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On January 13 2013 13:46 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 13:40 MysteryMeat1 wrote:On January 13 2013 12:14 convention wrote:On January 13 2013 11:02 Laneir wrote:
good on the infested terran nerf will be a game changer for end game
It won't change much, now instead of using mass infestor, zergs will just revert back to infestor/BL, which is still way too powerful of a composition given the ease at which you can transition to it. Although, at least infestor/BL only wants to make me stab my eyes out instead of slit my wrists, so I suppose it is an improvement. Man for PvZ though, the fact that many pre-hive pushes hit with very good upgrades, thats a lot of dps lost from non-upgraded ITS. I would also like broodlings to have air attack upgrades instead of melee but w/e It's a much more significant nerf than some people are giving it credit for in this thread as evidenced by how much noticeably weaker Infested Terrans are on beta. The absence of that additional DPS makes Stargate and Battlecruiser transitions MUCH more viable since ITs were overpowered anti-air for Zerg players that they didn't have to lose ground army supply for them.
That's because Hydras aren't really affective vs a mass of BC and if you mass corruptors you have a useless unit that can't hit ground.
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On January 13 2013 17:58 ZerglingFandango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 13:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 13 2013 13:40 MysteryMeat1 wrote:On January 13 2013 12:14 convention wrote:On January 13 2013 11:02 Laneir wrote:
good on the infested terran nerf will be a game changer for end game
It won't change much, now instead of using mass infestor, zergs will just revert back to infestor/BL, which is still way too powerful of a composition given the ease at which you can transition to it. Although, at least infestor/BL only wants to make me stab my eyes out instead of slit my wrists, so I suppose it is an improvement. Man for PvZ though, the fact that many pre-hive pushes hit with very good upgrades, thats a lot of dps lost from non-upgraded ITS. I would also like broodlings to have air attack upgrades instead of melee but w/e It's a much more significant nerf than some people are giving it credit for in this thread as evidenced by how much noticeably weaker Infested Terrans are on beta. The absence of that additional DPS makes Stargate and Battlecruiser transitions MUCH more viable since ITs were overpowered anti-air for Zerg players that they didn't have to lose ground army supply for them. That's because Hydras aren't really affective vs a mass of BC and if you mass corruptors you have a useless unit that can't hit ground.
It's not useless if the enemy has battlecruisers ? O_o
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On January 13 2013 18:24 Apolo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 17:58 ZerglingFandango wrote:On January 13 2013 13:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 13 2013 13:40 MysteryMeat1 wrote:On January 13 2013 12:14 convention wrote:On January 13 2013 11:02 Laneir wrote:
good on the infested terran nerf will be a game changer for end game
It won't change much, now instead of using mass infestor, zergs will just revert back to infestor/BL, which is still way too powerful of a composition given the ease at which you can transition to it. Although, at least infestor/BL only wants to make me stab my eyes out instead of slit my wrists, so I suppose it is an improvement. Man for PvZ though, the fact that many pre-hive pushes hit with very good upgrades, thats a lot of dps lost from non-upgraded ITS. I would also like broodlings to have air attack upgrades instead of melee but w/e It's a much more significant nerf than some people are giving it credit for in this thread as evidenced by how much noticeably weaker Infested Terrans are on beta. The absence of that additional DPS makes Stargate and Battlecruiser transitions MUCH more viable since ITs were overpowered anti-air for Zerg players that they didn't have to lose ground army supply for them. That's because Hydras aren't really affective vs a mass of BC and if you mass corruptors you have a useless unit that can't hit ground. It's not useless if the enemy has battlecruisers ? O_o
hydras are actually useless vs battlecruisers. They are supposed to be the zerg's GtA unit but it's rubbish.
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On January 13 2013 10:00 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 08:50 Integra wrote:On January 13 2013 07:13 Mavvie wrote:No close positions entombed and antiga? Now 30% of my games aren't instant losses! Woohoo! But seriously, I wish these changes happened earlier. Either way, I'm very happy that they're listening to the community and doing what's been asked of them! Sure, it's a little late, but better late than never!  I have to admitt that it was pretty funny to play Antiga Shipyard as Terran against Zerg with close spawn since it meant that you could sit in your main base and use tanks to hit Zerg when he tried to expand to his second natural. How the fuck did that even make sense? You can actually siege up and hit Zerg's second natural from your own godammn main base. Funnily enough Roaches drops or Mutalisks come way faster and Zerg can siege your main base or your third 5 seconds after he's done morphing his Broodlords at his third or in his main, not to mention how he's instantly in your bases if you ever lose a fight. Funny how things are not so one-dimensional, eh?
I was referring to the stupidity of the map and yes there are more than one fucked up scenario on that map, my point was that the map is fucking terrible, not what race is more imbalaced.
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Finally - 4 months of a very promising game, before we switch to HotS ......
Im both very exited and happy, but also a bit anxious about whats waits for us at hots release.
Entombed close position gone? YEEEEEEEEEEES
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just replace infestors fungal with something new
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Blizzard is working for us, and we shoul apreciate AND THANK all that good effort =)
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Ehh a solid fix by blizzard finally.
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On January 14 2013 02:25 Jacopana wrote:
Blizzard is working for us, and we shoul apreciate AND THANK all that good effort =)
really? Blizzard are not doing shit correct. I'm usually against whining about blizzard, but this time they are completely retarded.
Their reasoning for the changes are simply not true, they did not change the spawn positions because it is confusing - well what about the blizzard created Shakuras Plateau?!
Their reasoning for the IT nerf is also completely retarded. They apparently havent realised that the biggest problem with the IT's is in ZvT vs a meching terran, where the upgrades on IT does not really matter.
Christ people, you should not be so happy about blizzard, they have proven to be incompetent once again.
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Blizzard, in the end, does not dissapoint :D.
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On January 13 2013 20:59 Henk wrote:hydras are actually useless vs battlecruisers. They are supposed to be the zerg's GtA unit but it's rubbish.
They're not mobile as in HotS and too expensive that's it
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On January 14 2013 03:11 Steglich wrote:
They apparently havent realised that the biggest problem with the IT's is in ZvT vs a meching terran, where the upgrades on IT does not really matter.
Oh yes it does, both vs mech and air units, no idea why you would pretend otherwise.
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On January 14 2013 03:39 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 03:11 Steglich wrote:
They apparently havent realised that the biggest problem with the IT's is in ZvT vs a meching terran, where the upgrades on IT does not really matter. Oh yes it does, both vs mech and air units, no idea why you would pretend otherwise.
it has such a small impact that it does not really matter. this change will not have any relevance in 99% of engagements in ZvT.
It just does not matter when you have 25 infestors, it means energy for 200 infested terrans which will rip through tanks and thors no problem.
A unupgraded IT does 8 damage, thats equivalent to a +2 Marine.
EDIT: I should be more clear on my point. Sure it will have a significance in engagements, but it is far from enough. Mass infestors will still counter mech without a problem.
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On January 13 2013 17:58 ZerglingFandango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 13:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 13 2013 13:40 MysteryMeat1 wrote:On January 13 2013 12:14 convention wrote:On January 13 2013 11:02 Laneir wrote:
good on the infested terran nerf will be a game changer for end game
It won't change much, now instead of using mass infestor, zergs will just revert back to infestor/BL, which is still way too powerful of a composition given the ease at which you can transition to it. Although, at least infestor/BL only wants to make me stab my eyes out instead of slit my wrists, so I suppose it is an improvement. Man for PvZ though, the fact that many pre-hive pushes hit with very good upgrades, thats a lot of dps lost from non-upgraded ITS. I would also like broodlings to have air attack upgrades instead of melee but w/e It's a much more significant nerf than some people are giving it credit for in this thread as evidenced by how much noticeably weaker Infested Terrans are on beta. The absence of that additional DPS makes Stargate and Battlecruiser transitions MUCH more viable since ITs were overpowered anti-air for Zerg players that they didn't have to lose ground army supply for them. That's because Hydras aren't really affective vs a mass of BC and if you mass corruptors you have a useless unit that can't hit ground.
That's my whole point.
It makes transitioning into air units actually viable because then it puts the Zerg player in the same position Protoss and Terrans are in when the Zerg goes into Broodlords, do you over-commit to anti-air and sacrifice ground army supply in case of a tech switch into Ultralisks or do you under-commit and die to the air units?
Infestors right now take the guess work out of that because they supply ample anti-air baseline without losing anything in terms of fighting ground troops. Take the upgrades on the ITs away and they become far less effective vs late game heavily armored air units like the Battlecruiser and Carrier which forces a heavier commitment into corruptors.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Map changes is fucking awesome.
Still hoping for fungal nerf
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I would like this for broodlings... D:
Great change.
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On January 13 2013 17:58 ZerglingFandango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 13:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 13 2013 13:40 MysteryMeat1 wrote:On January 13 2013 12:14 convention wrote:On January 13 2013 11:02 Laneir wrote:
good on the infested terran nerf will be a game changer for end game
It won't change much, now instead of using mass infestor, zergs will just revert back to infestor/BL, which is still way too powerful of a composition given the ease at which you can transition to it. Although, at least infestor/BL only wants to make me stab my eyes out instead of slit my wrists, so I suppose it is an improvement. Man for PvZ though, the fact that many pre-hive pushes hit with very good upgrades, thats a lot of dps lost from non-upgraded ITS. I would also like broodlings to have air attack upgrades instead of melee but w/e It's a much more significant nerf than some people are giving it credit for in this thread as evidenced by how much noticeably weaker Infested Terrans are on beta. The absence of that additional DPS makes Stargate and Battlecruiser transitions MUCH more viable since ITs were overpowered anti-air for Zerg players that they didn't have to lose ground army supply for them. That's because Hydras aren't really affective vs a mass of BC and if you mass corruptors you have a useless unit that can't hit ground.
If you're worried about ground I suggest you then morph them into broodlords.
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Slightly off topic. For us plat- and below noobs who don't know what maps have specific spawn rules, is there a good way to find out, other than reading up on every ladder map in Liquipedia? It's not like it does much for timing attacks and whatnot, but it might at least make the difference between getting a scout in before a walloff, or being locked out.
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On January 13 2013 17:48 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 17:42 Sumadin wrote:On January 13 2013 17:29 vthree wrote:On January 13 2013 17:11 usethis2 wrote:On January 13 2013 07:26 SiroKO wrote:
I would like to mention the myths of Zerg cost-unefectiveness and need of an OP infestor to stand a chance against Terran/Protoss. In fact, these are the 2 faces of the same "troll coin", since Zerg has now the most bases and the best macro capabilities coupled with the most cost-effective unit of the game.
That wasn't myth at all. I had seen countless games where Z loses to mass 3/3 marines or mass 3/0 pure blink stalkers prior to Infestor buff. I still think the problem with Infestor is the infested terrans. Without infested terrans, I don't see the reason Z will make more than 10 infestors in any given game. If I watch today's games, most infestor energy goes to infested terrans other than some clutch fungals. Still, rolling out a knee-jerk patch right before the launch of a sequel that will screw over players so that Blizzard can have a better PR pitch seems morally wrong. It is not a knee-jerk patch. If anything, their previous patch did very little (too little). Honestly, I think they should just revert back to pre Queen patch. I think the maps have gotten big enough that early game timings aren't really an issue anymore. It wasn't Early game timings as much as Hellions running driving around in circles around the queens. Without being able to reach them creep was getting denied constantly making the follow up timings hard. And it is generally hard to balance a unit matchup when one of the units can't reach the other. And zergs could build a bunch of lings or some roaches to stop the hellions. You just pointed out the problem, zergs now don't have to make units in the early game making them able to drone up. And with the creep spread, now timings are near impossible.
That's the problem with the average Zerg player's mentality. Is the belief that they should be able to drone up to 80 and have 3 early bases while only building a handful of zerglings, a spine or two, and their queens to counter every kind of early game aggression possible. That SHOULD be considered playing as greedy as triple CC Terran which all ins obviously destroy if controlled right, but now there is no such thing as playing "greedy" with Zerg provided you build enough queens. Queens should be the counter to air, not ground.
If I push into your base with like 12 blue flame hellions and all you have are 5 queens, a spine and 10 zerglings. Then you deserve to lose nearly all your workers. Right now that isn't even a problem when it should be a big threat. If a Terran runs up your ramp where all you have are 5 queens when he has like 15 marines, it's pathetic to watch the Terran lose all of his marines without a single loss of queens (because of transfuse), this means that there is a fucking problem (not saying transfuse is the problem). Queens shouldn't be used to beat early game ground aggression, Zerg have roaches and zerglings for that.
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On January 12 2013 18:58 n0ise wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 17:36 RaiZ wrote:On January 12 2013 10:19 Xpace wrote:
"We've held off on these changes until now primarily because we thought having different sets of hidden start location rules for each map might be confusing to lower level players."
"At this point we feel that most StarCraft II players have a solid understanding of starting locations on each map."
Wait, what? Dunno if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll take the serious' one : maps like shakuras and metalopolis comes to mind when they had 3 starting position instead of 4 (Shakuras is horizontal spawns only, Metalo it was either in your side or cross position, both never had the closest spawning positions (except on the very first seasons)). You Can CLEARLY MARK The starting positions On the loading screen Or even write something like "Cross position only"
Wait what ? Sure that works for the next Entombed valley's map if the patch go live. But how would you have explained if maps like shakuras were still in ? Cross position wouldn't cut it. Afaik there are 4 starting positions on the loading screen for shakuras. If you wanted to "mark" them then you would have needed to mark only 2 and on the right places (unless you wanted to make that map cross position only aswell).
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EPT
