Really sad for China. I don't see a lot of their players, but the few games I have seen I was very taken with. These guys deserve to have a place in WCS, but the way it's set up good players are going to get screwed in droves.
Firstly, the open bracket needed to be waaay bigger, but MLG needed to communicate that there was a que in light of the fact that it wasn't bigger.
That being said, I think people are overreacting to the "good to go" comment. That wasn't the mistake, the mistake was not communicating to the general public that there was a que, and that it was going to work on a first come first serve basis. I have to imagine the false hope is the more painful part of the experience.
It is a big deal for these players because they are essentially screwed out of the global finals unless a bunch of low point players upset all the seeds from this season.
Next year will be better, so it isn't totally the end of the world. Still, that's a fucking long time to wait. + Show Spoiler +
MLG flies Chinese players to Spring Championships for a showmatch event to make up for it?
On April 22 2013 02:27 Plansix wrote: [quote] They may have overlooked the Chinese players, which is not surprising since this is the first I have heard of them
So your personal ignorance of the Chinese SC2 scene is a good enough excuse for there not to be reservations for Chinese pros?
Yep. MLG is not responsible to assure that every single professional from every single time makes it into the open qualifier. If the Chinese teams wanted to be in this event, they should have lobbied MLG for one of those 64 slots once they saw that all of NA could sign up free of charge.
Which according to the screenshot they did, they pm-ed an admin asking for verification that their players were included, then they suddenly becomes un-included.
Do you read or do you just make assumptions?
@MLGSundance Chinese players missed que times. 1000+ players tried to get into a 512 person event. Twitch mods chat not us. Blizz wants all game on WCS.
@SaintSnorlax @MLGSundance your word against theirs, regarding the Chinese players. They screencapped your admin saying they're good to go.
@MLGSundance checked in = in the que.
ambiguous but it doesn't say that the player was in the 512.
We had 1000 players que
It was a 1000 person que for 512 slots. They missed out like the other 488 players who showed up after the 512 that got in.
Which makes no sense for the admin to say you are good to go. What kind of unprofessional answer is that? Why would you even use ambiguous language with people who's first language may not be English? Sundance goes from missing the queue times to checked in to the 1000 player queue.
As someone who gives professional answers to people all the time, its fine. He doesn't need to use expressly clear language to make sure they perfectly understand everything along the way. The players asked if they were signed in. He said "Yep, good to go" and then moved on. It isn't his job to explain to them that there is a que to get into the brackets.
So the players didn't even know that there would be a que, nor was there any information of the process of the tournament, that's interesting to know.
Its on the website in big red letters under "WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament" that clearly explains how the que works. It says IMPORTANT and has a link to a thread about how 512 people already signed up and the que was full. What the fuck else do you want, MLG to read it to them in Chinese to make sure they got it?
Yeah ok everybody should know now, that the rules regarding the spots were clear and that players like Oz and Alicia signed up so late because they had reserved slots. But the key is why are there reserve Slots for worse players and why MLG messed up the whole Qualifier so badly. And why for example MacSad got a slot and other iG Members didn't though they all registered at the same time??? Don't understand how you can defend MLG for this mess. And i bet u don't have an answer to that key point sice you don't work for MLG, hopefully
Did all the players register at the same time? How do we know that? I can only find the registration times for the players who were in the event.
So your personal ignorance of the Chinese SC2 scene is a good enough excuse for there not to be reservations for Chinese pros?
Yep. MLG is not responsible to assure that every single professional from every single time makes it into the open qualifier. If the Chinese teams wanted to be in this event, they should have lobbied MLG for one of those 64 slots once they saw that all of NA could sign up free of charge.
Which according to the screenshot they did, they pm-ed an admin asking for verification that their players were included, then they suddenly becomes un-included.
Do you read or do you just make assumptions?
@MLGSundance Chinese players missed que times. 1000+ players tried to get into a 512 person event. Twitch mods chat not us. Blizz wants all game on WCS.
@SaintSnorlax @MLGSundance your word against theirs, regarding the Chinese players. They screencapped your admin saying they're good to go.
@MLGSundance checked in = in the que.
ambiguous but it doesn't say that the player was in the 512.
We had 1000 players que
It was a 1000 person que for 512 slots. They missed out like the other 488 players who showed up after the 512 that got in.
Which makes no sense for the admin to say you are good to go. What kind of unprofessional answer is that? Why would you even use ambiguous language with people who's first language may not be English? Sundance goes from missing the queue times to checked in to the 1000 player queue.
As someone who gives professional answers to people all the time, its fine. He doesn't need to use expressly clear language to make sure they perfectly understand everything along the way. The players asked if they were signed in. He said "Yep, good to go" and then moved on. It isn't his job to explain to them that there is a que to get into the brackets.
So the players didn't even know that there would be a que, nor was there any information of the process of the tournament, that's interesting to know.
Its on the website in big red letters under "WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament" that clearly explains how the que works. It says IMPORTANT and has a link to a thread about how 512 people already signed up and the que was full. What the fuck else do you want, MLG to read it to them in Chinese to make sure they got it?
They register in top 512, and not listed in bracket, thats what i am saying here. If they are not register in top 512, there will be no complain.
Do you have a link for that information? I can't find where any of the Chinese players signed up.
Some of the Chinese players should have been seeded. Really poor form that none of them were, even based on WCS results.
The fact they weren't meant that they more than anyone should have been absolutely cast iron guaranteed to be in the 512 person line-up. But of course they aren't on famous teams. MLG has shown themselves to be utterly incompetent in running these qualifiers. After ESL's screw ups they now seem like masters of organisation in comparison.
I'm going to take a shower and get on with my day... this is too depressing to stay here and keep debating on.
In closing I will say that I hope next year's WCS reverts to the 2012 year method. "When in Rome, do as Romans do." Blizzard marketed their product and the eSports market for everyone except China. HoTS isn't even released in China, which forces all Chinese pros to practice on the Korean server. Even worse is for them to have a chance at WCS finals, they have to compete on NA or EU.
I have an upcoming showmatch that will be sponsored by a team that will remain unnamed for the time being. My goal will be to show everyone in the western world just what kind of market can be found in China and Taiwan.
Thank you all for your time and intelligent contributions here.
So your personal ignorance of the Chinese SC2 scene is a good enough excuse for there not to be reservations for Chinese pros?
Yep. MLG is not responsible to assure that every single professional from every single time makes it into the open qualifier. If the Chinese teams wanted to be in this event, they should have lobbied MLG for one of those 64 slots once they saw that all of NA could sign up free of charge.
Which according to the screenshot they did, they pm-ed an admin asking for verification that their players were included, then they suddenly becomes un-included.
Do you read or do you just make assumptions?
@MLGSundance Chinese players missed que times. 1000+ players tried to get into a 512 person event. Twitch mods chat not us. Blizz wants all game on WCS.
@SaintSnorlax @MLGSundance your word against theirs, regarding the Chinese players. They screencapped your admin saying they're good to go.
@MLGSundance checked in = in the que.
ambiguous but it doesn't say that the player was in the 512.
We had 1000 players que
It was a 1000 person que for 512 slots. They missed out like the other 488 players who showed up after the 512 that got in.
Which makes no sense for the admin to say you are good to go. What kind of unprofessional answer is that? Why would you even use ambiguous language with people who's first language may not be English? Sundance goes from missing the queue times to checked in to the 1000 player queue.
As someone who gives professional answers to people all the time, its fine. He doesn't need to use expressly clear language to make sure they perfectly understand everything along the way. The players asked if they were signed in. He said "Yep, good to go" and then moved on. It isn't his job to explain to them that there is a que to get into the brackets.
So the players didn't even know that there would be a que, nor was there any information of the process of the tournament, that's interesting to know.
Its on the website in big red letters under "WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament" that clearly explains how the que works. It says IMPORTANT and has a link to a thread about how 512 people already signed up and the que was full. What the fuck else do you want, MLG to read it to them in Chinese to make sure they got it?
Yeah ok everybody should know now, that the rules regarding the spots were clear and that players like Oz and Alicia signed up so late because they had reserved slots. But the key is why are there reserve Slots for worse players and why MLG messed up the whole Qualifier so badly. And why for example MacSad got a slot and other iG Members didn't though they all registered at the same time??? Don't understand how you can defend MLG for this mess. And i bet u don't have an answer to that key point sice you don't work for MLG, hopefully
Did all the players register at the same time? How do we know that? I can only find the registration times for the players who were in the event.
Mate, because of these late enroll seeds, MLG tick off people should be in the bracket, i am not only talking about chinese player, and also some players from SEA server.
On April 22 2013 03:24 Enders116 wrote: I'm going to take a shower and get on with my day... this is too depressing to stay here and keep debating on.
In closing I will say that I hope next year's WCS reverts to the 2012 year method. "When in Rome, do as Romans do." Blizzard marketed their product and the eSports market for everyone except China. HoTS isn't even released in China, which forces all Chinese pros to practice on the Korean server. Even worse is for them to have a chance at WCS finals, they have to compete on NA or EU.
I have an upcoming showmatch that will be sponsored by a team that will remain unnamed for the time being. My goal will be to show everyone in the western world just what kind of market can be found in China and Taiwan.
Thank you all for your time and intelligent contributions here.
Thank you for your support bin ge. Have a nice day ^^
So your personal ignorance of the Chinese SC2 scene is a good enough excuse for there not to be reservations for Chinese pros?
Yep. MLG is not responsible to assure that every single professional from every single time makes it into the open qualifier. If the Chinese teams wanted to be in this event, they should have lobbied MLG for one of those 64 slots once they saw that all of NA could sign up free of charge.
Which according to the screenshot they did, they pm-ed an admin asking for verification that their players were included, then they suddenly becomes un-included.
Do you read or do you just make assumptions?
@MLGSundance Chinese players missed que times. 1000+ players tried to get into a 512 person event. Twitch mods chat not us. Blizz wants all game on WCS.
@SaintSnorlax @MLGSundance your word against theirs, regarding the Chinese players. They screencapped your admin saying they're good to go.
@MLGSundance checked in = in the que.
ambiguous but it doesn't say that the player was in the 512.
We had 1000 players que
It was a 1000 person que for 512 slots. They missed out like the other 488 players who showed up after the 512 that got in.
Which makes no sense for the admin to say you are good to go. What kind of unprofessional answer is that? Why would you even use ambiguous language with people who's first language may not be English? Sundance goes from missing the queue times to checked in to the 1000 player queue.
As someone who gives professional answers to people all the time, its fine. He doesn't need to use expressly clear language to make sure they perfectly understand everything along the way. The players asked if they were signed in. He said "Yep, good to go" and then moved on. It isn't his job to explain to them that there is a que to get into the brackets.
So the players didn't even know that there would be a que, nor was there any information of the process of the tournament, that's interesting to know.
Its on the website in big red letters under "WCS America Season 1 Qualifying Tournament" that clearly explains how the que works. It says IMPORTANT and has a link to a thread about how 512 people already signed up and the que was full. What the fuck else do you want, MLG to read it to them in Chinese to make sure they got it?
Yeah ok everybody should know now, that the rules regarding the spots were clear and that players like Oz and Alicia signed up so late because they had reserved slots. But the key is why are there reserve Slots for worse players and why MLG messed up the whole Qualifier so badly. And why for example MacSad got a slot and other iG Members didn't though they all registered at the same time??? Don't understand how you can defend MLG for this mess. And i bet u don't have an answer to that key point sice you don't work for MLG, hopefully
Did all the players register at the same time? How do we know that? I can only find the registration times for the players who were in the event.
read the thread, was pointed out several times before.. Don't know how exact the sources are. Dosn't change that failure of MLG
Blizzard doesn't support the Chinese scene because there is no money there. Blizzard is in for this all for the money. Forcing streams to use Blizzards own twitch channels, and choosing the biggest 3 regions.
On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote: [quote] You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up.
then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in?
(any proof to the counter would also be welcome)
even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in?
They may have overlooked the Chinese players, which is not surprising since this is the first I have heard of them
So your personal ignorance of the Chinese SC2 scene is a good enough excuse for there not to be reservations for Chinese pros?
Yep. MLG is not responsible to assure that every single professional from every single time makes it into the open qualifier. If the Chinese teams wanted to be in this event, they should have lobbied MLG for one of those 64 slots once they saw that all of NA could sign up free of charge.
Which according to the screenshot they did, they pm-ed an admin asking for verification that their players were included, then they suddenly becomes un-included.
Do you read or do you just make assumptions?
@MLGSundance Chinese players missed que times. 1000+ players tried to get into a 512 person event. Twitch mods chat not us. Blizz wants all game on WCS.
@SaintSnorlax @MLGSundance your word against theirs, regarding the Chinese players. They screencapped your admin saying they're good to go.
@MLGSundance checked in = in the que.
ambiguous but it doesn't say that the player was in the 512.
We had 1000 players que
It was a 1000 person que for 512 slots. They missed out like the other 488 players who showed up after the 512 that got in.
Which makes no sense for the admin to say you are good to go. What kind of unprofessional answer is that? Why would you even use ambiguous language with people who's first language may not be English? Sundance goes from missing the queue times to checked in to the 1000 player queue.
Plus there is no rule about queues as far as I looked up on the gamebattles website.
"IMPORTANT - Check In Procedure Information (LINK)
Check In starts at 10 AM EDT on Saturday, April 20th and runs to 12:50 PM EDT on Saturday, April 20th You MUST Check In, in order to be seeded into the Bracket. Failure to Check In during the Check In times will exclude you from the bracket. If more than 512 players register, including reserved spots, and check-in by 12:50 pm ET on Saturday (4/20), seeds will be distributed according to the order in which players registered. Check-in order will not influence who does, and who does not get into the bracket. In the event that more players check in than bracket positions are available for, the bracket will not be expanded past 512 players."
It is in 36-42 font, red and in the center of the page. And I stand corrected: The que is in the order of when people signed up for the event. Sign in time had nothing to do with it. So the Chinese players registered later that the other 512 people.
OK I get it, at least there is indeed information.
On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote: [quote] You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up.
then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in?
(any proof to the counter would also be welcome)
even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in?
They may have overlooked the Chinese players, which is not surprising since this is the first I have heard of them
So your personal ignorance of the Chinese SC2 scene is a good enough excuse for there not to be reservations for Chinese pros?
Yep. MLG is not responsible to assure that every single professional from every single time makes it into the open qualifier. If the Chinese teams wanted to be in this event, they should have lobbied MLG for one of those 64 slots once they saw that all of NA could sign up free of charge.
Which according to the screenshot they did, they pm-ed an admin asking for verification that their players were included, then they suddenly becomes un-included.
Do you read or do you just make assumptions?
@MLGSundance Chinese players missed que times. 1000+ players tried to get into a 512 person event. Twitch mods chat not us. Blizz wants all game on WCS.
@SaintSnorlax @MLGSundance your word against theirs, regarding the Chinese players. They screencapped your admin saying they're good to go.
@MLGSundance checked in = in the que.
ambiguous but it doesn't say that the player was in the 512.
We had 1000 players que
It was a 1000 person que for 512 slots. They missed out like the other 488 players who showed up after the 512 that got in.
Which makes no sense for the admin to say you are good to go. What kind of unprofessional answer is that? Why would you even use ambiguous language with people who's first language may not be English? Sundance goes from missing the queue times to checked in to the 1000 player queue.
Plus there is no rule about queues as far as I looked up on the gamebattles website.
"IMPORTANT - Check In Procedure Information (LINK)
Check In starts at 10 AM EDT on Saturday, April 20th and runs to 12:50 PM EDT on Saturday, April 20th You MUST Check In, in order to be seeded into the Bracket. Failure to Check In during the Check In times will exclude you from the bracket. If more than 512 players register, including reserved spots, and check-in by 12:50 pm ET on Saturday (4/20), seeds will be distributed according to the order in which players registered. Check-in order will not influence who does, and who does not get into the bracket. In the event that more players check in than bracket positions are available for, the bracket will not be expanded past 512 players."
It is in 36-42 font, red and in the center of the page. And I stand corrected: The que is in the order of when people signed up for the event. Sign in time had nothing to do with it. So the Chinese players registered later that the other 512 people.
1. Claiming that an admin telling you that "you are checked in and good to go" is ambigous is nothing but ridiculous.
2. Who at MLG thought that the musical chairs concept "The first guys who register get to play" is a good way to run a World Championship?
This is an embarassment for SC2 and an insult to the Chinese community who got screwed over often enough already.
On April 22 2013 03:28 JustPassingBy wrote: Quick question, what is the whole Comm <-> Fruitbasket story?
apparently FruitsBasket is just some random Chinese amateur. Some guy on the Chinese forums claimed FruitsBasket gave Comm his account after round 1 because Comm didnt get in. The guy got banned for harassing pros or something. Nothing has been proven. Apparently FruitsBasket owned some people so there were rumors that it was Comm smurf.
then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in?
(any proof to the counter would also be welcome)
even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in?
They may have overlooked the Chinese players, which is not surprising since this is the first I have heard of them
So your personal ignorance of the Chinese SC2 scene is a good enough excuse for there not to be reservations for Chinese pros?
Yep. MLG is not responsible to assure that every single professional from every single time makes it into the open qualifier. If the Chinese teams wanted to be in this event, they should have lobbied MLG for one of those 64 slots once they saw that all of NA could sign up free of charge.
Which according to the screenshot they did, they pm-ed an admin asking for verification that their players were included, then they suddenly becomes un-included.
Do you read or do you just make assumptions?
@MLGSundance Chinese players missed que times. 1000+ players tried to get into a 512 person event. Twitch mods chat not us. Blizz wants all game on WCS.
@SaintSnorlax @MLGSundance your word against theirs, regarding the Chinese players. They screencapped your admin saying they're good to go.
@MLGSundance checked in = in the que.
ambiguous but it doesn't say that the player was in the 512.
We had 1000 players que
It was a 1000 person que for 512 slots. They missed out like the other 488 players who showed up after the 512 that got in.
Which makes no sense for the admin to say you are good to go. What kind of unprofessional answer is that? Why would you even use ambiguous language with people who's first language may not be English? Sundance goes from missing the queue times to checked in to the 1000 player queue.
Plus there is no rule about queues as far as I looked up on the gamebattles website.
"IMPORTANT - Check In Procedure Information (LINK)
Check In starts at 10 AM EDT on Saturday, April 20th and runs to 12:50 PM EDT on Saturday, April 20th You MUST Check In, in order to be seeded into the Bracket. Failure to Check In during the Check In times will exclude you from the bracket. If more than 512 players register, including reserved spots, and check-in by 12:50 pm ET on Saturday (4/20), seeds will be distributed according to the order in which players registered. Check-in order will not influence who does, and who does not get into the bracket. In the event that more players check in than bracket positions are available for, the bracket will not be expanded past 512 players."
It is in 36-42 font, red and in the center of the page. And I stand corrected: The que is in the order of when people signed up for the event. Sign in time had nothing to do with it. So the Chinese players registered later that the other 512 people.
1. Claiming that an admin telling you that "you are checked in and good to go" is ambigous is nothing but ridiculous.
2. Who at MLG thought that the musical chairs concept "The first guys who register get to play" is a good way to run a World Championship?
This is an embarassment for SC2 and an insult to the Chinese community who got screwed over often enough already.
Absolutely. Its an absolutely shameful reflection on MLG organisation as a whole. Their complete lack of communication about the issues apart from a few things which are completely insufficient also speaks volumes. They hope it will just go away. Their incompetence has affected the legitimacy of the whole tournament.
On April 22 2013 03:28 JustPassingBy wrote: Quick question, what is the whole Comm <-> Fruitbasket story?
apparently FruitsBasket is just some random Chinese amateur. Some guy on the Chinese forums claimed FruitsBasket gave Comm his account after round 1 because Comm didnt get in. The guy got banned for harassing pros or something. Nothing has been proven. Apparently FruitsBasket owned some people so there were rumors that it was Comm smurf.
On April 22 2013 03:28 JustPassingBy wrote: Quick question, what is the whole Comm <-> Fruitbasket story?
apparently FruitsBasket is just some random Chinese amateur. Some guy on the Chinese forums claimed FruitsBasket gave Comm his account after round 1 because Comm didnt get in. The guy got banned for harassing pros or something. Nothing has been proven. Apparently FruitsBasket owned some people so there were rumors that it was Comm smurf.
Comm posted on the Chinese Starcraft II forum himself. I can confirm that cuz he has a IDENTIFIED badge in that forum and I'm one of the guys from that forum. Here is the orginal post in that Chinese community.
EPT
