EPT[Story spoilers!!] Heart of the HOTS continued - Page 38
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
But I have to say I am perplexed by the whole Kaldir episode. 1) Why exactly didn't ANYONE make the slightest attempt at a negotiated withdrawal... Kerrigan wanted her brood, the Toss wanted their colony, and fighting one another was obviously and will continue to be highly unhelpful. 2) Why didn't the Protoss warp right away? In an earlier cutscene, we saw Kerrigan's *shuttle* warp away a few seconds after taking off, while still in atmo. The Hyperion did the same thing (with a longer start-up time) in WoL. The Protoss have shuttles, Carriers, Void Rays, and Scouts, all of which would presumably have warp drives. 3) As I understand the mechanic, Zealots don't actually usually "die," but instead are warped away at the last second, causing that characteristic flash of light. Sometimes they are badly injured (whence Dragoons/Immortals), or do in fact die, but they at least have an ejection system that is supposed to send them home. So why don't they just show up in Shakuras sickbay and alert the Golden Armada? 4) Similarly, the Protoss production mechanic is to warp in soldiers from other worlds (originally Aiur, but now probably a diffuse collection of planets.) Numerous Protoss warriors are warped in during the Kaldir campaign. And yet, we are to believe that Kaldir was so far removed from other Protoss worlds that they could not get out a message that could be transferred to Shakuras? -- All that asked (would love a good explanation), I enjoyed the campaign. My next mission: beat Brutal without using Kerrigan at all. I'm sure it's been done, but would be fun to see how it could work. | ||
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Warpish
834 Posts
On March 19 2013 09:41 Yoav wrote: So, I actually generally enjoyed the campaign (simple and predictable, but inoffensive, unlike WoL). But I have to say I am perplexed by the whole Kaldir episode. 1) Why exactly didn't ANYONE make the slightest attempt at a negotiated withdrawal... Kerrigan wanted her brood, the Toss wanted their colony, and fighting one another was obviously and will continue to be highly unhelpful. 2) Why didn't the Protoss warp right away? In an earlier cutscene, we saw Kerrigan's *shuttle* warp away a few seconds after taking off, while still in atmo. The Hyperion did the same thing (with a longer start-up time) in WoL. The Protoss have shuttles, Carriers, Void Rays, and Scouts, all of which would presumably have warp drives. 3) As I understand the mechanic, Zealots don't actually usually "die," but instead are warped away at the last second, causing that characteristic flash of light. Sometimes they are badly injured (whence Dragoons/Immortals), or do in fact die, but they at least have an ejection system that is supposed to send them home. So why don't they just show up in Shakuras sickbay and alert the Golden Armada? 4) Similarly, the Protoss production mechanic is to warp in soldiers from other worlds (originally Aiur, but now probably a diffuse collection of planets.) Numerous Protoss warriors are warped in during the Kaldir campaign. And yet, we are to believe that Kaldir was so far removed from other Protoss worlds that they could not get out a message that could be transferred to Shakuras? -- All that asked (would love a good explanation), I enjoyed the campaign. My next mission: beat Brutal without using Kerrigan at all. I'm sure it's been done, but would be fun to see how it could work. There's not a good answer besides incompetent storytelling by Blizzard or, at the very least, massive lack of attention to details. Apparently the Protoss forgot how to Warp. Apparently they were too far away from Shakuras and they couldn't warp in to nowhere else...It seems there are no other Protoss bases or worlds. They couldn't even warp to outer space just for safety. What terrible ideas they had for the Kaldir missions, but they needed more ZvP in the campaign and again they made the Protoss look like silly and mindless meat to the grinder. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On March 19 2013 09:41 Yoav wrote: So, I actually generally enjoyed the campaign (simple and predictable, but inoffensive, unlike WoL). But I have to say I am perplexed by the whole Kaldir episode. 1) Why exactly didn't ANYONE make the slightest attempt at a negotiated withdrawal... Kerrigan wanted her brood, the Toss wanted their colony, and fighting one another was obviously and will continue to be highly unhelpful. 2) Why didn't the Protoss warp right away? In an earlier cutscene, we saw Kerrigan's *shuttle* warp away a few seconds after taking off, while still in atmo. The Hyperion did the same thing (with a longer start-up time) in WoL. The Protoss have shuttles, Carriers, Void Rays, and Scouts, all of which would presumably have warp drives. 3) As I understand the mechanic, Zealots don't actually usually "die," but instead are warped away at the last second, causing that characteristic flash of light. Sometimes they are badly injured (whence Dragoons/Immortals), or do in fact die, but they at least have an ejection system that is supposed to send them home. So why don't they just show up in Shakuras sickbay and alert the Golden Armada? 4) Similarly, the Protoss production mechanic is to warp in soldiers from other worlds (originally Aiur, but now probably a diffuse collection of planets.) Numerous Protoss warriors are warped in during the Kaldir campaign. And yet, we are to believe that Kaldir was so far removed from other Protoss worlds that they could not get out a message that could be transferred to Shakuras? -- All that asked (would love a good explanation), I enjoyed the campaign. My next mission: beat Brutal without using Kerrigan at all. I'm sure it's been done, but would be fun to see how it could work. To be fair, when Protoss units "die", they don't actually die. They're warped away. That's what the puff of smoke is. It's part of their armor systems. Killing as much Zerg as possible before getting warped to safety isn't a bad deal. Also, the Protoss love fighting. That's why some killed DTs you see go up in a puff of smoke whereas some DTs actually fall down and actually die, as some DTs may not have this system installed in their gear. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On March 19 2013 08:22 Splines wrote: I could tear down the BW story, show you that for each plothole in SC2 there is a bigger one in BW. But you know what would be ever better then competing in which story is more terribly written? Trying to enjoy the good parts as much as possible. Bile or sugar, you choose how to live. Tell me something worse than this in sc1 or BW: The very first cutscene in WoL we already know Tychus is in Mengsk's pocket. Now naturally one thinks, "wow! What a giveaway. I wonder how they'll approach his story later on in the campaign. What epic reversal could they be planning by giving the player the knowledge that Tychus is going to betray them. That Mengsk already knows Raynor's every step through Tychus. That Tychus, despite seemingly being a good friend of Raynor is going to tragically stab him in the back at some point." Fast-forward through most of the campaign: "hmmm Tychus still hasn't made his move yet...Tosh even hints that Tychus feels guilt on his mind. Oh look! Here's a mission to raid the dominion. This must be it. Raynor is going to fall right into his trap!" *finish mission* "Hmmm odd. We just fucked over Mengsk and he had full knowledge of this, yet he did nothing. What is his angle?" *collect all artifact pieces* "wtf Mengsk DO SOMETHING!" *finish campaign* ...."are you fucking kidding me? Tychus' whole mission was just to assassinate Kerrigan..?" Can you see how unbelievably stupid this is? Why was a covert operation like this needed to take out Kerrigan? Doesn't the entire sector want her dead? How does Mengsk know Tychus has the likeliest chance of assassinating Kerrigan? Wouldn't it have made far more sense to try and kill Raynor or at least attempt to capture him? and I enjoyed the campaign for the gameplay. I just feel compelled to speak out on how bad the story was xD. | ||
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Paramo
Mexico138 Posts
Also what is up with the final cutscene, did anybody didnt see Raynor coming from a mile away? Such a simple way to kill the main villian of the story, not to say it was a good villian. To me it was way to unidimensional, he was just an ambitious guy with a bunch of power. I could go on but I guess I better just say that I am dissapointed at the campign. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On March 19 2013 08:22 Splines wrote: The biggest problem people have in this topic is that they have forgotten how to have fun! I could tear down the BW story, show you that for each plothole in SC2 there is a bigger one in BW. But you know what would be ever better then competing in which story is more terribly written? Trying to enjoy the good parts as much as possible. Bile or sugar, you choose how to live. You can apply this logic to anything bad, Dr. Pangloss. For the record, I choose bile. Choosing sugar turns you into a camp counselor. | ||
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Wtamer
Canada131 Posts
Still better than Twilight, though. | ||
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
What Im wondering about is how can Duran/Narud be so retarded... He obviously has very high position/ranking in dominion, Arcturus obviously has no idea who he really is... Yet he settles as some lab rat. He could have easilly kill Mengsk, take his dominion, pump all money into Hybrid research and rule entire universe without some Amon shit. That makes no sense at all. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On March 19 2013 10:22 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Tell me something worse than this in sc1 or BW: The very first cutscene in WoL we already know Tychus is in Mengsk's pocket. Now naturally one thinks, "wow! What a giveaway. I wonder how they'll approach his story later on in the campaign. What epic reversal could they be planning by giving the player the knowledge that Tychus is going to betray them. That Mengsk already knows Raynor's every step through Tychus. That Tychus, despite seemingly being a good friend of Raynor is going to tragically stab him in the back at some point." Fast-forward through most of the campaign: "hmmm Tychus still hasn't made his move yet...Tosh even hints that Tychus feels guilt on his mind. Oh look! Here's a mission to raid the dominion. This must be it. Raynor is going to fall right into his trap!" *finish mission* "Hmmm odd. We just fucked over Mengsk and he had full knowledge of this, yet he did nothing. What is his angle?" *collect all artifact pieces* "wtf Mengsk DO SOMETHING!" *finish campaign* ...."are you fucking kidding me? Tychus' whole mission was just to assassinate Kerrigan..?" Can you see how unbelievably stupid this is? Why was a covert operation like this needed to take out Kerrigan? Doesn't the entire sector want her dead? How does Mengsk know Tychus has the likeliest chance of assassinating Kerrigan? Wouldn't it have made far more sense to try and kill Raynor or at least attempt to capture him? and I enjoyed the campaign for the gameplay. I just feel compelled to speak out on how bad the story was xD. I dunno tbh. Its obvious that Kerrigan is a way bigger threat to Mengsk then Raynor. Raynor is a simple man who got a bunch of raiders, an annoyance sure but not a threat. Kerrigan on the other hand is the leader of an alien race with unlimited numbers. Yea the entire sector may want her dead, doesn't change she is the leader of the swarm and nothing will get close to her head on.. And honestly when would be the better place to try to kill her? When she is standing after an army of ultralisks, or when she is vurnable and caught off guard. He planted tychus there in the hope Raynor would bring him to Kerrigan and could always go after Raynor later. Mengsk always been a character that goes for more backstabbing/manipulation techniques. It's the reason he got to power in the first place | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On March 19 2013 10:58 Assirra wrote: I dunno tbh. Its obvious that Kerrigan is a way bigger threat to Mengsk then Raynor. Raynor is a simple man who got a bunch of raiders, an annoyance sure but not a threat. Kerrigan on the other hand is the leader of an alien race with unlimited numbers. Yea the entire sector may want her dead, doesn't change she is the leader of the swarm and nothing will get close to her head on. And honestly when would be the better place to try to kill her? When she is standing after an army of ultralisks, or when she is vurnable and caught off guard. He planted tychus there in the hope Raynor would bring him to Kerrigan and could always go after Raynor later. But how does he know he'll have that scenario? How does he know Raynor will succeed in weakening Kerrigan to the state at which Tychus can take her out with a rifle? How does he even know what the artifact does? How does he even know Raynor will even get close enough? It only took an entire fleet launching an invasion on her homeworld to even get the chance (which is also bullshit considering Kerrigan owns 3 factions at once at the end of BW). It's all just so contrived. | ||
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Redrot
United States446 Posts
Also, some of the zerg voices were unbearable. The rest was good. Edit: And how the hell did Mengsk get the artifact? | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On March 19 2013 11:06 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: But how does he know he'll have that scenario? How does he know Raynor will succeed in weakening Kerrigan to the state at which Tychus can take her out with a rifle? How does he even know what the artifact does? How does he even know Raynor will even get close enough? It only took an entire fleet launching an invasion on her homeworld to even get the chance (which is also bullshit considering Kerrigan owns 3 factions at once at the end of BW). It's all just so contrived. He doesn't, he relies pure on the chance. But thing is, why not. Putting Tychus there gives him no risk yet can give massive rewards. No idea about the homeworld part tough, been a while since i played BW campaign (tried recently but got frustrated with the unit selection limit) | ||
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Warpish
834 Posts
On March 19 2013 11:27 Assirra wrote: He doesn't, he relies pure on the chance. But thing is, why not. Putting Tychus there gives him no risk yet can give massive rewards. No idea about the homeworld part tough, been a while since i played BW campaign (tried recently but got frustrated with the unit selection limit) No risk? Tychus is a hostage inside his own body armor and Mengsk can press the trigger and end his life at any moment. However, Mengsk does nothing while Tychus steals the Odin and destroys base after base in Valhalla; Mengsk does nothing while Tychus destroy half of Korhal using the Dominon's Odin; and still does nothing while Tychus helps broadcast a transmission that exposes him as a war criminal to the entire dominion. He risked everything... Unfortunately WoL is also full of plot holes. For those interested, I recommend reading the following WoL review: http://sclegacy.com/editorials/7-reviews/1134-scl-reviews-wings-of-liberty | ||
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dinosrwar
1290 Posts
On March 19 2013 11:19 Redrot wrote: What I couldn't get over was how damn angry Kerrigan was at everything. She would always be like, "Don't stop until everybody is dead," over and over again. She wants to kill Mengsk for making her into a monster, but then turns herself into 10x the monster she ever was before. It was so stereotypical and cheesy. Also, some of the zerg voices were unbearable. The rest was good. Edit: And how the hell did Mengsk get the artifact? I just took it as her thinking Jim got killed and being really angry. In the book Flashpoint, it's shown that Duran escapes with the artifact after a series of events, and presumably he returns it to Mengsk after he does what he wants with it. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On March 19 2013 10:04 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: To be fair, when Protoss units "die", they don't actually die. They're warped away. That's what the puff of smoke is. It's part of their armor systems. Killing as much Zerg as possible before getting warped to safety isn't a bad deal. Also, the Protoss love fighting. That's why some killed DTs you see go up in a puff of smoke whereas some DTs actually fall down and actually die, as some DTs may not have this system installed in their gear. Yeah, but that's the whole problem... if they warp away, doesn't Kerrigan's whole "Kill them all so they don't tell Shakuras" plan goes up in blue smoke. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On March 19 2013 12:33 Yoav wrote: Yeah, but that's the whole problem... if they warp away, doesn't Kerrigan's whole "Kill them all so they don't tell Shakuras" plan goes up in blue smoke. The captured female got warped aboard the ship, so presumably they get warped to the nearest safezone, which is either some large shuttle or a nexus or something of the like. Probably has a range limit as well. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On March 19 2013 08:22 Splines wrote: And there is the usual talk again: BW was genius and SC2 is stupid. Does anybody even remember the story of BW? At the start it says the UED has been watching the Koprulu sector all this time. How? How many light years is earth away again? Then they gather their forces and go to the koprulu sector. How did they do that? The kolonist ships send took years to arrive, that's how far away earth is suppose to be. Their goal, the manual continues, is to capture the new overmind with psychics. How do they even know there is a new overmind? The Protoss don't even recognize it when they are close to Char. Is the UED that much more awesome? Also the SC1 manual said psychics were banned on earth, now they have strong enough psychics to control the overmind? Then they arrive and all their units are identical to the terrans here. The SC1 manual states for each unit how the kolonists designed it, so the earth forces should have none of these units. Besides that, earth has had years more scientific discovery. Where is their high tech stuff? Are they really armed with pointed sticks? Before you even start playing BW you have to swallow so many retcons, physic impossiblities and nonsense to get into the story. You're making up complaints just so you can have something to complain about. None of your complaints hold much weight. There are no retcons; nothing fits the definition even remotely. There are no physical impossibilities either. It's been hundreds of years since all of the stuff in Terran history happened, so there's plenty of room to change (and besides, it's not far-fetched for the Earth government to keep psionic individuals even as they purge them from society). Furthermore, BW was made by a small company in 1998. The game is going to have a lot more constraints (such as the UED having identical units) than SC2 should have, since SC2 was made by one of the biggest and most profitable game developers in the world. Your post is full of substance-less complaints just to try to make BW look bad. You offer no actual explanation as to where any of the retcons, plot holes, or character inconsistencies are. Furthermore, no one has claimed that BW is the pinnacle of awesome storytelling; it was decent, it was enjoyable, but it doesn't even deserve an honorable mention on the list of "greatest video game stories". The point is that it was consistent, it was engaging, and it wasn't complete and utter shit. SC2 is completely incoherent and inconsistent with itself and its predecessor, it isn't engaging in any way whatsoever, and the script and overall plotlines are absolutely atrocious. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Especially with Duran, like, seriously, what the fuck was that? Seriously just... urgghhh... I also wish the Re-Kerriganation had maybe felt more required, she was already regaining control of the Swarm, I don't get the sense that she really needed to Zergify herself again. I really, really liked Abathur though. I dunno why, but he charms the everloving bejesus outta me. Seriously though, reversing the big Ending Drama of the first game should REALLY, REALLY feel more... anything than how it did in the campaign. The whole thing just lacked a certain flow, the story was really just subpar whereas some of the missions were really interesting. I'm also not sure how I feel about the Primal Zerg... OH, and holy SHIT DID THIS BUG ME: Essence. So. Much. ESSENCE. Holy mother of sweet God did that word annoy the shit out of me. I get that the Primal Zerg would understand it as essence, but I would have really liked Kerrigan and the Zerg to refer to it as something more scientific, DNA or something. Something that wasn't vague like essence. Yeah, I get it, Zerg are purity of essence, I GOT IT THE FIRST TIME, I DONT NEED TO HEAR IT THE OTHER FOUR THOUSAND TIMES. Just a personal quarrel I had with that one word and how it interacted with the feeling of lore. Seemed lazy. I would have liked it to be more scientifically grounded (even if its only StarCraft science.) | ||
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