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On March 18 2013 14:22 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 14:16 Coolness53 wrote:
I thought the story was ok. Gameplay was really fun for a RTS game. People complain about the story of Starcraft II but they go watch Walking Dead aka Walking Nowhere. Walking Dead is just as bad as Grey's Anatomy both soap operas. But popular thing to do is bash blizzard stories now. Starcraft is made for the multiplayer first please remember that. Replay Broodwar the story was meh. The thing is people EXPECT NOTHING from soap operas, but they EXPECT A GOOD STORY from Starcraft 2. You can do both ... All this "Amon = god" is going on my nerves ... isnt he simply one of the Xel'Naga (who might be super-powerful but that isnt the same as being a god)?
Did people ever really expect a good story from Starcraft 2? This is a game that caters to competition and multiplayer gaming— people never bought it for a single player game, and it's obviously no interactive novel.
While there's huge differences, I'd say that all the SC games have had similar overall story quality, and it's not a large concern considering what the focus of the game is about.
I don't know who you're referring to when you talk about the amon=god thing (the fact it was mentioned in the game?), but how is it an issue? God is a variable/subjective thing with no particular definition; generally many people would consider it to be some maximally-powerful being, and logic would rule that it has to be something that can actually exist without being contradictory ( i.e. having intelligence without having any form of manifestation, being omnipotent, etc.). Also to defend it plainly: many people consider god to mean a creator, and that's what the Xel'Naga have supposedly done.
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On March 18 2013 18:03 baba44713 wrote:Show nested quote +[
Feeding a giant turtle was game mechanics. There are tons of silly things in video games done to fit around a mechanic. Many video games have them. It's the same concept as the terrazine gas mission in WoL. Feeding the turtle meat when he's practically immortal and has thousands of years of DNA-copying high speed evolution going on is incredibly silly, but I like turtles so I'm going to let that one go.
I don't mind game mechanics interfering with the story. Ok, it's silly for blondie to ask for Kerrigan to basically create a Zerg base inside the spaceship, resources included, and it is silly for that general to send those giant battle cruisers one-by-one for them to be destroyed. You can let those things slide as a sort of a necessary compromise to make for fun missions. But when it comes to giant turtle, nope. No easy "well it's because of the gameplay" excuses allowed here. The Zerg were originally an ancient Lovecraftian race. They were supposed to be a disturbing and decidedly un-human evil force set upon spreading and consuming the universe. Essentially a plague, a disease of galactic proportions. Which is what made them cool and in part what made Starcraft's original setting so dark and scary. And now SC2 has turned them into talking dinosaurs. Peaceful talking dinosaurs who really just want to be let alone, graze foliage and occasionally bite each other to death. And they would be all just getting along, if not for that nasty mr. Amon coming down and stirring things up, shame on him. So yes, it's all just a few steps away from a total parody. Which is the direction I would have actually preferred if they had taken. If you opted for silly, why stop half-way? 
I thought the zerg BECAME an "ancient Lovecraftian race" after the Xel'Naga modified with them? The original zerg was always supposed to be a small and unassuming parasite - basically the larva - which just lived on its home planet and didn't do anything special.
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On March 18 2013 19:06 Cereb wrote:The story was so good! One of the best stories of anything I Have seen so far -All the interesting things we learn about the Zerg and all the new interesting zerg characters we get introduced to -The way Kerrigan was stuck somewhere between being Sarah and being the Queen of Blades -The development between Jim and Sarah -How incredible the scenes looked! I was so emotionally invested in this! They really made me care about the characters! When they claimed Jim to be dead I felt just like Sarah in that seen and for the first time actually did want Megnsk head on a platter! The scene with Warfield was brilliant too - her choice to kill Warfield before saving the soldiers was so interesting to me! The prison scene was just so heartfelt and I swear I had a tear coming down my cheek towards the ending of the game! The entire story was just so moving. Blizzard said they wanted us to understand how the Zergs are and why and that is exactly what I feel like I know now. The new characters did a great job each representing a part of what it means to be zerg. Evolution, obedience, and the connection to the swarm. Even the humans Valerian and Horner and great development in this. Also, every scene was a work of art! The music, the way it looked, the battles and the characters! It all blended together really well. It's funny, I was actually considering making an appreciation thread for the campaign but of course the haters beat you to it. I can understand not liking a story but just keep it to yourself at least if you are gonna do it in a way this OP did – it’s just too obnoxious. The poll speaks for itself, despite the ridiculous bias in the OP, most people still enjoyed the story. All the people I know, who aren’t attempting to look cool on an internet page, were blown away by the story just like me. I have a friend just like this, I went to see a movie with him one time, and I am never making that mistake again. Jesus Christ wannabe critics are so annoying. I wish the opening post would just be neutral because now it comes off as a hate thread when in actuality it’s nothing like that despite the OP’s attempts. Some might still jump the bandwagon unfortunately, but that doesn’t stop the rest of us to share our thoughts and feelings
The point is. You cannot claim that the story, writing and dialogue of SC2 compared to SC1 is better. It's objectively wrong. It's just flat out wrong. It's not even opinion and bias. It's a fucking fact. Writing, storytelling and dialogue exposition has basic rules and techniques, if it needs to be GOOD, and not fucking mediocre or horrible.
It's what seperates great inspireing writing from bad. It's what seperates weak minds from great minds.
It's what seperates dumb people from smart people. If you think reality shows are the best thing ever compared to all the other literature, entertainment etc. that has been done.. Then I truly feel sorry for you.
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On March 18 2013 14:22 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 14:16 Coolness53 wrote:
I thought the story was ok. Gameplay was really fun for a RTS game. People complain about the story of Starcraft II but they go watch Walking Dead aka Walking Nowhere. Walking Dead is just as bad as Grey's Anatomy both soap operas. But popular thing to do is bash blizzard stories now. Starcraft is made for the multiplayer first please remember that. Replay Broodwar the story was meh. The thing is people EXPECT NOTHING from soap operas, but they EXPECT A GOOD STORY from Starcraft 2. You can do both ... All this "Amon = god" is going on my nerves ... isnt he simply one of the Xel'Naga (who might be super-powerful but that isnt the same as being a god)?
Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
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Haha if you found this story to be the best story you have ever seen so far, I can only assume you just switched recently from Twilight books to video games.
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On March 18 2013 19:07 Xapti wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 14:22 Rabiator wrote:On March 18 2013 14:16 Coolness53 wrote:
I thought the story was ok. Gameplay was really fun for a RTS game. People complain about the story of Starcraft II but they go watch Walking Dead aka Walking Nowhere. Walking Dead is just as bad as Grey's Anatomy both soap operas. But popular thing to do is bash blizzard stories now. Starcraft is made for the multiplayer first please remember that. Replay Broodwar the story was meh. The thing is people EXPECT NOTHING from soap operas, but they EXPECT A GOOD STORY from Starcraft 2. You can do both ... All this "Amon = god" is going on my nerves ... isnt he simply one of the Xel'Naga (who might be super-powerful but that isnt the same as being a god)? Did people ever really expect a good story from Starcraft 2? This is a game that caters to competition and multiplayer gaming— people never bought it for a single player game, and it's obviously no interactive novel. While there's huge differences, I'd say that all the SC games have had similar overall story quality, and it's not a large concern considering what the focus of the game is about. I don't know who you're referring to when you talk about the amon=god thing (the fact it was mentioned in the game?), but how is it an issue? God is a variable/subjective thing with no particular definition; generally many people would consider it to be some maximally-powerful being, and logic would rule that it has to be something that can actually exist without being contradictory ( i.e. having intelligence without having any form of manifestation, being omnipotent, etc.). Also to defend it plainly: many people consider god to mean a creator, and that's what the Xel'Naga have supposedly done.
Since some or most of the creative writing team etc. who worked on Starcraft 1, also worked on Starcraft 2, yes... we do expect a fucking quality result. Besides. This is Blizzard Entertainment. It's a brand, it's a core value, people who love games, it's always stood for quality over quantitity...
Their fucking motto is even "When it's done".... do you know what that means?
It means... They're taking as much time as we need, to make sure that the product we release (Starcraft 2) is in every way, ABSOLUTELY perfect or close to perfect as can be, because we CARE.. about the game, but more importantly we care about the true fans..
Blizzard has had many years to build up a loyal fanbase... How do you build a loyal fanbase?
You do that by releasing quality products, and staying true to that.... Did Blizzard do that this time?
No. They failed that task, in the eyes of their fans.
I have always considered Blizzard to be on of the ABSOLUTE FEW game studios, that actually REALLY REALLY listenins to their fans, and always delivers quality products because...
1) they got shitloads of money
2) they got shitloads of talented people and stuff
3) THey have a healthy mentality towards making games and designing quality..
Yet... Somehow... All this potential... got ruined with their Starcraft 2 product,, at least from a singleplayer point of view..
The multiplayer part is flawless.
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On March 18 2013 19:10 BurgerFreak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 19:06 Cereb wrote:The story was so good! One of the best stories of anything I Have seen so far -All the interesting things we learn about the Zerg and all the new interesting zerg characters we get introduced to -The way Kerrigan was stuck somewhere between being Sarah and being the Queen of Blades -The development between Jim and Sarah -How incredible the scenes looked! I was so emotionally invested in this! They really made me care about the characters! When they claimed Jim to be dead I felt just like Sarah in that seen and for the first time actually did want Megnsk head on a platter! The scene with Warfield was brilliant too - her choice to kill Warfield before saving the soldiers was so interesting to me! The prison scene was just so heartfelt and I swear I had a tear coming down my cheek towards the ending of the game! The entire story was just so moving. Blizzard said they wanted us to understand how the Zergs are and why and that is exactly what I feel like I know now. The new characters did a great job each representing a part of what it means to be zerg. Evolution, obedience, and the connection to the swarm. Even the humans Valerian and Horner and great development in this. Also, every scene was a work of art! The music, the way it looked, the battles and the characters! It all blended together really well. It's funny, I was actually considering making an appreciation thread for the campaign but of course the haters beat you to it. I can understand not liking a story but just keep it to yourself at least if you are gonna do it in a way this OP did – it’s just too obnoxious. The poll speaks for itself, despite the ridiculous bias in the OP, most people still enjoyed the story. All the people I know, who aren’t attempting to look cool on an internet page, were blown away by the story just like me. I have a friend just like this, I went to see a movie with him one time, and I am never making that mistake again. Jesus Christ wannabe critics are so annoying. I wish the opening post would just be neutral because now it comes off as a hate thread when in actuality it’s nothing like that despite the OP’s attempts. Some might still jump the bandwagon unfortunately, but that doesn’t stop the rest of us to share our thoughts and feelings The point is. You cannot claim that the story, writing and dialogue of SC2 compared to SC1 is better. It's objectively wrong. It's just flat out wrong. It's not even opinion and bias. It's a fucking fact. Writing, storytelling and dialogue exposition has basic rules and techniques, if it needs to be GOOD, and not fucking mediocre or horrible. It's what seperates great inspireing writing from bad. It's what seperates weak minds from great minds. It's what seperates dumb people from smart people. If you think reality shows are the best thing ever compared to all the other literature, entertainment etc. that has been done.. Then I truly feel sorry for you.
I wish you would make an actual point amidst your hate that I could respond to
I guess I could respond to the BW vs HotS story. The only reason I could see people critiquing the story over BW was that BW had more twist and was darker. Everyone had their bad sides that were portrayed well in that game but the characters are just more well developed in this game. It's not really a fair comparison cause in BW all we had were the mission briefings and some very sort clips whereas the cutscenes in this more or less resembles a movie giving it an advantage. Who knows, if BW have had the same tools it might have had the opportunity to have just as much development of characters and opportunity to get to know them better. Now BW was definitely amazing - especially for it's time but don't let nostalgia and hate blind your judgement
Also there are no facts in this debate. This is my opinion and that was yours. No reason to be spiteful Mr. BurgerFreak :p
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On March 18 2013 18:43 Tachion wrote:
Sorry this has probably been brought up a hundred times already, but it's hard to browse through all the lore stuff in this thread looking for the right answer.
What role did the Xel'Naga play in developing the zerg? The whole purity of form (protoss) vs purity of essence thing. How does that fit in with the Zerg pretty much evolving and coming into being on their own according to the tale of the primal zerg dude. The only influence the xel'naga had was when amon corrupted them?
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_storyline
Here's how I would describe it:
The Zerg were basically nothing before the Xel'Naga found them. They were small, parasitic creatures that latched onto host creatures and controlled them. Apparently, that was enough for the Xel'Naga to take an interest in them and develop them like they developed the Protoss. A point to be made is that the Xel'Naga do not create species, they evolve them. Both the Zerg and Protoss existed before the Xel'Naga found them, but they were both vastly different creatures from the ones we recognize today.
Pre HotS, this is how the story of the Zerg went:
Xel'Naga found the Zerg on Zerus, an inhospitable, volcanic planet. They uplifted them, evolving them into the much more dangerous, but still mindless and feral, creatures. They then created the Overmind to act as the hive mind for the race. Their logic in this was that they had previously watched the Protoss lose themselves to tribal infighting and didn't want that to happen again. One mind, one leader, one permanently unified race.
At some point, the Overmind became aware of the Xel'Naga that created it, and sent the Swarm up into orbit to wipe out the Xel'Naga. We were to understand at this point that the Xel'Naga were likely extinct, since there was no explicit mention of any survivors. The Overmind lured some giant space faring creatures to Zerus and assimilated them, thus granting the Hive the ability to travel through space.
For an unspecified amount of time, at least hundreds, possibly thousands of years, The Zerg swarm led by the Overmind went from planet to planet assimilating more species and folding them into the Zerg, creating Zerg units like the Zergling, Hydralisk, and Mutalisk that we recognize today.
HotS retcons:
The history of the Zerg is as above, with the following changes:
When the Overmind is created, not all of the Zerg on Zerus fell under its control. This group are the "Primal" Zerg we see in HotS. So they were still shaped by the Xel'Naga, but were never under the influence of the Overmind, and therefore were never part of a collective identity of the Swarm. Each Primal Zerg is its own individual, with no link to any other Zerg, primal or otherwise. (also, since the Overmind and its swarm left Zerus, it has since become a lush jungle planet, but whatever.)
When the Xel'Naga created the Overmind, the renegade Xel'Naga we now know as Amon corrupted it by implanting an overriding directive into the Overmind's mind: To wipe out the Protoss. In the original history, the Overmind only became aware of the Protoss some time after its creation, and its desire to assimilate them into the Swarm was all its own, not the will of a third party.
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On March 18 2013 19:22 Cereb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 19:10 BurgerFreak wrote:On March 18 2013 19:06 Cereb wrote:The story was so good! One of the best stories of anything I Have seen so far -All the interesting things we learn about the Zerg and all the new interesting zerg characters we get introduced to -The way Kerrigan was stuck somewhere between being Sarah and being the Queen of Blades -The development between Jim and Sarah -How incredible the scenes looked! I was so emotionally invested in this! They really made me care about the characters! When they claimed Jim to be dead I felt just like Sarah in that seen and for the first time actually did want Megnsk head on a platter! The scene with Warfield was brilliant too - her choice to kill Warfield before saving the soldiers was so interesting to me! The prison scene was just so heartfelt and I swear I had a tear coming down my cheek towards the ending of the game! The entire story was just so moving. Blizzard said they wanted us to understand how the Zergs are and why and that is exactly what I feel like I know now. The new characters did a great job each representing a part of what it means to be zerg. Evolution, obedience, and the connection to the swarm. Even the humans Valerian and Horner and great development in this. Also, every scene was a work of art! The music, the way it looked, the battles and the characters! It all blended together really well. It's funny, I was actually considering making an appreciation thread for the campaign but of course the haters beat you to it. I can understand not liking a story but just keep it to yourself at least if you are gonna do it in a way this OP did – it’s just too obnoxious. The poll speaks for itself, despite the ridiculous bias in the OP, most people still enjoyed the story. All the people I know, who aren’t attempting to look cool on an internet page, were blown away by the story just like me. I have a friend just like this, I went to see a movie with him one time, and I am never making that mistake again. Jesus Christ wannabe critics are so annoying. I wish the opening post would just be neutral because now it comes off as a hate thread when in actuality it’s nothing like that despite the OP’s attempts. Some might still jump the bandwagon unfortunately, but that doesn’t stop the rest of us to share our thoughts and feelings The point is. You cannot claim that the story, writing and dialogue of SC2 compared to SC1 is better. It's objectively wrong. It's just flat out wrong. It's not even opinion and bias. It's a fucking fact. Writing, storytelling and dialogue exposition has basic rules and techniques, if it needs to be GOOD, and not fucking mediocre or horrible. It's what seperates great inspireing writing from bad. It's what seperates weak minds from great minds. It's what seperates dumb people from smart people. If you think reality shows are the best thing ever compared to all the other literature, entertainment etc. that has been done.. Then I truly feel sorry for you. I wish you would make an actual point amidst your hate that I could respond to I guess I could respond to the BW vs HotS story. The only reason I could see people critiquing the story over BW was that BW had more twist and was darker. Everyone had their bad sides that were portrayed well in that game but the characters are just more well developed in this game. It's not really a fair comparison cause in BW all we had were the mission briefings and some very sort clips whereas the cutscenes in this more or less resembles a movie giving it an advantage. Who knows, if BW have had the same tools it might have had the opportunity to have just as much development of characters and opportunity to get to know them better. Now BW was definitely amazing - especially for it's time but don't let nostalgia and hate blind your judgement Also there are no facts in this debate. This is my opinion and that was yours. No reason to be spiteful Mr. BurgerFreak :p
It's weird to see people having this notion that we need to be "kinder" to SC2's story because of such and such reasons. "It's not really a fair comparison cause in BW all we had were the mission briefings and some very sort clips whereas the cutscenes in this more or less resembles a movie giving it an advantage."
So we should be more lenient with SC2 because the people who made SC2 chose to make the game in such a way that it's harder to tell a good story?
If anything, we should be harsher to SC2, our standards should be raised. It's the year 2013, Starcraft 1 was 15 years ago. We've all grown up in those 15 years, the video game industry has grown up in those 15 years(well...), so why is it so unfair for us to expect Starcraft to have grown up too? Or hell, not even grown up, but maintained the level of maturity it had 15 years ago?
If the story and writing of SC2 was at the level of SC1/BW and not a drop better, a lot of people still might've complained. They would've said what I just said, "I've grown up 15 years, but Starcraft has not! It's the same as ever: impressive storytelling to a young teenager but only average to an adult."
But what we got wasn't stagnation, it was devolution, it was regression from something that's impressive to a teenager to something a 14 year old might roll his eyes at. And that is what makes HotS and WoL so bad, the game should've grown up, but instead it got dumbed down. Way down.
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I just hope LotV will have some major twists that were setup from the start of WoL.
First, Zeratul was decieved from start by Amon, who only needed energy to be reborn and only being powerful in universe was QoB so he needed to make sure she would not be killed before that. He does not care what happens afterwards. In the prolog to LotV kerri goes after Amon and is defeated by him, who takes control off the remainants of the swarm and kerri barely escapes with her life and an insignificant part of the swarm she can still control (stukov also escapes with her).
Next, Valerian had his own agenda from start to overthrow his father, that's why he kept trying to get kerri to take control of zerg with that all build a hatch bullshit. He knew she would seek revenge, kill Mensk and the go on some prophecy big bad chase and will leave the faith of humanity to him. Kerri (assume he barely escapes) comes to him for help first but ofc is betrayed by him who imprisons her. Stukov disapproved of this from start and just returns to char with a small brood trying to rebuild somehow.
Now Raynor seeing this seeks the help of Zeratul, they free her in the first LotV missions and go for help to Shakuras, hoping the protoss will understand the situation and rally to fight. Toss bosses however imprison Zeratul for the offence, sentences Kerri to die for her crimes and just exile Raynor (remembering the help he once provided).
Now the swarm controlled by Amon, along with a few hybrids start laying waste to planet after planet. The LotV campaign will be mostly about our hero (maybe Artanis) fighting against zerg and gather all protoss forces available, all this while starting to figure out that Zeratul was right. The toss slowly but surely lose their fight against the zerg.
Meanwhile Raynor after exile went to Stukov trying to find the only force who might be able to match Amon and the swarm, Earth. He gets the coordinated of Earth's solar system, and goes there and makes his case to the UED leaders, also getting them up to speed to everything that has happened. The UED use the information to their advantage, they take the time the toss fighting the zerg are giving them to gather a huge armada. After the protoss are finally defeated, the swarm is weakend and Amon already considers himself to have won, the UED unleash their armada on everything and everybody. They eradicate everything. Zeratul, Kerri, Artanis can either die/run away and hide somewhere along the way. Game ends with UED armada returning to solar system victorious, and then zooming in on Earth, London, some random pub, Raynor drinking his ass off with a picture of Kerri in her hand.
The end!
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On March 18 2013 19:41 Gatesleeper wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 18 2013 19:22 Cereb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 19:10 BurgerFreak wrote:On March 18 2013 19:06 Cereb wrote:The story was so good! One of the best stories of anything I Have seen so far -All the interesting things we learn about the Zerg and all the new interesting zerg characters we get introduced to -The way Kerrigan was stuck somewhere between being Sarah and being the Queen of Blades -The development between Jim and Sarah -How incredible the scenes looked! I was so emotionally invested in this! They really made me care about the characters! When they claimed Jim to be dead I felt just like Sarah in that seen and for the first time actually did want Megnsk head on a platter! The scene with Warfield was brilliant too - her choice to kill Warfield before saving the soldiers was so interesting to me! The prison scene was just so heartfelt and I swear I had a tear coming down my cheek towards the ending of the game! The entire story was just so moving. Blizzard said they wanted us to understand how the Zergs are and why and that is exactly what I feel like I know now. The new characters did a great job each representing a part of what it means to be zerg. Evolution, obedience, and the connection to the swarm. Even the humans Valerian and Horner and great development in this. Also, every scene was a work of art! The music, the way it looked, the battles and the characters! It all blended together really well. It's funny, I was actually considering making an appreciation thread for the campaign but of course the haters beat you to it. I can understand not liking a story but just keep it to yourself at least if you are gonna do it in a way this OP did – it’s just too obnoxious. The poll speaks for itself, despite the ridiculous bias in the OP, most people still enjoyed the story. All the people I know, who aren’t attempting to look cool on an internet page, were blown away by the story just like me. I have a friend just like this, I went to see a movie with him one time, and I am never making that mistake again. Jesus Christ wannabe critics are so annoying. I wish the opening post would just be neutral because now it comes off as a hate thread when in actuality it’s nothing like that despite the OP’s attempts. Some might still jump the bandwagon unfortunately, but that doesn’t stop the rest of us to share our thoughts and feelings The point is. You cannot claim that the story, writing and dialogue of SC2 compared to SC1 is better. It's objectively wrong. It's just flat out wrong. It's not even opinion and bias. It's a fucking fact. Writing, storytelling and dialogue exposition has basic rules and techniques, if it needs to be GOOD, and not fucking mediocre or horrible. It's what seperates great inspireing writing from bad. It's what seperates weak minds from great minds. It's what seperates dumb people from smart people. If you think reality shows are the best thing ever compared to all the other literature, entertainment etc. that has been done.. Then I truly feel sorry for you. I wish you would make an actual point amidst your hate that I could respond to I guess I could respond to the BW vs HotS story. The only reason I could see people critiquing the story over BW was that BW had more twist and was darker. Everyone had their bad sides that were portrayed well in that game but the characters are just more well developed in this game. It's not really a fair comparison cause in BW all we had were the mission briefings and some very sort clips whereas the cutscenes in this more or less resembles a movie giving it an advantage. Who knows, if BW have had the same tools it might have had the opportunity to have just as much development of characters and opportunity to get to know them better. Now BW was definitely amazing - especially for it's time but don't let nostalgia and hate blind your judgement Also there are no facts in this debate. This is my opinion and that was yours. No reason to be spiteful Mr. BurgerFreak :p It's weird to see people having this notion that we need to be "kinder" to SC2's story because of such and such reasons. "It's not really a fair comparison cause in BW all we had were the mission briefings and some very sort clips whereas the cutscenes in this more or less resembles a movie giving it an advantage." So we should be more lenient with SC2 because the people who made SC2 chose to make the game in such a way that it's harder to tell a good story? If anything, we should be harsher to SC2, our standards should be raised. It's the year 2013, Starcraft 1 was 15 years ago. We've all grown up in those 15 years, the video game industry has grown up in those 15 years(well...), so why is it so unfair for us to expect Starcraft to have grown up too? Or hell, not even grown up, but maintained the level of maturity it had 15 years ago? If the story and writing of SC2 was at the level of SC1/BW and not a drop better, a lot of people still might've complained. They would've said what I just said, "I've grown up 15 years, but Starcraft has not! It's the same as ever: impressive storytelling to a young teenager but only average to an adult." But what we got wasn't stagnation, it was devolution, it was regression from something that's impressive to a teenager to something a 14 year old might roll his eyes at. And that is what makes HotS and WoL so bad, the game should've grown up, but instead it got dumbed down. Way down.
I would've loved if Kerrigan's decisions affected the outcome (like whether she would be considerate of civilians at the end or massacre the lot of them with no regard) <- this at least could have resulted in an alternate last mission with maybe Jim not helping you or maybe even going as far as being on Mengsk side.
But the problem I feel is that this would make main characters clash. The more evil you make Kerrigan to be, the more you distance Jim away from her, and what would that make Legacy of the Void then? You have to remember as well that the more "twisty" or diverse the options are for decisions would have an effect on the last expansion.
This isn't a 1 release game with just DLC bolted on to it at later dates, how they release the prior expansions would affect LoTV. So the story would of course have its limitation. SC1 and BW was different in that all races and their storylines were playable in one game from the get go. So they could have more liberty in playing with the story.
And with the arguement that SC1 was 15 years ago and SC2 is a 2013 game. Granted, you have mentioned release dates but the limiting factor could also have been that the universe/lore was created 15 years ago. After that time, you as the consumer have been exposed to a diverse selection of universes, futuristic, magical and/or primitive. But they were essentially not dictated by a past release (unless they were also expansions)
The core is basically the same for both SC1, BW, WoL and HoTS, with just the gameplay elements staying similar to a certain degree but the manner in which it was packaged was entirely different.
That's my two cents.
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On March 18 2013 19:41 Gatesleeper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 19:22 Cereb wrote:On March 18 2013 19:10 BurgerFreak wrote:On March 18 2013 19:06 Cereb wrote:The story was so good! One of the best stories of anything I Have seen so far -All the interesting things we learn about the Zerg and all the new interesting zerg characters we get introduced to -The way Kerrigan was stuck somewhere between being Sarah and being the Queen of Blades -The development between Jim and Sarah -How incredible the scenes looked! I was so emotionally invested in this! They really made me care about the characters! When they claimed Jim to be dead I felt just like Sarah in that seen and for the first time actually did want Megnsk head on a platter! The scene with Warfield was brilliant too - her choice to kill Warfield before saving the soldiers was so interesting to me! The prison scene was just so heartfelt and I swear I had a tear coming down my cheek towards the ending of the game! The entire story was just so moving. Blizzard said they wanted us to understand how the Zergs are and why and that is exactly what I feel like I know now. The new characters did a great job each representing a part of what it means to be zerg. Evolution, obedience, and the connection to the swarm. Even the humans Valerian and Horner and great development in this. Also, every scene was a work of art! The music, the way it looked, the battles and the characters! It all blended together really well. It's funny, I was actually considering making an appreciation thread for the campaign but of course the haters beat you to it. I can understand not liking a story but just keep it to yourself at least if you are gonna do it in a way this OP did – it’s just too obnoxious. The poll speaks for itself, despite the ridiculous bias in the OP, most people still enjoyed the story. All the people I know, who aren’t attempting to look cool on an internet page, were blown away by the story just like me. I have a friend just like this, I went to see a movie with him one time, and I am never making that mistake again. Jesus Christ wannabe critics are so annoying. I wish the opening post would just be neutral because now it comes off as a hate thread when in actuality it’s nothing like that despite the OP’s attempts. Some might still jump the bandwagon unfortunately, but that doesn’t stop the rest of us to share our thoughts and feelings The point is. You cannot claim that the story, writing and dialogue of SC2 compared to SC1 is better. It's objectively wrong. It's just flat out wrong. It's not even opinion and bias. It's a fucking fact. Writing, storytelling and dialogue exposition has basic rules and techniques, if it needs to be GOOD, and not fucking mediocre or horrible. It's what seperates great inspireing writing from bad. It's what seperates weak minds from great minds. It's what seperates dumb people from smart people. If you think reality shows are the best thing ever compared to all the other literature, entertainment etc. that has been done.. Then I truly feel sorry for you. I wish you would make an actual point amidst your hate that I could respond to I guess I could respond to the BW vs HotS story. The only reason I could see people critiquing the story over BW was that BW had more twist and was darker. Everyone had their bad sides that were portrayed well in that game but the characters are just more well developed in this game. It's not really a fair comparison cause in BW all we had were the mission briefings and some very sort clips whereas the cutscenes in this more or less resembles a movie giving it an advantage. Who knows, if BW have had the same tools it might have had the opportunity to have just as much development of characters and opportunity to get to know them better. Now BW was definitely amazing - especially for it's time but don't let nostalgia and hate blind your judgement Also there are no facts in this debate. This is my opinion and that was yours. No reason to be spiteful Mr. BurgerFreak :p It's weird to see people having this notion that we need to be "kinder" to SC2's story because of such and such reasons. "It's not really a fair comparison cause in BW all we had were the mission briefings and some very sort clips whereas the cutscenes in this more or less resembles a movie giving it an advantage." So we should be more lenient with SC2 because the people who made SC2 chose to make the game in such a way that it's harder to tell a good story? If anything, we should be harsher to SC2, our standards should be raised. It's the year 2013, Starcraft 1 was 15 years ago. We've all grown up in those 15 years, the video game industry has grown up in those 15 years(well...), so why is it so unfair for us to expect Starcraft to have grown up too? Or hell, not even grown up, but maintained the level of maturity it had 15 years ago? If the story and writing of SC2 was at the level of SC1/BW and not a drop better, a lot of people still might've complained. They would've said what I just said, "I've grown up 15 years, but Starcraft has not! It's the same as ever: impressive storytelling to a young teenager but only average to an adult." But what we got wasn't stagnation, it was devolution, it was regression from something that's impressive to a teenager to something a 14 year old might roll his eyes at. And that is what makes HotS and WoL so bad, the game should've grown up, but instead it got dumbed down. Way down.
What is this? Am I being unclear here? I'm saying that SC2 had more character development and was better in that regard but then I turned it around and said that it wasn't really fair (To BW) because they only had mission breifings to develop the characters in...
Also I still stand on SC2 being an excellent story but I don't feel like repeating my post from before but don't quote me saying something I did not say
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I didn't really think that Jim/Sarah was a romance for the ages, so the fact that Raynor allows for a murderous mutated monster to assist him in killing millions of humans in a civil war wasn't impressive to me, even if it was "for love". Kerrigan is a degenerate who should be disposed of for her actions in HotS, it's personally why I felt difficulty connecting to the story, the main character is so lame and unsympathetic.
So she goes into a den of primal zerg power and *surprise*, she looks exactly like she did when the Overmind did a special design on her. Is this significant? No, it's just so that she is back the way the fans want her.
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The HotS and WoL story is a disgrace to the original story. Its a spit to the face.
The mission briefings from sc1 were able to deliver a better story and a better character development, than any of the 3D cutscenes from WoL or HotS.
I will play original starcraft again and again just for the story, but i will never touch WoL or HotS, the story is just terrible and completely disconnected from the original.
What a disgrace /spitsontheground
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I just got done with the campaign a few minutes ago and here is what I thought about all of it.
It took me around 10-12 hours to beat it on Brutal first time through and while it was definately easier then WoL brutal but it was not that "OMGEASYWTF" that people made it out to be because it definately had me restarting over quite a few times.
WoL and HOTS campaign both have their fun factors and I definately had alot of fun with the HOTS campaign then what I did with WoL. I payed for the Collectors Edition and I feel like I got my money's worth.
I enjoyed the story. It wasn't anything special but I enjoyed it. It wasn't bad and it wasn't great so it lies in between on the "decently good" level. Now, I've played SC1 and BW so don't give me that usual "you didnt play the first 2 games so u wouldnt know how big of a fuckup blizz did on this!". The HOTS story had its ups and it had its downs. One of my biggest disappointments was with Narud. Blizzard could've handled that so much better. The payoff would've been amazingly huge had he revealed that he was Duran. That he had used both the UED and the Zerg/Kerrigan to further his own agenda back in Brood War. He could've bragged about that fact at Stukov and Kerrigan and that would maybe progress Stukov and Kerrigan more as characters.
Also, with Stukov saying that the UED could possibly come back just sets up a potential storyline for a Starcraft 3 (if there is one) and also that infested protoss ship will most likely be a mission in Legacy of the Void.
Anyways, I do feel that the campaign could've been longer because even though it took me 10-12 hours it still kind of felt short in a way. Hopefully Legacy of the Void will have more mission then Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm in general. Not overall but just more missions like maybe 28 or 30 
And the people who overreacting so hard at the story of SC2 are the ones that were expecting too much I feel and they just couldn't enjoy the story for what it is or trying to be.
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Korea (South)2437 Posts
On March 18 2013 20:11 Cereb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 19:41 Gatesleeper wrote:On March 18 2013 19:22 Cereb wrote:On March 18 2013 19:10 BurgerFreak wrote:On March 18 2013 19:06 Cereb wrote:The story was so good! One of the best stories of anything I Have seen so far -All the interesting things we learn about the Zerg and all the new interesting zerg characters we get introduced to -The way Kerrigan was stuck somewhere between being Sarah and being the Queen of Blades -The development between Jim and Sarah -How incredible the scenes looked! I was so emotionally invested in this! They really made me care about the characters! When they claimed Jim to be dead I felt just like Sarah in that seen and for the first time actually did want Megnsk head on a platter! The scene with Warfield was brilliant too - her choice to kill Warfield before saving the soldiers was so interesting to me! The prison scene was just so heartfelt and I swear I had a tear coming down my cheek towards the ending of the game! The entire story was just so moving. Blizzard said they wanted us to understand how the Zergs are and why and that is exactly what I feel like I know now. The new characters did a great job each representing a part of what it means to be zerg. Evolution, obedience, and the connection to the swarm. Even the humans Valerian and Horner and great development in this. Also, every scene was a work of art! The music, the way it looked, the battles and the characters! It all blended together really well. It's funny, I was actually considering making an appreciation thread for the campaign but of course the haters beat you to it. I can understand not liking a story but just keep it to yourself at least if you are gonna do it in a way this OP did – it’s just too obnoxious. The poll speaks for itself, despite the ridiculous bias in the OP, most people still enjoyed the story. All the people I know, who aren’t attempting to look cool on an internet page, were blown away by the story just like me. I have a friend just like this, I went to see a movie with him one time, and I am never making that mistake again. Jesus Christ wannabe critics are so annoying. I wish the opening post would just be neutral because now it comes off as a hate thread when in actuality it’s nothing like that despite the OP’s attempts. Some might still jump the bandwagon unfortunately, but that doesn’t stop the rest of us to share our thoughts and feelings The point is. You cannot claim that the story, writing and dialogue of SC2 compared to SC1 is better. It's objectively wrong. It's just flat out wrong. It's not even opinion and bias. It's a fucking fact. Writing, storytelling and dialogue exposition has basic rules and techniques, if it needs to be GOOD, and not fucking mediocre or horrible. It's what seperates great inspireing writing from bad. It's what seperates weak minds from great minds. It's what seperates dumb people from smart people. If you think reality shows are the best thing ever compared to all the other literature, entertainment etc. that has been done.. Then I truly feel sorry for you. I wish you would make an actual point amidst your hate that I could respond to I guess I could respond to the BW vs HotS story. The only reason I could see people critiquing the story over BW was that BW had more twist and was darker. Everyone had their bad sides that were portrayed well in that game but the characters are just more well developed in this game. It's not really a fair comparison cause in BW all we had were the mission briefings and some very sort clips whereas the cutscenes in this more or less resembles a movie giving it an advantage. Who knows, if BW have had the same tools it might have had the opportunity to have just as much development of characters and opportunity to get to know them better. Now BW was definitely amazing - especially for it's time but don't let nostalgia and hate blind your judgement Also there are no facts in this debate. This is my opinion and that was yours. No reason to be spiteful Mr. BurgerFreak :p It's weird to see people having this notion that we need to be "kinder" to SC2's story because of such and such reasons. "It's not really a fair comparison cause in BW all we had were the mission briefings and some very sort clips whereas the cutscenes in this more or less resembles a movie giving it an advantage." So we should be more lenient with SC2 because the people who made SC2 chose to make the game in such a way that it's harder to tell a good story? If anything, we should be harsher to SC2, our standards should be raised. It's the year 2013, Starcraft 1 was 15 years ago. We've all grown up in those 15 years, the video game industry has grown up in those 15 years(well...), so why is it so unfair for us to expect Starcraft to have grown up too? Or hell, not even grown up, but maintained the level of maturity it had 15 years ago? If the story and writing of SC2 was at the level of SC1/BW and not a drop better, a lot of people still might've complained. They would've said what I just said, "I've grown up 15 years, but Starcraft has not! It's the same as ever: impressive storytelling to a young teenager but only average to an adult." But what we got wasn't stagnation, it was devolution, it was regression from something that's impressive to a teenager to something a 14 year old might roll his eyes at. And that is what makes HotS and WoL so bad, the game should've grown up, but instead it got dumbed down. Way down. What is this? Am I being unclear here? I'm saying that SC2 had more character development and was better in that regard but then I turned it around and said that it wasn't really fair (To BW) because they only had mission breifings to develop the characters in... Also I still stand on SC2 being an excellent story but I don't feel like repeating my post from before but don't quote me saying something I did not say
I actually miss the mission briefing conversations. The BW universe was alive and so much fuller and it was so cool when you had 3-4 way conversations in the briefing screen of same race characters talking about what to do.
And then you'd have 3-4 way conversations of enemies talking and taunting and you knew shit was going down.
And then you'd have a private 2 way conversation that would be tense because you know some betrayal is going down soon.
Starcraft 2 is just following one important person in a sea of absolutely incompetent people. Honestly it's so fucking stupid how Raynor does what he does in WoL. Has to obviously save the day from a fucking 5 time-invasion led general because obviously he forgot how to be a general?
Same with HotS. Once again, everyone is so fucking stupid. I mean, in the whole of starcraft 2, does Mengsk actually do something positive for himself? They always go on about how they gotta take Mengsk down but he seems so fucking incompetent that I don't know why they even bother with him or why it takes them so long to best him. What kind of shit villian is he?
In SC/BW, shit went down all the time. It's not just, oh look, protoss campaign, let's do all the missions where positive outcomes happen! NOPE. The universe was alive and big and shit when down whether you knew about it or even intended it to happen.
You don't need all the fancy shit from SC2 to tell a story or to improve one. You just need a story that isn't fucking stupid, doesn't have fucking stupid characters and wasn't written in a week.
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On March 18 2013 20:23 Grumbels wrote:
I didn't really think that Jim/Sarah was a romance for the ages, so the fact that Raynor allows for a murderous mutated monster to assist him in killing millions of humans in a civil war wasn't impressive to me, even if it was "for love". Kerrigan is a degenerate who should be disposed of for her actions in HotS, it's personally why I felt difficulty connecting to the story, the main character is so lame and unsympathetic.
So she goes into a den of primal zerg power and *surprise*, she looks exactly like she did when the Overmind did a special design on her. Is this significant? No, it's just so that she is back the way the fans want her.
The way I see it, the fact that Raynor helps Kerrigan kill Mengsk and millions of humans has little to do with the love he has for her. He would kill Mensk and millions himself to end his dominion. He however would never approve on killing civilians, that's why he doesn't join Kerri's fight before he is convinced he is not the same QoB, and that the new Kerri/QoB/w.e she is now at least respects (if not shares) his same principles.
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Only thing that made me wtf in the story was Jim having a gun in his prisoner cell. How on earth did they overlook that in the QA?
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On March 15 2013 07:34 WhiteSatin wrote:
in my humble opinion the story was absolutely terrible... if not total trash.
when nowadays you have cool storylines and plots like uncharted, deus ex etc. it's just sad to think that's the best blizzard has done for SC2, considering BW story was actually good.
but i am not surprised as i was expecting it - i lost interest in the single-player aspect of SC2 pretty much with WoL - i thought that was pretty awful too, and since then had super low expectations..
whoever handled story and the b.net design at blizzard should make everyone a favor and get a job somewhere else -,-
Whereas then you had cool storylines and plots like Chrono Trigger and Metal Gear Solid, it's just sad to think that's the best Blizzard has done for BW.
It's not easy to make a good story. It's impossible to create a story which everyone will like. Stop pretending like it is.
Not saying that I enjoyed the story of HotS all that much. I just think there's way too much nostalgic hype for SC1 and BW.
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On March 18 2013 21:41 Nekovivie wrote:
Only thing that made me wtf in the story was Jim having a gun in his prisoner cell. How on earth did they overlook that in the QA?
It's never explicit that Jim had the gun in his cell. Kerri just fought dominion soldiers there so she might have brought the gun to Jim. It might also be a game Mensk was playing, letting Jim have his gun on purpose after Kerri boarded the prison ship and hoping Jim would kill her in rage of her turning back to zerg.
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