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On April 05 2013 03:25 StrifeIsBack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:18 Type|NarutO wrote:
No one is argueing that we need leagues in NA/EU. People are argueing about Korean participation should be allowed or not.
The thread is technically about why we prefer foreigners over koreans. Not either of the two things brought about in my quote or your quote. Yet in my previous post I go on to talk about why I prefer foreigners over koreans, and why koreans are bad for SC2 and esports as a whole.
Bad for Starcraft 2 and eSports as a whole, you cannot be serious. Really you cannot.
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I dont think having foreigner only tourneys is such a bad idea. My only thing is if ur gonna make it foreigner only then do it all the way. I hate when tourneys go the WCS way and artificially inflate foreigner numbers by giving out unbalanced numbers of slots, making it tough for koreans to attend, etc. It creates situations with having shitty unbalanced games which are bad for everybody. Foreigner only tourneys can be succesful. Just look ag TSL in the last years of BW. They always had great viewership even tho the skill level was obv miles below top koreans. But now picture flash or JD attending one of those TSL's and who would care to watch it anymore except to see how badly foreigners get stomped? This is the type of situations tourneys create by trying to find this artificially created middle ground. Make it all or nothing
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screw all you damn elitists who only want to see the best players compete. i think this is actually a very good idea. we can call it kitten league! fun!
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On April 05 2013 03:21 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:19 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 03:15 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 03:01 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:34 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:31 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:25 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:22 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:17 Technique wrote:
It's simple, people need to stop laddering and stop streaming.
And actually get together and practice properly... don't need a ''practice house'' for this... just a few like minded top players. Professional coaching is a critical part of practice and that is one area where NA and EU simply lacks professionals who can fill that role. Everyone does better with a coach in all aspects of competition and the Olympics has proven this over and over. Management of your practice schedule and objective review of your performance is key to success in any competitive field and it is a key area that NA and EU teams need to double down on. Players can coach/help each other... it's the most effective thing in such a ''new'' sport/game since there won't be a guy who ''done'' and ''seen'' it all like some old boxing coach or w/e. Also if this is all you do... who needs a schedule? Just keep massing those practice games together... If it were that easy, people would just do it. That is not the type of system that the Kespa teams have and they are doing the best right now. Kespa teams have coaches that schedule, review games and manage the players, the amount they practice and what they practice. There is a reason Coach Park has the most winning record of all the Kespa coaches and his teams do the best. They don't just mass practice, they practice better than other teams because he manages how they practice. Pretty sure people have done exactly what i said and became top players... Thing is however... Korea simply has MUCH more serious rts players... that's all there is to it. Flash and Life did not do that. Neither did Parting. They all had coaches, teams and groups around them managing them, helping them practice. These players did not become amazing just by grinding out games together. Its not about man hours and dedication, its about infrastructure. A coach can't do anything a group of dedicated players can't do for there selfs... Problem is players are streaming and laddering instead, which really is a time waste... Artosis and every professional in the industry disagrees with you and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor that players do better with coaches. A group of passionate, dedicated players will not do as well as the same group with a professional coach. Coach Park is the best example, who lead every team he coached to a winning record and the play offs in Proleague. You also don't understand why NA teams stream, even on TL, who has korean players that stream. They don't do it for the money from streaming, but to provide numbers to their sponsors, who support the teams ability to travel to different events. Ok tell me one thing that coach can do that a dedicated player can't do on his own? It's all about self discipline. Those coaches got nothing to teach... this ain't some old sport like boxing/football etc... Also you think i don't understand they stream for money because i say it's a time waste? I was speaking from a point of view were players try to catch up to the Korean skill level... streaming and long ladder sessions can't be part of that. Mindset, mentality, stress handling, scheduling, offering a neutral observation of your game. Why do professional sport athletes have coaches? Because they do have insight.
A coach can't have a proper observation of your game unless he's as high a level as you are... which like i said before, players can help each other with such ''coaching''. The offline tournament stress should be gone after a few tournaments as well.
And didn't i mention that you can't compare this to old sports? For obvious reasons.
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On April 05 2013 03:19 Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:15 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 03:01 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:34 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:31 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:25 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:22 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:17 Technique wrote:
It's simple, people need to stop laddering and stop streaming.
And actually get together and practice properly... don't need a ''practice house'' for this... just a few like minded top players. Professional coaching is a critical part of practice and that is one area where NA and EU simply lacks professionals who can fill that role. Everyone does better with a coach in all aspects of competition and the Olympics has proven this over and over. Management of your practice schedule and objective review of your performance is key to success in any competitive field and it is a key area that NA and EU teams need to double down on. Players can coach/help each other... it's the most effective thing in such a ''new'' sport/game since there won't be a guy who ''done'' and ''seen'' it all like some old boxing coach or w/e. Also if this is all you do... who needs a schedule? Just keep massing those practice games together... If it were that easy, people would just do it. That is not the type of system that the Kespa teams have and they are doing the best right now. Kespa teams have coaches that schedule, review games and manage the players, the amount they practice and what they practice. There is a reason Coach Park has the most winning record of all the Kespa coaches and his teams do the best. They don't just mass practice, they practice better than other teams because he manages how they practice. Pretty sure people have done exactly what i said and became top players... Thing is however... Korea simply has MUCH more serious rts players... that's all there is to it. Flash and Life did not do that. Neither did Parting. They all had coaches, teams and groups around them managing them, helping them practice. These players did not become amazing just by grinding out games together. Its not about man hours and dedication, its about infrastructure. A coach can't do anything a group of dedicated players can't do for there selfs... Problem is players are streaming and laddering instead, which really is a time waste... Artosis and every professional in the industry disagrees with you and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor that players do better with coaches. A group of passionate, dedicated players will not do as well as the same group with a professional coach. Coach Park is the best example, who lead every team he coached to a winning record and the play offs in Proleague. You also don't understand why NA teams stream, even on TL, who has korean players that stream. They don't do it for the money from streaming, but to provide numbers to their sponsors, who support the teams ability to travel to different events. Ok tell me one thing that coach can do that a dedicated player can't do on his own? It's all about self discipline. Those coaches got nothing to teach... this ain't some old sport like boxing/football etc... Also you think i don't understand they stream for money because i say it's a time waste? I was speaking from a point of view were players try to catch up to the Korean skill level... streaming and long ladder sessions can't be part of that.
You do know that Coach Park is an ex-professional player right? You do know his teams were the must successful in Proleague, one of the hardest leagues in BW? Don't need to prove anything, because he has already proven my point for me. You say that teams don't need coaches, well Liquid Naz'gul disagrees and hired Coach Park to train TL in Korea. Are you saying that you know more about running a team than Liquid Naz'gul?
Also, Liquid Naz'gul has Hero stream in Korea, because he needs to keep their sponsors for TL. Are you saying that you know more about the business of running a team than Liquid Naz'gul?
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On April 05 2013 03:26 antelope591 wrote:
I dont think having foreigner only tourneys is such a bad idea. My only thing is if ur gonna make it foreigner only then do it all the way. I hate when tourneys go the WCS way and artificially inflate foreigner numbers by giving out unbalanced numbers of slots, making it tough for koreans to attend, etc. It creates situations with having shitty unbalanced games which are bad for everybody. Foreigner only tourneys can be succesful. Just look ag TSL in the last years of BW. They always had great viewership even tho the skill level was obv miles below top koreans. But now picture flash or JD attending one of those TSL's and who would care to watch it anymore except to see how badly foreigners get stomped? This is the type of situations tourneys create by trying to find this artificially created middle ground. Make it all or nothing
I don't know how different the SC2 community is from the BW community, but if you had JD or Flash playing in TSL2 for example the viewership would increase ten fold.
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High prize money tournaments will attract the best players. Supply and demand - simple business.
Yes, I'd like to see an underdog fighting his way through the tough competition of faceless Koreans, but that's not going to happen - They practice far too much. (Stephano talked on stream about his training intensity. Even if Stephano is a bit "lazy", it is in no way comparable to Korean training schedule)
Continental championships would be cool, just because the whole scene is concentrated on 1. Korea, 2. North/Eastern Europe, 3. US - What's about good players from places like Latin America (I know there are some like MajOr, but they still compete in the US or Korean scene)?
But if there is no global regulation office, such a thing won't happen, and we will still see Koreans getting the prize share they deserve.
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On April 05 2013 02:17 Technique wrote:
It's simple, people need to stop laddering and stop streaming.
And actually get together and practice properly... don't need a ''practice house'' for this... just a few like minded top players.
okay, find me some practice partners in NA that are willing to quit school/work to make 0 money and practice with me 12 hours a day to keep up.
Oh wait? You can't?
I would do fucking anything to be able to play on a real pro house full time, but it's actually impossible right now unless you have some fluke showing at a tournament or swear enough on your stream to get noticed by a team with money.
And don't even try to act like you can get noticed through online tournaments.. The last Zotac finals were polt vs jjakji for fucks sake, and as a guy grinding games in his grandparent's basement, I sure as hell cannot compete with 2 gsl winners.
the NA scene (and EU to a lesser extent) NEEDS something to foster some form of legitimate competition to make actually playing this game seem worthwhile to more than the 4-5 foreign players in the world that can compete with koreans.
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On April 05 2013 03:25 StrifeIsBack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:18 Type|NarutO wrote:
No one is argueing that we need leagues in NA/EU. People are argueing about Korean participation should be allowed or not.
The thread is technically about why we prefer foreigners over koreans. Not either of the two things brought about in my quote or your quote. Yet in my previous post I go on to talk about why I prefer foreigners over koreans, and why koreans are bad for SC2 and esports as a whole.
You sir have blown my mind.
I don't even.... O_o
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I think full nation ban is silly. A full permission is euqaly silly.
Allow a percantage of lets say 30% of player base to come from another "nation, continent". Problem solved.
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On April 05 2013 03:28 Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:21 Type|NarutO wrote:On April 05 2013 03:19 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 03:15 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 03:01 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:34 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:31 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:25 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:22 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Professional coaching is a critical part of practice and that is one area where NA and EU simply lacks professionals who can fill that role. Everyone does better with a coach in all aspects of competition and the Olympics has proven this over and over. Management of your practice schedule and objective review of your performance is key to success in any competitive field and it is a key area that NA and EU teams need to double down on. Players can coach/help each other... it's the most effective thing in such a ''new'' sport/game since there won't be a guy who ''done'' and ''seen'' it all like some old boxing coach or w/e. Also if this is all you do... who needs a schedule? Just keep massing those practice games together... If it were that easy, people would just do it. That is not the type of system that the Kespa teams have and they are doing the best right now. Kespa teams have coaches that schedule, review games and manage the players, the amount they practice and what they practice. There is a reason Coach Park has the most winning record of all the Kespa coaches and his teams do the best. They don't just mass practice, they practice better than other teams because he manages how they practice. Pretty sure people have done exactly what i said and became top players... Thing is however... Korea simply has MUCH more serious rts players... that's all there is to it. Flash and Life did not do that. Neither did Parting. They all had coaches, teams and groups around them managing them, helping them practice. These players did not become amazing just by grinding out games together. Its not about man hours and dedication, its about infrastructure. A coach can't do anything a group of dedicated players can't do for there selfs... Problem is players are streaming and laddering instead, which really is a time waste... Artosis and every professional in the industry disagrees with you and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor that players do better with coaches. A group of passionate, dedicated players will not do as well as the same group with a professional coach. Coach Park is the best example, who lead every team he coached to a winning record and the play offs in Proleague. You also don't understand why NA teams stream, even on TL, who has korean players that stream. They don't do it for the money from streaming, but to provide numbers to their sponsors, who support the teams ability to travel to different events. Ok tell me one thing that coach can do that a dedicated player can't do on his own? It's all about self discipline. Those coaches got nothing to teach... this ain't some old sport like boxing/football etc... Also you think i don't understand they stream for money because i say it's a time waste? I was speaking from a point of view were players try to catch up to the Korean skill level... streaming and long ladder sessions can't be part of that. Mindset, mentality, stress handling, scheduling, offering a neutral observation of your game. Why do professional sport athletes have coaches? Because they do have insight. A coach can't have a proper observation of your game unless he's as high a level as you are... which like i said before, players can help each other with such ''coaching''. The offline tournament stress should be gone after a few tournaments as well. And didn't i mention that you can't compare this to old sports? For obvious reasons.
No, you don't need to be as good as a progamer in terms of mechanical skill to actually be good at understanding the game.
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If i were american, i would love to see a american only tourney. Just like most norwegians love to watch the norwegian football league. I wish the scene was bigger in Norway, I assume Snute would have been untouchable. No fun.
But lets say a tournament region locks to scandinavians only once every year, seed 32 players and have a tournament for a weekend. I wouldve loved it! Battle for the "King in the north" title.....
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On April 05 2013 03:31 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:25 StrifeIsBack wrote:On April 05 2013 03:18 Type|NarutO wrote:
No one is argueing that we need leagues in NA/EU. People are argueing about Korean participation should be allowed or not.
The thread is technically about why we prefer foreigners over koreans. Not either of the two things brought about in my quote or your quote. Yet in my previous post I go on to talk about why I prefer foreigners over koreans, and why koreans are bad for SC2 and esports as a whole. You sir have blown my mind. I don't even.... O_o
Haaha xD he doesn't know that THERE WOULDN'T BE A SC2 PRO-SCENE without Koreans...
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On April 05 2013 03:31 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:17 Technique wrote:
It's simple, people need to stop laddering and stop streaming.
And actually get together and practice properly... don't need a ''practice house'' for this... just a few like minded top players. okay, find me some practice partners in NA that are willing to quit school/work to make 0 money and practice with me 12 hours a day to keep up. Oh wait? You can't? I would do fucking anything to be able to play on a real pro house full time, but it's actually impossible right now unless you have some fluke showing at a tournament or swear enough on your stream to get noticed by a team with money. And don't even try to act like you can get noticed through online tournaments.. The last Zotac finals were polt vs jjakji for fucks sake, and as a guy grinding games in his grandparent's basement, I sure as hell cannot compete with 2 gsl winners. the NA scene (and EU to a lesser extent) NEEDS something to foster some form of legitimate competition to make actually playing this game seem worthwhile to more than the 4-5 foreign players in the world that can compete with koreans.
Blizzard isn't going to dump millions into a tournament so that the ~170 NA grandmaster players who aren't on a pro team and instead live in their grandparent's basement can have a chance at some welfare tournament money. The rest of the population playing the game and watching the pros play don't need an incentive to make "playing the game seem worthwhile" beyond the fact that they enjoy playing Starcraft.
I still have yet to read a convincing explanation as to how this is going to be different from NASL when it started and how it will avoid the problems that they encountered.
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On April 05 2013 03:46 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:28 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 03:21 Type|NarutO wrote:On April 05 2013 03:19 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 03:15 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 03:01 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:34 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:31 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:25 Technique wrote:
[quote]
Players can coach/help each other... it's the most effective thing in such a ''new'' sport/game since there won't be a guy who ''done'' and ''seen'' it all like some old boxing coach or w/e.
Also if this is all you do... who needs a schedule? Just keep massing those practice games together...
If it were that easy, people would just do it. That is not the type of system that the Kespa teams have and they are doing the best right now. Kespa teams have coaches that schedule, review games and manage the players, the amount they practice and what they practice. There is a reason Coach Park has the most winning record of all the Kespa coaches and his teams do the best. They don't just mass practice, they practice better than other teams because he manages how they practice. Pretty sure people have done exactly what i said and became top players... Thing is however... Korea simply has MUCH more serious rts players... that's all there is to it. Flash and Life did not do that. Neither did Parting. They all had coaches, teams and groups around them managing them, helping them practice. These players did not become amazing just by grinding out games together. Its not about man hours and dedication, its about infrastructure. A coach can't do anything a group of dedicated players can't do for there selfs... Problem is players are streaming and laddering instead, which really is a time waste... Artosis and every professional in the industry disagrees with you and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor that players do better with coaches. A group of passionate, dedicated players will not do as well as the same group with a professional coach. Coach Park is the best example, who lead every team he coached to a winning record and the play offs in Proleague. You also don't understand why NA teams stream, even on TL, who has korean players that stream. They don't do it for the money from streaming, but to provide numbers to their sponsors, who support the teams ability to travel to different events. Ok tell me one thing that coach can do that a dedicated player can't do on his own? It's all about self discipline. Those coaches got nothing to teach... this ain't some old sport like boxing/football etc... Also you think i don't understand they stream for money because i say it's a time waste? I was speaking from a point of view were players try to catch up to the Korean skill level... streaming and long ladder sessions can't be part of that. Mindset, mentality, stress handling, scheduling, offering a neutral observation of your game. Why do professional sport athletes have coaches? Because they do have insight. A coach can't have a proper observation of your game unless he's as high a level as you are... which like i said before, players can help each other with such ''coaching''. The offline tournament stress should be gone after a few tournaments as well. And didn't i mention that you can't compare this to old sports? For obvious reasons. No, you don't need to be as good as a progamer in terms of mechanical skill to actually be good at understanding the game.
Some one who is not actively training will at best be able to follow the metagame and recognize the timings from a observer point of view... that's nothing special/useful.
You will need to get ahead of the curve and estimate timings/strats with limited information if you want to separate yourself from the other ''top'' players.
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On April 05 2013 03:25 StrifeIsBack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:18 Type|NarutO wrote:
No one is argueing that we need leagues in NA/EU. People are argueing about Korean participation should be allowed or not.
The thread is technically about why we prefer foreigners over koreans. Not either of the two things brought about in my quote or your quote. Yet in my previous post I go on to talk about why I prefer foreigners over koreans, and why koreans are bad for SC2 and esports as a whole.
Jesus what a nut job. Luckily the 120,000 people who watched Flash vs Life at MLG disagree with you.
Without Korea Sc2 esports is the same shitty amateur mess we see in Dota 2 where there's barely any tournaments and what we did have is incredibly low quality and unprofessional aside from when developer money is involved.
Not to mention that the standard of play would be far, far lower as foreigners would practice even less than they do now.
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On April 05 2013 03:52 Cyrak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:31 Glurkenspurk wrote:On April 05 2013 02:17 Technique wrote:
It's simple, people need to stop laddering and stop streaming.
And actually get together and practice properly... don't need a ''practice house'' for this... just a few like minded top players. okay, find me some practice partners in NA that are willing to quit school/work to make 0 money and practice with me 12 hours a day to keep up. Oh wait? You can't? I would do fucking anything to be able to play on a real pro house full time, but it's actually impossible right now unless you have some fluke showing at a tournament or swear enough on your stream to get noticed by a team with money. And don't even try to act like you can get noticed through online tournaments.. The last Zotac finals were polt vs jjakji for fucks sake, and as a guy grinding games in his grandparent's basement, I sure as hell cannot compete with 2 gsl winners. the NA scene (and EU to a lesser extent) NEEDS something to foster some form of legitimate competition to make actually playing this game seem worthwhile to more than the 4-5 foreign players in the world that can compete with koreans. Blizzard isn't going to dump millions into a tournament so that the ~170 NA grandmaster players who aren't on a pro team and instead live in their grandparent's basement can have a chance at some welfare tournament money. The rest of the population playing the game and watching the pros play don't need an incentive to make "playing the game seem worthwhile" beyond the fact that they enjoy playing Starcraft. I still have yet to read a convincing explanation as to how this is going to be different from NASL when it started and how it will avoid the problems that they encountered.
So basically you're all for a stagnation of the pro scene and no competition outside of Korea?
Welp. I can't argue with that. Fuck it.
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On April 05 2013 03:55 Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:46 Type|NarutO wrote:On April 05 2013 03:28 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 03:21 Type|NarutO wrote:On April 05 2013 03:19 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 03:15 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 03:01 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:34 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:31 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
If it were that easy, people would just do it. That is not the type of system that the Kespa teams have and they are doing the best right now. Kespa teams have coaches that schedule, review games and manage the players, the amount they practice and what they practice. There is a reason Coach Park has the most winning record of all the Kespa coaches and his teams do the best. They don't just mass practice, they practice better than other teams because he manages how they practice. Pretty sure people have done exactly what i said and became top players... Thing is however... Korea simply has MUCH more serious rts players... that's all there is to it. Flash and Life did not do that. Neither did Parting. They all had coaches, teams and groups around them managing them, helping them practice. These players did not become amazing just by grinding out games together. Its not about man hours and dedication, its about infrastructure. A coach can't do anything a group of dedicated players can't do for there selfs... Problem is players are streaming and laddering instead, which really is a time waste... Artosis and every professional in the industry disagrees with you and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor that players do better with coaches. A group of passionate, dedicated players will not do as well as the same group with a professional coach. Coach Park is the best example, who lead every team he coached to a winning record and the play offs in Proleague. You also don't understand why NA teams stream, even on TL, who has korean players that stream. They don't do it for the money from streaming, but to provide numbers to their sponsors, who support the teams ability to travel to different events. Ok tell me one thing that coach can do that a dedicated player can't do on his own? It's all about self discipline. Those coaches got nothing to teach... this ain't some old sport like boxing/football etc... Also you think i don't understand they stream for money because i say it's a time waste? I was speaking from a point of view were players try to catch up to the Korean skill level... streaming and long ladder sessions can't be part of that. Mindset, mentality, stress handling, scheduling, offering a neutral observation of your game. Why do professional sport athletes have coaches? Because they do have insight. A coach can't have a proper observation of your game unless he's as high a level as you are... which like i said before, players can help each other with such ''coaching''. The offline tournament stress should be gone after a few tournaments as well. And didn't i mention that you can't compare this to old sports? For obvious reasons. No, you don't need to be as good as a progamer in terms of mechanical skill to actually be good at understanding the game. Some one who is not actively training will at best be able to follow the metagame and recognize the timings from a observer point of view... that's nothing special/useful. You will need to get ahead of the curve and estimate timings/strats with limited information if you want to separate yourself from the other ''top'' players.
You don't know what you are talking about and being an arm chair team manager. Why would Liquid Naz'gul and EG hire Coach Park if he isn't anything special? And why did his teams do so well in Proleague?
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On April 05 2013 03:55 Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:46 Type|NarutO wrote:On April 05 2013 03:28 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 03:21 Type|NarutO wrote:On April 05 2013 03:19 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 03:15 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 03:01 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2013 02:34 Technique wrote:On April 05 2013 02:31 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
If it were that easy, people would just do it. That is not the type of system that the Kespa teams have and they are doing the best right now. Kespa teams have coaches that schedule, review games and manage the players, the amount they practice and what they practice. There is a reason Coach Park has the most winning record of all the Kespa coaches and his teams do the best. They don't just mass practice, they practice better than other teams because he manages how they practice. Pretty sure people have done exactly what i said and became top players... Thing is however... Korea simply has MUCH more serious rts players... that's all there is to it. Flash and Life did not do that. Neither did Parting. They all had coaches, teams and groups around them managing them, helping them practice. These players did not become amazing just by grinding out games together. Its not about man hours and dedication, its about infrastructure. A coach can't do anything a group of dedicated players can't do for there selfs... Problem is players are streaming and laddering instead, which really is a time waste... Artosis and every professional in the industry disagrees with you and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor that players do better with coaches. A group of passionate, dedicated players will not do as well as the same group with a professional coach. Coach Park is the best example, who lead every team he coached to a winning record and the play offs in Proleague. You also don't understand why NA teams stream, even on TL, who has korean players that stream. They don't do it for the money from streaming, but to provide numbers to their sponsors, who support the teams ability to travel to different events. Ok tell me one thing that coach can do that a dedicated player can't do on his own? It's all about self discipline. Those coaches got nothing to teach... this ain't some old sport like boxing/football etc... Also you think i don't understand they stream for money because i say it's a time waste? I was speaking from a point of view were players try to catch up to the Korean skill level... streaming and long ladder sessions can't be part of that. Mindset, mentality, stress handling, scheduling, offering a neutral observation of your game. Why do professional sport athletes have coaches? Because they do have insight. A coach can't have a proper observation of your game unless he's as high a level as you are... which like i said before, players can help each other with such ''coaching''. The offline tournament stress should be gone after a few tournaments as well. And didn't i mention that you can't compare this to old sports? For obvious reasons. No, you don't need to be as good as a progamer in terms of mechanical skill to actually be good at understanding the game. Some one who is not actively training will at best be able to follow the metagame and recognize the timings from a observer point of view... that's nothing special/useful. You will need to get ahead of the curve and estimate timings/strats with limited information if you want to separate yourself from the other ''top'' players.
What kind of understanding can you bring to the table if it comes to the pro scene? Lots of players gain insight from watching the games and understanding the timings, because they don't have the problems you have as a player, which is incomplete information. They can immediately tell during or after a game how the timings will work out, where you could have improved or how to create timings.
Only because you are mechanically not fit doesn't mean you cannot create strategy. I'll never be as good as Korean pros, yet I can discuss strategy with my friends among the German / European pros, because I understand strategies and their problems as well as the timing windows, doesn't mean I'm mechanically capable of playing them or executing them.
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This is hilarious. One of the biggest qualms people had with KeSPA is that they effectively made BW only for Korean gamers. The fact that people are complaining that we have too much integration is hilarious, before it was about how Foreigners could not play Koreans which drove the foreigner scene to not be nearly as good as the pro Korean scene. These rant OP's are getting more and more ridiculous.
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EPT
