If you have 14 lings VS 2 hellbats without any upgrades and group both tight together and then attack each other without any micro in the unit tester. Result: The lings will kill the hellbats leaving 6-8 lings.
If I do the same with the hellbats under a blinding cloud sometimes both hellbats stay alive while all lings die. Sometimes lings win with 1 or 2 left!
Why? Because the attack radius is 2 and the FIRST flame does only hit the first row of lings without blinding cloud. With blindingcloud the first flame almost kills 6 lings.
*UPDATE*
While the thread-title is a little provocative, I want to sum up the thread to actually get the point on what this is about: Actually its not so much about blinding cloud as the exact scenario with slow lings (T1) vs hellbats under a blinding cloud (T3) will rarely happen. BUT the finding leads to the question on how to use hellbats in an efficient way. For any scenario like in video where units run to the hellbats and try to attack them it is better (for the hellbats) to let them come near before the first attack, as this one hits MORE untis before cooldown. In a late game scenario with different unit compositions it might not be so crucial, but in other scenarios like a hellbat/marine all-in it might be the win to micro hellbats to be more efficient. So it might be better to move them in melee range and then attack rather than just a-moving. But be aware that roaches etc might kite them.
I will do it later (need to get the capture tool running again .,.)and edit my first post. Kind of crazy, but logical if you think of... more lings are in the 2-range if they attack when they are under the blinding cloud and less lings are in the range if they attack already when the first ling is in the radius (and the other behind it). But it might depend on the engagement and formation of the lings, too... I will play around a little more..
i'm guessing this has something to do with where the zerglings stack in relation to where the first few hellbat shots are as not all 14 zerglings can get a perfect surround on both hellbats.
but hey mb it is a bug, would love to see a video.
Interesting, but seemingly situational, as one would imagine that if there's more than a single file row of hellbats, then it would be beneficial as the back row does not attack, correct?
On April 02 2013 13:39 TerranosaurusWrecks wrote: i'm guessing this has something to do with where the zerglings stack in relation to where the first few hellbat shots are as not all 14 zerglings can get a perfect surround on both hellbats.
exactly. it's analogous to a tank shot hitting the edge of a roach ball, versus hitting the center.
Of course when firing at max range the hellbat splash won't be hitting as many lings as possible... Enough so that apparently being at melee range is better against lings even though you're supposed to have a range advantage, meaning shots fired before lings get in range. But closing the range faster may actually allow you to deal more splash damage, before the lings spread out to surround I guess.
But with micro I suppose the player can get their units to do this even if you don't blinding cloud. I've though of move commanding closer to something with a longer range like roaches, so maximize splash, but I wouldn't have expected it to be beneficial against lings. Probably zealots as well.
Thanks for the info. I think there are various situations where you should cast blinding cloud on hellbats and various situations where you shouldn't. I think it would be a good test to see what happens when you cast blinding cloud on say 6-8 hellbats. The hellbats in the back won't be able to shoot until they get surrounded by lings, so things might be different.
On April 02 2013 13:48 Gfire wrote: Of course when firing at max range the hellbat splash won't be hitting as many lings as possible... Enough so that apparently being at melee range is better against lings even though you're supposed to have a range advantage, meaning shots fired before lings get in range. But closing the range faster may actually allow you to deal more splash damage, before the lings spread out to surround I guess.
But with micro I suppose the player can get their units to do this even if you don't blinding cloud. I've though of move commanding closer to something with a longer range like roaches, so maximize splash, but I wouldn't have expected it to be beneficial against lings. Probably zealots as well.
What you said is true, but you make it sound like this was obvious to everyone with the bolded sentence. I don't think and overly large amount of people considered this with the use of blinding cloud initially though.
It makes complete sense, but I personally never realized that blinding cloud would make this happen despite complete understanding how the attack and blinding cloud work. Kind of neat. Still going to be very rare that you're making lings vs a player with hellbats in his army though
On April 02 2013 13:48 Gfire wrote: Of course when firing at max range the hellbat splash won't be hitting as many lings as possible... Enough so that apparently being at melee range is better against lings even though you're supposed to have a range advantage, meaning shots fired before lings get in range. But closing the range faster may actually allow you to deal more splash damage, before the lings spread out to surround I guess.
But with micro I suppose the player can get their units to do this even if you don't blinding cloud. I've though of move commanding closer to something with a longer range like roaches, so maximize splash, but I wouldn't have expected it to be beneficial against lings. Probably zealots as well.
What you said is true, but you make it sound like this was obvious to everyone with the bolded sentence. I don't think and overly large amount of people considered this with the use of blinding cloud initially though.
It makes complete sense, but I personally never realized that blinding cloud would make this happen despite complete understanding how the attack and blinding cloud work. Kind of neat. Still going to be very rare that you're making lings vs a player with hellbats in his army though
Ah, sorry, that was not my intention. I'm in the same boat as you... I hadn't thought of how it would play out either. My phrasing was poor.
Thanks, the video is a lot more helpful than those drawings.
It really does look like the big difference is with the first shot... It's quite significant. They do very little in the first shot without blinding cloud. I wonder how easy it would be to move command to get them to delay their first shot all the time.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/glNh5lf.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imm.io/11Cnu.png)
