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Is Terran to remain the lowest played race? - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
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patronage
Profile Joined October 2011
Iraq123 Posts
January 19 2013 22:21 GMT
#261
I have been saying this for a while, but people tell me stop QQ, and look at win rates, which are like less than 50% for terran currently. But win rates don't show you how terrans are winning games on the ladder, are they winning late game beating broodlord/ultra/infestor or collosus archon storm armies, or do they do some timing attack off one or two bases?
Iron_
Profile Joined April 2010
United States389 Posts
January 20 2013 00:17 GMT
#262
On January 20 2013 07:10 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2013 05:11 Iron_ wrote:
On January 20 2013 04:35 avilo wrote:
On January 19 2013 22:26 Leviance wrote:
I'm sure in HotS Terran players will rise again


There will be less Terrans in HOTS, a lot of people are currently in the process of switching races or simply quitting if they played Terran because the expansion offers nothing new to Terran players.

You basically play the same game with a bad spider mine, while the other races get insane new stuff + insane buffs that make it feel like you're playing wings of liberty vs buffed P/Z + new units.



You are in the scene quite a bit, can you help explain to me why they took away our only late game help (the medivac healing boost)? Why did they not just tweak it if they thought it was a bit much? Why make our late game even worse and boost our all in ability instead? After these changes HOTS was simply put not fun anymore so I went back to WOL.


Bad decision making by the dev team. Because with the new ultralisk buff, that medivac healing is pretty necessary for bio play. I've played quite a few TvZ now and a lot of Zerg are simply massing ultras 1A and winning games without even microing.

And those ones aren't even the tip top Zergs, imagine the ones that actually are mega mega good that abuse the new 12 range fungal + mega buff ultras...etc..

Pretty disappointing that they removed the medivac healing upgrade but leave the other races with lategame buffs + new stuff.


Yea late game getting even harder wasn't exactly what I was hoping for. It's funny, with that medivac boost I was still a little disappointed that we had to play exactly the same way as in WOL, but at least it was a little better. Then they moved the upgrade to the useless BC building. Then they took it away. What a cruel joke this has all seemed like.
Tileks
Profile Joined January 2013
Brazil74 Posts
January 20 2013 00:39 GMT
#263
On January 20 2013 09:17 Iron_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2013 07:10 avilo wrote:
On January 20 2013 05:11 Iron_ wrote:
On January 20 2013 04:35 avilo wrote:
On January 19 2013 22:26 Leviance wrote:
I'm sure in HotS Terran players will rise again


There will be less Terrans in HOTS, a lot of people are currently in the process of switching races or simply quitting if they played Terran because the expansion offers nothing new to Terran players.

You basically play the same game with a bad spider mine, while the other races get insane new stuff + insane buffs that make it feel like you're playing wings of liberty vs buffed P/Z + new units.



You are in the scene quite a bit, can you help explain to me why they took away our only late game help (the medivac healing boost)? Why did they not just tweak it if they thought it was a bit much? Why make our late game even worse and boost our all in ability instead? After these changes HOTS was simply put not fun anymore so I went back to WOL.


Bad decision making by the dev team. Because with the new ultralisk buff, that medivac healing is pretty necessary for bio play. I've played quite a few TvZ now and a lot of Zerg are simply massing ultras 1A and winning games without even microing.

And those ones aren't even the tip top Zergs, imagine the ones that actually are mega mega good that abuse the new 12 range fungal + mega buff ultras...etc..

Pretty disappointing that they removed the medivac healing upgrade but leave the other races with lategame buffs + new stuff.


Yea late game getting even harder wasn't exactly what I was hoping for. It's funny, with that medivac boost I was still a little disappointed that we had to play exactly the same way as in WOL, but at least it was a little better. Then they moved the upgrade to the useless BC building. Then they took it away. What a cruel joke this has all seemed like.


It seems that the dev team will not add a new terran unit so I think they should some Fusion Core upgrades. Something like a 250\250 120sec upgrade that decrease the building time of all units by 15% (except SVCs). That way Terran can remax faster and dont lose to the next warpin or zerg remax after a close and even battle.
vayuu
Profile Joined May 2012
Canada66 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-20 04:06:34
January 20 2013 04:00 GMT
#264
here is the crux of the terran conundrum

lets put it this way, if you were to turn pro and you knew that your absolute skill potential was ~low tier code A/ decent but not great foreigner, what race would you choose?

Absolutely not terran if you hope to have any reasonable success.

If you knew that your skills were going to be among the best there is, then would you choose terran?

Now that is a definite possibility. The strength of terran is that its a extreme double edged sword. Terran played at its absolute perfection is at least slightly superior to zerg perfection and infinitely superior to protoss perfection. However, anything less best performance with terran leads to a very steep drop off in success, if your not literally at the top of the food chain, a Terran player is not going to have as much success relatively to the other races.

Luepert
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1933 Posts
January 20 2013 04:13 GMT
#265
I switched form Terran to Zerg back when TLO did, I'm going back to terran with hots. The reaper and hellion changes really won me over.
esports
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-20 10:22:48
January 20 2013 10:21 GMT
#266
On January 19 2013 06:23 SuperYo1000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 05:02 Targe wrote:
On January 19 2013 01:20 Avean wrote:
How is Terran more mechanical difficult at lower Leagues when Terran is the only race of them all that has similar mechanics to other RTS games. If you have ever played another RTS game, Terran will be the easiest to pick up and learn since they have the classic RTS mechanics with pumping out units from Barracks. Protoss and Zerg works completely different.

Just dont agree that Terran is difficult to learn.


Terran doesn't have a cushion to fall back on like Protoss and Zerg, that's what makes its mechanics so hard, Zergs have the ability to build up larva to instantly remax and Toss can warp in a whole load of zealots, Terran have to wait 50s for a marine to pop.



last I checked marines took 25 seconds to build. Also by large terran will have the largest army out of all races when game gets to 3+ bases since mules replace scv's to an extent. If your going to try an argue your point dont try to exaggerate to get your point across...it doesnt work


oops, I honestly thought it was 50s...
I have no need to exaggerate, it's commonly thought that Terran has the most punishing mechanics.
As for your point about mules, are you honestly trying to say that a slightly larger bio army is going to beat bl/infestor or destroy a T3 toss army followed by a wave of 20 zealots every time?

Protoss and Zerg have the strongest late game armies, Terran definitely does not.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Mongolbonjwa
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland376 Posts
January 20 2013 13:09 GMT
#267
Terran actually has the most powerful end game army in this game. Simply nothing can beat the right mixture of maxed and fully upgraded battlecruisers, siege tanks, thors, banshees, ghosts and vikings. Problem is just, how to get there.
Suikakuju
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany238 Posts
January 20 2013 13:18 GMT
#268
In my oppinion terran is the most strong race in this game and in hots, cuz dustin browder like to win with his race.....I really hope he retires as Jay Wilson and is replaced as fast as possible. Sadly i preordered Heart of the Terran.....

User was warned for this post
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone.
WhalesFromSpace
Profile Joined March 2012
390 Posts
January 20 2013 13:32 GMT
#269
On January 20 2013 07:10 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2013 05:11 Iron_ wrote:
On January 20 2013 04:35 avilo wrote:
On January 19 2013 22:26 Leviance wrote:
I'm sure in HotS Terran players will rise again


There will be less Terrans in HOTS, a lot of people are currently in the process of switching races or simply quitting if they played Terran because the expansion offers nothing new to Terran players.

You basically play the same game with a bad spider mine, while the other races get insane new stuff + insane buffs that make it feel like you're playing wings of liberty vs buffed P/Z + new units.



You are in the scene quite a bit, can you help explain to me why they took away our only late game help (the medivac healing boost)? Why did they not just tweak it if they thought it was a bit much? Why make our late game even worse and boost our all in ability instead? After these changes HOTS was simply put not fun anymore so I went back to WOL.


Bad decision making by the dev team. Because with the new ultralisk buff, that medivac healing is pretty necessary for bio play. I've played quite a few TvZ now and a lot of Zerg are simply massing ultras 1A and winning games without even microing.

And those ones aren't even the tip top Zergs, imagine the ones that actually are mega mega good that abuse the new 12 range fungal + mega buff ultras...etc..

Pretty disappointing that they removed the medivac healing upgrade but leave the other races with lategame buffs + new stuff.


The Ultras are really hard to deal with in HotS right now, not sure if it is worse than when they had the burrow-charge haha.
Nihility
Hypemeup
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden2783 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-20 13:34:37
January 20 2013 13:32 GMT
#270
On January 20 2013 22:09 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
Terran actually has the most powerful end game army in this game. Simply nothing can beat the right mixture of maxed and fully upgraded battlecruisers, siege tanks, thors, banshees, ghosts and vikings. Problem is just, how to get there.


You simply can not get that comp unless the map is one like Metropolis.

Terran being the hardest to play is old news, has been since the huge fungal buff really. If memory serves outside of Tfunks win at DHO:stockholm last year where he only played shitty zergs(Hardest was probably monster who is a B-teamer from MVP) the last foreign terran to win a tournament was Naama winning DHW 2010? There is a reason there are very few foreign terrans doing anything.
noD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
January 20 2013 14:18 GMT
#271
Well I will still watch sc2 for the sake of it but im pretty close to 1 year without playing =P (and last time before it was 3 games then retired again xD )
plasemeious
Profile Joined November 2009
United States244 Posts
January 20 2013 15:07 GMT
#272
On January 19 2013 08:41 bo1b wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 08:34 Koesader wrote:
On January 19 2013 08:02 bo1b wrote:
On January 19 2013 02:18 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
On January 19 2013 01:59 TsGBruzze wrote:
On January 19 2013 01:20 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
I have said this for long time, and I say this again. Terran is the hardest race by far, both mechanically and strategically.

Terran has been nerfed to the ground so many times that I have lost track, and blizzards unability to make mech work in TvP despite many attemps and opportunities tells me that nothing is going to change. I would say that terran as it is now, is in wrong game because other two races are just so much more mobile and flexible that terran has hard time to compete with them in any aspect of the game.

i cant agree with you, i played terran a long time, a very long time and just recently wanted to switch. and in my experience i must say zerg strategy and macro is hard, hell even the micro is hard unless you go for infestors...

Please, you cant seriously say that zerg has harder macro while only thing they need to build is hatchery and occasional tech building while terran constantly has to build new production facilities and addons and pay attention to merciless production cycles while zerg can forget those because larva does not disappear anywhere. Also eventually terran runs out of space and needs to build stuff to more vulnerable places.

Micro harder for zerg you say? How can you even compare your baneling a-move to marine splits that require good reaction times and fast actions otherwise all marines are gonna melt away. This game also makes autoflank so well that you dont neccesarily need to pay attention to battle at all while for terran this is never true.

You ever kept up injects on 5 hatches + creep spread? Zerg macro is hard lol, the only race with easy as shit macro is protoss.

Diamond offrace this doesn't feel that hard, then again, it's only diamond :/
But the constant macro for terran while microing feels harder and more unforgiving

It should feel hard since there isnt a pro zerg in the world who keeps his energy below 40 after 15min with more then 3 hatches.

People seem to forget just how hard it is to muta/ling/bling and are now assuming that zerg is just faceroll because theyre winning.

Have you seen JD I think he might keep his energy that low
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
January 20 2013 15:28 GMT
#273
On January 20 2013 13:00 vayuu wrote:
Terran played at its absolute perfection is at least slightly superior to zerg perfection and infinitely superior to protoss perfection.

Pure speculation.
MegaBUD
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada179 Posts
January 20 2013 15:42 GMT
#274
Meh... enjoy more and more 2 bases allin from terran... its pointless for us to go in late game... except if we want to lose...
DetermineD
Profile Joined January 2013
11 Posts
January 21 2013 11:52 GMT
#275
I think its especially hard for terrans at lower levels to snipe/emp the high templars of the protoss. For me, as a platinum player, its really hard to kill all of them before they can land one storm and if they land 1 or 2 you are basicly dead. Sure the pros can dodge snipe emp and will not miss, however I will miss sometimes or not pay attention to my army for 2 seconds.
Green Sun s Zenith
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada85 Posts
January 21 2013 12:07 GMT
#276
cry more pls
"The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the International bankers." — Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. P
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-21 12:18:31
January 21 2013 12:12 GMT
#277
On January 21 2013 20:52 DetermineD wrote:
I think its especially hard for terrans at lower levels to snipe/emp the high templars of the protoss. For me, as a platinum player, its really hard to kill all of them before they can land one storm and if they land 1 or 2 you are basicly dead. Sure the pros can dodge snipe emp and will not miss, however I will miss sometimes or not pay attention to my army for 2 seconds.


Well hopefully they'll buff the tanks some more and with widow mines for better map control they could make mech more viable . I think mech is viable at the lower levels in TvP in WOL also . I got to diamond once farely easy meching in all 3 MUs , so you could try that :D .
Dirkinity
Profile Joined November 2012
Germany409 Posts
January 21 2013 12:25 GMT
#278
Its obvious... look at the foreign terrans compared to foreign zergs/toss. Its clear that Terran is clearly the hardest race or the race you have the least success with, when your control/multitasking isn't near perfection.
The_Masked_Shrimp
Profile Joined February 2012
425 Posts
January 21 2013 12:27 GMT
#279
I was playing terran too ( was gold/plat when masters didn't exist yet) and i stopped because of progamers. I watched enough matches to know how the race should be played at high level but I couldn't have the execution, so in game I knew about my mistakes or if i was late on something instantaneously but my hands could just not follow.
Was too frustrating and i could not play regularly enough for my hands to be at the level of my mind.

This problem might be encountered with other aces too ( some friends also stopped because of that) but it seems terran is the most punishing with bad/medium unit control :p
Going4Gold
Profile Joined August 2012
United Kingdom67 Posts
January 21 2013 13:01 GMT
#280
I think Blizzard are just going to forget Terran in HotS. We've already seen them abandon the Warhound an not bother to replace it (how hard would it have been to bring back the Goliath?). We've also seen that they don't seem to mind one race (Zerg) dominating tournament after tournament for nearly a year (by the time HotS comes out) so they'll probably see a HotS where Protoss and Zerg are competetive and Terran makes it to RO8 every now and then as a step up from WoL - which it will be post Queen buff.
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