the MLG Admins.
What post was that? I must have missed it.
I can't find it but it was an image of a conversation I assumed comm had with an MLG admin, I'll try to look again.
You are probably thinking of the admin telling comm that he was on the bracket when he actually wasn't. The screwup that caused him to use the fruitbasket account in the first place. There is no evidence that admins allowed him to use the other guys account though.
Ah okay, it's hard to know what actually happened when you don't have an official organizations like Blizzard or MLG putting out any information. Not to mention BBS is a horrible way to look for information on threads such as these that can reach over 100 pages and have only 5 useful posts.
Comm is no longer a member of iG... I don't think he had anything to do with iG this time around to be quite honest. Last team he was on was HuaYi Spider (anyone and their mother could join HuaYi Spider as an "open member", but the ones who perform well consistently are the ones who get paid), and he left them in January of this year.
On April 23 2013 04:46 HappyTimePANDA wrote: One more thing that shows what a clusterfuck WCS is. Blizzard jumped the gun and should have laid out the plans better before implementation. Why NA got less slots than EU is beyond me and I don't see what the problem is since the guy gave his spot to comm
well if you disregard all the koreans who went over to NA to pick up all the free spots I can understand their reasoning for giving EU more slots very well...
the arbitrary application of so many self contradictory rules gives this thing a real Pro Wrestling Feel.
now.. at one of the live events what we need is.. HuK to knock out 1 of the referees with a "foreign object" and we'll have our own version of Monday Night RAW.
On April 23 2013 06:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the arbitrary application of so many self contradictory rules gives this thing a real Pro Wrestling Feel.
now.. at one of the live events what we need is.. HuK to knock out 1 of the referees with a "foreign object" and we'll have our own version of Monday Night RAW.
I think Idra would be more likely to do that... using his keyboard!
On April 23 2013 06:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the arbitrary application of so many self contradictory rules gives this thing a real Pro Wrestling Feel.
now.. at one of the live events what we need is.. HuK to knock out 1 of the referees with a "foreign object" and we'll have our own version of Monday Night RAW.
I think Idra would be more likely to do that... using his keyboard!
On April 23 2013 06:15 Thurken wrote: The problem for me is the fact that he was not informing other players that he was Comm
mrbitter was mentioning it in "the pulse" yesterday. he was open from the beginning, he said hey i am comm. he informed everyone according to mrbitter. stop posting wrong information.
I'd aggree with this decision if he played on someone's else account AND on his, but since he wasn't able to play on his, I don't see any issue there...
He's a WCS National champion and did not receive a seed from Blizzard. That was disappointing.
The MLG format allows 512 seemingly randomly selected players to compete. That was disappointing.
Comm did not make the 512 cut. That was unfortunate.
Comm broke a rule and was disqualified: a punishment defined by the rule broken. That was appropriate.
The rule break could have been caught and handled earlier and differently. That was disappointing.
Maybe the enforcement of the rule made you angry. Be reasonable. Be disappointed. Don't become part of the unreasonably angry mob. Who does that help? It doesn't help Comm, MLG, Blizzard or yourself.
Feedback like "the format could be improved next year by prioritizing professional players" is much more useful than "I hope MLG dies because it's so shit".
Personally, despite the heartbreak, I'm still looking forward to the WCS.
On April 23 2013 06:15 Thurken wrote: The problem for me is the fact that he was not informing other players that he was Comm
mrbitter was mentioning it in "the pulse" yesterday. he was open from the beginning, he said hey i am comm. he informed everyone according to mrbitter. stop posting wrong information.
Other players got seeded into the bracket, why did a WCS-China Champion not ? Just lazy work from MLG to not be up to date with the sc2 scene at all and not doing any research, they had enough time for that. Dont tell me its hard to look up all top 3 finishes for every last WCS Region.
On April 23 2013 06:15 Thurken wrote: The problem for me is the fact that he was not informing other players that he was Comm
mrbitter was mentioning it in "the pulse" yesterday. he was open from the beginning, he said hey i am comm. he informed everyone according to mrbitter. stop posting wrong information.
according to mr bitter he did. theres also a vod available on the official nasl twitch channel http://www.twitch.tv/nasltv/b/394076189 at ~1hour 18 mins he starts talking about this whole thing. later he mentions that comm was completely open with that, even if he wasn't this is just shit. all random koreans are using different tags and noone knows who they are.
On April 23 2013 06:33 Cosmos wrote: I'd aggree with this decision if he played on someone's else account AND on his, but since he wasn't able to play on his, I don't see any issue there...
Yeah. And it's not like it'd be an exception for Joe Pub player. One of the tip top chinese players I think you err on the side of discretion saying "Ok. First season had a lot of chaos... we'll allow it but unconditionally we will DQ in the next round'.
He's a WCS National champion and did not receive a seed from Blizzard. That was disappointing.
The MLG format allows 512 seemingly randomly selected players to compete. That was disappointing.
Comm did not make the 512 cut. That was unfortunate.
Comm broke a rule and was disqualified: a punishment defined by the rule broken. That was appropriate.
The rule break could have been caught and handled earlier and differently. That was disappointing.
Maybe the enforcement of the rule made you angry. Be reasonable. Be disappointed. Don't become part of the unreasonably angry mob. Who does that help? It doesn't help Comm, MLG, Blizzard or yourself.
Feedback like "the format could be improved next year by prioritizing professional players" is much more useful than "I hope MLG dies because it's so shit".
Personally, despite the heartbreak, I'm still looking forward to the WCS.
Feedback like "the format could be improved next year by prioritizing professional players" for the Code S equivalent WCS NA, I mean how dumb do you have to be as an organization to let people who are gold/diamond play in this? They've got no chance to actually get past the first few rounds if they're lucky. I would expect some lesser players in the challenger league qualifiers but not for the Code S equivalent.
[QUOTE]On April 23 2013 06:44 semmeL wrote: Other players got seeded into the bracket, why did a WCS-China Champion not ? Just lazy work from MLG to not be up to date with the sc2 scene at all and not doing any research, they had enough time for that. Dont tell me its hard to look up all top 3 finishes for every last WCS Region.[/QUOTE
I believe this bring back the issue of how we separated the three regions of WCS, and how we enforce the regions separation. NA don't have enough spot to seats all player from all over the world (including EU and Korea participants).
On April 23 2013 06:33 Cosmos wrote: I'd aggree with this decision if he played on someone's else account AND on his, but since he wasn't able to play on his, I don't see any issue there...
If he qualify to play in MLG studio, who should be invited to the tournament.
On April 23 2013 06:15 Thurken wrote: The problem for me is the fact that he was not informing other players that he was Comm
mrbitter was mentioning it in "the pulse" yesterday. he was open from the beginning, he said hey i am comm. he informed everyone according to mrbitter. stop posting wrong information.
according to mr bitter he did. theres also a vod available on the official nasl twitch channel http://www.twitch.tv/nasltv/b/394076189 at ~1hour 18 mins he starts talking about this whole thing. later he mentions that comm was completely open with that, even if he wasn't this is just shit. all random koreans are using different tags and noone knows who they are.
First off, it came from Caliber's own mouth that he didn't represent himself as Comm openly, so whether or not MrBitter said so, doesn't matter. Smurfing and playing on someone elses account are different things. I have a feeling had FruitsBasket and Comm been open about it to the admins from the beginning, then MLG would have allowed him to play.
He's a WCS National champion and did not receive a seed from Blizzard. That was disappointing.
The MLG format allows 512 seemingly randomly selected players to compete. That was disappointing.
Comm did not make the 512 cut. That was unfortunate.
Comm broke a rule and was disqualified: a punishment defined by the rule broken. That was appropriate.
The rule break could have been caught and handled earlier and differently. That was disappointing.
Maybe the enforcement of the rule made you angry. Be reasonable. Be disappointed. Don't become part of the unreasonably angry mob. Who does that help? It doesn't help Comm, MLG, Blizzard or yourself.
Feedback like "the format could be improved next year by prioritizing professional players" is much more useful than "I hope MLG dies because it's so shit".
Personally, despite the heartbreak, I'm still looking forward to the WCS.
Comm broke a rule and was disqualified: a punishment defined by the rule broken. That was appropriate.
Do you feel it would have also been appropriate to chose not to DQ him for the rule because it says may? If not are you disappointed at how inappropriate it is that all the pros who broke the don't reveal results on twitter rule have not been DQ'd for it? If you are ok with that then you agree that MLG can chose not to DQ and that they made a poor choice not to use that ability for comm.
useful than "I hope MLG dies because it's so shit".
I agree that is very inappropriate. You should quote the specific people who said something like that and shame them for it to hopefully discourage it in the future. Otherwise they might think you are talking about everyone else not them.
He's a WCS National champion and did not receive a seed from Blizzard. That was disappointing.
The MLG format allows 512 seemingly randomly selected players to compete. That was disappointing.
Comm did not make the 512 cut. That was unfortunate.
Comm broke a rule and was disqualified: a punishment defined by the rule broken. That was appropriate.
The rule break could have been caught and handled earlier and differently. That was disappointing.
Maybe the enforcement of the rule made you angry. Be reasonable. Be disappointed. Don't become part of the unreasonably angry mob. Who does that help? It doesn't help Comm, MLG, Blizzard or yourself.
Feedback like "the format could be improved next year by prioritizing professional players" is much more useful than "I hope MLG dies because it's so shit".
Personally, despite the heartbreak, I'm still looking forward to the WCS.
Ya that sums it up. MLG should have had better seeded players, and if someone is willing to give up there spot they should allow it. Really blizzard should have been mindful of other players in the first place, though.
On April 23 2013 06:44 semmeL wrote: Other players got seeded into the bracket, why did a WCS-China Champion not ? Just lazy work from MLG to not be up to date with the sc2 scene at all and not doing any research, they had enough time for that. Dont tell me its hard to look up all top 3 finishes for every last WCS Region.
I believe this bring back the issue of how we separated the three regions of WCS, and how we enforce the regions separation. NA don't have enough spot to seats all player from all over the world (including EU and Korea participants).
I dont see where in a 512 qualifier are not enough space for the Progamers from other regions also
On April 23 2013 06:15 Thurken wrote: The problem for me is the fact that he was not informing other players that he was Comm
mrbitter was mentioning it in "the pulse" yesterday. he was open from the beginning, he said hey i am comm. he informed everyone according to mrbitter. stop posting wrong information.
according to mr bitter he did. theres also a vod available on the official nasl twitch channel http://www.twitch.tv/nasltv/b/394076189 at ~1hour 18 mins he starts talking about this whole thing. later he mentions that comm was completely open with that, even if he wasn't this is just shit. all random koreans are using different tags and noone knows who they are.
First off, it came from Caliber's own mouth that he didn't represent himself as Comm openly, so whether or not MrBitter said so, doesn't matter. Smurfing and playing on someone elses account are different things. I have a feeling had FruitsBasket and Comm been open about it to the admins from the beginning, then MLG would have allowed him to play.
i don't see a difference. to exclude these players from the tournament is a big mess up. and to disqualify him after so many things went wrong is unexcusable in my opinion, yes you will come up with the rules thing, but they messed so much up, said that he is already in the bracket even though he wasn't. you can defend mlg as much as you want. but it stays that it was a big mess up to not let the chinese play. and then dq comm after he stayed 2 nights up fighting through the bracket and only failing to win against the STC. I mean if he wins against the stc he is qualified guys, noone cares then. he is through. this is just ridiculous and if you people are trying to tell me that this was a reasonable decision, then i dont think you have a reason.
He's a WCS National champion and did not receive a seed from Blizzard. That was disappointing.
The MLG format allows 512 seemingly randomly selected players to compete. That was disappointing.
Comm did not make the 512 cut. That was unfortunate.
Comm broke a rule and was disqualified: a punishment defined by the rule broken. That was appropriate.
The rule break could have been caught and handled earlier and differently. That was disappointing.
Maybe the enforcement of the rule made you angry. Be reasonable. Be disappointed. Don't become part of the unreasonably angry mob. Who does that help? It doesn't help Comm, MLG, Blizzard or yourself.
Feedback like "the format could be improved next year by prioritizing professional players" is much more useful than "I hope MLG dies because it's so shit".
Personally, despite the heartbreak, I'm still looking forward to the WCS.
I like this attitude. "We made a mistake, or many mistakes, so what? We won't make them next time. Or maybe be we did next time, so what? There's always a next time." That's exactly the attitude that makes esports better and better.
He's a WCS National champion and did not receive a seed from Blizzard. That was disappointing.
The MLG format allows 512 seemingly randomly selected players to compete. That was disappointing.
Comm did not make the 512 cut. That was unfortunate.
Comm broke a rule and was disqualified: a punishment defined by the rule broken. That was appropriate.
The rule break could have been caught and handled earlier and differently. That was disappointing.
Maybe the enforcement of the rule made you angry. Be reasonable. Be disappointed. Don't become part of the unreasonably angry mob. Who does that help? It doesn't help Comm, MLG, Blizzard or yourself.
Feedback like "the format could be improved next year by prioritizing professional players" is much more useful than "I hope MLG dies because it's so shit".
Personally, despite the heartbreak, I'm still looking forward to the WCS.
I like this attitude. "We made a mistake, or many mistakes, so what? We won't make them next time. Or maybe be we did next time, so what? There's always a next time." That's exactly the attitude that makes esports better and better.
and then you finally realize MLG is still a mess because they only invest in their "production" without having a healthy amount of competent admins. it's not like this is the first time MLG admins fuck up. also where is the equivalent to somebody like Shawn or Bashi in ESL? if you run a fucking league give it a face with admins not the CEO that doesn't know anything about the handling of a tournament.
He's a WCS National champion and did not receive a seed from Blizzard. That was disappointing.
The MLG format allows 512 seemingly randomly selected players to compete. That was disappointing.
Comm did not make the 512 cut. That was unfortunate.
Comm broke a rule and was disqualified: a punishment defined by the rule broken. That was appropriate.
The rule break could have been caught and handled earlier and differently. That was disappointing.
Maybe the enforcement of the rule made you angry. Be reasonable. Be disappointed. Don't become part of the unreasonably angry mob. Who does that help? It doesn't help Comm, MLG, Blizzard or yourself.
Feedback like "the format could be improved next year by prioritizing professional players" is much more useful than "I hope MLG dies because it's so shit".
Personally, despite the heartbreak, I'm still looking forward to the WCS.
I like this attitude. "We made a mistake, or many mistakes, so what? We won't make them next time. Or maybe be we did next time, so what? There's always a next time." That's exactly the attitude that makes esports better and better.
and then you finally realize MLG is still a mess because they only invest in their "production" without having a healthy amount of competent admins. it's not like this is the first time MLG admins fuck up. also where is the equivalent to somebody like Shawn or Bashi in ESL? if you run a fucking league give it a face with admins not the CEO that doesn't know anything about the handling of a tournament.
The MLG admins are all hardworking volunteers. Why do you feel the need to shit on them for days. Mistakes were made, let it go.
He's a WCS National champion and did not receive a seed from Blizzard. That was disappointing.
The MLG format allows 512 seemingly randomly selected players to compete. That was disappointing.
Comm did not make the 512 cut. That was unfortunate.
Comm broke a rule and was disqualified: a punishment defined by the rule broken. That was appropriate.
The rule break could have been caught and handled earlier and differently. That was disappointing.
Maybe the enforcement of the rule made you angry. Be reasonable. Be disappointed. Don't become part of the unreasonably angry mob. Who does that help? It doesn't help Comm, MLG, Blizzard or yourself.
Feedback like "the format could be improved next year by prioritizing professional players" is much more useful than "I hope MLG dies because it's so shit".
Personally, despite the heartbreak, I'm still looking forward to the WCS.
I like this attitude. "We made a mistake, or many mistakes, so what? We won't make them next time. Or maybe be we did next time, so what? There's always a next time." That's exactly the attitude that makes esports better and better.
and then you finally realize MLG is still a mess because they only invest in their "production" without having a healthy amount of competent admins. it's not like this is the first time MLG admins fuck up. also where is the equivalent to somebody like Shawn or Bashi in ESL? if you run a fucking league give it a face with admins not the CEO that doesn't know anything about the handling of a tournament.
The MLG admins are all hardworking volunteers. Why do you feel the need to shit on them for days. Mistakes were made, let it go.
because it's obvious they are not enough admins (sundance said it in his statement himlself) and they did an awfull job in the qualifier. see communication with chinese players, not checking for hackers, hyun's case (though they blame blizzard for it). a visible head admin (like Shawn of ESL) is also really helpfull if such a controversy arises in a tournament. perhaps the problem is also that it's only volunteers (if true) and not some paid professionals. just as i said they only invest in visible things like their studio, the background gets neglected.
EPT
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