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On January 31 2013 21:23 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 21:16 LuNa. wrote:On January 31 2013 20:35 ROOTCatZ wrote:On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote:Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news". IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE. On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote:
seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two) Its under "community news" not "featured news". that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't. This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive. So because there was only 1 real competitive player on the roster at the time, this news should just be forgotten and teams can continue to screw over players while most people don't even know that it's going on? Now I know most people here know about vVv and their history so maybe this particular news is not that important but in general I think news like this should be featured. vVv is one of the more known brands in the NA scene and it's best for the SC2 scene as a whole for people to know about problems such as this so upcoming players don't make the same mistake and waste their time with them. Granted I was also apart of this Aspire team that decided to leave so maybe I'm slightly biased here but IMO news of any team that's some what of a known brand screwing over players needs to be featured. Think about all upcoming players, maybe 1-2 years down the line they could be at a #1 GM level and placing well in tournaments but maybe they never got there because smaller teams they joined while they were still upcoming kept screwing them over and over again, they didn't provide the resources they promised and wasted their time while passing up on other team offers that may have been more helpful. That's why news like this should be featured. I'd say he hardly means it should be forgotten. If I noticed it under starcraft 2 general I'd still have read it and I'm sure others with me. We're still developing esports and cautionary tales are important, we need to cut down incompetence without mercy. On the other hand, traditionally TL is very conservative about what they consider community news, so looking back there's probably several stories that are even more worthwhile. That's all, I wouldn't read too much into it. Everyone got the message about vVv I'm sure.
No but what he's trying to say is "well there weren't any known players on the team so this doesn't really matter" when it should matter. Now I will agree that there are more stories worth getting community news, I understand that completely. But in any instance of a known team screwing over players, I think that should be community news so the word can spread as far as it can.
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On January 31 2013 21:58 LuNa. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 21:23 Martijn wrote:On January 31 2013 21:16 LuNa. wrote:On January 31 2013 20:35 ROOTCatZ wrote:On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote:Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news". IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE. On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote:
seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two) Its under "community news" not "featured news". that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't. This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive. So because there was only 1 real competitive player on the roster at the time, this news should just be forgotten and teams can continue to screw over players while most people don't even know that it's going on? Now I know most people here know about vVv and their history so maybe this particular news is not that important but in general I think news like this should be featured. vVv is one of the more known brands in the NA scene and it's best for the SC2 scene as a whole for people to know about problems such as this so upcoming players don't make the same mistake and waste their time with them. Granted I was also apart of this Aspire team that decided to leave so maybe I'm slightly biased here but IMO news of any team that's some what of a known brand screwing over players needs to be featured. Think about all upcoming players, maybe 1-2 years down the line they could be at a #1 GM level and placing well in tournaments but maybe they never got there because smaller teams they joined while they were still upcoming kept screwing them over and over again, they didn't provide the resources they promised and wasted their time while passing up on other team offers that may have been more helpful. That's why news like this should be featured. I'd say he hardly means it should be forgotten. If I noticed it under starcraft 2 general I'd still have read it and I'm sure others with me. We're still developing esports and cautionary tales are important, we need to cut down incompetence without mercy. On the other hand, traditionally TL is very conservative about what they consider community news, so looking back there's probably several stories that are even more worthwhile. That's all, I wouldn't read too much into it. Everyone got the message about vVv I'm sure. No but what he's trying to say is "well there weren't any known players on the team so this doesn't really matter" when it should matter. Now I will agree that there are more stories worth getting community news, I understand that completely. But in any instance of a known team screwing over players, I think that should be community news so the word can spread as far as it can.
My point is that there's a large gap between "this doesn't really matter" and his idea of "featured as community news-worthy". No one's dismissing it as unimportant. Well, actually, several people were, but they don't know any better. I'm with you on that it should've been community news, but can fully understand looking back at some other big events that it doesn't fit his idea of what normally goes up there.
Regardless, that's TL policy, 1. none of our business, 2. this isn't the place to discuss it.
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It was already semi-known, that vVv Gaming's management wasn't putting too much effort into SC2. There were rumours of them not fulfilling their part of the bargain with their former sponsored lineup. And while I agree, that in the grand scale of things, vVv Gaming and us, no matter how passionate we are about StarCraft 2 & climbing our way to the upper heights, we are insignificant. However, the players do not come out of nowhere. Many players climb their way on the top, trying to join smaller teams like vVv Gaming. It's for the best of every aspiring player to know, what to look out for. Nothing worse than to put time and effort into a team, to find out that deep down, there's something really rotten about them.
I can't blame vVv Gaming for shifting focus to other game, if that is where the main passion of the management is, but their practices of stirring the truth, so those who leave get marked as "bad apples" and "toxic" people is what should get a red flag.
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so much drama for no reason.
the Aspire program (and the majority of good players) left vVv. vVv doesn't want to admit it was dumped, and start praising Rob for making "tough buisness calls". Kind of hard to keep a Sc2 division open without any palyers, and sounds like they didn't really have an interest in keeping it open anyway. But let it go at that. At least they were paying you (cougho3wndcough)
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On January 31 2013 20:35 ROOTCatZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote:Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news". IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE. On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote:
seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two) Its under "community news" not "featured news". that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't. This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT.
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On January 31 2013 23:34 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 20:35 ROOTCatZ wrote:On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote:Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news". IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE. On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote:
seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two) Its under "community news" not "featured news". that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't. This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive. vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT.
Not to be a complete prick, it's no secret that I have a crush on EU sc2 far more than KR or US, but the rosters of vVv and ROOT really are miles apart. Besides, at no point does that have anything to do with it. ROOT is actually doing a lot of things right vVv isn't, which is why they're more successful. ROOT invests in their roster. vVv (from all the posts) surely seems to have no commitment to any of the players on their team (past and present), nor intent to support them.
There's a lot of threads that get high posts or views, doesn't mean they're of value. Neither does your targeting ROOT just because that's his team. They're fallacies.
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On January 31 2013 23:34 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 20:35 ROOTCatZ wrote:On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote:Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news". IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE. On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote:
seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two) Its under "community news" not "featured news". that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't. This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive. vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT.
You are saying someone is delusional and explaining how ROOT isn't that far above vVv's roster? Wow. Of course this thread has more replies than Yugioh's because this community is drawn to drama.
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On January 31 2013 23:48 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 23:34 SupLilSon wrote:On January 31 2013 20:35 ROOTCatZ wrote:On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote:Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news". IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE. On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote:
seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two) Its under "community news" not "featured news". that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't. This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive. vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT. Not to be a complete prick, it's no secret that I have a crush on EU sc2 far more than KR or US, but the rosters of vVv and ROOT really are miles apart. Besides, at no point does that have anything to do with it. ROOT is actually doing a lot of things right vVv isn't, which is why they're more successful. ROOT invests in their roster. vVv (from all the posts) surely seems to have no commitment to any of the players on their team (past and present), nor intent to support them. There's a lot of threads that get high posts or views, doesn't mean they're of value. Neither does your targeting ROOT just because that's his team. They're fallacies.
I really don't watch SC2 anymore and I only watched GSL, SPL and some of the bigger events like IPL, TSL and MLG. Both ROOT and vVv were pretty obscure to me, as I really only knew ROOT players from the very early stages of SC2 when they used to see success. I'm gonna be perfectly frank when I say this but ROOT just seems like a team that players go to if they aren't ready to retire yet, that's just my impression. Like I originally said, it seems pretty petty to me to try and make large distinctions between teams that arent even competing in Korea.
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On January 31 2013 23:34 SupLilSon wrote:
vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT.
While I appreciate what you are trying to do - and while vVv Gaming's old roster (RockEr, Glon, SeoHyun, Daisuki) could be of comparable strength of ROOT, the roster (which consists Academy players mostly) we have now comes nowhere close. That's a strict fact.
Alas, I believe the message of this thread was not to highlight the players, but some of the practices of vVv Gaming as an organization and also, to separate ourselves from them; as we no longer want to have a bad reputation because of past actions of our former organization + we want to point out mistakes, which any aspiring player might run into, when joining a smaller organization.
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On February 01 2013 00:11 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 23:48 Martijn wrote:On January 31 2013 23:34 SupLilSon wrote:On January 31 2013 20:35 ROOTCatZ wrote:On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote:Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news". IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE. On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote:
seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two) Its under "community news" not "featured news". that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't. This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive. vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT. Not to be a complete prick, it's no secret that I have a crush on EU sc2 far more than KR or US, but the rosters of vVv and ROOT really are miles apart. Besides, at no point does that have anything to do with it. ROOT is actually doing a lot of things right vVv isn't, which is why they're more successful. ROOT invests in their roster. vVv (from all the posts) surely seems to have no commitment to any of the players on their team (past and present), nor intent to support them. There's a lot of threads that get high posts or views, doesn't mean they're of value. Neither does your targeting ROOT just because that's his team. They're fallacies. I really don't watch SC2 anymore and I only watched GSL, SPL and some of the bigger events like IPL, TSL and MLG. Both ROOT and vVv were pretty obscure to me, as I really only knew ROOT players from the very early stages of SC2 when they used to see success. I'm gonna be perfectly frank when I say this but ROOT just seems like a team that players go to if they aren't ready to retire yet, that's just my impression. Like I originally said, it seems pretty petty to me to try and make large distinctions between teams that arent even competing in Korea.
I'd say it's really more the opposite, a lot of talent starts at ROOT. They don't have the deep pockets some others have, but they do really well for themselves. There's plenty competition outside of Korea too thankfully.
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On January 31 2013 20:35 ROOTCatZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote:Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news". IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE. On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote:
seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two) Its under "community news" not "featured news". that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't. This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
I remember Time and Murder, they left awhile ago though. To be fair i made the switch to dota2 a year ago and havnt been following the scene since.
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vVv was a lot of fun. But as far as trying to go professional? Don't think that was really ever a actual thought. I left because after MLG i noticed vVv was basically just a big group of friends that wanted to manage a esports team. So each friend managed a division in games that competed. Totally fine. Do what you do. I wanted something more serious and realized i might be wasting my time here. (Lots of time i was team coach and captain. )
Don't take any of it back though. Met some great great people. Helped me improve as a player and coach. And still have a bunch of friends/teammates that i talk to regularly on battle net. And as far as catz saying anything negative. Why not just let actions speak for words. Has minigun won anything? Is he really worth arguing that hes more important then a whole gaming community? imo your kinda lame to me now lol. Be a boss. Not a complainer.
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On February 01 2013 06:23 QxGRockEr wrote:
vVv was a lot of fun. But as far as trying to go professional? Don't think that was really ever a actual thought. I left because after MLG i noticed vVv was basically just a big group of friends that wanted to manage a esports team. So each friend managed a division in games that competed. Totally fine. Do what you do. I wanted something more serious and realized i might be wasting my time here. (Lots of time i was team coach and captain. )
Don't take any of it back though. Met some great great people. Helped me improve as a player and coach. And still have a bunch of friends/teammates that i talk to regularly on battle net. And as far as catz saying anything negative. Why not just let actions speak for words. Has minigun won anything? Is he really worth arguing that hes more important then a whole gaming community? imo your kinda lame to me now lol. Be a boss. Not a complainer.
Well said 
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On January 31 2013 20:35 ROOTCatZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote:Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news". IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE. On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote:
seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two) Its under "community news" not "featured news". that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't. This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
I hate vvv but you are incorrect.
Time and murder were both pro players and both went to major events. Murder for example qualified for IEM and placed 4'th (this was the first NA IEM). He was GM when GM was out so was Time. Murder didn't last long cause he quit playing after iem and time well he joined iS after dominating in clan wars and stuff with vVv for like a year and then eventually quit as well.
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I have a lot of positive things to say about vVv Gaming. Ive been so busy with work I haven't even had a chance to write a proper statement. vVv Gaming has fulfilled so many promises.
Despite what people believed we had three different versions of our team that were competing at the top level. We had a few top 48 MLG Appearances and fallen short of champ bracket 1 game quite a few times. To me, this is an incredible feat for a semi-professional team. We all had jobs, school, and other things. We didnt have salaries, or heavy sponsorship, but every single SC2 player on vVv gaming started from the bottom and worked their way up.
vVv Gaming has sponsored much more than a SC2 division. And its no secret that is mostly funded by the owner himself.
Let me be the first to say to you that vVv Gaming has made decisions that really pissed me off. However, these decisions to cut sponsors, cut players, cut other things have all been due to tight money micromanagement. vVv Gaming cant afford to send 10+ players to each event in hopes to break out in the champ bracket.
Lord Jerith might not be very liked by our community, but the man is incredibly smart and totally no afraid to stir the pot. He didnt get where he is today, wasting money, and time. The man has even dropped me from the sponsored team before, and what did I do? Sure I felt like it was undeserved, but it motivated me, and they gave me another chance. We've had arguments. This guy isnt afraid to hurt my feelings, and im not afraid to hurt is. But the good thing about him and I is that people like us dont hold grudges, and I'm sure if you had continued beef with LJ that he would hear you out to possibly figure it out as men.
If popularity was such an important issue, vVv Gaming wouldn't of dropped two different MLG Champions in MK9, as well as the rest of the successful fighting division. One of the most successful for their genres. Why did they get dropped? Well they continuously forgot their jerseys which represent our brand and sponsors. I know that when i leave for ANY event that my jersey is one of the first things packed. He could of held onto their success and milked it for all it was worth, but he has to make these decisions. No professional team is okay with you forgetting your proper attire. You wont even be able to play.
Now, as for NubRgini, I'm sorry things didnt work out for him, and I do believe he deserved some compensation. However, but to go public with this sort of thing is very wrong and this negative PR wasn't needed and could of easily been solved behind closed doors.
As for aspire leaving.. You guys made John's problem your entire problem. You all left because of this, but vVv gave you a home, mumble, forums, access to other resources to help build and sustain your community. There was a lot of room left for improvement with Aspire before there could of been further considerations of sponsorship.
vVv Gaming has tried many things to spark our SC2 community.
We concistently sent players to MLG and supported them heavily.
We hosted Wednsday Night StarCraft for almost an entire year. We invited professional and amateur teams come challenge us for 100$. and we paid that same day.
We hosted the losers bracket pod cast and invited many SC2 personalities on the show. I highly recommend watching vVv Lord Jeirth and vVv Paradise talk to Liquid'Sheth about esports.
After MLG Anaheim and a poor showing by the entire team, the management dropped a few sponsorships and held onto RuFF and Glon. I couldnt blame them for their decision. We were currently rebuilding our third team, we established contracts for Seohyeon, and NSHShuttle, but we continued to struggle and we were losingmore than 50% of our Wedsnday Night Starcrafts.
Jerry decided to stop wasting money, he wanted us to win the majority and to go down in style at MLG. We weren't performing and once again wasted his money.
We also booted up an Academy, after feed back from team liquid, to send one of our amatuers to MLG. Guess what happened? The division didnt take the opportunity and run with it and Jerry, once again, felt like it would be money wasted if they didnt practice.
THEN WE STARTED EXPERIENCE INITIATIVE.
Which myself tried to start. In short, the proffesionals support the community, and vVv will compensate you. Things like coaching, streaming, posting on forums and replay reviews. I tried it for a short time, but for someone like me who has 50 hour work weeks and additional school - I just simply didnt have the time to take advantage of the opportunity. And RuFF was asked to resign after he discontinued adding value back to the team.
I just wanted you all to know that vVv Gaming was an amazing experience and I'm sorry for all the bed energy that is going around a company a grew to love.
Every MLG I went to I was heavily supported, I was given great life advice, and taken out to dinners. I was given gear, and met amazing professional gamers across so mannny different games.
I just wanted people to know that there are so many great things about the company and that due to some individuals that decided to make stupid posts, it tarnishes a whole organizations reputation.
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On January 30 2013 02:22 Zennith wrote:Post from LordJerith: Show nested quote +Watching this saddens me. A decision has been made. One that I whole-heartedly support. Any organization has to set priorities. Doom and Rob made an unpopular decision. Good. I applaud their courage in looking long-term and being smart enough to focus on what they feel most passionate about. My view on this:
-vVv should have dropped sc2 sooner
-focus on your passions. Rob and Doom are clearly passionate about LoL, shootmania and CoD
-the negativity and response from the sc2 community is no suprise
- the outright lies from some people who were in vVv, although sad to see, is not worth a response
So, the sc2 community now hates vVv. This is expected. Some people don't like how they handled it. This is also expected. This is the kind of call that always upsets people. Aspire left, they close.d the division. If it's important to stress that Aspire left, ok, consider it so stressed, lol.
The good news is vVv will benefit from Rob and Doom making tough calls, focusing the organization and supporting team titles like LoL, Shootmania and CoD. MICHS and FIFA also. I know they have great plans for 2013. This all will pass. The world moves on. Be kind to one another. Think before you post. Onward! He's just so full of himself, I've hated this guy since I first heard him talk, and he just can't admit or even believe that he or vVv could do anything wrong. Kinda hilarious and also sad for those who work under him. Also, I want to note - he notes that Aspire left, but praises his staff for making the tough call? Was it a tough call really to close a division that no longer had any players?
Whether they were removed, or they left actually MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. If they left, rebuilding the division isnt plausible for a fourth time. Especially since WoL is almost at its end. If they stayed, would the division of stayed? Yes? When they say closing their division it wasnt personal.. I dont see how it could of been personal. It was realistic. Without the aspire community the division was dead.
And truth be told. Maybe vVv.sc2 should of passed on with our last real semi-pro team. However, lots of friendships were made and now they have found each other. Whether it be on vVv or not.
With that being said. I still felt like the exit of the division could of been held better.
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I had posted this in the other article but felt it should be here as well.
Interesting stuff =/. I'm dead tired, so I apologize if this is incoherent
As a member of the old squad consisting of Time, Murder, Rigid and Myself (ruff came a little later <3), I should probably say a few things. To me, Jerry was rather forward of what he expected and truthfully gave us the conditions which were expected in order to earn a sponsorship. I can even remember the times at MLG where he would completely annihilate me for not performing well enough-- threatening to drop me, etc. (it was true, I could have really done well. Although, the one time I did well, I wasn't forced to catch a flight the day of at 6am and play until 1am into the 4th bracket. Ironically, the one time I showed up the day before, I only ended up losing to white-ra 2-1). At the time, he wanted to pull sponsorship completely and raze the sc2 division to the ground. But, he couldn't. He was stuck with us because all the more known players were taken, leaving him us.
So, he tried to build a foundation for vVv by making the most talented player the captain, Murder. Fast-forward a few months and life pulls him away for a little bit. Time decides to move on, Rigid is already gone (miss you!), and i'm pretty much the only one remaining. This is when Ruff and Hasu show up to fulfill the open roster spots in efforts to piece the team back together. But, no offense, Murder and Time were the stronger players at the time and helped put vvv on the map for early sc2.
This is about the time sponsorship actually hit its peak for vVv. All the events previous to the time ruff, hasu, and myself competed, I paid out of my pocket to attend (minus hotel). For I think 2-3 events, Jerry ended up paying the full sponsorship as promised from the contracts during this time. Sadly, we performed horribly (except ruff. lol at strifeco game). So, Rhode Island was pretty much the last major venture I think vVv ended up taking. Well, at least for the time I was there.
I don't know if this has shared any revelation of what not, but I thought it should at lest be written for whoever feels the need to read my shitty writing.
Personally, I like Jerry and Jordan. They are intelligent men who have helped me along my way through life and countless others who were on the team. It is odd when your boss talks to you more about personal issues/life than he does the business side.
As for the business side, I can understand the reasoning for Jerry's investment and the realism he displayed during my time with them. However, I do believe they missed an opportunity when Time/Murder/Myself were seriously considering a team house. The talent of murder and the freaking genius of Time was absurd. I think we could have made a strong team, especially with Glon/Rocker/Ruff/Hasu coming to the team a little later. We could have been scary... so much talent, what a waste.
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Great to see your post Titan. I hope you are doing well my friend :D.
Thanks for your input, it matters to me and others.
Hes quite right though, we had an amazing team and slowly, everyone peaked and left at different periods. Its too bad our team house didnt come through, because I feel that vVv would of stayed at the top of NA with the old lineup and improving lineup.
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On February 01 2013 08:33 Hasuu wrote:
If popularity was such an important issue
vVv Gaming wouldn't of dropped two different MLG Champions in MK9
Well they continuously forgot their jerseys which represent our brand and sponsors.
I'm not sure what you mean by "popularity" here. Popularity with the gaming community as a whole? Yes, vVv certainly didn't care about that. Popularity of there players? Like you just mentioned, players were fired because the team couldn't milk them enough. They most certainly considered that an important issue.
I'm well-versed on the issue with vVv's fighting game roster and they most certainly should be wearing their sponsored gear. I actually agree with releasing them if it happened as often as vVv claims (the players certainly contested this). But the whole issue was that LJ wasn't able to milk them as much as he wanted in the first place, which is all about their popularity. You're basically proving the opposite point!
On February 01 2013 08:33 Hasuu wrote:
Now, as for NubRgini, I'm sorry things didnt work out for him, and I do believe he deserved some compensation. However, but to go public with this sort of thing is very wrong and this negative PR wasn't needed and could of easily been solved behind closed doors.
I (and I assume many others in the community) most certainly doubt that anything would have gotten solved behind closed doors. The guy has 0 respect for his players. He should've been out there finding more sponsors rather than
On February 01 2013 08:33 Hasuu wrote:
vVv Gaming has tried many things to spark our SC2 community.
We concistently sent players to MLG and supported them heavily.
First off, funny that there's no signs of that anywhere.
And second, no, no you really didn't support them worth a damn.
On February 01 2013 08:56 Hasuu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 02:22 Zennith wrote:Post from LordJerith: Watching this saddens me. A decision has been made. One that I whole-heartedly support. Any organization has to set priorities. Doom and Rob made an unpopular decision. Good. I applaud their courage in looking long-term and being smart enough to focus on what they feel most passionate about. My view on this:
-vVv should have dropped sc2 sooner
-focus on your passions. Rob and Doom are clearly passionate about LoL, shootmania and CoD
-the negativity and response from the sc2 community is no suprise
- the outright lies from some people who were in vVv, although sad to see, is not worth a response
So, the sc2 community now hates vVv. This is expected. Some people don't like how they handled it. This is also expected. This is the kind of call that always upsets people. Aspire left, they close.d the division. If it's important to stress that Aspire left, ok, consider it so stressed, lol.
The good news is vVv will benefit from Rob and Doom making tough calls, focusing the organization and supporting team titles like LoL, Shootmania and CoD. MICHS and FIFA also. I know they have great plans for 2013. This all will pass. The world moves on. Be kind to one another. Think before you post. Onward! He's just so full of himself, I've hated this guy since I first heard him talk, and he just can't admit or even believe that he or vVv could do anything wrong. Kinda hilarious and also sad for those who work under him. Also, I want to note - he notes that Aspire left, but praises his staff for making the tough call? Was it a tough call really to close a division that no longer had any players? Whether they were removed, or they left actually MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. If they left, rebuilding the division isnt plausible for a fourth time. Especially since WoL is almost at its end. If they stayed, would the division of stayed? Yes? When they say closing their division it wasnt personal.. I dont see how it could of been personal. It was realistic. Without the aspire community the division was dead.
See, yes, yes it does matter. One is the truth and the other is a blatant lie to make vVv's management look better. My mind is blown how you can pretend that somehow isn't relevant. I've seen a massive share of spindoctoring in my time and I rarely get this frustrated with posts, but come on.
If you want to contribute, stick to your personal experiences. I'd encourage you to share and bring a different point of view to the thread. Just don't try to sweep things under the rug and don't try to fog the issue.
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(Amazing what searching your name on TL will find you)
Late on this, but I already see that I was right when I left. I had some doubts that maybe vVv wanted to continue on the competetive side of things, but from the looks of it; its not happening. Even if your competetive or not, I highly suggest keeping starcraft in your selection of growing games, seeing as it is the 2nd largest game in the United States. If you focus only on league you may run into problems down the road, Even if you don't offer sponsorships anymore, keep it going.
Also for all those who consider themselves L33tists in this forum. (aka ROOT). I highly suggest keeping down the e-p. Unless your over in korea competing, you can expect the NA scene to be !@#$ compared to the korean scene. People like you guys are based on your creativeness and entertainment, not because your good. When it comes to the NA scene, MLG has shown me that it is a pushover compared to korean players. Hence I hardily lose to NA players at MLG. Which is why I love to rush and nuke people and still win against GM players lawl lawl lawl. *Trolls*
heh
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EPT
