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On March 26 2013 21:14 nimdil wrote:
While I would like for Proleague and GSTL to merge somehow I honestly hope OSL and GSL will be kept separate and both in starleague format.
I've seen many comments on lack of connection with koreans. Well: people from Germany, Ukraine, Italy, Mexico, France and Russia can communicate in english. However - except for Polt and a bit of MC - koreans don't. Just let them learn english so that we don't need a translator all the time. I don't think Life would become much worse of a player if he would spent 2h/day on learning english. In half a year - however - he will be a lot more marketable outside SK.
'MERICUH.
Seriously I don't understand how people are so ignorant and egocentric. How about you take the time to understand some of Korean culture. Would that be too much effort while you are gulping down your 40 oz Mountain Dew and Double Big Mac?
How about the fact that top level players are actually capable of putting personality into their style of play. When MKP or Polt or MC or Life or July or Parting or MVP or Nestea or DRG etc etc play, you can actually kind of know who is playing just by the game itself. Try that for anyone but like stephano or Huk in the foreigner scene. They have to either be BM or "entertaining" outside of the game, because they can't entertain well enough through the game itself. When you are some of the best players in the world, the games speak for themselves and people are stunned and excited to see the play. We saw that pretty clearly with MLG ro32 to the ro16 to the finals.
I really hope that the best players don't get locked out of weekend events, because that will give me a whole lot less content to watch 
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At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the domination from the Koreans.
The solution is one city, 8 teams, 15 players per team, and a weekly league to play in were all the players do their best to be the best. If we do that we will catch up to Korea in a couple of years but it cost a lot of money. Preferably it would had be done on each continent also.
Having an EG lair with 5 players streaming their ladder games on NA for a couple of hours each day on subpar Internet connection won't do anything good.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
No, the biggest threat is poor support and dedication from foreigners to allow koreans to dominate them. don't blame koreans for doing well
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On March 26 2013 22:53 Eury wrote:
At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the domination from the Koreans.
The solution is one city, 8 teams, 15 players per team, and a weekly league to play in were all the players do their best to be the best. If we do that we will catch up to Korea in a couple of years but it cost a lot of money. Preferably it would had be done on each continent also.
Having an EG lair with 5 players streaming their ladder games on NA for a couple of hours each day on subpar Internet connection won't do anything good.
Why do people always have to make it sound as if it's the Koreans fault for being good, not the foreigners for being way way worse?
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On March 26 2013 22:59 ES.Genie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 22:53 Eury wrote:
At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the domination from the Koreans.
The solution is one city, 8 teams, 15 players per team, and a weekly league to play in were all the players do their best to be the best. If we do that we will catch up to Korea in a couple of years but it cost a lot of money. Preferably it would had be done on each continent also.
Having an EG lair with 5 players streaming their ladder games on NA for a couple of hours each day on subpar Internet connection won't do anything good. Why do people always have to make it sound as if it's the Koreans fault for being good, not the foreigners for being way way worse?
That's the SC mentality: nerf and blame what appears to be too strong.
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If you read my solution it is pretty clear that I don't blame Koreans for being good.
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So nobody talking about the supposedly "leaked information" which have been posted on /vg/ yet?
iG !GKS1zrZdfk 03/25/13(Mon)20:32 No.30323648
Blizzard is going to announce that GSL and OSL are now 'partners'. Both will have three Starleagues a year, the same as it was when it was MSL and OSL. Blizzard will pay OGN and GOM about 2 million a year for working together. GSL champion gets seeded into the next OSL season. Same with OSL and GSL.
Reason why the foreigners in Korea are mad is because they are going to can GSTL after this season and Axiom-Acer isn't making the cut for the new Proleague coming in the fall. Startale, IM, MVP, and FXO will go to Proleague 100%. Dunno about Prime. HoSeo and Axiom-Acer not invited.
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No way that whatever Blizz is trying is gonna work...
Blizzard and Korea are a horrible couple >.<
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On March 26 2013 23:05 JustPassingBy wrote:So nobody talking about the supposedly "leaked information" which have been posted on /vg/ yet? Show nested quote +iG !GKS1zrZdfk 03/25/13(Mon)20:32 No.30323648
Blizzard is going to announce that GSL and OSL are now 'partners'. Both will have three Starleagues a year, the same as it was when it was MSL and OSL. Blizzard will pay OGN and GOM about 2 million a year for working together. GSL champion gets seeded into the next OSL season. Same with OSL and GSL.
Reason why the foreigners in Korea are mad is because they are going to can GSTL after this season and Axiom-Acer isn't making the cut for the new Proleague coming in the fall. Startale, IM, MVP, and FXO will go to Proleague 100%. Dunno about Prime. HoSeo and Axiom-Acer not invited.
You can't just say something and not cite the supposed leak. I can't 4chan at work.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On March 26 2013 23:07 therockmanxx wrote:
No way that whatever Blizz is trying is gonna work...
Blizzard and Korea are a horrible couple >.<
What we've heard so far seems to be pretty good.
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On March 26 2013 23:02 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 22:59 ES.Genie wrote:On March 26 2013 22:53 Eury wrote:
At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the domination from the Koreans.
The solution is one city, 8 teams, 15 players per team, and a weekly league to play in were all the players do their best to be the best. If we do that we will catch up to Korea in a couple of years but it cost a lot of money. Preferably it would had be done on each continent also.
Having an EG lair with 5 players streaming their ladder games on NA for a couple of hours each day on subpar Internet connection won't do anything good. Why do people always have to make it sound as if it's the Koreans fault for being good, not the foreigners for being way way worse? That's the SC mentality: nerf and blame what appears to be too strong.
And thats the SC mentality, not bothering to read what he wrote but just flaming him?
He nowhere blames the Koreans, he just mentions a situation that he thinks is detrimental to SC2, and doesnt blame Koreans in any way for it.
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I am not expecting anything good coming from Blizzard
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Guh, I was hoping for a Blizzard-funded top notch weekly production to be presented at regional times. Why don't they do this!? Look at what works, and what doesn't. Several, very hyped tournaments absolutely work (NCAA basketball, MLG). Serialized top-level competition also works (GSL, every major sport).
I have no idea why IPL TAC had low viewership numbers, it was one of my favorite eSports events of all time last year- I got into a really nice rhythm; work, gym, dinner, grab a beer, watch SC2. It's a pain to watch GSL only through VODs. People really respond to being able to plan around a set schedule- this is why major TV shows are always on at the same time, week after week.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On March 26 2013 23:12 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 23:02 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 26 2013 22:59 ES.Genie wrote:On March 26 2013 22:53 Eury wrote:
At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the domination from the Koreans.
The solution is one city, 8 teams, 15 players per team, and a weekly league to play in were all the players do their best to be the best. If we do that we will catch up to Korea in a couple of years but it cost a lot of money. Preferably it would had be done on each continent also.
Having an EG lair with 5 players streaming their ladder games on NA for a couple of hours each day on subpar Internet connection won't do anything good. Why do people always have to make it sound as if it's the Koreans fault for being good, not the foreigners for being way way worse? That's the SC mentality: nerf and blame what appears to be too strong. And thats the SC mentality, not bothering to read what he wrote but just flaming him? He nowhere blames the Koreans, he just mentions a situation that he thinks is detrimental to SC2, and doesnt blame Koreans in any way for it.
It is semantics, but even though the events are essentially the same (that Koreans >>>>> foreigners), saying
"At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the domination from the Koreans."
and
"At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the stagnation of foreign players."
makes a huge difference.
And as a competitive sport the problem should always be stagnation, not improvement.
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On March 26 2013 22:54 opterown wrote:
No, the biggest threat is poor support and dedication from foreigners to allow koreans to dominate them. don't blame koreans for doing well
Alex Garfield of EG pretty much said this on the Pulse(which everyone should watch, because it was super awesome) this week and that his largest mistake was not putting a coach in the EG lair to years ago. He took the blame for not supporting his player enough in the training department. The dedication part is also a problem for foreign players, but better support for the current talent may be the larger issue. Even if a foreign player practiced as much as Flash, Parting or Life, it would be enough because it wouldn’t be as efficient or focused. Without the support for dedicated foreign players, they will become frustrated with their inability to beat compete with the Korean all stars. Players moral is very important and having them feeling helpless or adrift is a huge threat to any growth in the scene. No one is going to try and compete if they know they won't be able get the training and support the Korean teams are providing.
Still with the recent efforts from EG and TL in Proleague, I think they have turned the page on that issue. It will take time, but Garfield said that improving the training for his player is their focus for right now.
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On March 26 2013 23:20 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 23:12 Sissors wrote:On March 26 2013 23:02 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 26 2013 22:59 ES.Genie wrote:On March 26 2013 22:53 Eury wrote:
At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the domination from the Koreans.
The solution is one city, 8 teams, 15 players per team, and a weekly league to play in were all the players do their best to be the best. If we do that we will catch up to Korea in a couple of years but it cost a lot of money. Preferably it would had be done on each continent also.
Having an EG lair with 5 players streaming their ladder games on NA for a couple of hours each day on subpar Internet connection won't do anything good. Why do people always have to make it sound as if it's the Koreans fault for being good, not the foreigners for being way way worse? That's the SC mentality: nerf and blame what appears to be too strong. And thats the SC mentality, not bothering to read what he wrote but just flaming him? He nowhere blames the Koreans, he just mentions a situation that he thinks is detrimental to SC2, and doesnt blame Koreans in any way for it. It is semantics, but even though the events are essentially the same (that Koreans >>>>> foreigners), saying "At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the domination from the Koreans." and "At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the stagnation of foreign players." makes a huge difference. And as a competitive sport the problem should always be stagnation, not improvement.
There is a lot of truth to that. I think that people "blame" (I honestly think it is just not choosing words carefully, rather than malicious intent) Koreans because the foreign scene established itself BEFORE the Koreans started coming to MLG. Then once they did and forced everyone to realize the level they were on, it seemed like they were intruding. So it is a pretty natural way to think.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On March 26 2013 23:25 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 23:20 lichter wrote:On March 26 2013 23:12 Sissors wrote:On March 26 2013 23:02 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 26 2013 22:59 ES.Genie wrote:On March 26 2013 22:53 Eury wrote:
At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the domination from the Koreans.
The solution is one city, 8 teams, 15 players per team, and a weekly league to play in were all the players do their best to be the best. If we do that we will catch up to Korea in a couple of years but it cost a lot of money. Preferably it would had be done on each continent also.
Having an EG lair with 5 players streaming their ladder games on NA for a couple of hours each day on subpar Internet connection won't do anything good. Why do people always have to make it sound as if it's the Koreans fault for being good, not the foreigners for being way way worse? That's the SC mentality: nerf and blame what appears to be too strong. And thats the SC mentality, not bothering to read what he wrote but just flaming him? He nowhere blames the Koreans, he just mentions a situation that he thinks is detrimental to SC2, and doesnt blame Koreans in any way for it. It is semantics, but even though the events are essentially the same (that Koreans >>>>> foreigners), saying "At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the domination from the Koreans." and "At the end of the day one of the biggest threats against the scene is the stagnation of foreign players." makes a huge difference. And as a competitive sport the problem should always be stagnation, not improvement. There is a lot of truth to that. I think that people "blame" (I honestly think it is just not choosing words carefully, rather than malicious intent) Koreans because the foreign scene established itself BEFORE the Koreans started coming to MLG. Then once they did and forced everyone to realize the level they were on, it seemed like they were intruding. So it is a pretty natural way to think.
I don't think they are blaming the Koreans either, and I don't think anyone is saying that Koreans being good is a bad thing.
But it shows your mindset when you say "They are too far ahead" rather than "I'm not doing enough". Winners don't have this kind of mentality.
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On March 26 2013 23:05 JustPassingBy wrote:So nobody talking about the supposedly "leaked information" which have been posted on /vg/ yet? Show nested quote +iG !GKS1zrZdfk 03/25/13(Mon)20:32 No.30323648
Blizzard is going to announce that GSL and OSL are now 'partners'. Both will have three Starleagues a year, the same as it was when it was MSL and OSL. Blizzard will pay OGN and GOM about 2 million a year for working together. GSL champion gets seeded into the next OSL season. Same with OSL and GSL.
Reason why the foreigners in Korea are mad is because they are going to can GSTL after this season and Axiom-Acer isn't making the cut for the new Proleague coming in the fall. Startale, IM, MVP, and FXO will go to Proleague 100%. Dunno about Prime. HoSeo and Axiom-Acer not invited.
It's been cited in the thread already.
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On March 26 2013 19:34 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 19:19 Eury wrote:
People are seriously overestimating the SC 2 scene in Korea. Pretty much the whole BW scene never switched over, and if they did, they did it to LoL not SC 2. The SC 2 scene is heavily Western focused when it comes to popularity and fanbase, and Jaedong isn't even close to Idra's popularity in SC 2.
Ask Alex Garfield what his most valuable player is and I would bet you that it is Idra, Stephano, then HuK/Incontrol and maybe Jaedong after that.
Edit: Someone mentioned Grubby and he is probably the closest to Idra when it comes to popularity. At the end of the day whether it is Idra, Grubby or even Jaedong, I wouldn't call their play the "highest possible". I would just ask myself how we can call this a sport (yeah the word sport is actually a major part of e-sport) if we value entertainment factors over competition. Players like Idra, Incontrol, WhiteRa or Destiny before he retired are basically pure entertainers at this point. they are so far away from the top (even if you you look at the NA or EU scene), that they actually don't matter in competitive terms. Realizing that by themselves they put their focus on what they're good at: entertainment! They participate in talk shows, stream a lot and so on: community things. But whenever you do community things it means you neither practice nor regenerate. Which means you don't use that time for getting better. So it should be pretty natural that you don't have the best players in the world doing these community things on a high regular basis and this means it's pretty natural that the best players in the world might not have the biggest fan crowds. And this brings us back to the start. When we want to establish e-sports as a competitive gaming culture, we have to value competition over entertainment. But so far the scene is doing a great job there.
Uhm no. Once you start broadcasting it and selling it as a product entertainment becomes #1. If you make money by getting people to watch your tournament, then you have players that get more people to watch your tournament. If that's "the best players" then you get the best players. If that's "the most popular players" you get the most popular players. It's the same in literally all sports.
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*Edit* Saw the article on front page...
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EPT
