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On March 27 2013 00:30 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 23:22 Plansix wrote:On March 26 2013 22:54 opterown wrote:
No, the biggest threat is poor support and dedication from foreigners to allow koreans to dominate them. don't blame koreans for doing well Alex Garfield of EG pretty much said this on the Pulse(which everyone should watch, because it was super awesome) this week and that his largest mistake was not putting a coach in the EG lair to years ago. He took the blame for not supporting his player enough in the training department. The dedication part is also a problem for foreign players, but better support for the current talent may be the larger issue. Even if a foreign player practiced as much as Flash, Parting or Life, it would be enough because it wouldn’t be as efficient or focused. Without the support for dedicated foreign players, they will become frustrated with their inability to beat compete with the Korean all stars. Players moral is very important and having them feeling helpless or adrift is a huge threat to any growth in the scene. No one is going to try and compete if they know they won't be able get the training and support the Korean teams are providing. Still with the recent efforts from EG and TL in Proleague, I think they have turned the page on that issue. It will take time, but Garfield said that improving the training for his player is their focus for right now. Additionally, keep in mind how much Korean teams recruit young players and develop them. Foreign players only join a team once they've done something huge and have already established a career. You don't see "EG picks up 15 year old GM Terran". If they did, they could pick rising players and develop them with the guidance of older, more established players.
Alex talked about that as well and he had to make a choice on who to sign. He is very open about the need to generate internal numbers to provide to sponsors to keep his team going and that is conflicts with him signing unknown talent. He says that he is trying to bridge that gap, but it is a conflict right now that he hasn’t figured out how to solve. It is awesome how canded he is on the subject.
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On March 27 2013 00:43 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 00:30 Crownlol wrote:On March 26 2013 23:22 Plansix wrote:On March 26 2013 22:54 opterown wrote:
No, the biggest threat is poor support and dedication from foreigners to allow koreans to dominate them. don't blame koreans for doing well Alex Garfield of EG pretty much said this on the Pulse(which everyone should watch, because it was super awesome) this week and that his largest mistake was not putting a coach in the EG lair to years ago. He took the blame for not supporting his player enough in the training department. The dedication part is also a problem for foreign players, but better support for the current talent may be the larger issue. Even if a foreign player practiced as much as Flash, Parting or Life, it would be enough because it wouldn’t be as efficient or focused. Without the support for dedicated foreign players, they will become frustrated with their inability to beat compete with the Korean all stars. Players moral is very important and having them feeling helpless or adrift is a huge threat to any growth in the scene. No one is going to try and compete if they know they won't be able get the training and support the Korean teams are providing. Still with the recent efforts from EG and TL in Proleague, I think they have turned the page on that issue. It will take time, but Garfield said that improving the training for his player is their focus for right now. Additionally, keep in mind how much Korean teams recruit young players and develop them. Foreign players only join a team once they've done something huge and have already established a career. You don't see "EG picks up 15 year old GM Terran". If they did, they could pick rising players and develop them with the guidance of older, more established players. Alex talked about that as well and he had to make a choice on who to sign. He is very open about the need to generate internal numbers to provide to sponsors to keep his team going and that is conflicts with him signing unknown talent. He says that he is trying to bridge that gap, but it is a conflict right now that he hasn’t figured out how to solve. It is awesome how canded he is on the subject.
Considering Alex has both Parks and Hwanni working for him now I don't think that will be much of an issue in terms of selecting talent. Building prospects isn't an easy job.
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On March 27 2013 00:26 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 22:52 Irre wrote:On March 26 2013 21:14 nimdil wrote:
While I would like for Proleague and GSTL to merge somehow I honestly hope OSL and GSL will be kept separate and both in starleague format.
I've seen many comments on lack of connection with koreans. Well: people from Germany, Ukraine, Italy, Mexico, France and Russia can communicate in english. However - except for Polt and a bit of MC - koreans don't. Just let them learn english so that we don't need a translator all the time. I don't think Life would become much worse of a player if he would spent 2h/day on learning english. In half a year - however - he will be a lot more marketable outside SK. 'MERICUH. Seriously I don't understand how people are so ignorant and egocentric. How about you take the time to understand some of Korean culture. Would that be too much effort while you are gulping down your 40 oz Mountain Dew and Double Big Mac? How about the fact that top level players are actually capable of putting personality into their style of play. When MKP or Polt or MC or Life or July or Parting or MVP or Nestea or DRG etc etc play, you can actually kind of know who is playing just by the game itself. Try that for anyone but like stephano or Huk in the foreigner scene. They have to either be BM or "entertaining" outside of the game, because they can't entertain well enough through the game itself. When you are some of the best players in the world, the games speak for themselves and people are stunned and excited to see the play. We saw that pretty clearly with MLG ro32 to the ro16 to the finals. I really hope that the best players don't get locked out of weekend events, because that will give me a whole lot less content to watch  Don't act like jerk. I avoid made in usa fast food for many years and mountain dew is just meh. I'm not talking that you can't learn anything about a player from his play, I'm saying it would be cool to be able to communicate with players without translators. Yes, we adore korean champions. But it'd would be even better if could just communicate with them directly. How is it that if you look at all pro gamers from around the world, Korean and Chinese are the only one unable to speak english. That's not egocentrism - it'd would be egocentrism if was from UK, Australia or some other english speaking country. I'm not. Translators are necessary but they are not exactly practical.
The fact they don't have an alphabet might have something to do with it
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I would pay a monthly fee to watch an NA or EU proleague. Other soccer leagues than Premier League make money, on other Baseball leagues than MLB make money- just because a league isn't the very tip top doesn't mean it can't have its own enjoyment.
Shoot, even minor league baseball is very enjoyable, without mentioning NCAA athletics.
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Isn't it a bit easier to poach "talents" in Korea as well because of the clan system? I'm not sure how much they are playing in clans in sc2 atm but in BW it must have been pretty simple to get some trainees/b-teamers because every amateur that was worth a damn was part of one of the high level clans and they had connections with many managers iirc? The Courage tournaments were a good help for the pro teams too.
The amateur scene in sc2 is pretty dead and the ladder has no credit unless you're able to play on KR and do good. Pretty risky for western teams to try an do what korean teams do I feel.
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On March 27 2013 00:30 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 00:15 Ammanas wrote:On March 26 2013 23:47 Plansix wrote:On March 26 2013 23:44 Geos13 wrote:
"Kespa and Blizzard will be working together for stable operation of teams and future tournament participation of the players, and will be looking to apply korean esports infrastructure made by proleague to the US and around the globe."
American and European Proleagues??? That would be huge. One can only hope... I cannot describe how badass that would be. With the right rules and structure, that could be the best thing that has happened to SC2. How would this be any good? People in LR are now complaining about Koreans, who are not your Flash/Roro/Innovation/Rain (people like, let's say, bravO or Terminator) that "they are just terrible" when they play. These are maybe not main stars or the best players, but still A-teamers in their teams. Now imagine the same level of players (who would have to play in such format) in US or EU teams. Do we really want to watch people that play 4 hours a day, 3 days a week? Do we want to watch 800 points masters players? I know I don't.... It’s the long term plan of making competitive players in every region. The first teams that get involved are going to be worse than Koreans, for sure. But they will get better over time by getting coaches trained in Kespa Houses, training their players in Korea and having Korean training partner. Its about exporting the Korean play styles, training and dedication to other regions through a long term process. The only way that can happen is by having structure, consistent competitions that make it worth the time to export those skills and play styles. Its not about the short term goal of the next MLG, but looking years down the line. I agree with this. Question is, who is gonna pay for it. Teams don't have money, Blizzard would be plain stupid to pay for it since they would get basically nothing from it, tournaments could but they also don't have money to invest into something that could return in maybe 10 years. Fans could pay, but... really would YOU be watching terrible games of terrible players (ofc in contrast to GSL champion level), just because you would think that maybe, in 5 years, those players could actually become good?
It will not take 5 years and I think people will be shocked how quickly the level of play moves up. If the system is anything as consistent as Proleague, players and teams are going to be trying to edge each other out on a weekly basis. Players won’t train by grinding ladder games, but by focusing on a specific match up or skill. The teams will always be looking for new ways to improve their play, rather than waiting to see what the bracket is for the next big event like MLG. Just from watching the Riot’s LCS, the teams on that are trying new things every week and watching all the other leagues for new tricks, team builds and other ways to get small advantages.
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SC2 is not a game where you can learn a few tricks and builds to get good. The level of play will at best stay the same, at worst deteriorate when people have it easy by never having to compete against more skilled players.
If regional leagues bred talent, Taiwanese players would be dominating the scene now. How long has the TeSL been going on? Sen is still the only player relevant in the global scene, just as he was as the league was formed. Taiwanese players play on the same server as Koreans, and they have a regional league, with teams, TV broadcast, exactly the same kind of support people claim would propel the western scene to great heights. Where are all the great Taiwanese champions?
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On March 27 2013 01:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 00:30 Ammanas wrote:On March 27 2013 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 00:15 Ammanas wrote:On March 26 2013 23:47 Plansix wrote:On March 26 2013 23:44 Geos13 wrote:
"Kespa and Blizzard will be working together for stable operation of teams and future tournament participation of the players, and will be looking to apply korean esports infrastructure made by proleague to the US and around the globe."
American and European Proleagues??? That would be huge. One can only hope... I cannot describe how badass that would be. With the right rules and structure, that could be the best thing that has happened to SC2. How would this be any good? People in LR are now complaining about Koreans, who are not your Flash/Roro/Innovation/Rain (people like, let's say, bravO or Terminator) that "they are just terrible" when they play. These are maybe not main stars or the best players, but still A-teamers in their teams. Now imagine the same level of players (who would have to play in such format) in US or EU teams. Do we really want to watch people that play 4 hours a day, 3 days a week? Do we want to watch 800 points masters players? I know I don't.... It’s the long term plan of making competitive players in every region. The first teams that get involved are going to be worse than Koreans, for sure. But they will get better over time by getting coaches trained in Kespa Houses, training their players in Korea and having Korean training partner. Its about exporting the Korean play styles, training and dedication to other regions through a long term process. The only way that can happen is by having structure, consistent competitions that make it worth the time to export those skills and play styles. Its not about the short term goal of the next MLG, but looking years down the line. I agree with this. Question is, who is gonna pay for it. Teams don't have money, Blizzard would be plain stupid to pay for it since they would get basically nothing from it, tournaments could but they also don't have money to invest into something that could return in maybe 10 years. Fans could pay, but... really would YOU be watching terrible games of terrible players (ofc in contrast to GSL champion level), just because you would think that maybe, in 5 years, those players could actually become good? It will not take 5 years and I think people will be shocked how quickly the level of play moves up. If the system is anything as consistent as Proleague, players and teams are going to be trying to edge each other out on a weekly basis. Players won’t train by grinding ladder games, but by focusing on a specific match up or skill. The teams will always be looking for new ways to improve their play, rather than waiting to see what the bracket is for the next big event like MLG. Just from watching the Riot’s LCS, the teams on that are trying new things every week and watching all the other leagues for new tricks, team builds and other ways to get small advantages.
Even that's suspect because you still have the problem of Asia>Europe>NA. The Dignitas team certainly benefited from training over there and since they've adapted to that style of play they've been a force. Those guys shouldn't really be grinding on Ladder to begin with because it isn't good form.
On March 27 2013 01:14 sitromit wrote:
SC2 is not a game where you can learn a few tricks and builds to get good. The level of play will at best stay the same, at worst deteriorate when people have it easy by never having to compete against more skilled players.
If regional leagues bred talent, Taiwanese players would be dominating the scene now. How long has the TeSL been going on? Sen is still the only player relevant in the global scene, just as he was as the league was formed. Taiwanese players play on the same server as Koreans, and they have a regional league, with teams, TV broadcast, exactly the same kind of support people claim would propel the western scene to great heights. Where are all the great Taiwanese champions?
Precisely why the best players gravitate towards the best leagues in sports that are established. Sure there's a correlation between viewership, but a lot of it has to do with the money at the same time. In this industry it's a little backwards in that regard if you aren't high up on the chain because of the limited opportunities in Korea and there's only a few teams that would pay big talent the contracts they desire (see KeSPA/Red Bull). West Teams have more money and it shows to pay to play in other regions other than Korea so it's a little bit different. I don't see the influx of Koreans joining foreign teams stopping anytime soon and heck, why wouldn't they compete in a different continent when they have the opportunity to do so when their team is based out of there and the competition would be easier (thinking outside of WSC). Might not be the best breeding grounds in let's say Taiwan, but hey if you're really good why not go down there and own shit up for them monies? Heh.
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On March 27 2013 00:49 Crownlol wrote:
I would pay a monthly fee to watch an NA or EU proleague. Other soccer leagues than Premier League make money, on other Baseball leagues than MLB make money- just because a league isn't the very tip top doesn't mean it can't have its own enjoyment.
Shoot, even minor league baseball is very enjoyable, without mentioning NCAA athletics.
I think this is less true now in the post-ADSL era.
I used to watch soccer, and I watched the shitty french "Ligue 1" because I couldn't watch Premier League or Serie A as easily (I mean without paying for cable TV, etc).
With SC2, I can watch Korean leagues as easily as EU leagues. I'm not saying I don't watch DH or MLG, but If i have to choose, I'll go with GSL any day.
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Bit of a bummer that Last will get the other Code S seed. I was really hoping that it would go to ViOLet, with him being in Korea for gstl and all.
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On March 27 2013 01:16 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:06 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 00:30 Ammanas wrote:On March 27 2013 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 00:15 Ammanas wrote:On March 26 2013 23:47 Plansix wrote:On March 26 2013 23:44 Geos13 wrote:
"Kespa and Blizzard will be working together for stable operation of teams and future tournament participation of the players, and will be looking to apply korean esports infrastructure made by proleague to the US and around the globe."
American and European Proleagues??? That would be huge. One can only hope... I cannot describe how badass that would be. With the right rules and structure, that could be the best thing that has happened to SC2. How would this be any good? People in LR are now complaining about Koreans, who are not your Flash/Roro/Innovation/Rain (people like, let's say, bravO or Terminator) that "they are just terrible" when they play. These are maybe not main stars or the best players, but still A-teamers in their teams. Now imagine the same level of players (who would have to play in such format) in US or EU teams. Do we really want to watch people that play 4 hours a day, 3 days a week? Do we want to watch 800 points masters players? I know I don't.... It’s the long term plan of making competitive players in every region. The first teams that get involved are going to be worse than Koreans, for sure. But they will get better over time by getting coaches trained in Kespa Houses, training their players in Korea and having Korean training partner. Its about exporting the Korean play styles, training and dedication to other regions through a long term process. The only way that can happen is by having structure, consistent competitions that make it worth the time to export those skills and play styles. Its not about the short term goal of the next MLG, but looking years down the line. I agree with this. Question is, who is gonna pay for it. Teams don't have money, Blizzard would be plain stupid to pay for it since they would get basically nothing from it, tournaments could but they also don't have money to invest into something that could return in maybe 10 years. Fans could pay, but... really would YOU be watching terrible games of terrible players (ofc in contrast to GSL champion level), just because you would think that maybe, in 5 years, those players could actually become good? It will not take 5 years and I think people will be shocked how quickly the level of play moves up. If the system is anything as consistent as Proleague, players and teams are going to be trying to edge each other out on a weekly basis. Players won’t train by grinding ladder games, but by focusing on a specific match up or skill. The teams will always be looking for new ways to improve their play, rather than waiting to see what the bracket is for the next big event like MLG. Just from watching the Riot’s LCS, the teams on that are trying new things every week and watching all the other leagues for new tricks, team builds and other ways to get small advantages. Even that's suspect because you still have the problem of Asia>Europe>NA. The Dignitas team certainly benefited from training over there and since they've adapted to that style of play they've been a force. Those guys shouldn't really be grinding on Ladder to begin with because it isn't good form.
Yeah, well that is going to be a problem for the foreseeable future until NA figures out how to step it up as a whole. But that is not a problem with any one league or game, but NA as a whole. Still the only way to get NA players to be better is to have competitive tournaments and leagues in NA for all games. The answer cannot be “emigrate to another country to train in a video game”, that is just no viable for 90% of the talent pool. The problem with NA isn’t the talent, but a vacuum of competitive tournaments at all skill levels. I personally believe it is a problem of the country being so large and no one being able to focus their efforts on one section of the country.
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I'm really confused at this notion that having regional teamleagues and tournaments is going to increase the level of skill to that of their Korean opponents. What it will do is encourage pros from EU and NA to practice for something and give them something to play for that's realistic. This will give exposure to more up and coming pros outside of Korea and raise the skill and number of good players in these scenes.
However this won't bring NA and EU to the level of Korea as they're playing and practicing against inferior competition. This is like dominating basketball in the Euroleague and then thinking you can dominate the NBA (which rarely happens).
So the number of foreigners that can compete with Koreans won't really change but fans of NA and EU will have somebody to cheer for and overall raise the skill of both scenes.
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Poland3748 Posts
On March 27 2013 00:49 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 00:26 nimdil wrote:On March 26 2013 22:52 Irre wrote:On March 26 2013 21:14 nimdil wrote:
While I would like for Proleague and GSTL to merge somehow I honestly hope OSL and GSL will be kept separate and both in starleague format.
I've seen many comments on lack of connection with koreans. Well: people from Germany, Ukraine, Italy, Mexico, France and Russia can communicate in english. However - except for Polt and a bit of MC - koreans don't. Just let them learn english so that we don't need a translator all the time. I don't think Life would become much worse of a player if he would spent 2h/day on learning english. In half a year - however - he will be a lot more marketable outside SK. 'MERICUH. Seriously I don't understand how people are so ignorant and egocentric. How about you take the time to understand some of Korean culture. Would that be too much effort while you are gulping down your 40 oz Mountain Dew and Double Big Mac? How about the fact that top level players are actually capable of putting personality into their style of play. When MKP or Polt or MC or Life or July or Parting or MVP or Nestea or DRG etc etc play, you can actually kind of know who is playing just by the game itself. Try that for anyone but like stephano or Huk in the foreigner scene. They have to either be BM or "entertaining" outside of the game, because they can't entertain well enough through the game itself. When you are some of the best players in the world, the games speak for themselves and people are stunned and excited to see the play. We saw that pretty clearly with MLG ro32 to the ro16 to the finals. I really hope that the best players don't get locked out of weekend events, because that will give me a whole lot less content to watch Don't act like jerk. I avoid made in usa fast food for many years and mountain dew is just meh. I'm not talking that you can't learn anything about a player from his play, I'm saying it would be cool to be able to communicate with players without translators. Yes, we adore korean champions. But it'd would be even better if could just communicate with them directly. How is it that if you look at all pro gamers from around the world, Korean and Chinese are the only one unable to speak english. That's not egocentrism - it'd would be egocentrism if was from UK, Australia or some other english speaking country. I'm not. Translators are necessary but they are not exactly practical. The fact they don't have an alphabet might have something to do with it
You mean they don't use latin-based alphabet?
Well here is what makes me curious:
http://www.ted.com/talks/hyeonseo_lee_my_escape_from_north_korea.html
While I recommend watching it all (as it is pretty touching story), what is actually remotely relevant to my point here is what she says at 6:10:
"I decided to risk going to South Korea and I started a new life yet again. Settling down in South Korea was a lot more challenging than I had expected. English was so important in South Korea, so I had to start learning my third language."
So how is it that refugee from North Korea recognizes importance of English (in SK!) and learns it, while among dozens of korean progamers there is only Polt and - to a lesser degree - MC? It seems so weird to me.
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If the incentive to practice becomes equivalent to Korea, then the level of play will eventually be on par with Korea.
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On March 27 2013 01:20 Eartz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 00:49 Crownlol wrote:
I would pay a monthly fee to watch an NA or EU proleague. Other soccer leagues than Premier League make money, on other Baseball leagues than MLB make money- just because a league isn't the very tip top doesn't mean it can't have its own enjoyment.
Shoot, even minor league baseball is very enjoyable, without mentioning NCAA athletics. I think this is less true now in the post-ADSL era. I used to watch soccer, and I watched the shitty french "Ligue 1" because I couldn't watch Premier League or Serie A as easily (I mean without paying for cable TV, etc). With SC2, I can watch Korean leagues as easily as EU leagues. I'm not saying I don't watch DH or MLG, but If i have to choose, I'll go with GSL any day.
That is you, but I can't watch the GSL because of the time it is on and watching VOD's isn't really my thing any more. If there was a league that was on every night between 6 pm and 8 pm, I would tune in each day while I ate dinner. It is why I watched so much of the NASL last season.
Leagues are not just about the best players, but providing a product people want, at a time people want to watch it. If you couple players that people care about at a time that is good for them to watch, you would have a very resonable number of viewers.
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Poland3748 Posts
On March 27 2013 01:31 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:20 Eartz wrote:On March 27 2013 00:49 Crownlol wrote:
I would pay a monthly fee to watch an NA or EU proleague. Other soccer leagues than Premier League make money, on other Baseball leagues than MLB make money- just because a league isn't the very tip top doesn't mean it can't have its own enjoyment.
Shoot, even minor league baseball is very enjoyable, without mentioning NCAA athletics. I think this is less true now in the post-ADSL era. I used to watch soccer, and I watched the shitty french "Ligue 1" because I couldn't watch Premier League or Serie A as easily (I mean without paying for cable TV, etc). With SC2, I can watch Korean leagues as easily as EU leagues. I'm not saying I don't watch DH or MLG, but If i have to choose, I'll go with GSL any day. That is you, but I can't watch the GSL because of the time it is on and watching VOD's isn't really my thing any more. If there was a league that was on every night between 6 pm and 8 pm, I would tune in each day while I ate dinner. It is why I watched so much of the NASL last season. Leagues are not just about the best players, but providing a product people want, at a time people want to watch it. If you couple players that people care about at a time that is good for them to watch, you would have a very resonable number of viewers.
I still don't know why GOM doesn't rebroadcast it during european and NA prime time...
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this sounds nice. blizzard is actually caring for esports?
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But I only watch the best movies or ones of a specific genre! If you like something and you can still view/do such things, it doesn't hurt you if more choices are added that help others. While foreigners are generally embarrassing as a whole, in relation to Koreans, you have to keep in mind that it hasn't exactly been a fair race: 20 out of 21 times (arbitrary numbers are sweet), who are the best SC 2 players? Sure, they are Korean, but what else do they share in common? They had a pro scene in BW.
There's thousands of Koreans who believed it made sense for them to put in enough practice in a RTS game to be able to accomplish things like 300 plus APM and perfect mechanics. The best Korean talent stayed in the game. A lot of the most promising foreigners had 1 foot in SC and another foot somewhere else, at best. There's a big difference in the culture of Koreans and non Koreans in acceptance of gaming and realistic outlooks one can expect. If most non Korean pros started training like Koreans, it probably wouldn't matter. But, you have to lay some groundwork that creates an infrastructure that makes everyone want to give it a shot, not just slackers or w/e you may have it. There has to be something that keeps the better non Koreans from going elsewhere.
When you think of real sports, 99% of fans (again <3 arb numbers) associate with a team(s) from their state. It makes no difference whether they're any good or not. They still watch every game and root for "their team." There's always ways to make regional things a big draw. I hear the MLS is rapidly growing, yet I've never been under the impression that the MLS fares well in comparison to overseas soccer. I'm sure some of those fans still enjoy watching overseas soccer and are thankful for both options. When everyone can win, it should be hard to complain.
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On March 27 2013 01:27 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I'm really confused at this notion that having regional teamleagues and tournaments is going to increase the level of skill to that of their Korean opponents. What it will do is encourage pros from EU and NA to practice for something and give them something to play for that's realistic. This will give exposure to more up and coming pros outside of Korea and raise the skill and number of good players in these scenes.
However this won't bring NA and EU to the level of Korea as they're playing and practicing against inferior competition. This is like dominating basketball in the Euroleague and then thinking you can dominate the NBA (which rarely happens).
So the number of foreigners that can compete with Koreans won't really change but fans of NA and EU will have somebody to cheer for and overall raise the skill of both scenes.
This has already been discussed to death. The Korean teams did not start out as gods of BW, with the builds implanted into their heads from special, drug laced drinking water. Their play, teams and playstyles evolved over the years into the Kespa teams of today. It took time and at the start of BW, eveyone was far less skill than they are today.
This applies to every profoessional sport ever. Go back and watch old games of the Boston Celtics in the early 1980s and compare their play to any team now. It is like night and day how different they are. The game is faster and meaner than it ever was 30 years ago.
Players will get better because it is what they do. It is how competition works. Coaching will get better because teams will seek coaching styles from Kespa coaches and be willing to pay for it to edge out other teams. Players will train in Korea in the off season to return and rip through the NA/EU leagues.
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On March 27 2013 01:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:16 StarStruck wrote:On March 27 2013 01:06 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 00:30 Ammanas wrote:On March 27 2013 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 00:15 Ammanas wrote:On March 26 2013 23:47 Plansix wrote:On March 26 2013 23:44 Geos13 wrote:
"Kespa and Blizzard will be working together for stable operation of teams and future tournament participation of the players, and will be looking to apply korean esports infrastructure made by proleague to the US and around the globe."
American and European Proleagues??? That would be huge. One can only hope... I cannot describe how badass that would be. With the right rules and structure, that could be the best thing that has happened to SC2. How would this be any good? People in LR are now complaining about Koreans, who are not your Flash/Roro/Innovation/Rain (people like, let's say, bravO or Terminator) that "they are just terrible" when they play. These are maybe not main stars or the best players, but still A-teamers in their teams. Now imagine the same level of players (who would have to play in such format) in US or EU teams. Do we really want to watch people that play 4 hours a day, 3 days a week? Do we want to watch 800 points masters players? I know I don't.... It’s the long term plan of making competitive players in every region. The first teams that get involved are going to be worse than Koreans, for sure. But they will get better over time by getting coaches trained in Kespa Houses, training their players in Korea and having Korean training partner. Its about exporting the Korean play styles, training and dedication to other regions through a long term process. The only way that can happen is by having structure, consistent competitions that make it worth the time to export those skills and play styles. Its not about the short term goal of the next MLG, but looking years down the line. I agree with this. Question is, who is gonna pay for it. Teams don't have money, Blizzard would be plain stupid to pay for it since they would get basically nothing from it, tournaments could but they also don't have money to invest into something that could return in maybe 10 years. Fans could pay, but... really would YOU be watching terrible games of terrible players (ofc in contrast to GSL champion level), just because you would think that maybe, in 5 years, those players could actually become good? It will not take 5 years and I think people will be shocked how quickly the level of play moves up. If the system is anything as consistent as Proleague, players and teams are going to be trying to edge each other out on a weekly basis. Players won’t train by grinding ladder games, but by focusing on a specific match up or skill. The teams will always be looking for new ways to improve their play, rather than waiting to see what the bracket is for the next big event like MLG. Just from watching the Riot’s LCS, the teams on that are trying new things every week and watching all the other leagues for new tricks, team builds and other ways to get small advantages. Even that's suspect because you still have the problem of Asia>Europe>NA. The Dignitas team certainly benefited from training over there and since they've adapted to that style of play they've been a force. Those guys shouldn't really be grinding on Ladder to begin with because it isn't good form. Yeah, well that is going to be a problem for the foreseeable future until NA figures out how to step it up as a whole. But that is not a problem with any one league or game, but NA as a whole. Still the only way to get NA players to be better is to have competitive tournaments and leagues in NA for all games. The answer cannot be “emigrate to another country to train in a video game”, that is just no viable for 90% of the talent pool. The problem with NA isn’t the talent, but a vacuum of competitive tournaments at all skill levels. I personally believe it is a problem of the country being so large and no one being able to focus their efforts on one section of the country.
Who said it had to be viable for that astronomical number you threw out? When it comes to NA I'm looking at a very limited pool of prospects. Not only that the culture for some of these talents would be too much for them to adapt to in the first place. In some cases you have to do what you have to do if you really want to get good. My old coaches in athletics told me the same shit all the time. 98% hard work; 2% raw talent. I'm always skeptical when it came to such things, but yes hard work does payoff. I honestly wish they would put genetics in there but when you ask them they put that under raw talent. Especially when it came to sports like rowing and basketball. So when we're talking about talent? Oh it's very hard to find good talent no matter how you slice it. You think IdrA is a talented player? I'd say no. I'd say it was his hard work and mechanics which developed from that hard work to become a better player. Raw talent is very hard to come by and having good mechanics can only take you so far. See Mr. Bisu for example. You cannot teach Star sense. It might get better with time, but some players just get it.
Bringing in A-list/B-list Koreans should have some benefits. Let me put it this way, back in BW I used to bring in a lot of Koreans to practice with my boys because I knew it would benefit the players. Likewise in my MMA practice we bring in reputable fighters from other camps for sparring purposes. That's actually pretty common because it's next to impossible to be the guru in every martial art. Just like one player could be really good at one match-up and totally suck in another.
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