[i]Los Angeles, California – January 28, 2013 – Today, vVv Gaming bids farewell to its Starcraft 2 Division. With more than two years behind the title, we look back at some of our greatest successes and projects with our StarCraft players and community...
...vVv has had an excellent run with the competitive title and it is with fondness that we say goodbye. As of January 28th, vVv Gaming will no longer support a StarCraft 2 division. With players heading to other titles and the competitive support continuing to decline, we wish our StarCraft community members all the best in their future endeavors. With leaders like Babytoss, Razor and Salvor, we’re confident that they will continue to grow, expand and accomplish great things outside of vVv Gaming...
Some players have disputed the accuracy of the account, instead characterizing the closure instead as a player-exodus due to dissatisfaction with management.
I see all the talk about "We will coordinate with you guys with a good-bye thread" was nothing else but a lie.
Well, the truth is, the division as a whole agreed to leave vVv due to lack of visible support from upper management, which was always busy with LoL community inhouses and other stuff, and SC2 was just a bother to them. Alas, here goes my statement, why I and the others decided to leave:
"As of today, I am no longer part of vVv Gaming. We decided to part ways on mutual agreement. Here is my personal statement: "It is time to move on. I joined vVv Gaming in April 2012, with hopes to grow both as a person and a StarCraft 2 player. I ended up coming up with Aspire in the end, to create the desired environment not just for myself, but also for other like-minded people, who wished to pursue StarCraft 2 on more competitive level.
In the end, the direction, which vVv Gaming began to take in last three months was in contradiction to the old values, reasons why I joined the organization and promises from the management, which began directing focus in other way, with their actions and decisions. As such, I believe moving on is the best way for both sides. I personally cannot continue supporting an organization, which doesn't visibly support my division, my team and the game.
All in all, if it wasn't for me joining vVv Gaming, I'd never get to chance to meet some of the awesome people here, I would not learn to be a captain of a team. Despite of all, thank you for all that time. I and my team may be leaving vVv Gaming, but I am not leaving StarCraft 2."
The statement from RobZ is misleading, here's how it really went down.
Upper management removes the SC2 community, and the sponsered team (1 month after adding a High level player), but decides to keep the Aspire program. The point of the Aspire program (in our eyes) was to get us to a level to play on the sponsored team.
With the sponsored team being removed, a clear lack of direction upper management wanted to take with the division, no interest being shown from the upper management in concerns with the happenings with in the SC2 division, and the lack of communication between upper management and the SC2 division members/managers, the ENTIRE SC2 division lost faith that upper management truly had the best interest in the SC2 division at heart.
The excuse we were given from upper management was "they were spread to thin" and focusing on other projects. It just so happens that all of those projects focused on LoL. I'm fine with that, if that's their passion, go for it. But when other people within the SC2 community want to step up and get things rolling, because upper management doesn't is dragging their feet, the community members were constantly getting shut down, or sometimes not even addressed at all.
So the SC2 division came to the conclusion that vVv's upper management was only serving as a hindrance, and served no real use to the division as a whole, so the Aspire program decided to leave vVv.
If I'm wrong, may I be struck down where I stand (sit).
and
That's why everyone is upset. Doom and RobZ told Salvor that they'd be coordinating with eachother on an official release, so that vVv would get to say what they wanted, but the terms on which Aspire was leaving were absolutely clear. Doom and RobZ went completely over Sals head, and did not keep their word on the matter, only looking to cover their own ass, and perform as much damage control as possible, because it sounds a lot better to say.
"We're not supporting SC2 anymore, because the scene is shrinking," (an ignorant statement, showing their general lack of knowledge in the scene as a whole) rather than saying, "We no longer have an SC2 division, because our SC2 division lost faith in our management".
vVv is obviously using misdirection, and I honestly feel bad for a lot of the people in this community that are legitimately good people, and are getting/going to get screwed over by vVv. I can't blame them, I thought that a lot of the hate on vVv was unjustified when I first joined vVv, now I see it was more then justified.
Not really surprised. I was in them a long while ago and this happened with several games. I really don't understand the reasoning for most of the stuff they do.
I'm not surprised. The team has very little achievements in major tournaments and everyone who was good or at least decent left a long time ago, so lack of sponsorships and support from management is only expected.
In fact my only surprise is that this didn't happen sooner.
maybe i'm getting confused with dates, but wasn't a new player just recently announced by them? Surprised they'd do that then claim to shut down the program, anyway i wish the Aspire players the best of luck!
Karma has finally come around on vVv their management has been known around the sc2 community as just flat out terrible. Anyone questioning this should find the post of ROOTCatz thoughts on reddit where he basically calls the leader out super hard
Yet another so called proteam who's players I can't even recognize or even can recall seeing in off-line tournaments. @Zeon0: you know more than me then, I didn't even know the team existed before I read this thread.
Their departing statement seemed really disrespectful and it's even worse that it's being shown that not only are they lying about the reasons for closing the sc2 division but also mis=-treated players and then on top of all that their manager is a dirtbag. Well time to boycott vvv gaming in the continued fight against asshole business men. I just hope no one good gets caught in the cross fire or get's anything unjust ala destiny.
Haven't even seen their tag since 2011. RuFF was an entertaining player. I think they had Titan earlier in his career as well? Can't say I'll miss them, but departure of teams isn't great news.
On January 29 2013 22:05 RodrigoX wrote: Their departing statement seemed really disrespectful and it's even worse that it's being shown that not only are they lying about the reasons for closing the sc2 division but also mis=-treated players and then on top of all that their manager is a dirtbag. Well time to boycott vvv gaming in the continued fight against asshole business men. I just hope no one good gets caught in the cross fire or get's anything unjust ala destiny.
There are worse excuses made actually, one other team, which i can't recall who, said that the "Esports business model" did not work. What exactly is the "Esports business model" and how does it differ from the general advertisement/sponsorship model, how exactly did it not work, and if so why does so many other teams still profit, like TL, EG and so forth.
It shouldn't matter whether we're "known" players or academy players or even just community members. People were lied to, sponsored, academy and community members alike. I'm not saying everyone should feel bad for us, but they shouldn't say "well vVv is trash and their players are trash so who cares" either. We (the SC2 members that left) shouldn't catch the flak for things we had no part in.
On January 29 2013 22:08 Cattlecruiser wrote: Honestly, I thought they were just a clan.
Haven't even seen their tag since 2011. RuFF was an entertaining player. I think they had Titan earlier in his career as well? Can't say I'll miss them, but departure of teams isn't great news.
Different Titan, but yes, he was probably their most notable player in terms of representing the team since the start. Was too bad he didn't play SC2 for long After Titan departed it seems like the team constantly continued to fall.
The fact that the management blames declining competitive support shows the true qualities of the organisation - clueless. I bet they get their knowledge of the industry off Reddit and Destiny. SC2 is, by far, the second biggest eSport title out there, and probably the biggest when it comes to third party support. If anything, just say the truth: that being noticeable in competitive SC2 is much more expensive than being noticeable in Shootmania or Call of Duty, but NOT that competitive support is 'continuing to decline' lol.
On January 29 2013 22:03 ineversmile wrote: Good riddance to unprofessional team management;
good luck to the players themselves.
Completely agree. Hopefully, if the players are still deadset on pro-gaming, they'll find a new home with an environment more conducive to their interests and career goals, where they can become even better players than they already are.
On January 29 2013 22:08 Cattlecruiser wrote: Honestly, I thought they were just a clan.
Haven't even seen their tag since 2011. RuFF was an entertaining player. I think they had Titan earlier in his career as well? Can't say I'll miss them, but departure of teams isn't great news.
Usually try to refrain from talking junk about teams, especially after something like this, but they seriously won't be missed. Most of the encounters with guys on their team have been pretty negative, at least according to anybody I've talked to.
It is sad to see another team fall apart through poor management. Makes it even more ludicrous how people in the community bash EG considering they fully support and promote their players and actually pay them their agreed salaries. More and more stories keep coming to light that many other teams do not manage this. It is clear the community needs more teams like EG and less teams like vVv and Apex.
Every person involved with vvv I've ever met has either been a complete bm dick, or someone who has pretty much accepted the organization is terrible and going nowhere.
I actually feel bad for the few members drawn into this crap. Noobrogini or w/e his name is seems like a pretty cool guy from the few times I've seen him in chat channels. It's really sad that more and more teams seem to pop up with no clue wtf they are doing.
I think the worst thing about this is it's just another blow to the (already) tiny NA scene. It's hard enough to get on a decent team with the poor infrastructure we have now, and with vvv being one of the larger teams (how sad is that?) all it does it make NA seem like more of a failure.
Man I told you on the mTw post, Blizzard needs to get their act together before SC2 is gone from competitive gaming. I hate to say it but I think Destiny was right; the just isn't going to pull in the numbers because there isn't a big enough "casual gamer" fan base.
On January 29 2013 22:39 JDStrafe wrote: Man I told you on the mTw post, Blizzard needs to get their act together before SC2 is gone from competitive gaming. I hate to say it but I think Destiny was right; the just isn't going to pull in the numbers because there isn't a big enough "casual gamer" fan base.
That's far from the reason why mTw and vVv shut down. In fact, it's not related in any way.
I remember in 2010 watching vVvRuff's stream in classes, but they weren't extraordinarily relevant to the scene anymore as a team anymore. As far as I know in LoL they aren't precisely the creme de la creme either. I think the best way I have heard this put is the SC2 division left vVv not the other way around. We'll see what happens to their line up.
On January 29 2013 22:39 JDStrafe wrote: Man I told you on the mTw post, Blizzard needs to get their act together before SC2 is gone from competitive gaming. I hate to say it but I think Destiny was right; the just isn't going to pull in the numbers because there isn't a big enough "casual gamer" fan base.
Did you read anything in this thread at all? You couldn't be further away from relevant if you tried.
Odds are, and this is pure speculation, SteelSeries gave them the financial finger when they moved around a lot of their sponsorship recently. In this case, I couldn't blame them the slightest. Incompetence abound.
On January 29 2013 22:08 Cattlecruiser wrote: Honestly, I thought they were just a clan.
Haven't even seen their tag since 2011. RuFF was an entertaining player. I think they had Titan earlier in his career as well? Can't say I'll miss them, but departure of teams isn't great news.
Different Titan, but yes, he was probably their most notable player in terms of representing the team since the start. Was too bad he didn't play SC2 for long After Titan departed it seems like the team constantly continued to fall.
Ah, I see one is Russian and the other American. I remember in one of the earlier MLGs Titan was a strong candidate to impress.
With HoTS, I hope that North American scene will stabilize to more teams like clarity instead of these small groups of clan type organizations.
On January 29 2013 22:39 JDStrafe wrote: Man I told you on the mTw post, Blizzard needs to get their act together before SC2 is gone from competitive gaming. I hate to say it but I think Destiny was right; the just isn't going to pull in the numbers because there isn't a big enough "casual gamer" fan base.
That's far from the reason why mTw and vVv shut down. In fact, it's not related in any way.
Management was the problem for both of those.
No he is right, if Blizzard actually solved the problems they would have time over to go into these teams and run them for them since the teams themselves obviously don't know what they are doing. Dustin could had run mTv and David Kim could had taken over vVv and everything would had been fine. I blame this on Blizzard as well
Man this is weird. I mean a community disbanding is incredibly rare. vVv was not a team, but a community, and the fact they disbanded means that there was probably some insanely weird inhouse problems.
I remember how I was forced to leave because I couldn't afford my MLG trip back in March 2011. They had a really nice team spirit and we meshed very well for the 1 week that lasted. The management was a joke and it was really unfortunate.
On January 29 2013 23:11 FXOdesRow wrote: I remember how I was forced to leave because I couldn't afford my MLG trip back in March 2011. They had a really nice team spirit and we meshed very well for the 1 week that lasted. The management was a joke and it was really unfortunate.
Forced to leave because you couldn't afford the trip? Wow.
I had saw this coming since a lot of people I had met were from vVv and they all complained about the poor management, and how the old values of vVv were never kept.
On January 29 2013 23:11 Shellshock1122 wrote: I thought this team already died months ago
This, they died off from the scene early 2012. They used to do a lot of streaming but I guess losing the organization isn't a huge ordeal. Still sad about the players though.
On January 29 2013 22:39 JDStrafe wrote: Man I told you on the mTw post, Blizzard needs to get their act together before SC2 is gone from competitive gaming. I hate to say it but I think Destiny was right; the just isn't going to pull in the numbers because there isn't a big enough "casual gamer" fan base.
So it's Blizzards fault that small teams aren't supporting their players or eSports titles enough and are then closing? vVv has had poor management for ages, and it's no wonder that they're closing their SC2 division. In the case of vvv and mTw they failed to invest in their SC2 teams. It's not Blizzard's job to invest in a the SC2 divisions of teams, it's the team's job. What do you think is going to happen if you take SC2 players, or any eSports players on to your team and then just leave them sit there to rot without investing in them? The team isn't going to last.
Destiny doesn't have anything to do with small teams disbanding either. His points were that Blizzard needs to do more to make their game casual friendly and they have added some positive casual player aspects to HotS that give them something to do while the rest of us play ladder and watch pro players play or whatever. Destiny's points were directed at the interests of casual PLAYERS, not casual teams. There is a huge difference there. The people Destiny's rant was for have likely never heard of either VVV or mTw.
I can see this happening more often as smaller teams find out that LoL has a much bigger market than SC2 right now and don't need to be to players to get 5k+ viewers on stream.
Wait, what is happening Hyuna and the vVv academy team? Are they leaving too? This is so sad, these guys were my favorite team to watch stream . That management is depressing, I hate the fact that they say they were spread too thin when it sounds like they just had a lot of apathy.
vVv had a few good player vVvRuff titan and a few others, but ya have not heard anything from vVv in a while so this actually does not shock me much. and it does make vVv look ignorant to the sc2 scene. when a new expansion is just about to come out lol
After meeting vVvParadise at MLG Orlando, I was introduced to the vVv guys and they seemed like a good group of guys. I hope they all find a good home :D
On January 30 2013 00:24 KAB00000000M wrote: Is the scene shrinking? But no matter the team. It is bad if they shut down.
Small teams rise and fall all the time.The scene is not shrinking...sure we lost a couple of big teams (Slayers,TSL) but we got some new ones Azubu,Axiom,Clarity...and i think with HotS here on the doorstep things will continue to grow.
This doesn't even seem like a dispute. The management said they're dissolving their SC2 division because they don't see a future in it. The players say they left because the sponsored team was dissolved and the management seemed disinterested. Seems to me that if the management dissolved the sponsored team and were disinterested, it was probably because they didn't see a future in SC2.
If I had to guess I'd say there was some clause in the agreement vVv had with the players in the Aspire program that would make it easier for the organization, either legally, financially, or whatever, if the players quit. So they just let them quit.
On January 30 2013 00:26 djukger wrote: well to be fair the raging guy on the clip has quite a lot of valid points
Sometimes presentation is more important than the points themselves. How you conduct yourself and present your argument can be more persuasive than your ideas. That guy has no idea how to manipulate public speaking, he just yells and gets loud.
Sad to see vVv leave this space. vVv has spent thousands of dollars, between WNS and sponsoring players to events (Rigid, RuFF, Hasuu, Glon, RockEr, MurDeR, Titan, NGry, etc.), in the SC2 space (many of those players probably wouldn't have been sponsored by other organizations and never would've gotten the opportunity to compete at a major LAN).
On January 29 2013 22:08 Cattlecruiser wrote: Honestly, I thought they were just a clan.
Haven't even seen their tag since 2011. RuFF was an entertaining player. I think they had Titan earlier in his career as well? Can't say I'll miss them, but departure of teams isn't great news.
Same here! I never knew they were considered an actual team, which shows how inept their management truly were.
Also that video is pretty terrible. Glad I never watched whatever that show was.
Lol, I remember warning people on these forums when vVv announced a division.
They have always been a joke of an organization to most people involved in eSports. They came from a console fps background, so not much else should have been expected. These guys who manage vVv have never learned the ropes of eSports before plunging into it. Like most console gamers, they thought they knew it all because they had sent a few teams to MLG to play in some garbage console fps (before MLG dropped the Halo nonsense and picked up SC2 as it's first non-joke game).
It is sad to see, one of my friends who was on the team expressed his view on everything that has happened (which did not sound good). I just hope that competent teams will pick up these players. Good riddance!
I respect vVv Gaming for winning titles in countless games but that doesn't mean the majority of vVv members aren't teenage boys with giant egos. They call themselves an 'Academy Team'. They advertise that anyone who passes an evaluation can join and rise through the ranks of their respective game and eventually be on the team that vVv pays to go out to events. Bullshit! All everything is in that community is a popularity contest. They don't evaluate possible members on being respectful, loyal and well-mannered, they only look for skill in their members. The entire vVv community is tainted with negativity and it shows in the upper-management all the way down to the AM players.
On another note: I can't believe how ignorant some of you are. Just because vVv Gaming hasn't accomplished anything in Starcraft 2 doesn't mean they don't dominate a ton of other games. They're the biggest gaming team in the world and the only team that comes close to the amount of teams that travel to events is Dignitas.
On January 29 2013 23:55 Martijn wrote: NuBrGNi says he'll be making a statement on the matter shortly on his experience with vVv.
a statement? more like a blog post. He was on the team for a month, even though they dicked him, his experience is small to say the least. Just let it go and stop acting like it was a pro team.
They have always been a joke of an organization to most people involved in eSports. They came from a console fps background, so not much else should have been expected. These guys who manage vVv have never learned the ropes of eSports before plunging into it. Like most console gamers, they thought they knew it all because they had sent a few teams to MLG to play in some garbage console fps (before MLG dropped the Halo nonsense and picked up SC2 as it's first non-joke game).
Woah, I know many people that compete in console shooters that are respectable people. Also, Halo isn't a joke, or at least wasn't before Starcraft came along and stole the show. If it wasn't for Halo, MLG would've eventually collapsed. Halo was their staple game for 6 years.
On January 30 2013 01:17 Limelights wrote: On another note: I can't believe how ignorant some of you are. Just because vVv Gaming hasn't accomplished anything in Starcraft 2 doesn't mean they don't dominate a ton of other games. They're the biggest gaming team in the world and the only team that comes close to the amount of teams that travel to events is Dignitas.
They had some decent FGC players, as far as I know they got cut even though they performed as well. Aside from that, I can't recall them dominating anything. Also, I'm skeptical about them being the biggest gaming team in the world, it depends on your definition at the least.
They have always been a joke of an organization to most people involved in eSports. They came from a console fps background, so not much else should have been expected. These guys who manage vVv have never learned the ropes of eSports before plunging into it. Like most console gamers, they thought they knew it all because they had sent a few teams to MLG to play in some garbage console fps (before MLG dropped the Halo nonsense and picked up SC2 as it's first non-joke game).
Woah, I know many people that compete in console shooters that are respectable people. Also, Halo isn't a joke, or at least wasn't before Starcraft came along and stole the show. If it wasn't for Halo, MLG would've eventually collapsed. Halo was their staple game for 6 years.
And in this 6 years MLG was not on eSports radar at all. Just saying, PC Games brought MLG in a position to gain money of their games/viewers and not just live of venture capital.
On another note: I can't believe how ignorant some of you are. Just because vVv Gaming hasn't accomplished anything in Starcraft 2 doesn't mean they don't dominate a ton of other games. They're the biggest gaming team in the world and the only team that comes close to the amount of teams that travel to events is Dignitas.
.... what?
Both teams you just named are no one on the eSports scale... Dignitas has earned respect though.
vVv is big, sure, but I can pickup rosters of 30 players for each game played online myself. I can add a 350-man guild to my organization too... The only people who ever made waves for vVv were the clowns on WCG Ultimate Gamer (where the only actual progamer was incontrol) and they lied about their skills and experience and are shitty scrubs who's only claim to fame is placing top3 in guitar hero tournaments. Bunch of nobodies ran by some old douchebag with no clue and no understanding of the industry who has some money to splash but no viable business model.
That moron running vVv in his clip trashing on 1.6 makes me laugh, multigaming teams wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for 1.6 carrying "esports" on it's back when the term wasn't even coined yet.
Also mad lols for him talking shit about scoots, what a fucking clown, vVv was always a joke
Also, when's the last time vVv scored scholarships for their players (you'll understand if you listen to the youtube clip, where he trashes on EG, MLG and co)? Herpity derp, LordJerith is an insult to intelligence, good thing he doesn't know how to read though, we won't have to deal with his bullshit on here.
On January 30 2013 01:37 Split Behemoth wrote: Didn't even known that team was proffessional. Bad thing to see another team disband like that even if it's a small one.
vVv Gaming has lost it's semi-pro lineup after Glon, Daisuki, RockEr and SeoHyun left.
SC2 had a community lineup (which sadly caused some bad reputation as well, with some of their members having a bad attitude due to lack of proper organization and order) and an Academy lineup, which was led by me, later on, another Academy Squad was put up by a fellow teammate; with the goal of accomodating those, who wished to pursue SC2 in more serious way than the SC2 community members. I'm sorry if there was any confusion about that.
Sadly, despite of us telling the upper vVv Management they should try some more to spread into SC2 scene & rebuild a proper A team, we were not even taken into consideration and all their visible efforts were put into LoL, especially since LordJerith has taken a position in Riot. And sadly, the latest recruit NuBrGNi ended up the way he did; with promises, which were not fulfilled; despite of fulfilling every requirement the upper management had on him and it was actually a last straw for our Academy and whole SC2 division causing us to leave. So, combined with lack of interest in the SC2 community, the game itself and that, I think it's pretty much good reason to leave.
Not to mention the notoriously bad reputation vVv Gaming had => to make you understand, it is hard to see the real problem of the organization, unless you are really working with the upper management. They are deeply sat on their own truths and logical arguments are not taken under consideration without you getting belittled and eventually being called "toxic". The moment you disagree with them, you "complain".
I just wish, that we had more chances to prove ourselves as a decent, passionate SC2 players to the SC2 community, but it just seems that the stamp of vVv's bad reputation simply stayed with us, no matter how much organization & passion there was in the Academy Team.
I respect vVv Gaming for winning titles in countless games but that doesn't mean the majority of vVv members aren't teenage boys with giant egos. They call themselves an 'Academy Team'. They advertise that anyone who passes an evaluation can join and rise through the ranks of their respective game and eventually be on the team that vVv pays to go out to events. Bullshit! All everything is in that community is a popularity contest. They don't evaluate possible members on being respectful, loyal and well-mannered, they only look for skill in their members. The entire vVv community is tainted with negativity and it shows in the upper-management all the way down to the AM players.
On another note: I can't believe how ignorant some of you are. Just because vVv Gaming hasn't accomplished anything in Starcraft 2 doesn't mean they don't dominate a ton of other games. They're the biggest gaming team in the world and the only team that comes close to the amount of teams that travel to events is Dignitas.
LOL where did you come up with this? I'm really curious to know how you can make such a claim saying we're nothing but egotistical teenagers when you don't even know us. Now I can't speak for the rest of vVv and what they've done but in regards to the academy team we've always had a positive attitude in what we do and this so called "popularity contest" is absurd. If it was solely based on skill, why would I even be apart of it considering I'm only a high platinum/low diamond player? We even have a guy who is a gold player and we had a kid who was in bronze until he focused more on LoL. In regards to players being disrespectful again I can't speak for the rest of vVv but I know when it comes to the Aspire team, BabyToss and Salvor would never allow a person to be on the team if they weren't well mannered and respectful. So until you can back up some sort of claim on how the academy players (not players on the old sponsored team) are supposedly negative and bad mannered, this needs to stop.
*Edit: Then I just read your comment about Halo and MLG and realized you really don't have a clue on what you're talking about
On January 29 2013 21:45 Tabashi wrote: vVv is killing eSports!
No... just no. I think you're just mad they closed their SC2 division in favor of other games. This statement sounds rather ignorant but that's just my opinion.
They have always been a joke of an organization to most people involved in eSports. They came from a console fps background, so not much else should have been expected. These guys who manage vVv have never learned the ropes of eSports before plunging into it. Like most console gamers, they thought they knew it all because they had sent a few teams to MLG to play in some garbage console fps (before MLG dropped the Halo nonsense and picked up SC2 as it's first non-joke game).
Woah, I know many people that compete in console shooters that are respectable people. Also, Halo isn't a joke, or at least wasn't before Starcraft came along and stole the show. If it wasn't for Halo, MLG would've eventually collapsed. Halo was their staple game for 6 years.
MLG was nothing until SC2...
While MLG was squandering venture capital giving emotional payouts (ie Sundance <3's Halo and ran MLG at a loss for years paying for players in a game that brought in no money), CS 1.6 and Q3 were featured in 95% of FPS tournaments and handing out 20000000000x more cash than MLG could dream of at the time.
While people like Jerith might not like history lessons, because they might contradict their "facts" and his twisted vision of "esports", back when MLG focused on consoles, CPL, WCG, ESWC, WEG, were the only names that mattered in FPS.
And then for a good laugh you'd youtube a clip of some 14 year old trying pathetically to aim with a joystick taking like 3 seconds to get his xhair on someone in halo or some shitty rainbow six XBOX title on MLG.
Sure, more people game on consoles than on pc's at the moment, but more people also believe in the bible than there are atheists. Does that excuse them for being dumb? Not in my opinion.
And to those who think MLG is in the business of making sound decisions, you might be amazed to learn that they just announced a new FPS title for next season.
Get ready for it .....
... PLANETSIDE 2
Yep. Not even trolling.
So whoever thinks MLG is some staple of credibility needs to reassess what is a good business decision and what is a fluke based on past decisions.
We got "lucky" that MLG picked up SC2, but it was probably their only smart decision since opening their doors. Halo, WoW, PS2, RB6 ... MLG is in the business of making a joke out of eSports and hopefully some day cash in on the wave if it goes mainstream.
On January 30 2013 01:37 Split Behemoth wrote: Didn't even known that team was proffessional. Bad thing to see another team disband like that even if it's a small one.
vVv Gaming has lost it's semi-pro lineup after Glon, Daisuki, RockEr and SeoHyun left.
SC2 had a community lineup (which sadly caused some bad reputation as well, with some of their members having a bad attitude due to lack of proper organization and order) and an Academy lineup, which was led by me, later on, another Academy Squad was put up by a fellow teammate; with the goal of accomodating those, who wished to pursue SC2 in more serious way than the SC2 community members. I'm sorry if there was any confusion about that.
Sadly, despite of us telling the upper vVv Management they should try some more to spread into SC2 scene & rebuild a proper A team, we were not even taken into consideration and all their visible efforts were put into LoL, especially since LordJerith has taken a position in Riot. And sadly, the latest recruit NuBrGNi ended up the way he did; with promises, which were not fulfilled; despite of fulfilling every requirement the upper management had on him and it was actually a last straw for our Academy and whole SC2 division causing us to leave. So, combined with lack of interest in the SC2 community, the game itself and that, I think it's pretty much good reason to leave.
Not to mention the notoriously bad reputation vVv Gaming had => to make you understand, it is hard to see the real problem of the organization, unless you are really working with the upper management. They are deeply sat on their own truths and logical arguments are not taken under consideration without you getting belittled and eventually being called "toxic". The moment you disagree with them, you "complain".
I just wish, that we had more chances to prove ourselves as a decent, passionate SC2 players to the SC2 community, but it just seems that the stamp of vVv's bad reputation simply stayed with us, no matter how much organization & passion there was in the Academy Team.
Hi-
I just want to address the part where you say that we had unfulfilled promises to NuBrGNi. We told Salvor (SC2 Manager) to ask him for an estimate on his flight for Dallas (which is routine for every event), this led him to the assumption that we were covering his flight. "i just assumed i was attendin dallas cause he came up to me with the topic" direct quote from my convo with John (NuBrGNi) from skype, this whole thing is has a lot of details that simply are not true. The issue with Glon was that we were transitioning between SC2 management before Dallas and booked his flight later than usual, but everything that he was "promised" was delivered just like every other sponsored player vVv has worked with.
I just want to address the part where you say that we had unfulfilled promises to NuBrGNi. We told Salvor (SC2 Manager) to ask him for an estimate on his flight for Dallas (which is routine for every event), this led him to the assumption that we were covering his flight. "i just assumed i was attendin dallas cause he came up to me with the topic" direct quote from my convo with John (NuBrGNi) from skype, this whole thing is has a lot of details that simply are not true. The issue with Glon was that we were transitioning between SC2 management before Dallas. We booked his flight later than usual because of this, but everything he was "promised" was delivered just like every other sponsored player vVv has worked with.
Well, I'm sure NuBrGNi will have something to say on this topic, don't want to speak entirely on his behalf.
I was on vVv way back in 2011, nice to see everyone coming out of the woodworks with experiences similar to my own. Story time? Yeah lets do story time...
Way back in 2008-09, there was a great clan of friends on Iccup (broodwar) known as Team Funtastic. We had a vent and everything, just a bunch of guys who loved to play hangout and play starcraft.
FastForward to sc2 beta in early 2010 and we're thinking about getting serious (at least the more competitiveness among us such as me, blade murder etc.) We even changed our name to Quantum gaming and hired a guy to make a real site for us (before we were just using enjin). Our manager (who went on to become vVv Roar, first manager of vVv sc2 division) got us into contact with vVv around late 2010/early 2011 .
After some deliberation the majority of the team/clan decided to join vVv. It was a mistake...such a mistake. They only valued the best players of the team and the only worth of our non competitive was to advertise for vVv by posting in the forums (daily IIRC) and reposting twitter and facebook links. If you didn't do that you would be kicked out, a good number of funtastic/quantum left pretty quickly because they did not want to advertise...just wanted to play starcraft...
Everyone who was originally on quantum/funtastic ended up leaving vVv over time, Murder, Time, Allej, Me, Blade, and other good starcraft players whose names are escaping me atm.
You know Hots has clans... think I might restart Funtastic.
Watching this saddens me. A decision has been made. One that I whole-heartedly support. Any organization has to set priorities. Doom and Rob made an unpopular decision. Good. I applaud their courage in looking long-term and being smart enough to focus on what they feel most passionate about. My view on this:
-vVv should have dropped sc2 sooner -focus on your passions. Rob and Doom are clearly passionate about LoL, shootmania and CoD -the negativity and response from the sc2 community is no suprise - the outright lies from some people who were in vVv, although sad to see, is not worth a response
So, the sc2 community now hates vVv. This is expected. Some people don't like how they handled it. This is also expected. This is the kind of call that always upsets people. Aspire left, they close.d the division. If it's important to stress that Aspire left, ok, consider it so stressed, lol.
The good news is vVv will benefit from Rob and Doom making tough calls, focusing the organization and supporting team titles like LoL, Shootmania and CoD. MICHS and FIFA also. I know they have great plans for 2013. This all will pass. The world moves on. Be kind to one another. Think before you post. Onward!
He's just so full of himself, I've hated this guy since I first heard him talk, and he just can't admit or even believe that he or vVv could do anything wrong. Kinda hilarious and also sad for those who work under him.
Also, I want to note - he notes that Aspire left, but praises his staff for making the tough call? Was it a tough call really to close a division that no longer had any players?
On January 30 2013 02:09 robzgod wrote: I just want to address the part where you say that we had unfulfilled promises to NuBrGNi. We told Salvor (SC2 Manager) to ask him for an estimate on his flight for Dallas (which is routine for every event), this led him to the assumption that we were covering his flight. "i just assumed i was attendin dallas cause he came up to me with the topic" direct quote from my convo with John (NuBrGNi) from skype, this whole thing is has a lot of details that simply are not true. The issue with Glon was that we were transitioning between SC2 management before Dallas and booked his flight later than usual, but everything that he was "promised" was delivered just like every other sponsored player vVv has worked with.
Well if John says else, just take a screen of the conversation and show it
Watching this saddens me. A decision has been made. One that I whole-heartedly support. Any organization has to set priorities. Doom and Rob made an unpopular decision. Good. I applaud their courage in looking long-term and being smart enough to focus on what they feel most passionate about. My view on this:
-vVv should have dropped sc2 sooner -focus on your passions. Rob and Doom are clearly passionate about LoL, shootmania and CoD -the negativity and response from the sc2 community is no suprise - the outright lies from some people who were in vVv, although sad to see, is not worth a response
So, the sc2 community now hates vVv. This is expected. Some people don't like how they handled it. This is also expected. This is the kind of call that always upsets people. Aspire left, they close.d the division. If it's important to stress that Aspire left, ok, consider it so stressed, lol.
The good news is vVv will benefit from Rob and Doom making tough calls, focusing the organization and supporting team titles like LoL, Shootmania and CoD. MICHS and FIFA also. I know they have great plans for 2013. This all will pass. The world moves on. Be kind to one another. Think before you post. Onward!
He's just so full of himself, I've hated this guy since I first heard him talk, and he just can't admit or even believe that he or vVv could do anything wrong. Kinda hilarious and also sad for those who work under him.
The dude has the IQ of a small puppy, what do you expect.
Lol, how does this degenerate mongoloid thinks it make sense to drop SC2 but keep Shootmania, CoD, MICHS and FIFA who all get nowhere close to the viewers SC2 brings in. And he dares call some of the pioneers of this industry "fucking losers".
It's ok though, now that vVv has exited the big leagues, we can go back to forgetting this team even exist
And quite literally, nothing of value was lost. Shit organization, shit dealings and "profesionalism." The community could do with less of that anyway.
On January 30 2013 02:36 fireforce7 wrote: Another team bites the dust... when will it end
Never. Every team that has ever been formed will eventually come to an end.
VVV was really more of a clan than a team, it's not even really news worthy. This is just slightly bigger than a random quartet that meets on weekends breaking up.
vVv was never anything more then a large 'clan type' organization. The only thing that really set them apart from average clan A of a bunch of friends or whatever, is they had a bit of money to throw around. I've personally been part of these organizations before and ultimately the problem they all run into is the same. You don't have 'professionals' running a team with the goal of building a product. You have hobbyists/semi-professionals running a team with the goal to have a large community.
In such a situation as above, you can have dramatic shifts in management and direction of the organization. This because the loyalty of the organization is a popularity contest for them. If your game is not popular with the community you are likely to lose support. If your game is not likely to bring in lots of new members, your game is likely to lose support. The loyalty in these groups does not lie with their 'pro' players, and never probably will.
Where vVv in my opinion went wrong is by trying to appear to be a serious team when they aren't. It leads to false expectations by the players they bring in that the players are joining a serious team environment. For the reasons above they simply are not joining that type of environment. For better or worse somewhere along the line it was clearly not made apparent by vVv to these players what type of organization they were getting involved with.
im folloowing the Lol-Scene but vVv is not at all into that game at all (or only as a funclan) How did they spend their time into Lol if even me dont know them from league ?
Viewer Discretion already has a spot not worried. But I agree not much to go on about. They pulled the plug and will slowing now fall off cause I don't think they have a LoL team to support them. Should look forward to the future of New teams coming out and ones like Clarity really making an impact on 2013.
Hilariously poor management of players and direction for the team overall, this only serves to help the poor players under vVv get out of that sinking ship. It only stinks that they are team-less, but better to be team-less than be in a team that has no interest in your game or your future.
"Starcraft 2 is shrinking" also made me chuckle a bit, but we can let them believe what they want to believe.
I've followed their podcast for a bit, and let me tell you, those guys and especially their leader, Lord Jerith IIRC, are more ready to call anyone who disagrees with them a idiot and ignore any points he might make. The "if you disagree you must be 15 years old and clueless about gaming" type thing. About as closed-minded as community managers get in terms of esports, IMO. Was this associated? Maybe, maybe not. But I hope the players find a better team.
On January 30 2013 01:37 Split Behemoth wrote: Didn't even known that team was proffessional. Bad thing to see another team disband like that even if it's a small one.
vVv Gaming has lost it's semi-pro lineup after Glon, Daisuki, RockEr and SeoHyun left.
SC2 had a community lineup (which sadly caused some bad reputation as well, with some of their members having a bad attitude due to lack of proper organization and order) and an Academy lineup, which was led by me, later on, another Academy Squad was put up by a fellow teammate; with the goal of accomodating those, who wished to pursue SC2 in more serious way than the SC2 community members. I'm sorry if there was any confusion about that.
Sadly, despite of us telling the upper vVv Management they should try some more to spread into SC2 scene & rebuild a proper A team, we were not even taken into consideration and all their visible efforts were put into LoL, especially since LordJerith has taken a position in Riot. And sadly, the latest recruit NuBrGNi ended up the way he did; with promises, which were not fulfilled; despite of fulfilling every requirement the upper management had on him and it was actually a last straw for our Academy and whole SC2 division causing us to leave. So, combined with lack of interest in the SC2 community, the game itself and that, I think it's pretty much good reason to leave.
Not to mention the notoriously bad reputation vVv Gaming had => to make you understand, it is hard to see the real problem of the organization, unless you are really working with the upper management. They are deeply sat on their own truths and logical arguments are not taken under consideration without you getting belittled and eventually being called "toxic". The moment you disagree with them, you "complain".
I just wish, that we had more chances to prove ourselves as a decent, passionate SC2 players to the SC2 community, but it just seems that the stamp of vVv's bad reputation simply stayed with us, no matter how much organization & passion there was in the Academy Team.
Hi-
I just want to address the part where you say that we had unfulfilled promises to NuBrGNi. We told Salvor (SC2 Manager) to ask him for an estimate on his flight for Dallas (which is routine for every event), this led him to the assumption that we were covering his flight. "i just assumed i was attendin dallas cause he came up to me with the topic" direct quote from my convo with John (NuBrGNi) from skype, this whole thing is has a lot of details that simply are not true. The issue with Glon was that we were transitioning between SC2 management before Dallas and booked his flight later than usual, but everything that he was "promised" was delivered just like every other sponsored player vVv has worked with.
Lying to try and cover up for your team, nice job. And no I can tell you that none of the sponsored players on vVv got what they were actually promissed, they all got screwed over. Especially titan who was conned by jerry into staying with vVv when he had a contract with complexity, jerry then took away all that was promissed to titan siting some bullshit such as "didnt perform well enough at his one mlg."
I see this as a shame for all involved. All of my experiences with vVv Members has been positive ones, (BabyToss, Glon, and Astro in particular).
Good luck to the players & members who made vVv great... and as a message to the community, please try not to be too critical of this situation, no one anywhere likes to see their dreams die. regardless of the reason or situation.
Just read the previous messages. It's so fun to see people thinking there is only USA in the esport world. Besides of that, all that times spended for discussing about a sc2-retirement from a minor team really surprise me, if you want to discuss about a true loss to esport you can talk about mTw !
Seriously, i didn't know any "actual" or ex VVV player who, at a moment, had some good result in a tournament. Talking about lack of serious from a clanwho was, obviously, not professional is jsut a waste of time no ?
If you wanted to be optimistic you could say that Even though star2 may not be doing as well as other titles. LoL is going strong and and continuing to advance esports as a whole.
Done, just done wit it. Great people make up vVv. It turned way sour after Wednesday Night Starcraft left. After that the community was ripped apart by cuts to non-sponsored members(?) and false promises. vVv hates criticism, as do we all, but we can't be afraid to call out those who do not follow though. I feel a lot of us are. Starcraft has been purging and this was another step. Good luck,
On January 30 2013 04:17 FoShao wrote: vVv? never heard of em' but now it seems obvious why. Bad team.
I didn't hear anything about them too until this, but no need to hate. There must me a lot of people being interested in vVv, otherwise i can't imagine why this news is featured. Well, good luck unknown team!
I played for vVv for a few years, I was vVvMurDeR.
I don't have too much to say about this, but I feel I should say a few things since I was the captain of the team when I was there. I had a mostly positive experience with Jerith and Doom. As I would have expected, most of the posts here are negative, so I am trying to stay positive in light of what others have said. I hope I am not making myself a target by defending them.
I had the opportunity to meet Jerry and Doom (Jordan) many times. I visited them on a few occasions and had the pleasure of staying with them in their guest room when I visited Chicago. They are intellectual, fun, and genuine people. That doesn't make them perfect.
They are both good people who try to do the right thing. At the end of the day, it is their money at stake if the organization (vVv) fails or starts to lose money, so it is unreasonable for anyone to tell them how to spend money. In my opinion, however, vVv's failure was due to lack of money to help sponsor and encourage players. Other teams were more willing to commit financially, vVv tried to spend as few pennies as possible. I am grateful for the sponsorship they gave to me, but definately acknowledge that other teams had more significant benefits and often (in my opinion) "lesser" players were getting more than I/we were.
I don't think anything done by the vVv management was malicious or intended. The SC2 division had troubles from its very inception and never materialized into what many of us had initially dreamed.
WIth all that said, I think its good that vVv is moving on from SC2.
NOTE: I am not commenting on the current drama with the Aspire team or NubrGNi. I do not know Babytoss or NubrrGNi. I am talking on my experiences which were before them. I acknowledge that many people have been negatively affected but believe, again, that it wasn't intended or malicious. vVv may not have always done 100% "right" by me but I genuinely believe they tried and intended to do so. I have no hard feelings when its all said and done.
Finally, I'd like to make a shoutout to all the Funtastic/Quantum/vVv guys I met and played with while I was there. Roar was our first manager and really did a good job at getting our first good recruits and forming the team that would form Quantum from Funtastic. We were a team of friends. I miss you guys/those times. Sugarbear eventually took over and is an awesome guy who doesn't get enough credit. I don't want to start naming players because there were so many but you know who you are.
At the end of the day, I choose to reflect on the good times. I know that everyone who was in vVv got something good out of it, even if it was brief or insignificant.
EDIT: Special shoutout to my best friend Noxie because he got insecure when I did not mention him specifically.
I guess vVv has been around in e-sports for some time now. But have they ever had strong SC2 presence? I agree that the post on the closure was bad, and they don't seem to have treated the players very nice. But how many professional full-time players did they have in SC2? Any team will close their weakest link when in trouble.
The statement on the SC2 scene just sucks. Shows how little they know.
On January 30 2013 03:31 Burns wrote: If you wanted to be optimistic you could say that Even though star2 may not be doing as well as other titles. LoL is going strong and and continuing to advance esports as a whole.
Or we are just one year ahead of LoL and their teams will be self destructing soon enough. It is only a matter of time.
On January 30 2013 04:33 MurDeRsc2 wrote: I played for vVv for a few years, I was vVvMurDeR.
I don't have too much to say about this, but I feel I should say a few things since I was the captain of the team when I was there. I had a mostly positive experience with Jerith and Doom. As I would have expected, most of the posts here are negative, so I am trying to stay positive in light of what others have said. I hope I am not making myself a target by defending them.
I had the opportunity to meet Jerry and Doom (Jordan) many times. I visited them on a few occasions and had the pleasure of staying with them in their guest room when I visited Chicago. They are intellectual, fun, and genuine people. That doesn't make them perfect.
They are both good people who try to do the right thing. At the end of the day, it is their money at stake if the organization (vVv) fails or starts to lose money, so it is unreasonable for anyone to tell them how to spend money. In my opinion, however, vVv's failure was due to lack of money to help sponsor and encourage players. Other teams were more willing to commit financially, vVv tried to spend as few pennies as possible. I am grateful for the sponsorship they gave to me, but definately acknowledge that other teams had more significant benefits and often (in my opinion) "lesser" players were getting more than I/we were.
I don't think anything done by the vVv management was malicious or intended. The SC2 division had troubles from its very inception and never materialized into what many of us had initially dreamed.
WIth all that said, I think its good that vVv is moving on from SC2.
NOTE: I am not commenting on the current drama with the Aspire team or NubrGNi. I do not know Babytoss or NubrrGNi. I am talking on my experiences which were before them. I acknowledge that many people have been negatively affected but believe, again, that it wasn't intended or malicious. vVv may not have always done 100% "right" by me but I genuinely believe they tried and intended to do so. I have no hard feelings when its all said and done.
Finally, I'd like to make a shoutout to all the Funtastic/Quantum/vVv guys I met and played with while I was there. Roar was our first manager and really did a good job at getting our first good recruits and forming the team that would form Quantum from Funtastic. We were a team of friends. I miss you guys/those times. Sugarbear eventually took over and is an awesome guy who doesn't get enough credit. I don't want to start naming players because there were so many but you know who you are.
At the end of the day, I choose to reflect on the good times. I know that everyone who was in vVv got something good out of it, even if it was brief or insignificant.
vVv Made me meet this fool. Who as stands today is still one of my best friends. Regardless of them doing anything right or wrong, Im happy that we were always a team of friends when we originally got picked up after the release of the game.
On January 30 2013 05:04 rockahn wrote: did they have an "excellent run". This might be sugarcoating it a bit, but it is sad that another team is disbanded albeit a lower tier team
They had a strong presence on the NA ladder around beta/launch and shortly after. I hadn't heard much from them recently, in fact I didn't even know they still had an sc2 division. But yeah, it's sad to see another sc2 team bite the dust. At this point it seems like it would be far easier to count how many pro teams still exist compared to how many have disbanded. The sc2 ship is sinking fast
At least LoL is still going strong in esports, and Dota 2 is making some splashes as well.
On January 29 2013 21:19 LunaSea wrote: LordJerith won't be missed.
Lol, I don't think he is going anywhere. Next time there is drama with TL he will come right back. I mean you only had to look at his twitter feed to know this team was doomed no matter what.
Last I heard Jerry got what was probably a dream job for him at Riot.
Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty confident Jerry is doing just fine.
I believe he is truly a passionate supporter of e-sports and gaming in general. I truly believe he tried his best with a model he knew; He had a specific vision and he's a stubborn guy. He wanted things done his way because of his strong vision. Personally, I don't fault him there. It was, afterall, HIS organization. Trust me, I disagreed with many things while I played for him, but I always respected him.
You guys don't know any stubborn people? Some may argue he is "stuck in his ways" or as I would put it stubborn and there's some truth in that but I know plenty of people that are stubborn and ignorant and no one that knows Jerry in any real way would not call him ignorant. The man is successful and has put his money into growing a gaming organization and through the organization has undeniably aided many gamers of all walks of life. How many of us can say that? As individuals, I mean.
Again, I have not been part of the team for a long time. I do not know what has occured in the past few months. I want to shed light on the positive, though, because there is only negative wherever I look.
Most of what I have read, however, is basically just general hate towards vVv/Jerry/"Management." The amount of anger has surprised me.
LordJerith nobody knows who you were or cares who you are. Please leave with disgrace, and u are a failure in your endeavors of the present. You said, "who cares what you did 10 years ago" which is exactly how i feel about your rant about your resume of so called "accomplishments" lol you are joke as a human being
I really don't understand the business decision of going to an already saturated game such as LoL. Yeah sure, you could argue that they have a massive playerbase, and eyes on a stream, but my point is that it's so damn hard now to get to a point where your new team would be anywhere near competitive for any titles or tournaments that it's not really that viable for a new team to really make a splash or make a return on the investment for their players.
What's even worse about this decision is that they have to pay MORE players to travel to events to do equally as bad as their players did in SC2 (no offense to the vVv guys who participated in SC2, i'm just going on the results). So technically, they're paying MORE money out, to fly a team of guys (5 + any backroom guys needed to support the players) to do arguably equal or worse in terms of results and exposure for the team and their sponsors, and then fuck over their SC2 players because LoL seems a better choice for their so called management.
I just don't understand how this could be in any way a better investment for a team that's probably not swimming in money or has massive backers or thousands of fans.
SC2 is cheaper and still very very viable for any up and coming teams if you do the right things. You can't just put a team out and expect them to just win tournaments nowadays for SC2. It's matured, so you need to mature as management and be smart about your investments, whether it be in random free-agent Koreans, or a good up-and-comer from NA sevrer (everyone loves a Scarlett story when it comes to tournaments).
Meh, they made their mind up, and burned some bridges along with it. I don't expect many people here or on reddit to give them much forgiveness if they ever come back to SC2 after this.
vVv didn't close their SC2 team simply because they were "bad." People need to start thinking that maybe something drastic needs to happen to this scene or SC2 will be just as niche as BW was.
On January 30 2013 05:44 MurDeRsc2 wrote: Last I heard Jerry got what was probably a dream job for him at Riot.
Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty confident Jerry is doing just fine.
I believe he is truly a passionate supporter of e-sports and gaming in general. I truly believe he tried his best with a model he knew; He had a specific vision and he's a stubborn guy. He wanted things done his way because of his strong vision. Personally, I don't fault him there. It was, afterall, HIS organization. Trust me, I disagreed with many things while I played for him, but I always respected him.
You guys don't know any stubborn people? Some may argue he is "stuck in his ways" or as I would put it stubborn and there's some truth in that but I know plenty of people that are stubborn and ignorant and no one that knows Jerry in any real way would not call him ignorant. The man is successful and has put his money into growing a gaming organization and through the organization has undeniably aided many gamers of all walks of life. How many of us can say that? As individuals, I mean.
Again, I have not been part of the team for a long time. I do not know what has occured in the past few months. I want to shed light on the positive, though, because there is only negative wherever I look.
Most of what I have read, however, is basically just general hate towards vVv/Jerry/"Management." The amount of anger has surprised me.
It really shouldn't. I know most of the vVv players hated jerith and vVv in general hence why most left. I know even before I had left other players didn't like it they just didn't leave like I did. It's good you didn't have as negative view from them but I knew the guy was an idiot hence why i left and the other people who keep saying they wish they had left sooner.
They were awful for sc2 and didn't do much at all. I do miss the days though when we were all a team still wish we hadn't joined vVv though :D
I still don't think you can blame this one on their "focus on LoL". I looked into it and their squad is mediocre at best, you can't build a team around it. There's no hope for the vVv LoL squad to achieve anything meaningful. I'm (purely speculating) thinking this is an effect of the SteelSeries budget shifts and they're just too proud to admit there's next to no sponsor income and they depend on private capital. It just adds up. We'll probably never know.
Jerry's posts seems to contradict some of the player's statements. They insist that they left, which I can totally see from their perspective. It really makes it hard for me to take him seriously and professionally when he makes a post such as this..
Watching this saddens me. A decision has been made. One that I whole-heartedly support. Any organization has to set priorities. Doom and Rob made an unpopular decision. Good. I applaud their courage in looking long-term and being smart enough to focus on what they feel most passionate about. My view on this:
-vVv should have dropped sc2 sooner -focus on your passions. Rob and Doom are clearly passionate about LoL, shootmania and CoD -the negativity and response from the sc2 community is no suprise - the outright lies from some people who were in vVv, although sad to see, is not worth a response
So, the sc2 community now hates vVv. This is expected. Some people don't like how they handled it. This is also expected. This is the kind of call that always upsets people. Aspire left, they close.d the division. If it's important to stress that Aspire left, ok, consider it so stressed, lol.
The good news is vVv will benefit from Rob and Doom making tough calls, focusing the organization and supporting team titles like LoL, Shootmania and CoD. MICHS and FIFA also. I know they have great plans for 2013. This all will pass. The world moves on. Be kind to one another. Think before you post. Onward!
On January 30 2013 03:51 Spectralx wrote: I have been quite untill now but I would also back up the fact vVv is all about it's self. I left vVv Because i was a reason to join. Not saying im big stuff but MANY vVv members, SonTran being one, joined because them saw me and thought "if they support a disabled gamer,they must be pretty diverse." Wrong. vVv Has done nothing but hook me up with the amazing staff at SteelSeries who where amazing and helped and wanted to help me find better gear. I saw the abuse of a community feeding them hope of doing something bigger then themselves for the community. It was a facade.
Yes Spectral, I did join vVv because we are great friends and I figured that becoming teammates would be awesome, but when you left, I didn't know wether to go as well, or stay with BabyToss and the academy
On January 30 2013 08:44 Sovano wrote: Jerry's posts seems to contradict some of the player's statements. They insist that they left, which I can totally see from their perspective. It really makes it hard for me to take him seriously and professionally when he makes a post such as this..
Watching this saddens me. A decision has been made. One that I whole-heartedly support. Any organization has to set priorities. Doom and Rob made an unpopular decision. Good. I applaud their courage in looking long-term and being smart enough to focus on what they feel most passionate about. My view on this:
-vVv should have dropped sc2 sooner -focus on your passions. Rob and Doom are clearly passionate about LoL, shootmania and CoD -the negativity and response from the sc2 community is no suprise - the outright lies from some people who were in vVv, although sad to see, is not worth a response
So, the sc2 community now hates vVv. This is expected. Some people don't like how they handled it. This is also expected. This is the kind of call that always upsets people. Aspire left, they close.d the division. If it's important to stress that Aspire left, ok, consider it so stressed, lol.
The good news is vVv will benefit from Rob and Doom making tough calls, focusing the organization and supporting team titles like LoL, Shootmania and CoD. MICHS and FIFA also. I know they have great plans for 2013. This all will pass. The world moves on. Be kind to one another. Think before you post. Onward!
Is it worth it for the time it takes for me to go find the countless skype logs/emails outlining the "Outright Lies" Jerry speaks of? I'm not sure... maybe this weekend - really busy with school at the moment. However, I might not even have to, as enough people have come out ALL SAYING THE SAME THING that I think people are convinced. Lol that administration...
This is what the queen patch has done to sc2. Good job. Not surprised it's shrinking. As a terran, I've not watched a single game since it had become evident the queen patch had removed the game from sc2.
On January 30 2013 10:05 HHNitro wrote: This is what the queen patch has done to sc2. Good job. Not surprised it's shrinking. As a terran, I've not watched a single game since it had become evident the queen patch had removed the game from sc2.
Trying to figure out how queen patch has to do with vVv shutting down sc2 division LOL.
I spent about a year straight looking for a decent clan. Eventually I realized they were all shit and destined to disband in short time, and that they were all a waste of time. Over and over my assessment is confirmed.
The only clans worth joining are pro clans. Everything else is a flash in the pan.
On January 30 2013 10:09 Actinium_ wrote: lots of sc2 teams seem to be shutting down atm..
and a lot seem to be opening too, Axiom, Azubu, Clarity. Its the nature of business. vVv had the writing on the wall for a long time. They never really really hit the sc2 scene. They would have some talented players (Glon and others), but lets be real about what vVv was in sc2. A very small clan.
On January 30 2013 10:33 ke_ivan wrote: Actually, I believe a higher percentage of people on Twitch watch SC2 than LoL... 54% to 50% I believe just saying...
At any given time, day or night, LoL is over triple sc2's viewer count. 1 TSM members generally gains 20k + viewers on a daily basis. The most popular sc2 players in the entire world don't even get close to that amount of viewers.
Right now there are 66k viewers for LoL, 15k for sc2. And that's WITH IPTL premier going on, there aren't any events for LoL (which regularly gather over 150k viewers).
I was on vVv up until the end (vVvInfested) and they completly screwed us over. They announced a sponsorship for one of the players, literally a month later, revoked it. We all left and formed our own team.
On January 29 2013 22:05 RodrigoX wrote: Their departing statement seemed really disrespectful and it's even worse that it's being shown that not only are they lying about the reasons for closing the sc2 division but also mis=-treated players and then on top of all that their manager is a dirtbag. Well time to boycott vvv gaming in the continued fight against asshole business men. I just hope no one good gets caught in the cross fire or get's anything unjust ala destiny.
I hate to be the disrespective, capitalist "dickhole" around here guys...but that is life. As a 30 year old in the finance world, this is reality. Is it unfair? Can it be disrepectful? Hell yes. But it comes down to money and I honestly think anyone who thinks they have a career long term (meaning 5-10+) years in the gaming world should have a plan. Look at InControl. He is obviously not the best gamer in EG but he markets himself, has a English degree, and can easily transition out of being a player into casting (EG or no EG). There are too many people bashing vVv when it is a business decision; weather or not you think it was tactful is a different conversation - talk to their PR/Intercompany relations manager. But playing video games for a living is high level risk; many should learn to acknowledge that fact.
On January 29 2013 22:05 RodrigoX wrote: Their departing statement seemed really disrespectful and it's even worse that it's being shown that not only are they lying about the reasons for closing the sc2 division but also mis=-treated players and then on top of all that their manager is a dirtbag. Well time to boycott vvv gaming in the continued fight against asshole business men. I just hope no one good gets caught in the cross fire or get's anything unjust ala destiny.
I hate to be the disrespective, capitalist "dickhole" around here guys...but that is life. As a 30 year old in the finance world, this is reality. Is it fair? Can it be disrepectful? Hell yes. But it comes down to money and I honestly think anyone who thinks they have a career long term (meaning 5-10+) years in the gaming world should have a plan. Look at InControl. He is obviously not the best gamer in EG but he markets himself, has a English degree, and can easily transition out of being a player into casting (EG or no EG). There are too many people bashing vVv when it is a business decision; weather or not you think it was tactful is a different conversation - talk to their PR/Intercompany relations manager. But playing video games for a living is high level risk; many should learn to acknowledge that fact.
Whilst I agree that it is a business decision that vVv has done this, but I think a lot of people (including the players of vVv) are criticising the actual business decisions. It doesn't even matter that it's "life" as you say. Contradicting business decisions and orphaned areas of business are always a heated topic for the people who are directly affected by them.
Why would they go ahead and get a player on their so called "sponsored" team, and then drop the entire SC2 division no longer than a month later? That's not "life". That's ridiculous and idiotic business management.
For once, the TL and reddit community are complaining at the RIGHT thing, and that is that stupid business decisions that only fuck over the players is BAD and should be heavily criticised. Not only that, but then the vVv manager comes out and burns even more bridges by saying (to paraphrase) "sc2 is no good. we should have closed our division earlier".
That's not what good management looks like. That's not even "life". I don't even know ANY business that would close a division of their business and then tell their soon to be redundant employees that they should have been out of a job sooner.
On January 29 2013 22:05 RodrigoX wrote: Their departing statement seemed really disrespectful and it's even worse that it's being shown that not only are they lying about the reasons for closing the sc2 division but also mis=-treated players and then on top of all that their manager is a dirtbag. Well time to boycott vvv gaming in the continued fight against asshole business men. I just hope no one good gets caught in the cross fire or get's anything unjust ala destiny.
I hate to be the disrespective, capitalist "dickhole" around here guys...but that is life. As a 30 year old in the finance world, this is reality. Is it fair? Can it be disrepectful? Hell yes. But it comes down to money and I honestly think anyone who thinks they have a career long term (meaning 5-10+) years in the gaming world should have a plan. Look at InControl. He is obviously not the best gamer in EG but he markets himself, has a English degree, and can easily transition out of being a player into casting (EG or no EG). There are too many people bashing vVv when it is a business decision; weather or not you think it was tactful is a different conversation - talk to their PR/Intercompany relations manager. But playing video games for a living is high level risk; many should learn to acknowledge that fact.
Whilst I agree that it is a business decision that vVv has done this, but I think a lot of people (including the players of vVv) are criticising the actual business decisions. It doesn't even matter that it's "life" as you say. Contradicting business decisions and orphaned areas of business are always a heated topic for the people who are directly affected by them.
Why would they go ahead and get a player on their so called "sponsored" team, and then drop the entire SC2 division no longer than a month later? That's not "life". That's ridiculous and idiotic business management.
For once, the TL and reddit community are complaining at the RIGHT thing, and that is that stupid business decisions that only fuck over the players is BAD and should be heavily criticised. Not only that, but then the vVv manager comes out and burns even more bridges by saying (to paraphrase) "sc2 is no good. we should have closed our division earlier".
That's not what good management looks like. That's not even "life". I don't even know ANY business that would close a division of their business and then tell their soon to be redundant employees that they should have been out of a job sooner.
I think that's an issue of communication though. Unless I'm mistaken the person running the sc2 team and then the guy overseeing everything are two separate people. You can have your sc2 manager pick a player up while being left in the dark about the soon-to-be dismantled team. I'm not saying this is what happened but nobody has really come forward and explained it very well. Either way goodbye vVv I knew Treva and several of the people he went to high school with. Awesome group of guys.
On January 29 2013 22:05 RodrigoX wrote: Their departing statement seemed really disrespectful and it's even worse that it's being shown that not only are they lying about the reasons for closing the sc2 division but also mis=-treated players and then on top of all that their manager is a dirtbag. Well time to boycott vvv gaming in the continued fight against asshole business men. I just hope no one good gets caught in the cross fire or get's anything unjust ala destiny.
I hate to be the disrespective, capitalist "dickhole" around here guys...but that is life. As a 30 year old in the finance world, this is reality. Is it fair? Can it be disrepectful? Hell yes. But it comes down to money and I honestly think anyone who thinks they have a career long term (meaning 5-10+) years in the gaming world should have a plan. Look at InControl. He is obviously not the best gamer in EG but he markets himself, has a English degree, and can easily transition out of being a player into casting (EG or no EG). There are too many people bashing vVv when it is a business decision; weather or not you think it was tactful is a different conversation - talk to their PR/Intercompany relations manager. But playing video games for a living is high level risk; many should learn to acknowledge that fact.
Whilst I agree that it is a business decision that vVv has done this, but I think a lot of people (including the players of vVv) are criticising the actual business decisions. It doesn't even matter that it's "life" as you say. Contradicting business decisions and orphaned areas of business are always a heated topic for the people who are directly affected by them.
Why would they go ahead and get a player on their so called "sponsored" team, and then drop the entire SC2 division no longer than a month later? That's not "life". That's ridiculous and idiotic business management.
For once, the TL and reddit community are complaining at the RIGHT thing, and that is that stupid business decisions that only fuck over the players is BAD and should be heavily criticised. Not only that, but then the vVv manager comes out and burns even more bridges by saying (to paraphrase) "sc2 is no good. we should have closed our division earlier".
That's not what good management looks like. That's not even "life". I don't even know ANY business that would close a division of their business and then tell their soon to be redundant employees that they should have been out of a job sooner.
I think that's an issue of communication though. Unless I'm mistaken the person running the sc2 team and then the guy overseeing everything are two separate people. You can have your sc2 manager pick a player up while being left in the dark about the soon-to-be dismantled team. I'm not saying this is what happened but nobody has really come forward and explained it very well. Either way goodbye vVv I knew Treva and several of the people he went to high school with. Awesome group of guys.
Even if you were to say that all these promises are just rumors and aren't actually true. Why would they not make a statement like every well run team and simply leave it at "vVv and Sc2 division mutually part ways"? The team members seemed to be willing to not complain publicly about their issues with the management but then vVv apparently decided that they didn't care if they pissed the players off or not. If the case was that vVv was totally in the right , they never lied about anything, why would they make statements that seem to intentionally burn bridges? We've seen teams in the past have players that clearly deserved to be kicked for their actions still make statements that completely ignore any drama to avoid looking like the bad guy.The statements in themselves regardless of whether allegations are true or not suggest that the management of the team has no idea what they are doing. The worst part of this is really that now they can continue pulling this shit in a bunch of other games.
It is really eye-opening when someone whose interests are not invested in just the company speaks out with, what often can be, the truth. Thanks for the post! Great read!
Watching this saddens me. A decision has been made. One that I whole-heartedly support. Any organization has to set priorities. Doom and Rob made an unpopular decision. Good. I applaud their courage in looking long-term and being smart enough to focus on what they feel most passionate about. My view on this:
-vVv should have dropped sc2 sooner -focus on your passions. Rob and Doom are clearly passionate about LoL, shootmania and CoD -the negativity and response from the sc2 community is no suprise - the outright lies from some people who were in vVv, although sad to see, is not worth a response
So, the sc2 community now hates vVv. This is expected. Some people don't like how they handled it. This is also expected. This is the kind of call that always upsets people. Aspire left, they close.d the division. If it's important to stress that Aspire left, ok, consider it so stressed, lol.
The good news is vVv will benefit from Rob and Doom making tough calls, focusing the organization and supporting team titles like LoL, Shootmania and CoD. MICHS and FIFA also. I know they have great plans for 2013. This all will pass. The world moves on. Be kind to one another. Think before you post. Onward!
He's just so full of himself, I've hated this guy since I first heard him talk, and he just can't admit or even believe that he or vVv could do anything wrong. Kinda hilarious and also sad for those who work under him.
Also, I want to note - he notes that Aspire left, but praises his staff for making the tough call? Was it a tough call really to close a division that no longer had any players?
LOL. So... The SC2 community produces mindless hate without a reason, just what he would expect. The whole SC2 division comes up with a very deliberate lie to blame vVv for some reason, again, just what he would expect. Wait... What LOL?? Since when does that happen? Every time I see someone leaving a team, it's either "leaving on good terms, best of luck", "no comment" or timid comments about things that everybody would be upset about. The fact that he comes up with shitty obvious lies to obfuscate the truth is so pathetic that I'm puzzled by the fact that it doesn't really surprise me.
On January 30 2013 02:04 pb.fcnz wrote: MLG was nothing until SC2...
While MLG was squandering venture capital giving emotional payouts (ie Sundance <3's Halo and ran MLG at a loss for years paying for players in a game that brought in no money), CS 1.6 and Q3 were featured in 95% of FPS tournaments and handing out 20000000000x more cash than MLG could dream of at the time.
While people like Jerith might not like history lessons, because they might contradict their "facts" and his twisted vision of "esports", back when MLG focused on consoles, CPL, WCG, ESWC, WEG, were the only names that mattered in FPS.
And then for a good laugh you'd youtube a clip of some 14 year old trying pathetically to aim with a joystick taking like 3 seconds to get his xhair on someone in halo or some shitty rainbow six XBOX title on MLG.
Sure, more people game on consoles than on pc's at the moment, but more people also believe in the bible than there are atheists. Does that excuse them for being dumb? Not in my opinion.
You are wrong on this on so many levels. MLG has "squandered" a ton of money on SC2 in the past year. A prime example are the 3(the first one was small in scale) arena events. Right now RT airfare(for korea) booking a month in advance is going for 1039$. Round that down and say they flew in 25 players from overseas plus the 7 others you are looking at 30-32k on flights. Add on room and food for at the very least 32 players in NYC another 10k. Add on the prize pool of 27k. So right here you are at 67-69k and then you also have personalities such as Tastosis, Wheat, Simpson casting the event. Lets pretend they each get paid 5k for their services. 87-89k on this event alone. And this is a very very low estimate.
Their only source of revenue on this event was advertisement money and the money from PPV. Which if you recall had massive pitchforks raised as there was no "free stream" option.
At the end of the day there are really great gaming teams/organizations out there who have niche areas of expertise. Some like EG and Complexity can do well in various markets of esports simultaneously and others such as vVv can not. Yea you might not like the management of some of the teams but at least they are attempting to branch out and try something new.
seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
I honestly didnt even know vVv was a serious pro team with sponsors and stuff. I thought it was like a amateur clan filled with some good NA players. Sad to hear the management quit on them.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Lol the only two I knew of were Time and Murder. Yep, old school.
On January 29 2013 22:05 RodrigoX wrote: Their departing statement seemed really disrespectful and it's even worse that it's being shown that not only are they lying about the reasons for closing the sc2 division but also mis=-treated players and then on top of all that their manager is a dirtbag. Well time to boycott vvv gaming in the continued fight against asshole business men. I just hope no one good gets caught in the cross fire or get's anything unjust ala destiny.
I hate to be the disrespective, capitalist "dickhole" around here guys...but that is life. As a 30 year old in the finance world, this is reality. Is it unfair? Can it be disrepectful? Hell yes. But it comes down to money and I honestly think anyone who thinks they have a career long term (meaning 5-10+) years in the gaming world should have a plan. Look at InControl. He is obviously not the best gamer in EG but he markets himself, has a English degree, and can easily transition out of being a player into casting (EG or no EG). There are too many people bashing vVv when it is a business decision; weather or not you think it was tactful is a different conversation - talk to their PR/Intercompany relations manager. But playing video games for a living is high level risk; many should learn to acknowledge that fact.
OK time to dispel things once and for all. NO ONE is disputing that vVv dropped their SC2 division - TBH, they aren't important in SC2 in terms of investment. At all.
What IS being bashed is the following: -Mistreatment of players -Lying to sponsored players, then covering up -Lying to Aspire people about coordinating a thread about leaving. Aspire (vVv's old academy) LEFT, they did NOT get "released." (A similar thing happened to me. I LEFT vVv gaming, I did not "graduate.") -Threatening players that may potentially speak out against all of this
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Why do you feel the need to post this here? I'm no fan of vVv and yea, most people probably can't name anyone on their team... but this just makes you look petty...
I've got to agree with CatZ. This doesn't deserve to be featured next to other articles that a lot of people actually care about. This thread would barely get noticed if not for the drama surrounding it.
Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
Shouldn't we be happy that the bar was lowered then? When we signed Sting, even though he was a TSL4 semifinalist, it didn't make the cut either. Personally I think Minigun's news should've made the cut. I'd rather see a few items I'm not that interested about than see important ones like mini/sting get missed. I was really thankful for their recent choices and would hate for them to get scolded for being more proactive and accepting. But this isn't really the place to discuss policy I imagine.
If you see this as a developing story, first vVv drops their pro roster recently and now their academy team chooses to leave, it's still meaningful.
Ah, I should mention, I orchestrated the morrow announcement the other week and that was picked up, so that's one of the recent choices I'm hinting at and blatantly biased about.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
So because there was only 1 real competitive player on the roster at the time, this news should just be forgotten and teams can continue to screw over players while most people don't even know that it's going on? Now I know most people here know about vVv and their history so maybe this particular news is not that important but in general I think news like this should be featured. vVv is one of the more known brands in the NA scene and it's best for the SC2 scene as a whole for people to know about problems such as this so upcoming players don't make the same mistake and waste their time with them. Granted I was also apart of this Aspire team that decided to leave so maybe I'm slightly biased here but IMO news of any team that's some what of a known brand screwing over players needs to be featured. Think about all upcoming players, maybe 1-2 years down the line they could be at a #1 GM level and placing well in tournaments but maybe they never got there because smaller teams they joined while they were still upcoming kept screwing them over and over again, they didn't provide the resources they promised and wasted their time while passing up on other team offers that may have been more helpful. That's why news like this should be featured.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
So because there was only 1 real competitive player on the roster at the time, this news should just be forgotten and teams can continue to screw over players while most people don't even know that it's going on? Now I know most people here know about vVv and their history so maybe this particular news is not that important but in general I think news like this should be featured. vVv is one of the more known brands in the NA scene and it's best for the SC2 scene as a whole for people to know about problems such as this so upcoming players don't make the same mistake and waste their time with them. Granted I was also apart of this Aspire team that decided to leave so maybe I'm slightly biased here but IMO news of any team that's some what of a known brand screwing over players needs to be featured. Think about all upcoming players, maybe 1-2 years down the line they could be at a #1 GM level and placing well in tournaments but maybe they never got there because smaller teams they joined while they were still upcoming kept screwing them over and over again, they didn't provide the resources they promised and wasted their time while passing up on other team offers that may have been more helpful. That's why news like this should be featured.
I'd say he hardly means it should be forgotten. If I noticed it under starcraft 2 general I'd still have read it and I'm sure others with me. We're still developing esports and cautionary tales are important, we need to cut down incompetence without mercy. On the other hand, traditionally TL is very conservative about what they consider community news, so looking back there's probably several stories that are even more worthwhile. That's all, I wouldn't read too much into it. Everyone got the message about vVv I'm sure.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
So because there was only 1 real competitive player on the roster at the time, this news should just be forgotten and teams can continue to screw over players while most people don't even know that it's going on? Now I know most people here know about vVv and their history so maybe this particular news is not that important but in general I think news like this should be featured. vVv is one of the more known brands in the NA scene and it's best for the SC2 scene as a whole for people to know about problems such as this so upcoming players don't make the same mistake and waste their time with them. Granted I was also apart of this Aspire team that decided to leave so maybe I'm slightly biased here but IMO news of any team that's some what of a known brand screwing over players needs to be featured. Think about all upcoming players, maybe 1-2 years down the line they could be at a #1 GM level and placing well in tournaments but maybe they never got there because smaller teams they joined while they were still upcoming kept screwing them over and over again, they didn't provide the resources they promised and wasted their time while passing up on other team offers that may have been more helpful. That's why news like this should be featured.
I'd say he hardly means it should be forgotten. If I noticed it under starcraft 2 general I'd still have read it and I'm sure others with me. We're still developing esports and cautionary tales are important, we need to cut down incompetence without mercy. On the other hand, traditionally TL is very conservative about what they consider community news, so looking back there's probably several stories that are even more worthwhile. That's all, I wouldn't read too much into it. Everyone got the message about vVv I'm sure.
No but what he's trying to say is "well there weren't any known players on the team so this doesn't really matter" when it should matter. Now I will agree that there are more stories worth getting community news, I understand that completely. But in any instance of a known team screwing over players, I think that should be community news so the word can spread as far as it can.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
So because there was only 1 real competitive player on the roster at the time, this news should just be forgotten and teams can continue to screw over players while most people don't even know that it's going on? Now I know most people here know about vVv and their history so maybe this particular news is not that important but in general I think news like this should be featured. vVv is one of the more known brands in the NA scene and it's best for the SC2 scene as a whole for people to know about problems such as this so upcoming players don't make the same mistake and waste their time with them. Granted I was also apart of this Aspire team that decided to leave so maybe I'm slightly biased here but IMO news of any team that's some what of a known brand screwing over players needs to be featured. Think about all upcoming players, maybe 1-2 years down the line they could be at a #1 GM level and placing well in tournaments but maybe they never got there because smaller teams they joined while they were still upcoming kept screwing them over and over again, they didn't provide the resources they promised and wasted their time while passing up on other team offers that may have been more helpful. That's why news like this should be featured.
I'd say he hardly means it should be forgotten. If I noticed it under starcraft 2 general I'd still have read it and I'm sure others with me. We're still developing esports and cautionary tales are important, we need to cut down incompetence without mercy. On the other hand, traditionally TL is very conservative about what they consider community news, so looking back there's probably several stories that are even more worthwhile. That's all, I wouldn't read too much into it. Everyone got the message about vVv I'm sure.
No but what he's trying to say is "well there weren't any known players on the team so this doesn't really matter" when it should matter. Now I will agree that there are more stories worth getting community news, I understand that completely. But in any instance of a known team screwing over players, I think that should be community news so the word can spread as far as it can.
My point is that there's a large gap between "this doesn't really matter" and his idea of "featured as community news-worthy". No one's dismissing it as unimportant. Well, actually, several people were, but they don't know any better. I'm with you on that it should've been community news, but can fully understand looking back at some other big events that it doesn't fit his idea of what normally goes up there.
Regardless, that's TL policy, 1. none of our business, 2. this isn't the place to discuss it.
It was already semi-known, that vVv Gaming's management wasn't putting too much effort into SC2. There were rumours of them not fulfilling their part of the bargain with their former sponsored lineup. And while I agree, that in the grand scale of things, vVv Gaming and us, no matter how passionate we are about StarCraft 2 & climbing our way to the upper heights, we are insignificant. However, the players do not come out of nowhere. Many players climb their way on the top, trying to join smaller teams like vVv Gaming. It's for the best of every aspiring player to know, what to look out for. Nothing worse than to put time and effort into a team, to find out that deep down, there's something really rotten about them.
I can't blame vVv Gaming for shifting focus to other game, if that is where the main passion of the management is, but their practices of stirring the truth, so those who leave get marked as "bad apples" and "toxic" people is what should get a red flag.
so much drama for no reason. the Aspire program (and the majority of good players) left vVv. vVv doesn't want to admit it was dumped, and start praising Rob for making "tough buisness calls". Kind of hard to keep a Sc2 division open without any palyers, and sounds like they didn't really have an interest in keeping it open anyway. But let it go at that. At least they were paying you (cougho3wndcough)
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT.
Not to be a complete prick, it's no secret that I have a crush on EU sc2 far more than KR or US, but the rosters of vVv and ROOT really are miles apart. Besides, at no point does that have anything to do with it. ROOT is actually doing a lot of things right vVv isn't, which is why they're more successful. ROOT invests in their roster. vVv (from all the posts) surely seems to have no commitment to any of the players on their team (past and present), nor intent to support them.
There's a lot of threads that get high posts or views, doesn't mean they're of value. Neither does your targeting ROOT just because that's his team. They're fallacies.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT.
You are saying someone is delusional and explaining how ROOT isn't that far above vVv's roster? Wow. Of course this thread has more replies than Yugioh's because this community is drawn to drama.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT.
Not to be a complete prick, it's no secret that I have a crush on EU sc2 far more than KR or US, but the rosters of vVv and ROOT really are miles apart. Besides, at no point does that have anything to do with it. ROOT is actually doing a lot of things right vVv isn't, which is why they're more successful. ROOT invests in their roster. vVv (from all the posts) surely seems to have no commitment to any of the players on their team (past and present), nor intent to support them.
There's a lot of threads that get high posts or views, doesn't mean they're of value. Neither does your targeting ROOT just because that's his team. They're fallacies.
I really don't watch SC2 anymore and I only watched GSL, SPL and some of the bigger events like IPL, TSL and MLG. Both ROOT and vVv were pretty obscure to me, as I really only knew ROOT players from the very early stages of SC2 when they used to see success. I'm gonna be perfectly frank when I say this but ROOT just seems like a team that players go to if they aren't ready to retire yet, that's just my impression. Like I originally said, it seems pretty petty to me to try and make large distinctions between teams that arent even competing in Korea.
On January 31 2013 23:34 SupLilSon wrote: vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT.
While I appreciate what you are trying to do - and while vVv Gaming's old roster (RockEr, Glon, SeoHyun, Daisuki) could be of comparable strength of ROOT, the roster (which consists Academy players mostly) we have now comes nowhere close. That's a strict fact.
Alas, I believe the message of this thread was not to highlight the players, but some of the practices of vVv Gaming as an organization and also, to separate ourselves from them; as we no longer want to have a bad reputation because of past actions of our former organization + we want to point out mistakes, which any aspiring player might run into, when joining a smaller organization.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
vVv may have had a very weak roster but where do you rate yours then?! This thread has generated more replies than the one for YuGiOh joining ROOT because it's actually more interesting... You might want to reevaluate your own team before you get these delusions of grandeur and start acting like you are the next coming of EG or TL in North America. In my eyes as a spectator who really only watched Korean SC2, ROOT and vVv weren't too far apart in caliber. vVv's management obviously did a much poorer job, but it seems pretty stupid to me for you to try and set your roster's skills far above theirs. Minigun may have hit #1 GM NA (but so did RuFF, shows you how hard that is) but he never competes, and neither does most of ROOT.
Not to be a complete prick, it's no secret that I have a crush on EU sc2 far more than KR or US, but the rosters of vVv and ROOT really are miles apart. Besides, at no point does that have anything to do with it. ROOT is actually doing a lot of things right vVv isn't, which is why they're more successful. ROOT invests in their roster. vVv (from all the posts) surely seems to have no commitment to any of the players on their team (past and present), nor intent to support them.
There's a lot of threads that get high posts or views, doesn't mean they're of value. Neither does your targeting ROOT just because that's his team. They're fallacies.
I really don't watch SC2 anymore and I only watched GSL, SPL and some of the bigger events like IPL, TSL and MLG. Both ROOT and vVv were pretty obscure to me, as I really only knew ROOT players from the very early stages of SC2 when they used to see success. I'm gonna be perfectly frank when I say this but ROOT just seems like a team that players go to if they aren't ready to retire yet, that's just my impression. Like I originally said, it seems pretty petty to me to try and make large distinctions between teams that arent even competing in Korea.
I'd say it's really more the opposite, a lot of talent starts at ROOT. They don't have the deep pockets some others have, but they do really well for themselves. There's plenty competition outside of Korea too thankfully.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
I remember Time and Murder, they left awhile ago though. To be fair i made the switch to dota2 a year ago and havnt been following the scene since.
vVv was a lot of fun. But as far as trying to go professional? Don't think that was really ever a actual thought. I left because after MLG i noticed vVv was basically just a big group of friends that wanted to manage a esports team. So each friend managed a division in games that competed. Totally fine. Do what you do. I wanted something more serious and realized i might be wasting my time here. (Lots of time i was team coach and captain. )
Don't take any of it back though. Met some great great people. Helped me improve as a player and coach. And still have a bunch of friends/teammates that i talk to regularly on battle net. And as far as catz saying anything negative. Why not just let actions speak for words. Has minigun won anything? Is he really worth arguing that hes more important then a whole gaming community? imo your kinda lame to me now lol. Be a boss. Not a complainer.
On February 01 2013 06:23 QxGRockEr wrote: vVv was a lot of fun. But as far as trying to go professional? Don't think that was really ever a actual thought. I left because after MLG i noticed vVv was basically just a big group of friends that wanted to manage a esports team. So each friend managed a division in games that competed. Totally fine. Do what you do. I wanted something more serious and realized i might be wasting my time here. (Lots of time i was team coach and captain. )
Don't take any of it back though. Met some great great people. Helped me improve as a player and coach. And still have a bunch of friends/teammates that i talk to regularly on battle net. And as far as catz saying anything negative. Why not just let actions speak for words. Has minigun won anything? Is he really worth arguing that hes more important then a whole gaming community? imo your kinda lame to me now lol. Be a boss. Not a complainer.
On January 31 2013 10:50 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah I agree why would a starcraft news site post the announcement of the closing of a team that has been around for a while as " community news".
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
On January 31 2013 03:36 ROOTCatZ wrote: seriously why is this under featured news? No offense to the squad's dedication but vVv doesn't deserve any spotlight and this is hardly relevant to most people, I'd be surprised if half the people who have to read this can name one vVv player. (RuFF and Glon left a while ago in case you were thinking one of those two)
Its under "community news" not "featured news".
that's what I ment, TL written/edited articles get featured news, rest can only get community news. and thereason it shouldn't be under community news is because there are plenty of more important and relevant news that aren't.
This isn't to say that the bar should be set super high or anything, don't get me wrong, but vVv didn't have A SINGLE pro player, i'd dare say not a single GrandMaster player... so this is unprecedented. When Minigun, a Popular streamer with a large following, #1 GM on NA switched from coL to ROOT, two of the largest teams in terms of following and fanbase, it was NOT on commmunity news. I didn't care too much because its not gigantic news, to a certain degree it was expected and Minigun's kind of always probably been percieved like more ROOT than coL. But regardless, that is a streamer that peaks at 1500 viewers, and is arguably the best protoss in NA, hitting #1 multiple times a season. Which brings me back to my question, name one vVv player, let alone progamer or even high masters/competitive.
I hate vvv but you are incorrect.
Time and murder were both pro players and both went to major events. Murder for example qualified for IEM and placed 4'th (this was the first NA IEM). He was GM when GM was out so was Time. Murder didn't last long cause he quit playing after iem and time well he joined iS after dominating in clan wars and stuff with vVv for like a year and then eventually quit as well.
I have a lot of positive things to say about vVv Gaming. Ive been so busy with work I haven't even had a chance to write a proper statement. vVv Gaming has fulfilled so many promises.
Despite what people believed we had three different versions of our team that were competing at the top level. We had a few top 48 MLG Appearances and fallen short of champ bracket 1 game quite a few times. To me, this is an incredible feat for a semi-professional team. We all had jobs, school, and other things. We didnt have salaries, or heavy sponsorship, but every single SC2 player on vVv gaming started from the bottom and worked their way up.
vVv Gaming has sponsored much more than a SC2 division. And its no secret that is mostly funded by the owner himself.
Let me be the first to say to you that vVv Gaming has made decisions that really pissed me off. However, these decisions to cut sponsors, cut players, cut other things have all been due to tight money micromanagement. vVv Gaming cant afford to send 10+ players to each event in hopes to break out in the champ bracket. Lord Jerith might not be very liked by our community, but the man is incredibly smart and totally no afraid to stir the pot. He didnt get where he is today, wasting money, and time. The man has even dropped me from the sponsored team before, and what did I do? Sure I felt like it was undeserved, but it motivated me, and they gave me another chance. We've had arguments. This guy isnt afraid to hurt my feelings, and im not afraid to hurt is. But the good thing about him and I is that people like us dont hold grudges, and I'm sure if you had continued beef with LJ that he would hear you out to possibly figure it out as men.
If popularity was such an important issue, vVv Gaming wouldn't of dropped two different MLG Champions in MK9, as well as the rest of the successful fighting division. One of the most successful for their genres. Why did they get dropped? Well they continuously forgot their jerseys which represent our brand and sponsors. I know that when i leave for ANY event that my jersey is one of the first things packed. He could of held onto their success and milked it for all it was worth, but he has to make these decisions. No professional team is okay with you forgetting your proper attire. You wont even be able to play.
Now, as for NubRgini, I'm sorry things didnt work out for him, and I do believe he deserved some compensation. However, but to go public with this sort of thing is very wrong and this negative PR wasn't needed and could of easily been solved behind closed doors.
As for aspire leaving.. You guys made John's problem your entire problem. You all left because of this, but vVv gave you a home, mumble, forums, access to other resources to help build and sustain your community. There was a lot of room left for improvement with Aspire before there could of been further considerations of sponsorship.
vVv Gaming has tried many things to spark our SC2 community. We concistently sent players to MLG and supported them heavily. We hosted Wednsday Night StarCraft for almost an entire year. We invited professional and amateur teams come challenge us for 100$. and we paid that same day. We hosted the losers bracket pod cast and invited many SC2 personalities on the show. I highly recommend watching vVv Lord Jeirth and vVv Paradise talk to Liquid'Sheth about esports.
After MLG Anaheim and a poor showing by the entire team, the management dropped a few sponsorships and held onto RuFF and Glon. I couldnt blame them for their decision. We were currently rebuilding our third team, we established contracts for Seohyeon, and NSHShuttle, but we continued to struggle and we were losingmore than 50% of our Wedsnday Night Starcrafts.
Jerry decided to stop wasting money, he wanted us to win the majority and to go down in style at MLG. We weren't performing and once again wasted his money.
We also booted up an Academy, after feed back from team liquid, to send one of our amatuers to MLG. Guess what happened? The division didnt take the opportunity and run with it and Jerry, once again, felt like it would be money wasted if they didnt practice.
THEN WE STARTED EXPERIENCE INITIATIVE.
Which myself tried to start. In short, the proffesionals support the community, and vVv will compensate you. Things like coaching, streaming, posting on forums and replay reviews. I tried it for a short time, but for someone like me who has 50 hour work weeks and additional school - I just simply didnt have the time to take advantage of the opportunity. And RuFF was asked to resign after he discontinued adding value back to the team.
I just wanted you all to know that vVv Gaming was an amazing experience and I'm sorry for all the bed energy that is going around a company a grew to love.
Every MLG I went to I was heavily supported, I was given great life advice, and taken out to dinners. I was given gear, and met amazing professional gamers across so mannny different games.
I just wanted people to know that there are so many great things about the company and that due to some individuals that decided to make stupid posts, it tarnishes a whole organizations reputation.
Watching this saddens me. A decision has been made. One that I whole-heartedly support. Any organization has to set priorities. Doom and Rob made an unpopular decision. Good. I applaud their courage in looking long-term and being smart enough to focus on what they feel most passionate about. My view on this:
-vVv should have dropped sc2 sooner -focus on your passions. Rob and Doom are clearly passionate about LoL, shootmania and CoD -the negativity and response from the sc2 community is no suprise - the outright lies from some people who were in vVv, although sad to see, is not worth a response
So, the sc2 community now hates vVv. This is expected. Some people don't like how they handled it. This is also expected. This is the kind of call that always upsets people. Aspire left, they close.d the division. If it's important to stress that Aspire left, ok, consider it so stressed, lol.
The good news is vVv will benefit from Rob and Doom making tough calls, focusing the organization and supporting team titles like LoL, Shootmania and CoD. MICHS and FIFA also. I know they have great plans for 2013. This all will pass. The world moves on. Be kind to one another. Think before you post. Onward!
He's just so full of himself, I've hated this guy since I first heard him talk, and he just can't admit or even believe that he or vVv could do anything wrong. Kinda hilarious and also sad for those who work under him.
Also, I want to note - he notes that Aspire left, but praises his staff for making the tough call? Was it a tough call really to close a division that no longer had any players?
Whether they were removed, or they left actually MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. If they left, rebuilding the division isnt plausible for a fourth time. Especially since WoL is almost at its end. If they stayed, would the division of stayed? Yes? When they say closing their division it wasnt personal.. I dont see how it could of been personal. It was realistic. Without the aspire community the division was dead.
And truth be told. Maybe vVv.sc2 should of passed on with our last real semi-pro team. However, lots of friendships were made and now they have found each other. Whether it be on vVv or not.
With that being said. I still felt like the exit of the division could of been held better.
I had posted this in the other article but felt it should be here as well.
Interesting stuff =/. I'm dead tired, so I apologize if this is incoherent
As a member of the old squad consisting of Time, Murder, Rigid and Myself (ruff came a little later <3), I should probably say a few things. To me, Jerry was rather forward of what he expected and truthfully gave us the conditions which were expected in order to earn a sponsorship. I can even remember the times at MLG where he would completely annihilate me for not performing well enough-- threatening to drop me, etc. (it was true, I could have really done well. Although, the one time I did well, I wasn't forced to catch a flight the day of at 6am and play until 1am into the 4th bracket. Ironically, the one time I showed up the day before, I only ended up losing to white-ra 2-1). At the time, he wanted to pull sponsorship completely and raze the sc2 division to the ground. But, he couldn't. He was stuck with us because all the more known players were taken, leaving him us.
So, he tried to build a foundation for vVv by making the most talented player the captain, Murder. Fast-forward a few months and life pulls him away for a little bit. Time decides to move on, Rigid is already gone (miss you!), and i'm pretty much the only one remaining. This is when Ruff and Hasu show up to fulfill the open roster spots in efforts to piece the team back together. But, no offense, Murder and Time were the stronger players at the time and helped put vvv on the map for early sc2.
This is about the time sponsorship actually hit its peak for vVv. All the events previous to the time ruff, hasu, and myself competed, I paid out of my pocket to attend (minus hotel). For I think 2-3 events, Jerry ended up paying the full sponsorship as promised from the contracts during this time. Sadly, we performed horribly (except ruff. lol at strifeco game). So, Rhode Island was pretty much the last major venture I think vVv ended up taking. Well, at least for the time I was there.
I don't know if this has shared any revelation of what not, but I thought it should at lest be written for whoever feels the need to read my shitty writing.
Personally, I like Jerry and Jordan. They are intelligent men who have helped me along my way through life and countless others who were on the team. It is odd when your boss talks to you more about personal issues/life than he does the business side.
As for the business side, I can understand the reasoning for Jerry's investment and the realism he displayed during my time with them. However, I do believe they missed an opportunity when Time/Murder/Myself were seriously considering a team house. The talent of murder and the freaking genius of Time was absurd. I think we could have made a strong team, especially with Glon/Rocker/Ruff/Hasu coming to the team a little later. We could have been scary... so much talent, what a waste.
Great to see your post Titan. I hope you are doing well my friend :D.
Thanks for your input, it matters to me and others.
Hes quite right though, we had an amazing team and slowly, everyone peaked and left at different periods. Its too bad our team house didnt come through, because I feel that vVv would of stayed at the top of NA with the old lineup and improving lineup.
On February 01 2013 08:33 Hasuu wrote: If popularity was such an important issue
vVv Gaming wouldn't of dropped two different MLG Champions in MK9
Well they continuously forgot their jerseys which represent our brand and sponsors.
I'm not sure what you mean by "popularity" here. Popularity with the gaming community as a whole? Yes, vVv certainly didn't care about that. Popularity of there players? Like you just mentioned, players were fired because the team couldn't milk them enough. They most certainly considered that an important issue.
I'm well-versed on the issue with vVv's fighting game roster and they most certainly should be wearing their sponsored gear. I actually agree with releasing them if it happened as often as vVv claims (the players certainly contested this). But the whole issue was that LJ wasn't able to milk them as much as he wanted in the first place, which is all about their popularity. You're basically proving the opposite point!
On February 01 2013 08:33 Hasuu wrote: Now, as for NubRgini, I'm sorry things didnt work out for him, and I do believe he deserved some compensation. However, but to go public with this sort of thing is very wrong and this negative PR wasn't needed and could of easily been solved behind closed doors.
I (and I assume many others in the community) most certainly doubt that anything would have gotten solved behind closed doors. The guy has 0 respect for his players. He should've been out there finding more sponsors rather than
On February 01 2013 08:33 Hasuu wrote: vVv Gaming has tried many things to spark our SC2 community. We concistently sent players to MLG and supported them heavily.
First off, funny that there's no signs of that anywhere. And second, no, no you really didn't support them worth a damn.
On January 30 2013 02:22 Zennith wrote: Post from LordJerith:
Watching this saddens me. A decision has been made. One that I whole-heartedly support. Any organization has to set priorities. Doom and Rob made an unpopular decision. Good. I applaud their courage in looking long-term and being smart enough to focus on what they feel most passionate about. My view on this:
-vVv should have dropped sc2 sooner -focus on your passions. Rob and Doom are clearly passionate about LoL, shootmania and CoD -the negativity and response from the sc2 community is no suprise - the outright lies from some people who were in vVv, although sad to see, is not worth a response
So, the sc2 community now hates vVv. This is expected. Some people don't like how they handled it. This is also expected. This is the kind of call that always upsets people. Aspire left, they close.d the division. If it's important to stress that Aspire left, ok, consider it so stressed, lol.
The good news is vVv will benefit from Rob and Doom making tough calls, focusing the organization and supporting team titles like LoL, Shootmania and CoD. MICHS and FIFA also. I know they have great plans for 2013. This all will pass. The world moves on. Be kind to one another. Think before you post. Onward!
He's just so full of himself, I've hated this guy since I first heard him talk, and he just can't admit or even believe that he or vVv could do anything wrong. Kinda hilarious and also sad for those who work under him.
Also, I want to note - he notes that Aspire left, but praises his staff for making the tough call? Was it a tough call really to close a division that no longer had any players?
Whether they were removed, or they left actually MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. If they left, rebuilding the division isnt plausible for a fourth time. Especially since WoL is almost at its end. If they stayed, would the division of stayed? Yes? When they say closing their division it wasnt personal.. I dont see how it could of been personal. It was realistic. Without the aspire community the division was dead.
See, yes, yes it does matter. One is the truth and the other is a blatant lie to make vVv's management look better. My mind is blown how you can pretend that somehow isn't relevant. I've seen a massive share of spindoctoring in my time and I rarely get this frustrated with posts, but come on.
If you want to contribute, stick to your personal experiences. I'd encourage you to share and bring a different point of view to the thread. Just don't try to sweep things under the rug and don't try to fog the issue.
(Amazing what searching your name on TL will find you)
Late on this, but I already see that I was right when I left. I had some doubts that maybe vVv wanted to continue on the competetive side of things, but from the looks of it; its not happening. Even if your competetive or not, I highly suggest keeping starcraft in your selection of growing games, seeing as it is the 2nd largest game in the United States. If you focus only on league you may run into problems down the road, Even if you don't offer sponsorships anymore, keep it going.
Also for all those who consider themselves L33tists in this forum. (aka ROOT). I highly suggest keeping down the e-p. Unless your over in korea competing, you can expect the NA scene to be !@#$ compared to the korean scene. People like you guys are based on your creativeness and entertainment, not because your good. When it comes to the NA scene, MLG has shown me that it is a pushover compared to korean players. Hence I hardily lose to NA players at MLG. Which is why I love to rush and nuke people and still win against GM players lawl lawl lawl. *Trolls*
On February 17 2013 12:49 vVvRuFF wrote: (Amazing what searching your name on TL will find you)
Late on this, but I already see that I was right when I left. I had some doubts that maybe vVv wanted to continue on the competetive side of things, but from the looks of it; its not happening. Even if your competetive or not, I highly suggest keeping starcraft in your selection of growing games, seeing as it is the 2nd largest game in the United States. If you focus only on league you may run into problems down the road, Even if you don't offer sponsorships anymore, keep it going.
Also for all those who consider themselves L33tists in this forum. (aka ROOT). I highly suggest keeping down the e-p. Unless your over in korea competing, you can expect the NA scene to be !@#$ compared to the korean scene. People like you guys are based on your creativeness and entertainment, not because your good. When it comes to the NA scene, MLG has shown me that it is a pushover compared to korean players. Hence I hardily lose to NA players at MLG. Which is why I love to rush and nuke people and still win against GM players lawl lawl lawl. *Trolls*
heh
You just made yourself look really really bad. Not that you needed to do it yourself, I guess.
On February 17 2013 12:49 vVvRuFF wrote: (Amazing what searching your name on TL will find you)
Late on this, but I already see that I was right when I left. I had some doubts that maybe vVv wanted to continue on the competetive side of things, but from the looks of it; its not happening. Even if your competetive or not, I highly suggest keeping starcraft in your selection of growing games, seeing as it is the 2nd largest game in the United States. If you focus only on league you may run into problems down the road, Even if you don't offer sponsorships anymore, keep it going.
Also for all those who consider themselves L33tists in this forum. (aka ROOT). I highly suggest keeping down the e-p. Unless your over in korea competing, you can expect the NA scene to be !@#$ compared to the korean scene. People like you guys are based on your creativeness and entertainment, not because your good. When it comes to the NA scene, MLG has shown me that it is a pushover compared to korean players. Hence I hardily lose to NA players at MLG. Which is why I love to rush and nuke people and still win against GM players lawl lawl lawl. *Trolls*
heh
You just made yourself look really really bad. Not that you needed to do it yourself, I guess.
I think he actually thinks his cheesy play classifies him as good that post made me laugh.
On February 17 2013 12:49 vVvRuFF wrote: (Amazing what searching your name on TL will find you)
Late on this, but I already see that I was right when I left. I had some doubts that maybe vVv wanted to continue on the competetive side of things, but from the looks of it; its not happening. Even if your competetive or not, I highly suggest keeping starcraft in your selection of growing games, seeing as it is the 2nd largest game in the United States. If you focus only on league you may run into problems down the road, Even if you don't offer sponsorships anymore, keep it going.
Also for all those who consider themselves L33tists in this forum. (aka ROOT). I highly suggest keeping down the e-p. Unless your over in korea competing, you can expect the NA scene to be !@#$ compared to the korean scene. People like you guys are based on your creativeness and entertainment, not because your good. When it comes to the NA scene, MLG has shown me that it is a pushover compared to korean players. Hence I hardily lose to NA players at MLG. Which is why I love to rush and nuke people and still win against GM players lawl lawl lawl. *Trolls*
heh
You just made yourself look really really bad. Not that you needed to do it yourself, I guess.
I think he actually thinks his cheesy play classifies him as good that post made me laugh.
Eh. It's annoying, but I'm kind of in the mode of - if you can win in whatever way, go for it. So whatever. He's definitely not bad.
On February 17 2013 12:49 vVvRuFF wrote: (Amazing what searching your name on TL will find you)
Late on this, but I already see that I was right when I left. I had some doubts that maybe vVv wanted to continue on the competetive side of things, but from the looks of it; its not happening. Even if your competetive or not, I highly suggest keeping starcraft in your selection of growing games, seeing as it is the 2nd largest game in the United States. If you focus only on league you may run into problems down the road, Even if you don't offer sponsorships anymore, keep it going.
Also for all those who consider themselves L33tists in this forum. (aka ROOT). I highly suggest keeping down the e-p. Unless your over in korea competing, you can expect the NA scene to be !@#$ compared to the korean scene. People like you guys are based on your creativeness and entertainment, not because your good. When it comes to the NA scene, MLG has shown me that it is a pushover compared to korean players. Hence I hardily lose to NA players at MLG. Which is why I love to rush and nuke people and still win against GM players lawl lawl lawl. *Trolls*
heh
Why did you feel the need to bump this 2 week old thread mainly to talk shit and act childish? Even less respect for you now (not that there was much to begin with).
On February 18 2013 01:43 Mattchew wrote: murder titan time alej and nrgy had the potential to be NA's top team. Too bad they couldn't keep them around and practicing
Still never going to be better than Idra, Incontrol, Suppy, etc.
On February 18 2013 01:43 Mattchew wrote: murder titan time alej and nrgy had the potential to be NA's top team. Too bad they couldn't keep them around and practicing
Still never going to be better than Idra, Incontrol, Suppy, etc.
they actually beat EG a couple times(?) in some very early tournaments. I would bet that all 5 names I posted, had they practiced consistently, would have been better than everyone on EG other than maybe idra.
On February 18 2013 01:43 Mattchew wrote: murder titan time alej and nrgy had the potential to be NA's top team. Too bad they couldn't keep them around and practicing
Still never going to be better than Idra, Incontrol, Suppy, etc.
Considering where Idra is, and where Incontrol was at the top of his game, you picked some of the worst players on EG to try and make that point.
On February 17 2013 12:49 vVvRuFF wrote: (Amazing what searching your name on TL will find you)
Late on this, but I already see that I was right when I left. I had some doubts that maybe vVv wanted to continue on the competetive side of things, but from the looks of it; its not happening. Even if your competetive or not, I highly suggest keeping starcraft in your selection of growing games, seeing as it is the 2nd largest game in the United States. If you focus only on league you may run into problems down the road, Even if you don't offer sponsorships anymore, keep it going.
Also for all those who consider themselves L33tists in this forum. (aka ROOT). I highly suggest keeping down the e-p. Unless your over in korea competing, you can expect the NA scene to be !@#$ compared to the korean scene. People like you guys are based on your creativeness and entertainment, not because your good. When it comes to the NA scene, MLG has shown me that it is a pushover compared to korean players. Hence I hardily lose to NA players at MLG. Which is why I love to rush and nuke people and still win against GM players lawl lawl lawl. *Trolls*
heh
Never heard of you, and from what I'm reading I'm not surprised either. Maturity will get you a lot further in life.
On February 18 2013 01:43 Mattchew wrote: murder titan time alej and nrgy had the potential to be NA's top team. Too bad they couldn't keep them around and practicing
Still never going to be better than Idra, Incontrol, Suppy, etc.
Considering where Idra is, and where Incontrol was at the top of his game, you picked some of the worst players on EG to try and make that point.
I think that actually strengthens the point. Apart from MAYBE Incontrol, and thats a big big maybe, vVv's roster still does not compare with them despite IdrA not doing well. Apart from that, hope the players find teams and grow, maybe one day they will be great players.
On February 18 2013 01:43 Mattchew wrote: murder titan time alej and nrgy had the potential to be NA's top team. Too bad they couldn't keep them around and practicing
Still never going to be better than Idra, Incontrol, Suppy, etc.
Considering where Idra is, and where Incontrol was at the top of his game, you picked some of the worst players on EG to try and make that point.
I think that actually strengthens the point. Apart from MAYBE Incontrol, and thats a big big maybe, vVv's roster still does not compare with them despite IdrA not doing well.
Yup, that was my point. And also, I picked the actual north americans on EG's roster.
It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Holy crap Ruff, just stop kid. I don't like root, in fact I dislike them but it's extremely rare even on the internet to see such childish behavior out of anyone, much less someone trying to get known by plugging their shit at every available opportunity.
Fact of the matter is Catz has never been a top contender from NA, neither has Destiny, and when you beat Incontrol he was already on the decline. So congrtatulations Ruff, you have beaten (relative) no namers in the sense of what competition actually means. Now go beat Suppy, Scarlett etc or kindly stop with your annoying whining ego-boost posts.
On February 17 2013 16:22 intense555 wrote: Sucks to see the best NA team disband
Fanboys never cease to amuse me. It's like they are living in a different reality. In what sense was the team "the best"? Tournament results? Not really, right. Or maybe a friendly, family-like atmosphere, great management doing their best for their SC2 team and the scene as a whole? Wait that's not exactly what players statements imply.
Look man, it's not a funeral and players aren't dead yet, we don't need to pretend they were perfect guys and best players and the world is not the same again, right. They will find a team better suiting their needs.
On February 17 2013 16:22 intense555 wrote: Sucks to see the best NA team disband
Fanboys never cease to amuse me. It's like they are living in a different reality. In what sense was the team "the best"? Tournament results? Not really, right. Or maybe a friendly, family-like atmosphere, great management doing their best for their SC2 team and the scene as a whole? Wait that's not exactly what players statements imply.
Look man, it's not a funeral and players aren't dead yet, we don't need to pretend they were perfect guys and best players and the world is not the same again, right. They will find a team better suiting their needs.
The best team just means the person's favorite. Just as a Packers fan would say that their team is the best even when they didn't do the best that season, a person will still say their favorites are the best...because to them, they are! So why should you care what they think is the best?
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
well since ruff decided to reopen this topic for some unknown reason. I dont know what youre trying to get at? You beat some okay players at MLG?(okay cool CatZ used to run ROOT didnt have time to play, obv incontrol is doing his thing, ddoro hardly practices from what i hear) Was this also during the era when T was ripping on everyone? somethings to factor in.
Right now this feel like a desrow post "I just beat liquid'sheth lets write a blog about it" nobody cares just go away your 27 years old and youre acting like your 18 desrow changed his act up, you seemingly have not.
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
You have no idea what you and your buddy destiny had done to me back in the day, with your bashing. You claim that you aren't bashing, but your intent is there indirectly; even in this post. Why degrade a player and then say your not talking badly about them.
Something I dislike are two faced people. I love how I met destiny for the first time in Orlando pretending to be some nice guy. Then once back online he goes right back to his degrading behavior. People think I am rude, I just come off strongly. At least my posts present facts and I have proof to back them up.
ROOT in general has trashy two faced players. Like when I beat Leiya at MLG, then once back online becomes a douchy kid like everyone else (Suprised I fell for that one).
Every other e-sports NA team I know of has well mannered players, besides ROOT. Hell, thats how you get your viewers right? Using some of destiny's ideas of trashing others. I don't think I've ever whined or bitched when playing others besides saying gg, or asking what their aka is if they beat me and I dunno who they are.
I choose when to be professional and I also choose when to become douchey. I only become a douche to douches. Thats how I opperate on the internet and in RL. Be the nice little boy you are and stick to your moms basement, everyone knows your still there ordering pizza.
Adios, bud. Slander and send your fanboys after me all you want via stream or in this post. I've had my say and am pretty happy with it.
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
You have no idea what you and your buddy destiny had done to me back in the day, with your bashing. You claim that you aren't bashing, but your intent is there indirectly; even in this post. Why degrade a player and then say your not talking badly about them.
Something I dislike are two faced people. I love how I met destiny for the first time in Orlando pretending to be some nice guy. Then once back online he goes right back to his degrading behavior. People think I am rude, I just come off strongly. At least my posts present facts and I have proof to back them up.
ROOT in general has trashy two faced players. Like when I beat Leiya at MLG, then once back online becomes a douchy kid like everyone else (Suprised I fell for that one).
Every other e-sports NA team I know of has well mannered players, besides ROOT. Hell, thats how you get your viewers right? Using some of destiny's ideas of trashing others. I don't think I've ever whined or bitched when playing others besides saying gg, or asking what their aka is if they beat me and I dunno who they are.
I choose when to be professional and I also choose when to become douchey. I only become a douche to douches. Thats how I opperate on the internet and in RL. Be the nice little boy you are and stick to your moms basement, everyone knows your still there ordering pizza.
Adios, bud. Slander and send your fanboys after me all you want via stream or in this post. I've had my say and am pretty happy with it.
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
Wow I knew you were pretty immature just from stomping you on ladder but this is a little silly isn't it? Just drop the drama, any team disbanding is bad news and even if they aren't the most popular team I still find it interesting to read these types of articles. It sucks that vVv is disbanding but it doesn't surprise me because well as it was stated they did lose their best players and they don't have much self promotion. Hopefully the players will find a new home.
How can you tell that somebody is immature just by beating them in a ladder game? Sounds like some pretty silly back door bragging. I have to wonder who is really immature.
Funny how when RuFF was getting smashed in ESEA vs NA teams and then him and his shitty team accused EVERYONE of hacking when they lost, or they would get butt hurt if people refused their no obs rule.
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
Wow I knew you were pretty immature just from stomping you on ladder but this is a little silly isn't it? Just drop the drama, any team disbanding is bad news and even if they aren't the most popular team I still find it interesting to read these types of articles. It sucks that vVv is disbanding but it doesn't surprise me because well as it was stated they did lose their best players and they don't have much self promotion. Hopefully the players will find a new home.
How can you tell that somebody is immature just by beating them in a ladder game? Sounds like some pretty silly back door bragging. I have to wonder who is really immature.
Because every time we play he rages and makes some silly excuses on why he loses and how terrible I really am. He loses, bms for a while, then sends a lengthy insult and puts you on ignore. Seems pretty immature to me... There may be a little bragging involved though . I'll admit I am guilty of enjoying a remark here or there after the... 4th? game where he has pulled this stunt.
Edit: This isn't really related to the OP though so if you have anything to add feel free to PM me so we don't derail the thread further.
Edit2: (after messaged on pg13) I can see that there are is some prior drama inbetween root and ruff, on second thought I retract my message. Despite catz not being on my popular list I can't respond correctly here without knowing more of the story, butting out. ^^ /apologies.
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
Player skill aside because it is fairly obvious to anybody skilled the level of play from the players mentioned in this thread.
After dealing/knowing people who have dealt with jerith since a little before 09, catz is correct that he is the biggest scumbag ever. You could have any fantastic player join vvv and it would have been a joke team because of him.
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
Wow I knew you were pretty immature just from stomping you on ladder but this is a little silly isn't it? Just drop the drama, any team disbanding is bad news and even if they aren't the most popular team I still find it interesting to read these types of articles. It sucks that vVv is disbanding but it doesn't surprise me because well as it was stated they did lose their best players and they don't have much self promotion. Hopefully the players will find a new home.
How can you tell that somebody is immature just by beating them in a ladder game? Sounds like some pretty silly back door bragging. I have to wonder who is really immature.
Because every time we play he rages and makes some silly excuses on why he loses and how terrible I really am. He loses, bms for a while, then sends a lengthy insult and puts you on ignore. Seems pretty immature to me... There may be a little bragging involved though . I'll admit I am guilty of enjoying a remark here or there after the... 4th? game where he has pulled this stunt.
Edit: This isn't really related to the OP though so if you have anything to add feel free to PM me so we don't derail the thread further.
No that's fine. You answered my question well enough. This thread doesn't really have rails anymore it seems anyway though.
edit: By the way, is this RuFF or CatZ you're referring to?
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
Wow I knew you were pretty immature just from stomping you on ladder but this is a little silly isn't it? Just drop the drama, any team disbanding is bad news and even if they aren't the most popular team I still find it interesting to read these types of articles. It sucks that vVv is disbanding but it doesn't surprise me because well as it was stated they did lose their best players and they don't have much self promotion. Hopefully the players will find a new home.
How can you tell that somebody is immature just by beating them in a ladder game? Sounds like some pretty silly back door bragging. I have to wonder who is really immature.
RuFF tends to whine and BM when you beat him on ladder, pretty sure im not the only one who got it.
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
Wow I knew you were pretty immature just from stomping you on ladder but this is a little silly isn't it? Just drop the drama, any team disbanding is bad news and even if they aren't the most popular team I still find it interesting to read these types of articles. It sucks that vVv is disbanding but it doesn't surprise me because well as it was stated they did lose their best players and they don't have much self promotion. Hopefully the players will find a new home.
How can you tell that somebody is immature just by beating them in a ladder game? Sounds like some pretty silly back door bragging. I have to wonder who is really immature.
RuFF tends to whine and BM when you beat him on ladder, pretty sure im not the only one who got it.
I don't know RuFF's personality I was actually referring to Catz.
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
Wow I knew you were pretty immature just from stomping you on ladder but this is a little silly isn't it? Just drop the drama, any team disbanding is bad news and even if they aren't the most popular team I still find it interesting to read these types of articles. It sucks that vVv is disbanding but it doesn't surprise me because well as it was stated they did lose their best players and they don't have much self promotion. Hopefully the players will find a new home.
How can you tell that somebody is immature just by beating them in a ladder game? Sounds like some pretty silly back door bragging. I have to wonder who is really immature.
RuFF tends to whine and BM when you beat him on ladder, pretty sure im not the only one who got it.
I don't know RuFF's personality I was actually referring to Catz.
Oh it's pretty easy to find out, just go back to his first post in this thread and work your way down. Damn BM CatZ.
On February 20 2013 05:37 vVvRuFF wrote: It is all about the MLG Statistics people. Simple fact of the matter I hurt ROOT fanboys feelings. But when I beat Catz at MLG 2-0, Incontrol, ddoro, puck, and other recognizable players, you would think there would be some appriciation to teams like vVv. (Let alone beat them in macro series) Search the reps yourself. They have no right to bash people in this thread. (2 weeks old or not). Simple fact of the matter NA players are ez. Statistics show I lose to Koreans 75% of the time at MLG. Go to www.majorleaguegaming.com and search my replays. Hell search this teams replays and you'll see similarities. vVv was good in its old times.
Love when high teir players stream and they try to degrade people because they are butt-hurt. Out of everyone in vVv I'm the only person that can actually come out and say that. Primarily because the trolling has no effect as I've dealt with it since 2010 starcraft when I was beating silly kids like destiny.
My bad reputation is of that of silly troll players that are butthurt from losing. Sorry I sound like an ass when I say it, but its the truth. I wouldn't get so much crap if it weren't for people like Catz and Destiny in the first place. (btw I still have that replay of triple nuking catz and winning) Just shows the ez'ness behind NA players. www.topreplays.com (Uploaded way back in the day)
Love vVv for taking me in under that kinda crap reputation, just to show that I can beat them at mlg. Appriciated the opportunity.
Not bashing on you RuFF, that was a sad thing to read, cause you see, I don't remember losing to you at MLG, Im sure I did, but I could careless, its you keeping tabs, not me, I honestly don't care. As far as I am concerned, you are a really bad player, and on top of that you're a rude, hypocrite, douchebag. You've been trying to become relevant since day 1 of the beta and you haven't been able to, so what you should be doing is thanking me and destiny for ever giving you any sort of attention.
Its not secret to anyone that I don't just play the game, I run a team and have a lot of responsibilities outside of playing the game, I've never claimed to be a top player, but I take pride in certain things, perhaps my greatest ability is to have enough game knowledge and experience to tell good players from shitty players appart, reason for which I was quick to say -no- when you asked if there was any chance to join ROOT after you left / got kicked out of vVv (not claiming you got kicked, I just don't care to make a difference, cause... i don't care)
Either way, never attacked you or vVv directly, just LordJerith, cause he's the biggest scumbag i've ever had to come across in e-sports, so I am sorry to dissapoint you, RuFF, but you're not even good at being bad.
Wow I knew you were pretty immature just from stomping you on ladder but this is a little silly isn't it? Just drop the drama, any team disbanding is bad news and even if they aren't the most popular team I still find it interesting to read these types of articles. It sucks that vVv is disbanding but it doesn't surprise me because well as it was stated they did lose their best players and they don't have much self promotion. Hopefully the players will find a new home.
How can you tell that somebody is immature just by beating them in a ladder game? Sounds like some pretty silly back door bragging. I have to wonder who is really immature.
RuFF tends to whine and BM when you beat him on ladder, pretty sure im not the only one who got it.
I don't know RuFF's personality I was actually referring to Catz.
Oh it's pretty easy to find out, just go back to his first post in this thread and work your way down. Damn BM CatZ.
Ah I went back to find it, I can see that there are is some prior drama inbetween root and ruff, on second thought I retract my message. Despite catz not being on my popular list I can't respond correctly here without knowing more of the story, butting out. ^^ /apologies.
If youre trying to show people that youre a mannered person ruff you have failed horribly. Be the bigger person and walk away(what you shouldve done)
But i was about to guess that CatZ denied you entrance to ROOT but then I read the thread thats exactly what happened. I dont know you personally and weve played 1-2 but I watch streams alot and you are just as BM as everyone else is.
You know RuFF, you can really tell you're from vVv. The team is based on making an ass out of themselves to get attention. Hell, that's LJ's fucking business model even. Cry and shout long enough until someone takes notice. Pathetic. How about for once you or LJ let your accomplishments speak rather than throwing hissyfits. You're doing esports, but far more so yourself, a big disservice. Man the fuck up.
Can we just go back to ignoring RuFF's existence again? He clearly isn't good enough or mature enough for the amount of attention he is getting in this thread. No need to pump his tires and let him think his opinion actually matters. Let's just let him fade back into obscurity.
On February 21 2013 01:35 TehV747 wrote: damn everyone jumping on the root fanboy train. ruffs made valid point and everyone just ignores him.
Root fanboy train? Have you read the immature things RuFF has been saying?
I don't know everything about the Root vs RuFF drama, all I know is that RuFF is acting like a pissed off 14 year old. If he was capable of being mature, people might respect him more.
On February 21 2013 01:35 TehV747 wrote: damn everyone jumping on the root fanboy train. ruffs made valid point and everyone just ignores him.
What valid point exactly? He is saying he is "just comes of strongly" yet every post of him in this thread includes insults. He is saying he is not BM or immature yet his posts here show exactly otherwise. To say it simply, his own posts disprove his point.
On February 21 2013 03:32 vGDaverave wrote: I've met lots of them on ladder - they are all bm and always make up excuses on why they lost. Hope the best for vvv not the players who were in it.
Well I think you shouldn't judge the whole team immediatly!
EPT
That statement made me sad. Good luck anyway vVv, especially the fighting games roster
