Get #thePULSE on eSports! The North American Star League kicks off another exciting year of eSports with a new live show The Pulse this Sunday, January 13th at 7pm PST. The Pulse will be a regular show covering the latest topics, trends, and news in eSports.
Anchored by MrBitter, RotterdaM, Gretorp, and Frodan, the show will also feature hosts Clutch and Lauren. Of course, industry figureheads, personalities, professional gamers, and other surprise guests will join the discussion each episode. In addition to the engaging discussion, The Pulse will also feature news updates, interviews, and other special segments.
Throughout each episode, the NASL crew will engage with the audience to check their pulse on the topics. In addition to Facebook and Twitter interaction, viewers will be encouraged to vote in chat on various topics, akin to the in-chat betting featured in NASL Season 4.
To watch The Pulse, check out NASL.tv or visit NASLTV on Twitch. To join the conversation, tweet @NASLTV with the hashtag #ThePulse. Also, check out NASL on Facebook for pre-show polls and chances to win StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm beta keys.
Sweet. Nice to see that the spur of the moment roundtable talks that the NASL team did last season has morphed into a full-fledged show. Looking forward to tuning in.
Oh my yes, you guys should do a section where Gretorp talks about strategy and gaming at a high leveI. Something along lings of what Day9 was doing towards the end of his stay on STOG. Basically I want more Gretorp knowledge.
Friday @ 10pm, I'll tune in for sure! I hope they bring up the subject of map pools in one of their episodes, it'd be nice to get all their thoughts on that.
On January 10 2013 09:57 jcroisdale wrote: Oh my yes, you guys should do a section where Gretorp talks about strategy and gaming at a high leveI. Something along lings of what Day9 was doing towards the end of his stay on STOG. Basically I want more Gretorp knowledge.
Agree. Some of the stuff Gretorp says during casts are absolutely mind blowing. Just little tidbits of information about the game that you didn't know, or secret tactics it seems like he only knows.
Please limit the amount of lauren elise. I know I'm not the only one who presses the mute button every time she opens her mouth.... I know this sounds mean but its the truth.
Other than that looking forward to the show! Big ups to NASL for consistently producing great content!!
Are the VODs for this going to be free? I always like watching these talk show/podcasts (The GD Show, Climbing the Ladder), but I rarely, if ever, catch them live.
Ahh interesting. I stopped watching SC2 but still catch SOTG and ITG so definitely want to check this out if it goes on youtube or MP3 available to download.
On January 11 2013 14:10 ssxsilver wrote: Are the VODs for this going to be free? I always like watching these talk show/podcasts (The GD Show, Climbing the Ladder), but I rarely, if ever, catch them live.
VOD will be free on our youtube: youtube.com/nastarleague
Like others have said...With no SOTG and ITG at the moment, a big market is open for shows like this, and with NASL production...this should be great! I hope you don't talk too much about Drama in E-Sports though to much, and more about up coming tournaments and interviews with pro gamers!
Will have to catch VODs of these as its on 3am monday morning xD
On January 11 2013 14:10 ssxsilver wrote: Are the VODs for this going to be free? I always like watching these talk show/podcasts (The GD Show, Climbing the Ladder), but I rarely, if ever, catch them live.
VOD will be free on our youtube: youtube.com/nastarleague
On January 11 2013 14:10 ssxsilver wrote: Are the VODs for this going to be free? I always like watching these talk show/podcasts (The GD Show, Climbing the Ladder), but I rarely, if ever, catch them live.
VOD will be free on our youtube: youtube.com/nastarleague
Throughout each episode, the NASL crew will engage with the audience to check their pulse on the topics.
Well played! Looking forward to the first episode. Considering the amount of content with a similar premise, I'm curious if this show will really bring something new to the table.
My problem is that it might feel like any other NASl broadcast, since they normally talk about everything in the regular broadcast anyway. Maybe some host mixups would freshen it up.
Lookin forward to this. Not only do enjoy and value these guy's opinions but there has been such a lack of ITG and SoTG that we need some quality talk shows and I have no doubt that NASL will deliver full force =)
I'd really like them to discuss Proleague Winners' League being best of 9 instead of best of 7. It would reward teams for their depth, and add to the strategy of deploying different players.
I would tweet this at them, but I don't have Twitter.
This is so good. Having everyone in the same room is just 10x better than the Skype/talking head shows. Plus there's great chemistry between them.
I love the GD Show, but its Starcraft knowledge is really lacking, so this is a good supplement to my e-sports watching schedule with the live setting and all.
Don't get why they compare Proleague with individual tournaments regarding bo1 format. It's just two completely different things in my opinion. I think they took the wrong angle on that topic.
Edit: I wouldn't even call PL a bo1 format, it's a team bo7
Excellent show. 20 times better than stog, even though there is no artosis or day9. I honestly felt like i was watching a sports program on espn. This shit is real.
My hat is off to the NASL crew, seriously some of the best personalities and casters in the business, as well as really informative and engaging, without the "strings" of a serious cast.
Ben, Kevin, Dan, Andre, Josh, (and of course Lauren Elise), thanks for doing this!
Sounds really cool from what I've heard, have yet to see it though. I hope they kinda go over similar topics like SotG did. I miss SotG, especially because they discussed balance things, tournaments and other stuff.
On January 14 2013 22:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Sounds really cool from what I've heard, have yet to see it though. I hope they kinda go over similar topics like SotG did. I miss SotG, especially because they discussed balance things, tournaments and other stuff.
Much more entertaining than stog imo, even without day9/artosis ( i know, blasphemy ). Check out the vod or w/e.
Missed the announcement but a lot of people were talking about this on twitter. Watched 30min so far and this looks really promising show. I love the live settings and camerawork.
I am watching the VOD I am currently at 1:55 and the show is just wow. First of all, they look like they genuinely enjoy discussing the topics that come up. They have intelligent video segments. They do research and interview people. Do you want to find out what Polt has to say about TSL disbanding? Watch this show.
I don't know, but somehow I think that none of MrBitter, RotterdaM, Gretorp, Frodan, Clutch, and Lauren are really qualified to talk about the Korean scene. None of them stayed in Korea for an extended period of time and none of them played at a internationally high competitive level. But I'm obviously open for corrections. Definitely tuning in.
edit: meant checking out the vods, as the show seems to be already finished.
On January 14 2013 23:51 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know, but somehow I think that none of MrBitter, RotterdaM, Gretorp, Frodan, Clutch, and Lauren are really qualified to talk about the Korean scene. None of them stayed in Korea for an extended period of time and none of them played at a internationally high competitive level. But I'm obviously open for corrections. Definitely tuning in.
edit: meant checking out the vods, as the show seems to be already finished.
That's true, but what I especially liked was that they interviewed people like Mana and Polt who did have Korean experiences.
Overall great show, and very professional by Esports standards
Just remember folks, if you listen to the MP3, to give the VOD a play through so NALS gets the views. You don't need to watch it again, but remember to support the show if you enjoyed it through some alternative means.
Not so updated information on all the news. - A lot of TSL members was made aware of that TSL would close down. Players didn't have salary and even had to pay to keep the house alive at some points. - Parting left ST because they wouldn't pay him a higher salary, same with Squirtle. You speculated if it was because of the $$ but the info was out there. - JD is on loan but if T8 gets a sponsor he will still remain until the end period of his contract. (Bitter hinted at he would leave EG as soon as T8 finds a sponsor) - KeSPAs relation with OGN, OGN are now only broadcasting PL on Sat/Sun and left out the other days, because they want to focus on LoL instead of SC2. - KeSPA players can only attend MLG because of their contract(outside of Korea), if they want to go to another event they have to talk with MLG.
The HUGE lower UI bar covering up a lot when showing in game footage, hell it takes up 1/8 of the screen. http://i.imgur.com/RfljO.jpg <- I mean why douse it have to be this big? 0o
Interact more with chat, you missed some info that was given to you via there. Don't know if Lauren is the right person for this and it felt weird having her in the corner laughing.
Bo1 vs BoX, majority Team Leagues with Bo1, maybe a reason? Clutch was making a point for it but it felt like it was ignored that it was TEAM leagues that had bo1 format. Hell how would a Team league look if there was a bo3? :s
Missed some pretty big team news like Col and Fnatic closing down their team houses. Axiom opening up a team house.
The Good
Love that you actually have all 5 and Lauren sitting at the same desk. The interaction, discussion and camera angels feels so much better.
All the different personalities!
The inside scoop and info you get because of your status as casters and organizes. That you include relevant media with your topic. Short movies of the HOTS changes, pictures of players etc.
The "breaking news" of Parting. --------
All in all I enjoyed the show and will for sure stay up here in Sweden to watch. Would have been fun to know why KeSPA banned talking ingame + Show Spoiler +
On January 15 2013 04:18 Tobblish wrote: Some feedback.
Please try to have people that are UPDATED on the scene. There was a lot of talks especially with Parting and his situation and other segments where a lot of info was left out. Info thats easy to gather, just go to /r/starcraft or this forum and everything is here.
I hate listening to sc2 talkshows with people thats not updated at all and then discuss the topics without all info.
@the bo1 vs bo3/etc format Did it even occur to you that the majority of leagues that have a bo1 format IS FREAKING TEAM LEAGUES?! I was at the point to smash my screen that no one made that statement.
Feel free to PM me and have me direct via Skype Message so you can stay 100% updated and cover every singe detail.
Edit; Even if you had the BREAKING NEWS with Parting it obligatory to include something like that.
Why didn't you talk about the close down of Fnatic and Col Team Houses?
Wow, I don’t know which is better, if this guy is a troll or if he is 100% serious.
NASL, feel free to PM or skype me and so I can make sure you know that I don’t give a shit if you are 100% accurate on every little detail coming out of Korea. Also, feel free to only talk about anything you want, no need to cover every piece of news out there.
On January 15 2013 04:18 Tobblish wrote: Some feedback.
Please try to have people that are UPDATED on the scene. There was a lot of talks especially with Parting and his situation and other segments where a lot of info was left out. Info thats easy to gather, just go to /r/starcraft or this forum and everything is here.
I hate listening to sc2 talkshows with people thats not updated at all and then discuss the topics without all info.
@the bo1 vs bo3/etc format Did it even occur to you that the majority of leagues that have a bo1 format IS FREAKING TEAM LEAGUES?! I was at the point to smash my screen that no one made that statement.
Feel free to PM me and have me direct via Skype Message so you can stay 100% updated and cover every singe detail.
Edit; Even if you had the BREAKING NEWS with Parting it obligatory to include something like that.
Why didn't you talk about the close down of Fnatic and Col Team Houses?
Wow, I don’t know which is better, if this guy is a troll or if he is 100% serious.
NASL, feel free to PM or skype me and so I can make sure you know that I don’t give a shit if you are 100% accurate on every little detail coming out of Korea. Also, feel free to only talk about anything you want, no need to cover every piece of news out there.
Don't know if you are serious lol. If you don't want accurate information why would you even listen to a news and talkshow? Sadly my memory is complete shit, if I had the desire to take notes of all the faults made I would have had a notepad open from the start but yeah... I'm not that desperate.
On January 15 2013 04:18 Tobblish wrote: Some feedback.
Please try to have people that are UPDATED on the scene. There was a lot of talks especially with Parting and his situation and other segments where a lot of info was left out. Info thats easy to gather, just go to /r/starcraft or this forum and everything is here.
I hate listening to sc2 talkshows with people thats not updated at all and then discuss the topics without all info.
@the bo1 vs bo3/etc format Did it even occur to you that the majority of leagues that have a bo1 format IS FREAKING TEAM LEAGUES?! I was at the point to smash my screen that no one made that statement.
Feel free to PM me and have me direct via Skype Message so you can stay 100% updated and cover every singe detail.
Edit; Even if you had the BREAKING NEWS with Parting it obligatory to include something like that.
Why didn't you talk about the close down of Fnatic and Col Team Houses?
Wow, I don’t know which is better, if this guy is a troll or if he is 100% serious.
NASL, feel free to PM or skype me and so I can make sure you know that I don’t give a shit if you are 100% accurate on every little detail coming out of Korea. Also, feel free to only talk about anything you want, no need to cover every piece of news out there.
Don't know if you are serious lol. If you don't want accurate information why would you even listen to a news and talkshow? Sadly my memory is complete shit, if I had the desire to take notes of the faults made I would have had a notepad open from the start but yeah... I'm not that desperate.
Gotta love cancer troll comments.. >_>
So wait, you're the one complaining about a clearly relaxed talkshow's inaccuracy, even going as far as to say that you yourself will keep the NASL team updated, and yet you can't be bothered to provide constructive, direct criticism because your "memory is complete shit"? I don't know what a cancer troll is, but let's hope you don't establish angiogenesis.
On January 15 2013 04:18 Tobblish wrote: Some feedback.
Please try to have people that are UPDATED on the scene. There was a lot of talks especially with Parting and his situation and other segments where a lot of info was left out. Info thats easy to gather, just go to /r/starcraft or this forum and everything is here.
I hate listening to sc2 talkshows with people thats not updated at all and then discuss the topics without all info.
@the bo1 vs bo3/etc format Did it even occur to you that the majority of leagues that have a bo1 format IS FREAKING TEAM LEAGUES?! I was at the point to smash my screen that no one made that statement.
Feel free to PM me and have me direct via Skype Message so you can stay 100% updated and cover every singe detail.
Edit; Even if you had the BREAKING NEWS with Parting it obligatory to include something like that.
Why didn't you talk about the close down of Fnatic and Col Team Houses?
Wow, I don’t know which is better, if this guy is a troll or if he is 100% serious.
NASL, feel free to PM or skype me and so I can make sure you know that I don’t give a shit if you are 100% accurate on every little detail coming out of Korea. Also, feel free to only talk about anything you want, no need to cover every piece of news out there.
Don't know if you are serious lol. If you don't want accurate information why would you even listen to a news and talkshow? Sadly my memory is complete shit, if I had the desire to take notes of the faults made I would have had a notepad open from the start but yeah... I'm not that desperate.
Gotta love cancer troll comments.. >_>
So wait, you're the one complaining about a clearly relaxed talkshow's inaccuracy, even going as far as to say that you yourself will keep the NASL team updated, and yet you can't be bothered to provide constructive, direct criticism because your "memory is complete shit"? I don't know what a cancer troll is, but let's hope you don't establish angiogenesis.
I will try to make you understand. If I'm not 100% focused (even then it's hard) I can't even remember the order of 5 random numbers.
edit: And having the show in the background while playing sc2, I can't remember every topic and it's minor flaws but when they add up or some specific info that wasn't mentioned it adds up and I can remember it. That and my English is pure shit..
On January 15 2013 04:18 Tobblish wrote: Some feedback.
Please try to have people that are UPDATED on the scene. There was a lot of talks especially with Parting and his situation and other segments where a lot of info was left out. Info thats easy to gather, just go to /r/starcraft or this forum and everything is here.
I hate listening to sc2 talkshows with people thats not updated at all and then discuss the topics without all info.
@the bo1 vs bo3/etc format Did it even occur to you that the majority of leagues that have a bo1 format IS FREAKING TEAM LEAGUES?! I was at the point to smash my screen that no one made that statement.
Feel free to PM me and have me direct via Skype Message so you can stay 100% updated and cover every singe detail.
Edit; Even if you had the BREAKING NEWS with Parting it obligatory to include something like that.
Why didn't you talk about the close down of Fnatic and Col Team Houses?
Wow, I don’t know which is better, if this guy is a troll or if he is 100% serious.
NASL, feel free to PM or skype me and so I can make sure you know that I don’t give a shit if you are 100% accurate on every little detail coming out of Korea. Also, feel free to only talk about anything you want, no need to cover every piece of news out there.
Don't know if you are serious lol. If you don't want accurate information why would you even listen to a news and talkshow? Sadly my memory is complete shit, if I had the desire to take notes of all the faults made I would have had a notepad open from the start but yeah... I'm not that desperate.
Gotta love cancer troll comments.. >_>
My response was mostly to the tone of the criticism, which I felt was overly aggressive and arrogant. Constructive criticism would have been:
“I enjoyed the show, but you missed a few facts when it came to the Parting story. Also, when discussing tournament formats, remember to keep in mind that it is a team league.”
Your response was nothing like that at all. You went so far as tell/order NASL to contact you so you could set their facts straight and assure they are 100% accurate, while providing no credentials that you are even qualified to do that. Although you may be qualified to do so, you made no effort to prove that and I felt the need to point that out.
And I watch shows to be entertained. If I want news, I will seek it out the details on my own time.
On January 15 2013 04:18 Tobblish wrote: Some feedback.
Please try to have people that are UPDATED on the scene. There was a lot of talks especially with Parting and his situation and other segments where a lot of info was left out. Info thats easy to gather, just go to /r/starcraft or this forum and everything is here.
I hate listening to sc2 talkshows with people thats not updated at all and then discuss the topics without all info.
@the bo1 vs bo3/etc format Did it even occur to you that the majority of leagues that have a bo1 format IS FREAKING TEAM LEAGUES?! I was at the point to smash my screen that no one made that statement.
Feel free to PM me and have me direct via Skype Message so you can stay 100% updated and cover every singe detail.
Edit; Even if you had the BREAKING NEWS with Parting it obligatory to include something like that.
Why didn't you talk about the close down of Fnatic and Col Team Houses?
Wow, I don’t know which is better, if this guy is a troll or if he is 100% serious.
NASL, feel free to PM or skype me and so I can make sure you know that I don’t give a shit if you are 100% accurate on every little detail coming out of Korea. Also, feel free to only talk about anything you want, no need to cover every piece of news out there.
Don't know if you are serious lol. If you don't want accurate information why would you even listen to a news and talkshow? Sadly my memory is complete shit, if I had the desire to take notes of all the faults made I would have had a notepad open from the start but yeah... I'm not that desperate.
Gotta love cancer troll comments.. >_>
The guy has a point man. You made a post claiming NASL wasn't updated on the facts and situation. It seems like you are simply nit picking. Its really easy to watch a show and then comment on what they said or didn't say and make it sound like a really simple problem but when your up there doing the show talking about as much content as they were things are going to be missed, looked over, and sometimes things will be miss stated or miss spoken. That's EVERY show. You think SOTG or ITG addresses every stance on every issue?
The hosts of the show are never going to be perfect I think they did an amazing job with the first episode.
One complaint I did have was the clash of themes i got from the show. on One side I got this ESPN feeling with the 2 desks and the panel of "experts" addressing topics in an organized professional way and that's awesome. One person who promotes the ESPN feel really well is clutch who really sounds like he deserves to be on ESPN show. But on the other hand I got this feeling more similar to SOTG one example Bitter constantly using the word hell. I have nothing wrong with the language at all but it just felt weird having language like that inserted into something that naturally felt very professional. That's just one example but my point is that the show seems to be replicating an ESPN way of doing a show but a few times there was injections of a different theme and it felt odd. Either be like SOTG or be like ESPN but combining both I don't really like. (of course just my opinion someone might disagree)
The only other issue i had was with Lauren. I liked the role she played but where she was seated sucked and felt weird for me as a viewer. The reason why that is is because she was constantly laughing and talking not during her part of the show and every time she wasn't in the shot. Basically what im trying to say is I have no problem with her out of the normal shot in the corner of the room but if thats going to be the case she shouldn't talk outside of her segment or at the very least have her be in the camera shot when talking.
So to sum it up the first episode was amazing but there just needs to be a little more clarity with the overall theme of the show and a little more clarity on Laurens role in the show. Is she there strictly for her segment or is she going to be a member of the normal discussion.
Awesome show , but keeping lauren right at the back out of view seemed a bit weird at least have her on the same desk maybe next to clutch so she doesnt seem like she doesnt want to be there and can participate in the jokes and conversations.
On January 15 2013 04:18 Tobblish wrote: Some feedback.
Please try to have people that are UPDATED on the scene. There was a lot of talks especially with Parting and his situation and other segments where a lot of info was left out. Info thats easy to gather, just go to /r/starcraft or this forum and everything is here.
I hate listening to sc2 talkshows with people thats not updated at all and then discuss the topics without all info.
@the bo1 vs bo3/etc format Did it even occur to you that the majority of leagues that have a bo1 format IS FREAKING TEAM LEAGUES?! I was at the point to smash my screen that no one made that statement.
Feel free to PM me and have me direct via Skype Message so you can stay 100% updated and cover every singe detail.
Edit; Even if you had the BREAKING NEWS with Parting it obligatory to include something like that.
Why didn't you talk about the close down of Fnatic and Col Team Houses?
Wow, I don’t know which is better, if this guy is a troll or if he is 100% serious.
NASL, feel free to PM or skype me and so I can make sure you know that I don’t give a shit if you are 100% accurate on every little detail coming out of Korea. Also, feel free to only talk about anything you want, no need to cover every piece of news out there.
Don't know if you are serious lol. If you don't want accurate information why would you even listen to a news and talkshow? Sadly my memory is complete shit, if I had the desire to take notes of all the faults made I would have had a notepad open from the start but yeah... I'm not that desperate.
Gotta love cancer troll comments.. >_>
The guy has a point man. You made a post claiming NASL wasn't updated on the facts and situation. It seems like you are simply nit picking. Its really easy to watch a show and then comment on what they said or didn't say and make it sound like a really simple problem but when your up there doing the show talking about as much content as they were things are going to be missed, looked over, and sometimes things will be miss stated or miss spoken. That's EVERY show. You think SOTG or ITG addresses every stance on every issue?
The hosts of the show are never going to be perfect I think they did an amazing job with the first episode.
One complaint I did have was the clash of themes i got from the show. on One side I got this ESPN feeling with the 2 desks and the panel of "experts" addressing topics in an organized professional way and that's awesome. One person who promotes the ESPN feel really well is clutch who really sounds like he deserves to be on ESPN show. But on the other hand I got this feeling more similar to SOTG one example Bitter constantly using the word hell. I have nothing wrong with the language at all but it just felt weird having language like that inserted into something that naturally felt very professional. That's just one example but my point is that the show seems to be replicating an ESPN way of doing a show but a few times there was injections of a different theme and it felt odd. Either be like SOTG or be like ESPN but combining both I don't really like. (of course just my opinion someone might disagree)
The only other issue i had was with Lauren. I liked the role she played but where she was seated sucked and felt weird for me as a viewer. The reason why that is is because she was constantly laughing and talking not during her part of the show and every time she wasn't in the shot. Basically what im trying to say is I have no problem with her out of the normal shot in the corner of the room but if thats going to be the case she shouldn't talk outside of her segment or at the very least have her be in the camera shot when talking.
So to sum it up the first episode was amazing but there just needs to be a little more clarity with the overall theme of the show and a little more clarity on Laurens role in the show. Is she there strictly for her segment or is she going to be a member of the normal discussion.
A lot of other shows, Chavman, SOTG, LO3, ITG, GDShow all study their chat so many "small" things like this don't pass by. (thats a thing they could work on) So no other shows actually covers it all pretty fully without missing valuable information.
Yes, it's terrible for me to write off my points like I did, makes no sense actually lol. Will edit it out for now and actually re watch it.
On January 15 2013 04:18 Tobblish wrote: Some feedback.
Please try to have people that are UPDATED on the scene. There was a lot of talks especially with Parting and his situation and other segments where a lot of info was left out. Info thats easy to gather, just go to /r/starcraft or this forum and everything is here.
I hate listening to sc2 talkshows with people thats not updated at all and then discuss the topics without all info.
@the bo1 vs bo3/etc format Did it even occur to you that the majority of leagues that have a bo1 format IS FREAKING TEAM LEAGUES?! I was at the point to smash my screen that no one made that statement.
Feel free to PM me and have me direct via Skype Message so you can stay 100% updated and cover every singe detail.
Edit; Even if you had the BREAKING NEWS with Parting it obligatory to include something like that.
Why didn't you talk about the close down of Fnatic and Col Team Houses?
Wow, I don’t know which is better, if this guy is a troll or if he is 100% serious.
NASL, feel free to PM or skype me and so I can make sure you know that I don’t give a shit if you are 100% accurate on every little detail coming out of Korea. Also, feel free to only talk about anything you want, no need to cover every piece of news out there.
Don't know if you are serious lol. If you don't want accurate information why would you even listen to a news and talkshow? Sadly my memory is complete shit, if I had the desire to take notes of all the faults made I would have had a notepad open from the start but yeah... I'm not that desperate.
Gotta love cancer troll comments.. >_>
The guy has a point man. You made a post claiming NASL wasn't updated on the facts and situation. It seems like you are simply nit picking. Its really easy to watch a show and then comment on what they said or didn't say and make it sound like a really simple problem but when your up there doing the show talking about as much content as they were things are going to be missed, looked over, and sometimes things will be miss stated or miss spoken. That's EVERY show. You think SOTG or ITG addresses every stance on every issue?
The hosts of the show are never going to be perfect I think they did an amazing job with the first episode.
One complaint I did have was the clash of themes i got from the show. on One side I got this ESPN feeling with the 2 desks and the panel of "experts" addressing topics in an organized professional way and that's awesome. One person who promotes the ESPN feel really well is clutch who really sounds like he deserves to be on ESPN show. But on the other hand I got this feeling more similar to SOTG one example Bitter constantly using the word hell. I have nothing wrong with the language at all but it just felt weird having language like that inserted into something that naturally felt very professional. That's just one example but my point is that the show seems to be replicating an ESPN way of doing a show but a few times there was injections of a different theme and it felt odd. Either be like SOTG or be like ESPN but combining both I don't really like. (of course just my opinion someone might disagree)
The only other issue i had was with Lauren. I liked the role she played but where she was seated sucked and felt weird for me as a viewer. The reason why that is is because she was constantly laughing and talking not during her part of the show and every time she wasn't in the shot. Basically what im trying to say is I have no problem with her out of the normal shot in the corner of the room but if thats going to be the case she shouldn't talk outside of her segment or at the very least have her be in the camera shot when talking.
So to sum it up the first episode was amazing but there just needs to be a little more clarity with the overall theme of the show and a little more clarity on Laurens role in the show. Is she there strictly for her segment or is she going to be a member of the normal discussion.
In keeping with this poster's train of thought, I think it might behoove the program to set up two distinctive camera shot set ups, one for the more formal news reporting and editorials, and the other for the more talkshow, free for all set up. For example, when Frodan started off on what he thought about foreigners competing in the GSL, it would have been nice for the shot to center and focus on only him, with him talking right into the camera, sort of like how major sports broadcasting "passes around the mic" during halftime/pregame/postgame discussion. Then, once a few anchors have given their monologues, zoom out and allow for a more general discussion. It might also make more sense for Lauren Elise to sit off to the side or behind the main camera, only to switch shots over to her every so often, sort of like how late night talkshows have the music guy to the side who butts in with a joke here and there. In any case, I'll keep watching
Checked out the vod. Insanely good show, really good discussion between the hosts. Very relaxed and everyone just felt very comfortable doing this. The background on TSL and Polt's interview were great touch. Echoing the audio podcast suggestion.
Some criticisms: the overhead camera angle needs to be changed, the low camera shots were good but the general overhead view of the 5 casters looked weird. Also Elise's location felt really out of place. She either needed to be part of the main desk (and contribute to the discussion) or further off to the side.
Not so updated information on all the news. - A lot of TSL members was made aware of that TSL would close down. Players didn't have salary and even had to pay to keep the house alive at some points. - Parting left ST because they wouldn't pay him a higher salary, same with Squirtle. You speculated if it was because of the $$ but the info was out there. - JD is on loan but if T8 gets a sponsor he will still remain until the end period of his contract. (Bitter hinted at he would leave EG as soon as T8 finds a sponsor) - KeSPAs relation with OGN, OGN are now only broadcasting PL on Sat/Sun and left out the other days, because they want to focus on LoL instead of SC2. - KeSPA players can only attend MLG because of their contract(outside of Korea), if they want to go to another event they have to talk with MLG.
The HUGE lower UI bar covering up a lot when showing in game footage, hell it takes up 1/8 of the screen. http://i.imgur.com/RfljO.jpg <- I mean why douse it have to be this big? 0o
Interact more with chat, you missed some info that was given to you via there. Don't know if Lauren is the right person for this and it felt weird having her in the corner laughing.
Bo1 vs BoX, majority Team Leagues with Bo1, maybe a reason? Clutch was making a point for it but it felt like it was ignored that it was TEAM leagues that had bo1 format. Hell how would a Team league look if there was a bo3? :s
Missed some pretty big team news like Col and Fnatic closing down their team houses. Axiom opening up a team house.
The Good
Love that you actually have all 5 and Lauren sitting at the same desk. The interaction, discussion and camera angels feels so much better.
All the different personalities!
The inside scoop and info you get because of your status as casters and organizes. That you include relevant media with your topic. Short movies of the HOTS changes, pictures of players etc.
The "breaking news" of Parting. --------
All in all I enjoyed the show and will for sure stay up here in Sweden to watch. Would have been fun to know why KeSPA banned talking ingame + Show Spoiler +
Players psyching players? ^^
When I read your first posts I thought you were dumb.
But this is very nicely formatted and you raise great points.
Thank you.
<3
Next show will be in two weeks, guys. I'll make sure we get an official mp3 version up somewhere, but it will be Wednesday/Thursday at the earliest.
-This was better for a first episode than i hoped and the NASL guys have shown us in the past that they respond to community feedback and have developed quite a good feeling themselves to where they can improve things. With the production value of a real studio this talk show offers something unique.
-I liked that the discussions didn't get out of hand, but i want to make you aware of that you shouldn't make the discussions feel scripted. For example i liked that little videos and pictures were shown, they added a lot actually, but when Clutch talked about baseball you showed a picture fitting to that topic and it made me wonder how much this show is actually scripted beforehands. I think it's important that you find the right balance between prepared content and lively authentic discussion.
-Lauren Elise was integrated in a strange way, i feel that everything she can contribute will run dry really quick in a few episodes. I'd much rather see one of the 5 guys take over the part of the community interaction, while stil giving his legit opinion on topics. You should try to invite interesting player personalities into the show, to give their opinion on things. Even though i believe that Gretorp, Bitter and Rotti can argue on a quite high level about race and pro gaming issues, the thoughts of a current professional gamer can have a value if he's got the personality to talk in such a show.
-If you're planning on doing this weekly, then there might not be as much to talk about as on this week, so be aware of how to fill that with content, since the duration of this weeks show was very good. I think having a guest on can fill things nicely, but talking about the big issues of E-Sports also has a place on The Pulse, since the acting persons have enough credibility and knowlegde to talk about this.
Overall a very sweet thing to give to the community, i hope it continues, improves and people appreciate it, because this definitly has a place in the SC2 scene!
Not so updated information on all the news. - A lot of TSL members was made aware of that TSL would close down. Players didn't have salary and even had to pay to keep the house alive at some points. - Parting left ST because they wouldn't pay him a higher salary, same with Squirtle. You speculated if it was because of the $$ but the info was out there. - JD is on loan but if T8 gets a sponsor he will still remain until the end period of his contract. (Bitter hinted at he would leave EG as soon as T8 finds a sponsor) - KeSPAs relation with OGN, OGN are now only broadcasting PL on Sat/Sun and left out the other days, because they want to focus on LoL instead of SC2. - KeSPA players can only attend MLG because of their contract(outside of Korea), if they want to go to another event they have to talk with MLG.
The HUGE lower UI bar covering up a lot when showing in game footage, hell it takes up 1/8 of the screen. http://i.imgur.com/RfljO.jpg <- I mean why douse it have to be this big? 0o
Interact more with chat, you missed some info that was given to you via there. Don't know if Lauren is the right person for this and it felt weird having her in the corner laughing.
Bo1 vs BoX, majority Team Leagues with Bo1, maybe a reason? Clutch was making a point for it but it felt like it was ignored that it was TEAM leagues that had bo1 format. Hell how would a Team league look if there was a bo3? :s
Missed some pretty big team news like Col and Fnatic closing down their team houses. Axiom opening up a team house.
The Good
Love that you actually have all 5 and Lauren sitting at the same desk. The interaction, discussion and camera angels feels so much better.
All the different personalities!
The inside scoop and info you get because of your status as casters and organizes. That you include relevant media with your topic. Short movies of the HOTS changes, pictures of players etc.
The "breaking news" of Parting. --------
All in all I enjoyed the show and will for sure stay up here in Sweden to watch. Would have been fun to know why KeSPA banned talking ingame + Show Spoiler +
Players psyching players? ^^
When I read your first posts I thought you were dumb.
But this is very nicely formatted and you raise great points.
Thank you.
<3
Next show will be in two weeks, guys. I'll make sure we get an official mp3 version up somewhere, but it will be Wednesday/Thursday at the earliest.
On January 17 2013 01:28 TigerKarl wrote: -This was better for a first episode than i hoped and the NASL guys have shown us in the past that they respond to community feedback and have developed quite a good feeling themselves to where they can improve things. With the production value of a real studio this talk show offers something unique.
-I liked that the discussions didn't get out of hand, but i want to make you aware of that you shouldn't make the discussions feel scripted. For example i liked that little videos and pictures were shown, they added a lot actually, but when Clutch talked about baseball you showed a picture fitting to that topic and it made me wonder how much this show is actually scripted beforehands. I think it's important that you find the right balance between prepared content and lively authentic discussion.
-Lauren Elise was integrated in a strange way, i feel that everything she can contribute will run dry really quick in a few episodes. I'd much rather see one of the 5 guys take over the part of the community interaction, while stil giving his legit opinion on topics. You should try to invite interesting player personalities into the show, to give their opinion on things. Even though i believe that Gretorp, Bitter and Rotti can argue on a quite high level about race and pro gaming issues, the thoughts of a current professional gamer can have a value if he's got the personality to talk in such a show.
-If you're planning on doing this weekly, then there might not be as much to talk about as on this week, so be aware of how to fill that with content, since the duration of this weeks show was very good. I think having a guest on can fill things nicely, but talking about the big issues of E-Sports also has a place on The Pulse, since the acting persons have enough credibility and knowlegde to talk about this.
Overall a very sweet thing to give to the community, i hope it continues, improves and people appreciate it, because this definitly has a place in the SC2 scene!
Re: Scripting - The show is scripted in that we know what the bullet points we are going to touch before we start. To use your example, I knew that Clutch would make the baseball reference to Proleague beforehand. What I did not know, was what other points he would make. In other words, the questions, and to some extent, the major rebuttal points are known beforehand, but the conversation is completely candid.
- We're looking for better ways to use Lauren. Expect some new fresh stuff from her in future episodes.
- Weekly might be a bit of a strain. Right now our plan is bi-weekly. If we can do more, we will. Time will ultimately determine how often we try and produce the show.
Not so updated information on all the news. - A lot of TSL members was made aware of that TSL would close down. Players didn't have salary and even had to pay to keep the house alive at some points. - Parting left ST because they wouldn't pay him a higher salary, same with Squirtle. You speculated if it was because of the $$ but the info was out there. - JD is on loan but if T8 gets a sponsor he will still remain until the end period of his contract. (Bitter hinted at he would leave EG as soon as T8 finds a sponsor) - KeSPAs relation with OGN, OGN are now only broadcasting PL on Sat/Sun and left out the other days, because they want to focus on LoL instead of SC2. - KeSPA players can only attend MLG because of their contract(outside of Korea), if they want to go to another event they have to talk with MLG.
The HUGE lower UI bar covering up a lot when showing in game footage, hell it takes up 1/8 of the screen. http://i.imgur.com/RfljO.jpg <- I mean why douse it have to be this big? 0o
Interact more with chat, you missed some info that was given to you via there. Don't know if Lauren is the right person for this and it felt weird having her in the corner laughing.
Bo1 vs BoX, majority Team Leagues with Bo1, maybe a reason? Clutch was making a point for it but it felt like it was ignored that it was TEAM leagues that had bo1 format. Hell how would a Team league look if there was a bo3? :s
Missed some pretty big team news like Col and Fnatic closing down their team houses. Axiom opening up a team house.
The Good
Love that you actually have all 5 and Lauren sitting at the same desk. The interaction, discussion and camera angels feels so much better.
All the different personalities!
The inside scoop and info you get because of your status as casters and organizes. That you include relevant media with your topic. Short movies of the HOTS changes, pictures of players etc.
The "breaking news" of Parting. --------
All in all I enjoyed the show and will for sure stay up here in Sweden to watch. Would have been fun to know why KeSPA banned talking ingame + Show Spoiler +
Players psyching players? ^^
When I read your first posts I thought you were dumb.
But this is very nicely formatted and you raise great points.
Thank you.
<3
Next show will be in two weeks, guys. I'll make sure we get an official mp3 version up somewhere, but it will be Wednesday/Thursday at the earliest.
You know I went through the comments first to see what kind of feedback people were giving before watching. I'm glad to say I didn't start watching. If you guys are going to do a news show it's kind of important to get your facts straight. I don't want to sound like an ass but it sort of defeats the purpose because you would be giving people false information which is a pretty big no-no. You read his comment and thought he was dumb... I want to know why exactly? From reading the bad section the guy was right on point when it came to the facts. Sounds like he's been paying more attention to forums whereas you guys have been busy doing your thing. At least have someone check the facts prior to the discussion. Use crypt notes. You guys don't have to do it yourselves. Delegate it to one person who has a good filter and checks the scene regularly. Shit. Tobblish sounds like a good candidate from his breakdowns from what I read. You need to have a good filter and know what's fact and fiction. Everyone needs to be on the same page.
*
As for Tobblish,
- I've seen the chat rooms before and they're horrendous with trolls. Sure some people might provide useful information, but often than not? Noooo. Like I said delegate one person to track topics and who can get to the heart of the matter.
- Best of One's are used in team leagues because of time constraints. It would simply run too long and considering OGN broadcasts PL on certain days. TV format demands it.
*
I'll comment on the good when I have time to tune in.
Really enjoy the show and feels like its what I'm looking for, actual discussion about starcraft throughout. Its also great that everyone is chipping in instead of one speaker doing 50% of all the talking. Hopefully this show can be sustained and more people will find out about it.
The show was phenomenal. Loved it. Please do another one soon.
I would suggest that you make it a little shorter. Like maybe 45 minutes tops? You may run out of things to talk about if you try to do a 2+ hr show every week.
This was what Starcraft needed. maybe do a espn sports ticker thing on the bottom with results of the weeks starcraft events. a podcast fersure. just keep doing this and making it better with each week!!
On January 27 2013 08:09 NASL.tv wrote: Updated with Archive section and new episode information! Podcast information will be up soon, just finalizing details.
Awesome! Been waiting for episode 2 since the first one aired haha.
Looking forward to the show I enjoyed it last time! Last week you discussed if the TL broodwar league would be a success. Any chance you can follow up on how successful you think it has been based on the number of viewers we've seen so far? Right now it is 6k and I would like to know if industry people consider that a success or failure.
On January 28 2013 08:44 coolcor wrote: Looking forward to the show I enjoyed it last time! Last week you discussed if the TL broodwar league would be a success. Any chance you can follow up on how successful you think it has been based on the number of viewers we've seen so far? Right now it is 6k and I would like to know if industry people consider that a success or failure.
I can't imagine how anybody could possibly consider it a failure.
SO EXCITED FOR TONIGHT! It's great to see you guys taking feedback from the first episode and covering topics that we suggested. Can't wait for the team house segment. p.s. hope you guys don't go too hard on that viking in the hots cinematic ):
hey guys just wanna say i watched the first episode on youtube (thank you for putting it on youtube btw) and wanna say good job on the preparation. Show was very smooth and had good content.
I love NASL production quality, but let's question ourselves: is Frodan's insight on sc2 even remotely valuable? should Rotterdam with his terrible accent be a talk show host? what the hell is clutch even doing in there? the only one of these who can be taken seriously is Gretorp. I have no doubt that they will have fancy graphics and animations and good guests, but if they plan to take this seriously, it will be a joke compared to a different talk show that is hosted by 4 pro gamers (all of them with good pronounciation). it might be good if they try to make it comical.
On January 28 2013 10:41 totauksz wrote: I love NASL production quality, but let's question ourselves: is Frodan's insight on sc2 even remotely valuable? should Rotterdam with his terrible accent be a talk show host? what the hell is clutch even doing in there? the only one of these who can be taken seriously is Gretorp. I have no doubt that they will have fancy graphics and animations and good guests, but if they plan to take this seriously, it will be a joke compared to a different talk show that is hosted by 4 pro gamers (all of them with good pronounciation). it might be good if they try to make it comical.
On January 28 2013 10:41 totauksz wrote: I love NASL production quality, but let's question ourselves: is Frodan's insight on sc2 even remotely valuable? should Rotterdam with his terrible accent be a talk show host? what the hell is clutch even doing in there? the only one of these who can be taken seriously is Gretorp. I have no doubt that they will have fancy graphics and animations and good guests, but if they plan to take this seriously, it will be a joke compared to a different talk show that is hosted by 4 pro gamers (all of them with good pronounciation). it might be good if they try to make it comical.
On January 28 2013 10:41 totauksz wrote: I love NASL production quality, but let's question ourselves: is Frodan's insight on sc2 even remotely valuable? should Rotterdam with his terrible accent be a talk show host? what the hell is clutch even doing in there? the only one of these who can be taken seriously is Gretorp. I have no doubt that they will have fancy graphics and animations and good guests, but if they plan to take this seriously, it will be a joke compared to a different talk show that is hosted by 4 pro gamers (all of them with good pronounciation). it might be good if they try to make it comical.
I agree, get these foreigners out of here. This is the North 'MERICAN Star League.
On January 28 2013 10:41 totauksz wrote: I love NASL production quality, but let's question ourselves: is Frodan's insight on sc2 even remotely valuable? should Rotterdam with his terrible accent be a talk show host? what the hell is clutch even doing in there? the only one of these who can be taken seriously is Gretorp. I have no doubt that they will have fancy graphics and animations and good guests, but if they plan to take this seriously, it will be a joke compared to a different talk show that is hosted by 4 pro gamers (all of them with good pronounciation). it might be good if they try to make it comical.
Wait, are you serious?
Frodan has shown incredible improvement in his casting/analysis, and being chosen at the recent IPL5 just shows that he has the respect of producers and tournament folks.
Clutch is a great host, has good esports connections, and even though SC2 isn't maybe the game he's the most knowledgeable in, the rest of the casters have been lauding him from day one because he's increased the production value of NASL.
I don't understand why you can't understand Rotterdam ... but you're probably the kind of guy who makes fun of violet's English, despite violet's amazing self-taught skills and self-motivated learning.
I know they could improve a lot of different things about the show (I would say its length/format could use a lot of tweaking) but your criticisms seem a lot more like ad hominem attacks rather than attempts to improve their show and support entrepreneurial attempts to grow esports, which is like, The Topic Of The Moment.
Edit: thanks to TL mods for the warning ... appreciate how on top of everything y'all are.
On January 28 2013 10:41 totauksz wrote: I love NASL production quality, but let's question ourselves: is Frodan's insight on sc2 even remotely valuable? should Rotterdam with his terrible accent be a talk show host? what the hell is clutch even doing in there? the only one of these who can be taken seriously is Gretorp. I have no doubt that they will have fancy graphics and animations and good guests, but if they plan to take this seriously, it will be a joke compared to a different talk show that is hosted by 4 pro gamers (all of them with good pronounciation). it might be good if they try to make it comical.
Wait, are you serious?
Frodan has shown incredible improvement in his casting/analysis, and being chosen at the recent IPL5 just shows that he has the respect of producers and tournament folks.
Clutch is a great host, has good esports connections, and even though SC2 isn't maybe the game he's the most knowledgeable in, the rest of the casters have been lauding him from day one because he's increased the production value of NASL.
I don't understand why you can't understand Rotterdam ... but you're probably the kind of guy who makes fun of violet's English, despite violet's amazing self-taught skills and self-motivated learning.
I know they could improve a lot of different things about the show (I would say its length/format could use a lot of tweaking) but your criticisms seem a lot more like ad hominem attacks rather than attempts to improve their show and support entrepreneurial attempts to grow esports, which is like, The Topic Of The Moment.
Edit: thanks to TL mods for the warning ... appreciate how on top of everything y'all are.
you're full of fail.
Gretorp is the only one who is both good at the game and can speak clearly.
talk show hosts should be able to speak clearly, is this a hard concept to you? you like car racers who have bad sight? or marathon runners with limp? that comment about violet was really dumb. violet's job is not to TALK.
also thanking the mods for a warning lol? what kind of kissass are you?
I had no idea salaries were so high. I guess that with how short a progamer career can be and how much they give up in order to purse it it makes a bit of sense. However I am still impressed. Also, are caster really charing that much for an event? :O
On January 28 2013 10:41 totauksz wrote: I love NASL production quality, but let's question ourselves: is Frodan's insight on sc2 even remotely valuable? should Rotterdam with his terrible accent be a talk show host? what the hell is clutch even doing in there? the only one of these who can be taken seriously is Gretorp. I have no doubt that they will have fancy graphics and animations and good guests, but if they plan to take this seriously, it will be a joke compared to a different talk show that is hosted by 4 pro gamers (all of them with good pronounciation). it might be good if they try to make it comical.
Wait, are you serious?
Frodan has shown incredible improvement in his casting/analysis, and being chosen at the recent IPL5 just shows that he has the respect of producers and tournament folks.
Clutch is a great host, has good esports connections, and even though SC2 isn't maybe the game he's the most knowledgeable in, the rest of the casters have been lauding him from day one because he's increased the production value of NASL.
I don't understand why you can't understand Rotterdam ... but you're probably the kind of guy who makes fun of violet's English, despite violet's amazing self-taught skills and self-motivated learning.
I know they could improve a lot of different things about the show (I would say its length/format could use a lot of tweaking) but your criticisms seem a lot more like ad hominem attacks rather than attempts to improve their show and support entrepreneurial attempts to grow esports, which is like, The Topic Of The Moment.
Edit: thanks to TL mods for the warning ... appreciate how on top of everything y'all are.
you're full of fail.
Gretorp is the only one who is both good at the game and can speak clearly.
talk show hosts should be able to speak clearly, is this a hard concept to you? you like car racers who have bad sight? or marathon runners with limp? that comment about violet was really dumb. violet's job is not to TALK.
also thanking the mods for a warning lol? what kind of kissass are you?
you might want to buy new speakers, i can understand all of them perfectly
Disagree with the IronSquid part, it's just a different type of event. MLG for example is a tournament where players should be way above everything. IronSquid is a giant show with tons of entertainers involved, I don't think you should compare their style.
And the players were pretty well presented imho and treated probably better than anywhere else.
On January 28 2013 11:52 StarVe wrote: Disagree with the IronSquid part, it's just a different type of event. MLG for example is a tournament where players should be way above everything. IronSquid is a giant show with tons of entertainers involved, I don't think you should compare their style.
And the players were pretty well presented imho and treated probably better than anywhere else.
The caster intro makes sense as the French audience never sees any of them again for the rest of the show.
On January 28 2013 11:52 StarVe wrote: Disagree with the IronSquid part, it's just a different type of event. MLG for example is a tournament where players should be way above everything. IronSquid is a giant show with tons of entertainers involved, I don't think you should compare their style.
And the players were pretty well presented imho and treated probably better than anywhere else.
The caster intro makes sense as the French audience never sees any of them again for the rest of the show.
Yup, that too. I just didn't even feel like the casters were put in the spotlight as much, but then again, I mostly watched the French stream.
On January 28 2013 12:11 Dodgin wrote: It's Mvp obviously @_@ 4 GSL's to 2 and 8 premier tournament wins to 4
Half of which was with broken wrists, 2 of which came when his entire race was failing and he had to single-handidly revolutionize the matchups. Yeah being a showman is great, but this is a game of champions and the virtue which we place above all others is victory. MVP is that player.
On January 28 2013 12:13 Laryleprakon wrote: Mvp easily.
I wonder if they know that MC started living with the LG-IM guys, nice fact when they are talking about team houses.
They're having this discussion, when MC just said in his Code S interview a few days ago, that joining LG-IM team house made a huge difference for him.
What I like about this show [at least in this episode] is that by being in person, the conversation is so much fairer. It allows people to actually interact properly and in a way which allows people to expand on topics in a realistic fashion.
On January 28 2013 12:13 Laryleprakon wrote: Mvp easily.
I wonder if they know that MC started living with the LG-IM guys, nice fact when they are talking about team houses.
They're having this discussion, when MC just said in his Code S interview a few days ago, that joining LG-IM team house made a huge difference for him.
I think the topic is based more on foreign organizations, team houses obviously work for Korean teams.
I think a point that could have come up from the viability of team houses topic is:
-Do you have all serious players who are training for results and try to train them as a marketing tool to be marketed by the team (developing their personality, if they have one, and such).
OR
-Do you have a player or players who are not the best players but their marketing power/brand would be worth it, for instance a MaxiumusBlack type that is specifically called in for that purpose and nothing else.
the thing with this show is its basically sports center esq right? the dif is on sports center they have pro players, pro analysts, insiders to the business and years and years of exp.
i cringe when i listen to them discuss the business aspects of owning a team and being successful in esports because cmon, do any of them know anything about any of it....
i had a guy who repairs furniture come over the other day to give us a quote on the damage our new lab puppys did. when he saw the dogs he started giving us a "lesson" on the psychology of dogs and why they are how they are and more specifically the "exact" reasons why our dogs did what they did. needless to say everyone around when he was preaching this got very uncomfortable because hes the least qualified person to be telling us this next to ourselves and i feel the same way when watching this show
a side note... teamhouses are never worth it for a simple reason, pro gaming has no consistent money flow. you get money through sponsorship. you get sponsorship by showing up at tournys and doing well or getting large stream numbers. none of this requires a teamhouse and teamhouses detract from your ability to send players around more often. there is no more lan, if you're eg and your sponsored by a voice chat service then isnt a teamhouse kinda defeating the use of such a service? furthermore how often do these guys REALLY discuss "strats" with each other. be honest. its not much at all. they ladder all day. the purpose of being in a teamhouse is to get BETTER practice then other players or motivation. if your not motivated to practice on your own then you shouldnt be a pro gamer
On January 28 2013 13:05 sunglasseson wrote: the thing with this show is its basically sports center esq right? the dif is on sports center they have pro players, pro analysts, insiders to the business and years and years of exp.
i cringe when i listen to them discuss the business aspects of owning a team and being successful in esports because cmon, do any of them know anything about any of it....
i had a guy who repairs furniture come over the other day to give us a quote on the damage our new lab puppys did. when he saw the dogs he started giving us a "lesson" on the psychology of dogs and why they are how they are and more specifically the "exact" reasons why our dogs did what they did. needless to say everyone around when he was preaching this got very uncomfortable because hes the least qualified person to be telling us this next to ourselves and i feel the same way when watching this show
a side note... teamhouses are never worth it for a simple reason, pro gaming has no consistent money flow. you get money through sponsorship. you get sponsorship by showing up at tournys and doing well or getting large stream numbers. none of this requires a teamhouse and teamhouses detract from your ability to send players around more often. there is no more lan, if you're eg and your sponsored by a voice chat service then isnt a teamhouse kinda defeating the use of such a service? furthermore how often do these guys REALLY discuss "strats" with each other. be honest. its not much at all. they ladder all day. the purpose of being in a teamhouse is to get BETTER practice then other players or motivation. if your not motivated to practice on your own then you shouldnt be a pro gamer
get a grip
You go on a rant about how anyone that is not a professional in the field of topic should keep their opinions to themselves, and then promptly go ahead and give us your opinion of the subject? Nice one.
The show does some things quite well, some things quite terribly. I like having the two really quick interviews to talk about fps games. I like clutch doing the fast general news bit. I like the segment from the fighting game tournament.
I don't like the cheese. There are too many people. More specifically there are too many people who aren't pro gamers. The show really doesn't need more than 3 people, and even then the discussion should be condensed.
Maybe it's because I'm not American, because this is the feeling I get from a lot of US sports shows, but this feels far too fake for me to care about weekly. Maybe it's for someone, but not for me.
After this show I am a huge NASL fan lol. First one I saw and I loved it everyone was great even frodan was funny. It's like he got plastic surgery for being funny. Great stuff guys I LOVED it 10/10
Had a blast watching this show. Never got boring for me. The topics were interesting to me and great production. Maybe to much people but I like it very much overall.
On January 28 2013 13:05 sunglasseson wrote: the thing with this show is its basically sports center esq right? the dif is on sports center they have pro players, pro analysts, insiders to the business and years and years of exp.
i cringe when i listen to them discuss the business aspects of owning a team and being successful in esports because cmon, do any of them know anything about any of it....
i had a guy who repairs furniture come over the other day to give us a quote on the damage our new lab puppys did. when he saw the dogs he started giving us a "lesson" on the psychology of dogs and why they are how they are and more specifically the "exact" reasons why our dogs did what they did. needless to say everyone around when he was preaching this got very uncomfortable because hes the least qualified person to be telling us this next to ourselves and i feel the same way when watching this show
a side note... teamhouses are never worth it for a simple reason, pro gaming has no consistent money flow. you get money through sponsorship. you get sponsorship by showing up at tournys and doing well or getting large stream numbers. none of this requires a teamhouse and teamhouses detract from your ability to send players around more often. there is no more lan, if you're eg and your sponsored by a voice chat service then isnt a teamhouse kinda defeating the use of such a service? furthermore how often do these guys REALLY discuss "strats" with each other. be honest. its not much at all. they ladder all day. the purpose of being in a teamhouse is to get BETTER practice then other players or motivation. if your not motivated to practice on your own then you shouldnt be a pro gamer
get a grip
No offense, but if you know anything about the Starcraft talkshow 'scene', this is easily the most professional, structured and best moderated talk show to date. Considering it was only their second episode, I was extremely impressed.
Ironically, you're the one that obviously doesn't know what their talking about. If your only complaint is that they didn't have special guests (despite the obvious effort that Mr Bitter put in doing *gasp!* actual research) than you might want to avoid the lack of professionalism of Inside the Game, State of the Game, Live on Three etc. Compared to this, those shows are meandering circle jerks.
To NASL: Good fucking job. You actually included facts, notes, clips and esports news in your esports show! It's a revolution! Thank you.
Decent show, it's sometimes a bit chaotic and at other times I get annoyed when you notice too much that they're reading their lines off a piece of paper. I don't agree with some opinions and some were eveb a bit nonsensical in my opinion, but I obviously can't expect a show to represent my own opinions and values, that's fine. Production is great, keep going as long as possible.
Best aspect is obviously that they put a lot of effort into researching their topics and even getting statements/interviews/video content.
On January 28 2013 13:05 sunglasseson wrote: the thing with this show is its basically sports center esq right? the dif is on sports center they have pro players, pro analysts, insiders to the business and years and years of exp.
i cringe when i listen to them discuss the business aspects of owning a team and being successful in esports because cmon, do any of them know anything about any of it....
i had a guy who repairs furniture come over the other day to give us a quote on the damage our new lab puppys did. when he saw the dogs he started giving us a "lesson" on the psychology of dogs and why they are how they are and more specifically the "exact" reasons why our dogs did what they did. needless to say everyone around when he was preaching this got very uncomfortable because hes the least qualified person to be telling us this next to ourselves and i feel the same way when watching this show
a side note... teamhouses are never worth it for a simple reason, pro gaming has no consistent money flow. you get money through sponsorship. you get sponsorship by showing up at tournys and doing well or getting large stream numbers. none of this requires a teamhouse and teamhouses detract from your ability to send players around more often. there is no more lan, if you're eg and your sponsored by a voice chat service then isnt a teamhouse kinda defeating the use of such a service? furthermore how often do these guys REALLY discuss "strats" with each other. be honest. its not much at all. they ladder all day. the purpose of being in a teamhouse is to get BETTER practice then other players or motivation. if your not motivated to practice on your own then you shouldnt be a pro gamer
get a grip
Yah I suppose casters who talk with players often and players who have played professionally in other games over the last five years are totally less qualified than you to talk about things like team houses and training.
On January 28 2013 13:58 StarVe wrote: Decent show, it's sometimes a bit chaotic and at other times I get annoyed when you notice too much that they're reading their lines off a piece of paper. I don't agree with some opinions and some were eveb a bit nonsensical in my opinion, but I obviously can't expect a show to represent my own opinions and values, that's fine. Production is great, keep going as long as possible.
Best aspect is obviously that they put a lot of effort into researching their topics and even getting statements/interviews/video content.
I'm glad they actually had a real argument with different points of view. State of the Game is barely on anymore, and Inside the Game has pretty much become Inside the EG House (I like EG, but all those guys pretty much have a hive mind).
On January 28 2013 13:58 StarVe wrote: Decent show, it's sometimes a bit chaotic and at other times I get annoyed when you notice too much that they're reading their lines off a piece of paper. I don't agree with some opinions and some were eveb a bit nonsensical in my opinion, but I obviously can't expect a show to represent my own opinions and values, that's fine. Production is great, keep going as long as possible.
Best aspect is obviously that they put a lot of effort into researching their topics and even getting statements/interviews/video content.
I'm glad they actually had a real argument with different points of view. State of the Game is barely on anymore, and Inside the Game has pretty much become Inside the EG House (I like EG, but all those guys pretty much have a hive mind).
For sure, I just think they were sometimes a bit too focused on getting in the points they were scheduled to make and it didn't feel as much as a discussion and more like people checking pre-planned arguments off a list. I don't think anyone changed his opinion, they just followed their own train of thought.
I like how frodan tries to pull of some like really offensive jokes haha. I can't tell if I'm laughing at the joke he made, or him making the joke. I feel like to pull off offensive material you either need to be perceived an asshole or someone who doesn't care.
On January 28 2013 14:22 RodrigoX wrote: I like how frodan tries to pull of some like really offensive jokes haha. I can't tell if I'm laughing at the joke he made, or him making the joke. I feel like to pull off offensive material you either need to be perceived an asshole or someone who doesn't care.
Lauren Elise was right, she shouldn't be shoved in a corner...need more of her on stream just so I have something to fap to. On a serious note, this show is fantastic and I really think it is better than SotG atm.
Just watched episode 2 VOD. This is hands down the best eSport talkshow to date and sets the bar pretty high on how to do these kind of talkshows. Production looks pretty professional (semi-profession at the very least). Keep up the good work, will be watching the vods weekly.
On January 28 2013 08:44 coolcor wrote: Looking forward to the show I enjoyed it last time! Last week you discussed if the TL broodwar league would be a success. Any chance you can follow up on how successful you think it has been based on the number of viewers we've seen so far? Right now it is 6k and I would like to know if industry people consider that a success or failure.
I can't imagine how anybody could possibly consider it a failure.
Well everyone on the first show were pretty down on it saying few would watch and the majority in the poll voted against it being a success. This was after the first two qualifiers and those had 2-3k thousand (I think I remember correctly) so doubling it is good but I'm not sure if it is enough to change everyone's mind so I'm interested in updated opinions. What numbers would it take to be considered a success? Will views go down or up in the future? Will it encourage more bw or sc2bw content from others? They aren't even doing sc2bw in TL attack anymore like they used to
I really liked the 2nd show keep it up! If you are going to mention fighting games the battle for the 8th evo spot between melee and skullgirls would be a cool thing to mention. Over 40k raised for breast cancer research between those two games!
Some people brought up the credibility of the opinions presented in episode. If this is the case maybe bring in special guests. I'd love to hear what tasteosis opinion on the team houses as both casters were pro players at points of their lives. This is purely constructive criticism I loved the show last night. Thanks for running this show guys
Honestly the first talkshow I've sat through in one sitting in a LONG time, it's extremely entertaining and informative.
It's also really cool to see the Twitter conversations that pop up during the show as people not on the show want to share their view.
On January 28 2013 12:59 TheMannerMule wrote: I think a point that could have come up from the viability of team houses topic is:
-Do you have all serious players who are training for results and try to train them as a marketing tool to be marketed by the team (developing their personality, if they have one, and such).
OR
-Do you have a player or players who are not the best players but their marketing power/brand would be worth it, for instance a MaxiumusBlack type that is specifically called in for that purpose and nothing else.
This is an extremely good point, I made an argument during the show in a Skype conversation:
Especially in Korean dominated SC2, foreign players NEED the marketing aspect of the house desperately to stay relevant [1/27/2013 10:39:38 PM] Alex "Virgil" Schwartz: I also think streaming is NOT the way to go around marketing the player, that's another fault of foreign team houses. They sit the players down, they practice, and stream, and that's it and they [the managers] have the gall to say "We're marketing our players within the house" [1/27/2013 10:40:47 PM] Alex "Virgil" Schwartz: Streaming is, and should remain, a supplement for the player to directly increase their own pocket money while promoting themselves, and by proxy whatever organization they're currently representing. It's up to the organization to provide addition external promotion for the player and then by proxy the organization.
MaximusBlack is a wonderful example of someone who is able to bring tremendous value to an organization through his media outreach, but at the same point the organization can't (or rather, shouldn't) directly profit from his streaming revenue, instead it's a much better approach to let him go through the regular streaming routine he's doing, while at the same time promoting his brand/sponsors and using that to indirectly bring the money to his team. Does it perhaps detract from the "super serious professional gaming house environment" to bring someone like that into the house? Sure. Does it make the venture that much more sustainable and bring that much more exposure, indirectly, to the house and the other players within that don't necessarily have the time to market themselves to that extent outside of streaming? Absolutely. Outside of KeSPA, which is backed by a conglomerate of major corporate sponsors, team houses won't be viable, at least as far as sitting players down in a house, shutting them away, and sending them to major LANs is concerned, for a LONG time. Any team house, be it eSF or Foreign, needs some form of constant media exposure to have a hope of keeping it a successful, attractive venture for sponsors regardless of direct player improvement.
Sorry if this seems a little rambly, I'm wired up on a few cups of very strong tea and I've been up pretty much all night.
On January 29 2013 02:42 Pucca wrote: Some people brought up the credibility of the opinions presented in episode. If this is the case maybe bring in special guests. I'd love to hear what tasteosis opinion on the team houses as both casters were pro players at points of their lives. This is purely constructive criticism I loved the show last night. Thanks for running this show guys
When Tastless and Artosis were pros, there were no such thing as team houses outside of Korea, and neither of them were in Korea as pros so I don't really see how their opinion on team houses would add anything to the discussion...
On January 29 2013 02:42 Pucca wrote: Some people brought up the credibility of the opinions presented in episode. If this is the case maybe bring in special guests. I'd love to hear what tasteosis opinion on the team houses as both casters were pro players at points of their lives. This is purely constructive criticism I loved the show last night. Thanks for running this show guys
When Tastless and Artosis were pros, there were no such thing as team houses outside of Korea, and neither of them were in Korea as pros so I don't really see how their opinion on team houses would add anything to the discussion...
Exactly. Just because Tasteless and Artosis have been inside a Korean team house and hang out with teams does not mean they know anything about running a team or a team house. I'm sure they know something, but Mr Bitter's experience of having his own skin in the game and starting from scratch is far more interesting.
On January 29 2013 02:44 VirgilSC2 wrote: Honestly the first talkshow I've sat through in one sitting in a LONG time, it's extremely entertaining and informative.
It's also really cool to see the Twitter conversations that pop up during the show as people not on the show want to share their view.
On January 28 2013 12:59 TheMannerMule wrote: I think a point that could have come up from the viability of team houses topic is:
-Do you have all serious players who are training for results and try to train them as a marketing tool to be marketed by the team (developing their personality, if they have one, and such).
OR
-Do you have a player or players who are not the best players but their marketing power/brand would be worth it, for instance a MaxiumusBlack type that is specifically called in for that purpose and nothing else.
This is an extremely good point, I made an argument during the show in a Skype conversation:
Especially in Korean dominated SC2, foreign players NEED the marketing aspect of the house desperately to stay relevant [1/27/2013 10:39:38 PM] Alex "Virgil" Schwartz: I also think streaming is NOT the way to go around marketing the player, that's another fault of foreign team houses. They sit the players down, they practice, and stream, and that's it and they [the managers] have the gall to say "We're marketing our players within the house" [1/27/2013 10:40:47 PM] Alex "Virgil" Schwartz: Streaming is, and should remain, a supplement for the player to directly increase their own pocket money while promoting themselves, and by proxy whatever organization they're currently representing. It's up to the organization to provide addition external promotion for the player and then by proxy the organization.
MaximusBlack is a wonderful example of someone who is able to bring tremendous value to an organization through his media outreach, but at the same point the organization can't (or rather, shouldn't) directly profit from his streaming revenue, instead it's a much better approach to let him go through the regular streaming routine he's doing, while at the same time promoting his brand/sponsors and using that to indirectly bring the money to his team. Does it perhaps detract from the "super serious professional gaming house environment" to bring someone like that into the house? Sure. Does it make the venture that much more sustainable and bring that much more exposure, indirectly, to the house and the other players within that don't necessarily have the time to market themselves to that extent outside of streaming? Absolutely. Outside of KeSPA, which is backed by a conglomerate of major corporate sponsors, team houses won't be viable, at least as far as sitting players down in a house, shutting them away, and sending them to major LANs is concerned, for a LONG time. Any team house, be it eSF or Foreign, needs some form of constant media exposure to have a hope of keeping it a successful, attractive venture for sponsors regardless of direct player improvement.
Sorry if this seems a little rambly, I'm wired up on a few cups of very strong tea and I've been up pretty much all night.
I highlighted these sections because there is a pseudo rebuttal to that. MaximusBlack has had a history of associating with teams that have went on to disband for one reason or another (CheckSix and Quantic). From this, I think it might be easy to overestimate the marketing brand/power of MB (although he gets thousands of viewers watching his stream and hearing his obvious sponsor plugs). If I watch MaximusBlack's stream, am I likely to care enough to start learning about It'sGosu as a team? Not necessarily. One point that is not to be forgotten is a lot of the people who watch MaximusBlack's stream and his flagship operation of LifesAGlitchTV don't care about Starcraft at all. They just want to hear MB say ridiculous things or make somewhat offensive jokes. But to go back, it would be unfair to say that those two teams didn't have problems before MaximusBlack joined either team (especially Quantic).
With marketing professional players, some organizations are clueless with how to do. Listing the major NA teams: EG, Axiom, Clarity Gaming, It'sGosu, Complexity and ROOT, only one of those teams do a fantastic job with marketing (no prizes on which team that is). For the rest of them, I know what players they have but I don't really feel like I know the players. Those teams should be getting those players out into the community, doing interviews, giving appearances on talk-shows like ThePulse (for the ones who can articulate their thoughts well), doing charity work (while wearing sponsored clothing), commentating at tournaments (like QxC at IEM Poland) or maybe even guest starring at smaller events (at a discount or even no salary at all). Most of those players probably won't have anything major happen on the pro circuit so a 'grass-roots' strategy is best employed. It doesn't even have to take up that much time, say three days a month.
On January 29 2013 02:44 VirgilSC2 wrote: Honestly the first talkshow I've sat through in one sitting in a LONG time, it's extremely entertaining and informative.
It's also really cool to see the Twitter conversations that pop up during the show as people not on the show want to share their view.
On January 28 2013 12:59 TheMannerMule wrote: I think a point that could have come up from the viability of team houses topic is:
-Do you have all serious players who are training for results and try to train them as a marketing tool to be marketed by the team (developing their personality, if they have one, and such).
OR
-Do you have a player or players who are not the best players but their marketing power/brand would be worth it, for instance a MaxiumusBlack type that is specifically called in for that purpose and nothing else.
This is an extremely good point, I made an argument during the show in a Skype conversation:
Especially in Korean dominated SC2, foreign players NEED the marketing aspect of the house desperately to stay relevant [1/27/2013 10:39:38 PM] Alex "Virgil" Schwartz: I also think streaming is NOT the way to go around marketing the player, that's another fault of foreign team houses. They sit the players down, they practice, and stream, and that's it and they [the managers] have the gall to say "We're marketing our players within the house" [1/27/2013 10:40:47 PM] Alex "Virgil" Schwartz: Streaming is, and should remain, a supplement for the player to directly increase their own pocket money while promoting themselves, and by proxy whatever organization they're currently representing. It's up to the organization to provide addition external promotion for the player and then by proxy the organization.
MaximusBlack is a wonderful example of someone who is able to bring tremendous value to an organization through his media outreach, but at the same point the organization can't (or rather, shouldn't) directly profit from his streaming revenue, instead it's a much better approach to let him go through the regular streaming routine he's doing, while at the same time promoting his brand/sponsors and using that to indirectly bring the money to his team. Does it perhaps detract from the "super serious professional gaming house environment" to bring someone like that into the house? Sure. Does it make the venture that much more sustainable and bring that much more exposure, indirectly, to the house and the other players within that don't necessarily have the time to market themselves to that extent outside of streaming? Absolutely. Outside of KeSPA, which is backed by a conglomerate of major corporate sponsors, team houses won't be viable, at least as far as sitting players down in a house, shutting them away, and sending them to major LANs is concerned, for a LONG time. Any team house, be it eSF or Foreign, needs some form of constant media exposure to have a hope of keeping it a successful, attractive venture for sponsors regardless of direct player improvement.
Sorry if this seems a little rambly, I'm wired up on a few cups of very strong tea and I've been up pretty much all night.
I highlighted these sections because there is a pseudo rebuttal to that. MaximusBlack has had a history of associating with teams that have went on to disband for one reason or another (CheckSix and Quantic). From this, I think it might be easy to overestimate the marketing brand/power of MB (although he gets thousands of viewers watching his stream and hearing his obvious sponsor plugs). If I watch MaximusBlack's stream, am I likely to care enough to start learning about It'sGosu as a team? Not necessarily. One point that is not to be forgotten is a lot of the people who watch MaximusBlack's stream and his flagship operation of LifesAGlitchTV don't care about Starcraft at all. They just want to hear MB say ridiculous things or make somewhat offensive jokes. But to go back, it would be unfair to say that those two teams didn't have problems before MaximusBlack joined either team (especially Quantic).
With marketing professional players, some organizations are clueless with how to do. Listing the major NA teams: EG, Axiom, Clarity Gaming, It'sGosu, Complexity and ROOT, only one of those teams do a fantastic job with marketing (no prizes on which team that is). For the rest of them, I know what players they have but I don't really feel like I know the players. Those teams should be getting those players out into the community, doing interviews, giving appearances on talk-shows like ThePulse (for the ones who can articulate their thoughts well), doing charity work (while wearing sponsored clothing), commentating at tournaments (like QxC at IEM Poland) or maybe even guest starring at smaller events (at a discount or even no salary at all). Most of those players probably won't have anything major happen on the pro circuit so a 'grass-roots' strategy is best employed. It doesn't even have to take up that much time, say three days a month.
I will agree that streaming =/= marketing.
I'm on my phone at the moment so I can't elaborate as much as I'd like, I'll come back and do that in a little;
My point only stands true if you bring a player like MaximusBlack INTO the team house environment. Otherwise its a completely moot point.
I have a lot to say in response, so I'll come back and either edit this post or post a new one when I get done with what I'm doing.
This is a really good production and I think it's gonna quickly build a large fanbase. I love that they have discussions like that regarding Teamhouses today (yesterday). The voting, the general mood and attitude of the hosts makes it a funny show to watch at length. Rotti and Bitter are very important for the show though, make sure they are there at all times
I appreciate trying to offer a small amount of coverage for other games, it's great to see because SC2 is a bit insulated and self obsessed. I think you missed something important with the FGC though that would have been better to cover than anything else this week. EVO is having a fundraising drive for breast cancer research and to decide which game gets the last spot at EVO. I think this should have been covered because it shows gaming communities in a really positive light, and anyone could have found out about it just by looking at the front page of shoryuken.com http://evo.shoryuken.com/2013/01/25/evo-2013-donation-drive-standings-and-rule-update/
Great show!
edit: Talking about FPS was a really awesome touch too
On January 29 2013 02:44 VirgilSC2 wrote: Honestly the first talkshow I've sat through in one sitting in a LONG time, it's extremely entertaining and informative.
It's also really cool to see the Twitter conversations that pop up during the show as people not on the show want to share their view.
On January 28 2013 12:59 TheMannerMule wrote: I think a point that could have come up from the viability of team houses topic is:
-Do you have all serious players who are training for results and try to train them as a marketing tool to be marketed by the team (developing their personality, if they have one, and such).
OR
-Do you have a player or players who are not the best players but their marketing power/brand would be worth it, for instance a MaxiumusBlack type that is specifically called in for that purpose and nothing else.
This is an extremely good point, I made an argument during the show in a Skype conversation:
Especially in Korean dominated SC2, foreign players NEED the marketing aspect of the house desperately to stay relevant [1/27/2013 10:39:38 PM] Alex "Virgil" Schwartz: I also think streaming is NOT the way to go around marketing the player, that's another fault of foreign team houses. They sit the players down, they practice, and stream, and that's it and they [the managers] have the gall to say "We're marketing our players within the house" [1/27/2013 10:40:47 PM] Alex "Virgil" Schwartz: Streaming is, and should remain, a supplement for the player to directly increase their own pocket money while promoting themselves, and by proxy whatever organization they're currently representing. It's up to the organization to provide addition external promotion for the player and then by proxy the organization.
MaximusBlack is a wonderful example of someone who is able to bring tremendous value to an organization through his media outreach, but at the same point the organization can't (or rather, shouldn't) directly profit from his streaming revenue, instead it's a much better approach to let him go through the regular streaming routine he's doing, while at the same time promoting his brand/sponsors and using that to indirectly bring the money to his team. Does it perhaps detract from the "super serious professional gaming house environment" to bring someone like that into the house? Sure. Does it make the venture that much more sustainable and bring that much more exposure, indirectly, to the house and the other players within that don't necessarily have the time to market themselves to that extent outside of streaming? Absolutely. Outside of KeSPA, which is backed by a conglomerate of major corporate sponsors, team houses won't be viable, at least as far as sitting players down in a house, shutting them away, and sending them to major LANs is concerned, for a LONG time. Any team house, be it eSF or Foreign, needs some form of constant media exposure to have a hope of keeping it a successful, attractive venture for sponsors regardless of direct player improvement.
Sorry if this seems a little rambly, I'm wired up on a few cups of very strong tea and I've been up pretty much all night.
I highlighted these sections because there is a pseudo rebuttal to that. MaximusBlack has had a history of associating with teams that have went on to disband for one reason or another (CheckSix and Quantic). From this, I think it might be easy to overestimate the marketing brand/power of MB (although he gets thousands of viewers watching his stream and hearing his obvious sponsor plugs). If I watch MaximusBlack's stream, am I likely to care enough to start learning about It'sGosu as a team? Not necessarily. One point that is not to be forgotten is a lot of the people who watch MaximusBlack's stream and his flagship operation of LifesAGlitchTV don't care about Starcraft at all. They just want to hear MB say ridiculous things or make somewhat offensive jokes. But to go back, it would be unfair to say that those two teams didn't have problems before MaximusBlack joined either team (especially Quantic).
With marketing professional players, some organizations are clueless with how to do. Listing the major NA teams: EG, Axiom, Clarity Gaming, It'sGosu, Complexity and ROOT, only one of those teams do a fantastic job with marketing (no prizes on which team that is). For the rest of them, I know what players they have but I don't really feel like I know the players. Those teams should be getting those players out into the community, doing interviews, giving appearances on talk-shows like ThePulse (for the ones who can articulate their thoughts well), doing charity work (while wearing sponsored clothing), commentating at tournaments (like QxC at IEM Poland) or maybe even guest starring at smaller events (at a discount or even no salary at all). Most of those players probably won't have anything major happen on the pro circuit so a 'grass-roots' strategy is best employed. It doesn't even have to take up that much time, say three days a month.
I will agree that streaming =/= marketing.
I'm on my phone at the moment so I can't elaborate as much as I'd like, I'll come back and do that in a little;
My point only stands true if you bring a player like MaximusBlack INTO the team house environment. Otherwise its a completely moot point.
I have a lot to say in response, so I'll come back and either edit this post or post a new one when I get done with what I'm doing.
I don't think MaximusBlack ever really stayed in a team house environment much? I correct me if I'm wrong. I know he was one of the last people to know about Quantic disbanding.
On January 29 2013 05:07 ShrieK wrote: I appreciate trying to offer a small amount of coverage for other games, it's great to see because SC2 is a bit insulated and self obsessed. I think you missed something important with the FGC though that would have been better to cover than anything else this week. EVO is having a fundraising drive for breast cancer research and to decide which game gets the last spot at EVO. I think this should have been covered because it shows gaming communities in a really positive light, and anyone could have found out about it just by looking at the front page of shoryuken.com http://evo.shoryuken.com/2013/01/25/evo-2013-donation-drive-standings-and-rule-update/
Great show!
edit: Talking about FPS was a really awesome touch too
This will definitely be hit in our next show. Thanks for pointing it out.
The debate was definitely interesting! I wish team-houses were a lot more observed and researched from independent parties (as in they go in the house and try and qualify/quantify progress).
On January 29 2013 02:44 VirgilSC2 wrote: Honestly the first talkshow I've sat through in one sitting in a LONG time, it's extremely entertaining and informative.
It's also really cool to see the Twitter conversations that pop up during the show as people not on the show want to share their view.
On January 28 2013 12:59 TheMannerMule wrote: I think a point that could have come up from the viability of team houses topic is:
-Do you have all serious players who are training for results and try to train them as a marketing tool to be marketed by the team (developing their personality, if they have one, and such).
OR
-Do you have a player or players who are not the best players but their marketing power/brand would be worth it, for instance a MaxiumusBlack type that is specifically called in for that purpose and nothing else.
This is an extremely good point, I made an argument during the show in a Skype conversation:
Especially in Korean dominated SC2, foreign players NEED the marketing aspect of the house desperately to stay relevant [1/27/2013 10:39:38 PM] Alex "Virgil" Schwartz: I also think streaming is NOT the way to go around marketing the player, that's another fault of foreign team houses. They sit the players down, they practice, and stream, and that's it and they [the managers] have the gall to say "We're marketing our players within the house" [1/27/2013 10:40:47 PM] Alex "Virgil" Schwartz: Streaming is, and should remain, a supplement for the player to directly increase their own pocket money while promoting themselves, and by proxy whatever organization they're currently representing. It's up to the organization to provide addition external promotion for the player and then by proxy the organization.
MaximusBlack is a wonderful example of someone who is able to bring tremendous value to an organization through his media outreach, but at the same point the organization can't (or rather, shouldn't) directly profit from his streaming revenue, instead it's a much better approach to let him go through the regular streaming routine he's doing, while at the same time promoting his brand/sponsors and using that to indirectly bring the money to his team. Does it perhaps detract from the "super serious professional gaming house environment" to bring someone like that into the house? Sure. Does it make the venture that much more sustainable and bring that much more exposure, indirectly, to the house and the other players within that don't necessarily have the time to market themselves to that extent outside of streaming? Absolutely. Outside of KeSPA, which is backed by a conglomerate of major corporate sponsors, team houses won't be viable, at least as far as sitting players down in a house, shutting them away, and sending them to major LANs is concerned, for a LONG time. Any team house, be it eSF or Foreign, needs some form of constant media exposure to have a hope of keeping it a successful, attractive venture for sponsors regardless of direct player improvement.
Sorry if this seems a little rambly, I'm wired up on a few cups of very strong tea and I've been up pretty much all night.
I highlighted these sections because there is a pseudo rebuttal to that. MaximusBlack has had a history of associating with teams that have went on to disband for one reason or another (CheckSix and Quantic). From this, I think it might be easy to overestimate the marketing brand/power of MB (although he gets thousands of viewers watching his stream and hearing his obvious sponsor plugs). If I watch MaximusBlack's stream, am I likely to care enough to start learning about It'sGosu as a team? Not necessarily. One point that is not to be forgotten is a lot of the people who watch MaximusBlack's stream and his flagship operation of LifesAGlitchTV don't care about Starcraft at all. They just want to hear MB say ridiculous things or make somewhat offensive jokes. But to go back, it would be unfair to say that those two teams didn't have problems before MaximusBlack joined either team (especially Quantic).
With marketing professional players, some organizations are clueless with how to do. Listing the major NA teams: EG, Axiom, Clarity Gaming, It'sGosu, Complexity and ROOT, only one of those teams do a fantastic job with marketing (no prizes on which team that is). For the rest of them, I know what players they have but I don't really feel like I know the players. Those teams should be getting those players out into the community, doing interviews, giving appearances on talk-shows like ThePulse (for the ones who can articulate their thoughts well), doing charity work (while wearing sponsored clothing), commentating at tournaments (like QxC at IEM Poland) or maybe even guest starring at smaller events (at a discount or even no salary at all). Most of those players probably won't have anything major happen on the pro circuit so a 'grass-roots' strategy is best employed. It doesn't even have to take up that much time, say three days a month.
I will agree that streaming =/= marketing.
I'm on my phone at the moment so I can't elaborate as much as I'd like, I'll come back and do that in a little;
My point only stands true if you bring a player like MaximusBlack INTO the team house environment. Otherwise its a completely moot point.
I have a lot to say in response, so I'll come back and either edit this post or post a new one when I get done with what I'm doing.
I don't think MaximusBlack ever really stayed in a team house environment much? I correct me if I'm wrong. I know he was one of the last people to know about Quantic disbanding.
No, as far as I'm aware MaximusBlack was never in the team-house, and I think that detracts from the value of acquiring someone like him.
Bringing a personality LIKE MaximusBlack into a team-house allows you to have this window into the team house that can be open at any time without being a completely static camera with no viewer interaction. What bringing a media personality like that into the house is allows the full-time pros to focus exclusively on their play, while simultaneously having this interactive, engaging personality not only convey himself and his team, but his players around him. Honestly I'd say stick him in the house, have him expose facets of the players' personalities ON STREAM that we don't necessarily see on THEIR stream, furthermore, use the same face to produce pre-recorded content from the house, or even teach them to cast as well. Buy him 4-5 jerseys, have him wear it every time he streams! (I say this because i know for a fact that maximusblack doesn't have a single one, considering I haven't gotten an order for it)
I guess the jist of it is, if you want to give your players the best training environment possible, you need someone else in the house that can be the face to the fans, and the window to more than just their play, and management is definitely not the way to go in that regard.
On January 29 2013 05:07 ShrieK wrote: I appreciate trying to offer a small amount of coverage for other games, it's great to see because SC2 is a bit insulated and self obsessed. I think you missed something important with the FGC though that would have been better to cover than anything else this week. EVO is having a fundraising drive for breast cancer research and to decide which game gets the last spot at EVO. I think this should have been covered because it shows gaming communities in a really positive light, and anyone could have found out about it just by looking at the front page of shoryuken.com http://evo.shoryuken.com/2013/01/25/evo-2013-donation-drive-standings-and-rule-update/
Great show!
edit: Talking about FPS was a really awesome touch too
This will definitely be hit in our next show. Thanks for pointing it out.
Good job as host of the show. I think that is one thing that sets the show apart from others. You also seems more prepared than other hosts tend to be.
This week's episode was hilarious, and the final segment with Frodan has so much potential for laughs that I'm looking forward to it next week as well (that reference to Supernova was cruel, but I had a really good laugh as I understood that it's all tongue-in-cheek).
But before that, I gotta start beasting it up in the gym.
NASL always brings the goods. Been following since season 2 and boy a lot has changed, but good change! I like how you guys created a platform for an eSports talk show, comparable to ones that are on ESPN. I know its been thrown out there already, its just so true. Also like the fact that everyone has a sound opinion on all of the topics being discussed. It's interesting listening in on the debates and participating alongside in the chat room is neat. Brilliant job with the adjustments that were made and keep doing what you're doing. It's working!
Everything so far has been amazing but one thing in particular are the interviews you have done. The interviews you guys have done are very informative and very well done and are probably my personal favorite thing so far. Tyler and Ryan's insight were so interesting especially since Halo was once the flagship of MLG and was on TV for a little while.
I've brought up this point when EG first opened their house and I'll bring it up again: I believe one of the biggest reasons why the Korean team houses produce quality players and play is that they have full-time dedicated coaches/trainers/etc whose sole job is to make sure the players practice, adhere to schedules, focus on weaknesses, etc.
There can be arguments abound regarding the independence of players, how players should have autonomy when training as opposed to regimented 'trainer looking over-your-shoulder' type of work. However, results speak for themselves. The Korean teams on the whole produce better quality players and play than do the rest of the SC playing world. I also do believe people like Stephano are outliers, as Gretorp mentioned, and that fact shouldn't be used as evidence to suggest that team houses won't work. In the long term, over a large number of players, a regimented and structured team house environment with coaching, with trainers, with proper care, will produce better players and ultimately better results.
I understand this is all secondary to what the real question was, and that was whether team houses are a good financial investment. The consensus on the show was that marketing, content production, etc, makes a house worth the investment, if done right. Results essentially become an added bonus. That's a road that personally I don't like. But then again, I'm in the minority: I enjoy starcraft for the quality of the games and not the personalities behind it.
On January 29 2013 11:45 Bayyne wrote: I've brought up this point when EG first opened their house and I'll bring it up again: I believe one of the biggest reasons why the Korean team houses produce quality players and play is that they have full-time dedicated coaches/trainers/etc whose sole job is to make sure the players practice, adhere to schedules, focus on weaknesses, etc.
There can be arguments abound regarding the independence of players, how players should have autonomy when training as opposed to regimented 'trainer looking over-your-shoulder' type of work. However, results speak for themselves. The Korean teams on the whole produce better quality players and play than do the rest of the SC playing world. I also do believe people like Stephano are outliers, as Gretorp mentioned, and that fact shouldn't be used as evidence to suggest that team houses won't work. In the long term, over a large number of players, a regimented and structured team house environment with coaching, with trainers, with proper care, will produce better players and ultimately better results.
I understand this is all secondary to what the real question was, and that was whether team houses are a good financial investment. The consensus on the show was that marketing, content production, etc, makes a house worth the investment, if done right. Results essentially become an added bonus. That's a road that personally I don't like. But then again, I'm in the minority: I enjoy starcraft for the quality of the games and not the personalities behind it.
The most interesting thing for me was how unanimous team management was when I approached them about it. Everybody said the same thing: marketing takes precedent over player development all day every day. It's how they pay the bills. It has to.
One day this could change. But for that to happen, teams have to be able to make money in other ways... Merchandise sales, ticket sales, profit sharing with events, (erm... maybe when events turn profits) etc.
What makes EG's house unique among all the team houses is that it's actually a sustainable investment, that doesn't rely on a team having the absolute tip-top players in the world or repeat GSL Champions in order to remain viable.
Think of all the great Korean team houses that closed due to a general lack of tournament success or sponsorship. It's seems like the only Korean teams that can afford to exists are one's that consistently post big, BIG results.
While that kind of meritocracy and attrition might appeal to some die-hard purists, it's not a viable way to run a business. You can't have the financial stability of your business rest entirely on the reputations and accomplishments of one or two players. If Nestea or MVP didn't both go on incredible runs in the past year and half, would IM still exist? What would happen to the team if one of them got hit by a bus? Or got married?
The focus of the EG house clearly isn't training, it's content creation and delivery, which is used to help promote their sponsors. That's what the sponsors are paying for -- eyeballs on their products. Frankly, that's how sponsorship in ALL sports SHOULD work. There's a reason why the New York Knicks and Toronto Maple Leafs are worth hundreds of millions of dollars in spite of their lack of success ... they exist in big media markets, draw big crowds and leverage their brands well.
I'm sure EG players have some kind of streaming quota they have to, and willfully, maintain. It guarantees exposure for their sponsors and puts stream revenue in their pocket.
While player development is part of a team's responsibilities and obligations, I definitely think their model of running a team — focusing on viewership and sponsorship first, and winning second -- makes sense. I'm sure EG players want to post big results and be the best in the world, but I'm willing to bet they're also glad they don't have to place top 3 in every tournament to get paid a living wage.
TLDR; I think a team can't be expected to produce great players if the players and the team can't survive financially for the long haul.
On January 29 2013 12:30 Defacer wrote: What makes EG's house unique among all the team houses is that it's actually a sustainable investment, that doesn't rely on a team having the absolute tip-top players in the world or repeat GSL Champions in order to remain viable.
Think of all the great Korean team houses that closed due to a general lack of tournament success or sponsorship. It's seems like the only Korean teams that can afford to exists are one's that consistently post big, BIG results.
While that kind of meritocracy and attrition might appeal to some die-hard purists, it's not a viable way to run a business. You can't have the financial stability of your business rest entirely on the reputations and accomplishments of one or two players. If Nestea or MVP didn't both go on incredible runs in the past year and half, would IM still exist? What would happen to the team if one of them got hit by a bus? Or got married?
The focus of the EG house clearly isn't training, it's content creation and delivery, which is used to help promote their sponsors. That's what the sponsors are paying for -- eyeballs on their products. Frankly, that's how sponsorship in ALL sports SHOULD work. There's a reason why the New York Knicks and Toronto Maple Leafs are worth hundreds of millions of dollars in spite of their lack of success ... they exist in big media markets, draw big crowds and leverage their brands well.
I'm sure EG players have some kind of streaming quota they have to, and willfully, maintain. It guarantees exposure for their sponsors and puts stream revenue in their pocket.
While player development is part of a team's responsibilities and obligations, I definitely think their model of running a team — focusing on viewership and sponsorship first, and winning second -- makes sense. I'm sure EG players want to post big results and be the best in the world, but I'm willing to bet they're also glad they don't have to place top 3 in every tournament to get paid a living wage.
TLDR; I think a team can't be expected to produce great players if the players and the team can't survive financially for the long haul.
So why do we need a ridiculously gigantic house then? Its not like their media creation requires even half the property. They need to live extra comfortably to expose their B level acting? Thats like pampered movie stars without half the talent. Give EGs media producers the house they do all the work.
On January 29 2013 12:30 Defacer wrote: What makes EG's house unique among all the team houses is that it's actually a sustainable investment, that doesn't rely on a team having the absolute tip-top players in the world or repeat GSL Champions in order to remain viable.
Think of all the great Korean team houses that closed due to a general lack of tournament success or sponsorship. It's seems like the only Korean teams that can afford to exists are one's that consistently post big, BIG results.
While that kind of meritocracy and attrition might appeal to some die-hard purists, it's not a viable way to run a business. You can't have the financial stability of your business rest entirely on the reputations and accomplishments of one or two players. If Nestea or MVP didn't both go on incredible runs in the past year and half, would IM still exist? What would happen to the team if one of them got hit by a bus? Or got married?
The focus of the EG house clearly isn't training, it's content creation and delivery, which is used to help promote their sponsors. That's what the sponsors are paying for -- eyeballs on their products. Frankly, that's how sponsorship in ALL sports SHOULD work. There's a reason why the New York Knicks and Toronto Maple Leafs are worth hundreds of millions of dollars in spite of their lack of success ... they exist in big media markets, draw big crowds and leverage their brands well.
I'm sure EG players have some kind of streaming quota they have to, and willfully, maintain. It guarantees exposure for their sponsors and puts stream revenue in their pocket.
While player development is part of a team's responsibilities and obligations, I definitely think their model of running a team — focusing on viewership and sponsorship first, and winning second -- makes sense. I'm sure EG players want to post big results and be the best in the world, but I'm willing to bet they're also glad they don't have to place top 3 in every tournament to get paid a living wage.
TLDR; I think a team can't be expected to produce great players if the players and the team can't survive financially for the long haul.
So why do we need a ridiculously gigantic house then? Its not like their media creation requires even half the property. They need to live extra comfortably to expose their B level acting? Thats like pampered movie stars without half the talent. Give EGs media producers the house they do all the work.
Part of the reason they have the house in Arizona was they got it when the economy tanked and it was dirt cheap. It's probably one the key factors that makes having the house viable.
I doubt they would try to have a house in California or New York or near any major city.
And food, room and board is not really 'pampering'. Actually, having roommates kind of suck. But free food!
Edit: To answer your question, there is efficiency gained from having everyone in the same room/area and working in the same place. It's a live/work office, essentially. I'm not sure if they're saving that much money. Then again, maybe it's cheaper to have players split living expenses and cover the cost than pay them higher salaries.
On February 04 2013 05:28 2muchSWAG wrote: why is the pulse ep 3 on the TL calendar twice (now and 6 hours later)
My guess is the NASL norm of having a second more EU friendly broadcast at a different time. Or possibly this time the live show is EU friendly, while the rebroadcast is more NA friendly. I'm not able to watch it live now (:C) but I can catch it then, hopefully.
That Planetside2 guy feel like a nice and optimistic developper.. but let's be honest.. this kind of game as an esport will never work, I don't know how they can fool themselves. :d
On February 04 2013 06:15 Noocta wrote: That Planetside2 guy feel like a nice and optimistic developper.. but let's be honest.. this kind of game as an esport will never work, I don't know how they can fool themselves. :d
Could I recommend you also put a vod on youtube or something? When I watch streams/vods I fullscreen it, and it's inconvenient having to minimize so I can click the next "part", let alone doing that 9-12 times throughout the show. Even if it was on youtube as one whole clip, I don't mind 2 minute breaks included, I can skip through it and back up if I go too far - and I would much prefer that (basically what I do for sotg/itg).
2GD brought me here. Oh wow, this show is indeed so good.
But guys, really, you must step up your Dota 2 if you are going 5v5 against TheGDStudio, because they play a lot of Dota 2 and recently even had a decent run in a caster tournament. It's not even gonna be close, guys.
Full episodes are listed on the far right side of the screen there.
For anyone wondering:
Splitting up VODs lets us gauge interest in certain topics, and that helps in preparation for future content. There is a method to the madness, I promise.
Full episodes are listed on the far right side of the screen there.
For anyone wondering:
Splitting up VODs lets us gauge interest in certain topics, and that helps in preparation for future content. There is a method to the madness, I promise.
The region lock discussion is a big topic, but one easy escape is: just let there be different kinds of tournaments. Yes, some of them could be regional-only; and yet others could be (pseudo)global - the way they've been up to now.
On February 11 2013 05:28 figq wrote: The region lock discussion is a big topic, but one easy escape is: just let there be different kinds of tournaments. Yes, some of them could be regional-only; and yet others could be (pseudo)global - the way they've been up to now.
That's something that should have been done 2 years ago. Since no tournament wanted to sacrifice their views for long-term good of their scene we ended up with what we have today.
I want to congratulate NASL for The Pulse. This show is nothing short of amazing and whoever developed it deserves a huge applause. The personal segments are pure genius (you always know what you get and you look forward to it). The live polls are even better (there´s no better interaction than live interaction). The mixture of informative material, knowledgable players and great discussions leave an impression on everyone that watches this show.
The team that is in front of the camera has really great chemistry (especially Ben and Rotterdam, who really are made for shows like this) and there´s different personalities that make this show exciting and not boring at all. Even when there´s a lot of funny chatter, Ben really understands how and when to come back to the main topic at hand to present the show professionally for the viewers, while Rotterdam constantly lays down some very well thought-out examples to support his opinions/arguments. Rounding out the show with Frodan´s segment always leaves a smile on my face and most of the time it´s pretty hilarious. Up to speed is well presented by Clutch and Lauren is great with the polls and also has the guts to stand up to all the guys.
I really appreciate the always surprising call-ins, where programers, team managers, organizers etc. are interviewed, which adds short and to-the-point views from external eSports people who are well spoken and can express their opinions and thoughts, which is really great.
To sum it up, this is by far the best news/talk show I´ve ever seen on the Internet. I hope sponsors can appreciate how well this show is done as well, not just for the NA scene, but for eSports in general.
PS: I would really love one thing NASL could add to this show. How about a segment where Gretorp presents e.x. some asian food for all the non-asian (e.x. AUS/NA/EU) viewers out there. I constantly hear that asian food is delicious and I sometimes visit chinese restaurants. But even though we have pretty good restaurants in Germany, I actually never got introduced into the asian culture and their great food. I think a lot of the non-asian viewers would love that. It should be something non-esports related to not saturate this topic too much. Something like "Food for thought" could be the name of this segment and it doesn´t have to be purely about asian food of course. To know a culture that we came to love through eSports more and more, because it has brought us not only great personalities, but also great sportsmanship.
Why do they cut the episodes in like 11parts with no playlists wtf? Anyone got a mp3 of it? I don't have the patience to click through all the parts on twitch.
On February 11 2013 05:28 figq wrote: The region lock discussion is a big topic, but one easy escape is: just let there be different kinds of tournaments. Yes, some of them could be regional-only; and yet others could be (pseudo)global - the way they've been up to now.
That's something that should have been done 2 years ago. Since no tournament wanted to sacrifice their views for long-term good of their scene we ended up with what we have today.
Ever heard to the EPS? And the IEM are also softly region locked in my opinion.
edit: also enjoyed the show very much. What was the caster vs professional gamer event they were referring to? They mentioned the name, but it slipped my mind... <.<
On February 11 2013 05:28 figq wrote: The region lock discussion is a big topic, but one easy escape is: just let there be different kinds of tournaments. Yes, some of them could be regional-only; and yet others could be (pseudo)global - the way they've been up to now.
That's something that should have been done 2 years ago. Since no tournament wanted to sacrifice their views for long-term good of their scene we ended up with what we have today.
Ever heard to the EPS? And the IEM are also softly region locked in my opinion.
edit: also enjoyed the show very much. What was the caster vs professional gamer event they were referring to? They mentioned the name, but it slipped my mind... <.<
The problem with discussing region-locking is that it is often discussed in black and white. IMHO, there need to be both styles of competition. Drawing the racism card is silly when regional structures are the natural thing to do in every other sports.
Regional structures pair well with regular competition. Pro players' daily bread should be to come on top of the regional competition to qualify for the big boys' league. This should also tone down the importance of marketability of players. Yes, marketable players still have an advantage elsewhere, but proving oneself in competition should be the job of a pro. Do you think coming to very few tournaments in a year (where travel compensation is a big concern for many) is a better model of training players than weekly, regular competition? I think regional competitions would be a welcome change from the tournaments that give us the feeling of oversaturation. It builds suspense towards the super tournament where the champions of the regions finally meet. Only series of one-off tournaments is surely not the way to build a sports.
Yes, regional competitions might not be a crowd magnet. But I think it is possible that it will be like Rotti described it. You might watch your domestic league, plus maybe a league you find interesting. You still watch the high-class league and then you are really, really hyped up how the players you learned to know do in the tournament where they all meet.
While I believe it when community members say that they don't care whether a player is Korean or not, I also believe that a scene cannot grow domestic acceptance, popularity and competition, if you only import skill. Long term growth of the scene remains important and you don't make anyone a favor, not even Koreans, if you abandon your domestic players.
Gretorp brought up players like HuK and Naniwa that try to go against all odds and take huge sacrifices. Others agree in the sense of "everyone needs to be exposed to the highest of the competition immediately and we see what comes out of it". Although it sounds reasonable, for me it's undeniable that we have witnessed the failure of this mentality in WoL. Players retire, hardly anybody truly new comes up, rarely good storylines, overly focus on popularity. Players that try to make a living are not going to tournaments when their odds are bad. Players that need to be built up aren't improving with the competition, they are overwhelmed by it. Exceptions like HuK and Naniwa make their way either way, but giving them as an example while seeing the fallout of that mentality for many others is just ignorance of the problem.
The question for me is if we want to "save" the foreigner scene or not. For me, the answer is yes because I think it's the only way to grow the SC2 scene as a whole. Which is what we need.
I think, splitting VOD in 14 different parts is silly. It's hard to watch on twitch because you need to switch video 14 times, to get through. On YT is a bit better, but VODS are mixed up. For example latest pulse is mixed up with caster bash.
Also worth mentioning is a mess it does on your YT subscription feed and on twitch channel.
I understand add revenue is important, but I think you need to find another way, because I don't think this is a good idea.
You should compare views from split VODs and how it's usually done. I don't think add revenue is the only thing you should be looking at.
Love your work though. Keep doing what you're doing!
Hey NASL. Thanks for all the good work on the shows! Any chance of revisiting the subject of teamhouses being worth it now that real talk has given some new information on this subject?
Currently watching episode 5. Great show, one criticism;
Please leave the balance discussion to the pros, no one wants to listen to Bitter balance whining about issues he's simply,(statistically, objectively) not a good enough player to comment on. When Bitter starts a sentence with "the thing about Zerg versus Terran is"(literally telling the audience HOW IT IS) it makes me want to stop watching. He has zero authority when it comes to something like that regardless of whether hes right or wrong. This balance complaining only detracts from the show, there is simply much more detailed and thorough discussion regarding game balance happening elsewhere.(sotg, player streams, interviews/articles with players etc.)
Of course part of the show is to comment on the patches but that does not need to lead into that mess of a discussion that it did. If Bitter is stressed with zvt on the ladder he can keep that to himself and be professional. If you want to talk about game balance on the pulse, please invite a professional player on the show to discuss it so it can have some substance.
Bitter's right though, a lot of pro Zerg players on HOTS ARE complaining about the state of ZvT and ZvP a lot, and he's just voicing out their opinions as well as his own personal experiences with it. If you listened to State of the Game's most recent episode, CatZ (who echoes a lot of opinions from his Zerg progamer peers, as well as Korean pro Zergs) basically says a lot of similar things.
On February 25 2013 17:08 KanoCoke wrote: Bitter's right though, a lot of pro Zerg players on HOTS ARE complaining about the state of ZvT and ZvP a lot, and he's just voicing out their opinions as well as his own personal experiences with it. If you listened to State of the Game's most recent episode, CatZ (who echoes a lot of opinions from his Zerg progamer peers, as well as Korean pro Zergs) basically says a lot of similar things.
Are you just plain hatin'?
Care to link to the opinions of those Korean zergs?
On February 25 2013 17:08 KanoCoke wrote: Bitter's right though, a lot of pro Zerg players on HOTS ARE complaining about the state of ZvT and ZvP a lot, and he's just voicing out their opinions as well as his own personal experiences with it. If you listened to State of the Game's most recent episode, CatZ (who echoes a lot of opinions from his Zerg progamer peers, as well as Korean pro Zergs) basically says a lot of similar things.
Are you just plain hatin'?
I'm surprised your actually comparing this to SOTG, since that last episode with catz is one i consider to have handled balance discussion very well, and to me at least the differences are fairly evident.
I'm gonna write a post asap to respond to this, just loading up both videos since I can get the exact facts straight
On February 25 2013 15:56 Rorra wrote: Currently watching episode 5. Great show, one criticism;
Please leave the balance discussion to the pros, no one wants to listen to Bitter balance whining about issues he's simply,(statistically, objectively) not a good enough player to comment on. When Bitter starts a sentence with "the thing about Zerg versus Terran is"(literally telling the audience HOW IT IS) it makes me want to stop watching. He has zero authority when it comes to something like that regardless of whether hes right or wrong. This balance complaining only detracts from the show, there is simply much more detailed and thorough discussion regarding game balance happening elsewhere.(sotg, player streams, interviews/articles with players etc.)
Of course part of the show is to comment on the patches but that does not need to lead into that mess of a discussion that it did. If Bitter is stressed with zvt on the ladder he can keep that to himself and be professional. If you want to talk about game balance on the pulse, please invite a professional player on the show to discuss it so it can have some substance.
One criticism of TL members and SC2 fans:
Its is very, very normal for people to have a deep understanding of a sport, without playing it professionally or being bad at the sport themselves. See, oh ... every major network and every major sport that isn't SC2, which is populated with an endless array of coaches, scouts, and on-air talent that all SUCK at the game they study and analyze.
In fact, not only do these non-players provide valuable analysis and insight, but often, they provide a less biased and less subjective opinion than professional players, because they can separate the limitations of their play from how the game works.
And guess what? Even fans in other sports are allowed to have opinions, too! It's not at all abnormal for some fan to share his opinions on how his favorite team is playing and what they can do to improve! They don't need to be a 'professional' or 'Masters' level players or have 500,000 XP or anything!
And the craziest thing is this — even though their opinion isn't certified, sponsored or cosigned by some authoritative body, sometimes they're actually right!
TLDR; Mr. Bitter certainly understands the game well enough to have an opinion, and even he didn't, he's entitled to it.
A lot of the casters were former pros. In fact a majority of sports broadcasters / coaches were either: a) professional players, b) college level players. There are few notable exceptions : Mike Breen (ESPN/ABC caster for the NBA) but a great majority came from the ranks of professional gamers.
News people // talking heads is a different story though. A lot of them were not former pros (see: Bill Simmons).
Ok here we go, I'm going to keep this focused because I could write a novel on the amount of discussion that occurs on sotg and i feel like I made the general idea of my point clear in my first post. Oh and just so you know CatZ does not say similar things at all.
Keeping it strictly relating to the issue of reaper imbalance in TvZ which both shows touch on let me summarise what they discussed.
First State of the Game
CatZ claims reapers(particularly proxy reaper rushes) are clearly a big problem. His primary argument is; The biggest problem with reapers is it's up to the Terran player to deal damage and not up to the Zerg to defend.
That, perhaps due to his phrasing sounds a bit crazy at first but he then details exactly what he means and why this is an issue His initial points are; proxy reapers will always be in your base before queen(2 reapers) Lings cant catch reapers until you have speed which will always be a long way off before they arrive It is not possible for the Zerg to have anything at the time that will ever catch and surround or beat the reapers. This is why it is entirely up to the Terran's multitasking. (notice how these both back up and detail the claim he made)
This discussion is of course about proxy 8-8 and 10-10 reaper rushes, which is the major issue in tvz, though reapers in general maybe a bit to powerful as well There is consensus that the damage reapers can do is all on top of maximum scouting potential qxc agrees and considers the scouting to be a very important part of standard reaper play. it goes on and on, qxc raises the point its effects are not to dissimilar to 2fact blueflame etc(i took a bunch of notes)
Now do they reach the conclusion that reapers are too powerful? hell yeah, absolutely, not only that their reasoning behind it is detailed thoroughly discussed in an unbiased fashion. I will admit that I am somewhat biased towards pros and even if CatZ hadn't detailed his thought nearly as much I would consider them more valid(whether u would or not is your choice.)
NOW The Pulse, and Particularly Mr Bitter.
Bitter's argument is; the problem with reapers is that Terran can open reapers and they get map control that the Zerg cant do anything about. Bitter then makes the claim that Zerg absolutely has to have map control as a mechanic (due to his 1 dimensional and outdated view of Zerg as "the reactive race")
MAYBE BITTER IS RIGHT, I don't know, but he didn't back up his argument at all, he didn't detail or discuss it at all, no professional player seems to think that what he's talking about is an issue, and yet he just tries to pass it off as fact. And no non pro player has a right to pull shit like that. Or are people really gonna believe that bitter is seeing some issue no pro is seeing?
Defacer If being a community figurehead gives bitter a right to have an opinion on balance, then I see no problem with calling him out for bullshitting And don't be naive, all sc2 players are biased, pro or community member or x player on the ladder. My personal opinion would be to think pros are less biased in general however. But wait Gretorp also said something, you say! So for the sake of not leaving anything out. Gretorp adds there is no consistent way for Zerg to be ahead, even or behind This is without scouting. There is no "safe build" due to all the options of Terran (this is quite similar to the start of wol and could somewhat be attributed to zerg's being unfamiliar with all the new options of Terran. Saying something so definitive so early is absurd, though I'm not sure gretorp meant it as such)
Don't care so much about this,as he is an ex pro player obviously i am more biased to consider gretorp's opinions. Regardless he says nothing that saves or backs up bitters argument, and he doesn't care to explain his reasoning either.
Hope that clarified everything.
On a much more subjective note; to add to the reasons I was irritated enough to write that initial post i suppose i should mention that the pulse didn't even talk about zvp and to a certain degree it felt like they were just bitching about Terran with straw arguments. It comes off as jumping on the terran imba bandwagon, without understanding why terran is the strongest race at all.
Now that is it, final post about this(I hope). A lot of what I said is unsurprisingly subjective but in my first post I explained that I merely felt that the balance discussion did little good for the show, I greatly enjoy the show, have nothing against Bitter personally and if he wants to have a detailed and informed discussion regarding balance on the show I think that would be great. Of course I would suggest he invited guest pros, because that adds more quality for the viewer and more legitimacy to the discussion. But that isn't what happened in the last episode and I felt that half assed balance whining detracted from the experience.
In my second post I hopefully described how I felt that it came across as bullshitting and whining, comparing it to the discussion on sotg. Though I admit I find myself passionate lately about the topic of non-pros discussing balance so perhaps It came across as a bit of a rant. It isn't a post I really wanted to write in the first place.
I urge the rest of you to not derail the thread into some discussion of balance or whatever . final summary/tldr:
Love the pulse found it lacking in one area, I'm certain you guys will improve it. Don't want to turn this thread into "should community member be allowed to comment on balance". I voiced my opinion other posters clearly have different opinions. Either way the show could only benefit from pro player insight in regards to balance discussion. Thanks for reading and I hope you at least consider my perspective.
On February 25 2013 15:56 Rorra wrote: Currently watching episode 5. Great show, one criticism;
Please leave the balance discussion to the pros, no one wants to listen to Bitter balance whining about issues he's simply,(statistically, objectively) not a good enough player to comment on. When Bitter starts a sentence with "the thing about Zerg versus Terran is"(literally telling the audience HOW IT IS) it makes me want to stop watching. He has zero authority when it comes to something like that regardless of whether hes right or wrong. This balance complaining only detracts from the show, there is simply much more detailed and thorough discussion regarding game balance happening elsewhere.(sotg, player streams, interviews/articles with players etc.)
Of course part of the show is to comment on the patches but that does not need to lead into that mess of a discussion that it did. If Bitter is stressed with zvt on the ladder he can keep that to himself and be professional. If you want to talk about game balance on the pulse, please invite a professional player on the show to discuss it so it can have some substance.
One criticism of TL members and SC2 fans:
Its is very, very normal for people to have a deep understanding of a sport, without playing it professionally or being bad at the sport themselves. See, oh ... every major network and every major sport that isn't SC2, which is populated with an endless array of coaches, scouts, and on-air talent that all SUCK at the game they study and analyze.
In fact, not only do these non-players provide valuable analysis and insight, but often, they provide a less biased and less subjective opinion than professional players, because they can separate the limitations of their play from how the game works.
i disagree. being a guy who was a catcher from the age of 6 and played baseball at its highest levels in Ontario... i can tell u this...
Gregg_Zaun brings a depth of knowledge to the Toronto Blue Jay broadcasts that any other "broadcasting specialist" with no playing experience can not touch with a 10 foot pole.
There is knowledge you get from experiencing the game that you just do not get as an outside observer. His opinions about how to use the fastball to set up a hitter can only be generated by playing the game.
Jamie Campbell flat out has no clue. To any one who has never played baseball he "sounds logical". He speaks very clearly with a commanding baritone. He always wears the best looking suits and has a real "stage presence". The guy is clueless. Fortunately, he knows this and lets Gregg do the heavy lifting and pretty much plays the role of "Clutch" which is a smart move on his part.
No matter the level of analysis, I surely love how these shows both entertain and educate lesser players, while creating more exposure for both NASL and its figures. I'll defiantly try watch them live, In the meantime I'll be checking out those VODS!
On February 25 2013 15:56 Rorra wrote: Currently watching episode 5. Great show, one criticism;
Please leave the balance discussion to the pros, no one wants to listen to Bitter balance whining about issues he's simply,(statistically, objectively) not a good enough player to comment on. When Bitter starts a sentence with "the thing about Zerg versus Terran is"(literally telling the audience HOW IT IS) it makes me want to stop watching. He has zero authority when it comes to something like that regardless of whether hes right or wrong. This balance complaining only detracts from the show, there is simply much more detailed and thorough discussion regarding game balance happening elsewhere.(sotg, player streams, interviews/articles with players etc.)
Of course part of the show is to comment on the patches but that does not need to lead into that mess of a discussion that it did. If Bitter is stressed with zvt on the ladder he can keep that to himself and be professional. If you want to talk about game balance on the pulse, please invite a professional player on the show to discuss it so it can have some substance.
One criticism of TL members and SC2 fans:
Its is very, very normal for people to have a deep understanding of a sport, without playing it professionally or being bad at the sport themselves. See, oh ... every major network and every major sport that isn't SC2, which is populated with an endless array of coaches, scouts, and on-air talent that all SUCK at the game they study and analyze.
In fact, not only do these non-players provide valuable analysis and insight, but often, they provide a less biased and less subjective opinion than professional players, because they can separate the limitations of their play from how the game works.
And guess what? Even fans in other sports are allowed to have opinions, too! It's not at all abnormal for some fan to share his opinions on how his favorite team is playing and what they can do to improve! They don't need to be a 'professional' or 'Masters' level players or have 500,000 XP or anything!
And the craziest thing is this — even though their opinion isn't certified, sponsored or cosign by some authoritative body, sometimes they're actually right!
TLDR; Mr. Bitter certainly understands the game well enough to have an opinion, and even he didn't, he's entitled to it.
Defacer, I am with you 100% on this. No one questions Artosis on his game knowlage, even though he is not a professional player. In fact, I don't like any professional player opinions on balance because they are mostly self serving and only address their specific problems with a matchup or that is prevents their specific style(example: Greedy macro play) from being successful.
There isn't a single professional coach the NFL that can and sometimes never could have, played as well as their players. They are stillt he experts in the game. Even tennis players have coaches, who are less skilled than them. People need to embrace the idea that professional players are not the only or best place to get opinions on balance.
On February 26 2013 02:22 Plansix wrote: There isn't a single professional coach the NFL that can and sometimes never could have, played as well as their players. They are stillt he experts in the game. Even tennis players have coaches, who are less skilled than them. People need to embrace the idea that professional players are not the only or best place to get opinions on balance.
the best coach in the history of the NFL is Vince Lombardi. how long did he play Football? he lived ate and breathed Football from the age of 11... the 1st year you were allowed to play football back then. until the great depression hit and there was no such thing as professional football
he played a fuck-tonne of football at its highest levels before he started his coaching career
i could talk about Scottie Bowman next.. but i'm too lazy to drive an 18 wheel mack truck through the holes in this argument.
Is there a full-length VOD for episode 5 yet? I know they mess up the youtube versions with a billion 2-3 minute parts, but usually I could always find a full twitch recording. I can't seem to find the twitch VOD.
On February 26 2013 02:22 Plansix wrote: There isn't a single professional coach the NFL that can and sometimes never could have, played as well as their players. They are stillt he experts in the game. Even tennis players have coaches, who are less skilled than them. People need to embrace the idea that professional players are not the only or best place to get opinions on balance.
the best coach in the history of the NFL is Vince Lombardi. how long did he play Football? he lived ate and breathed Football from the age of 11... the 1st year you were allowed to play football back then. until the great depression hit and there was no such thing as professional football
he played a fuck-tonne of football at its highest levels before he started his coaching career
i could talk about Scottie Bowman next.. but i'm too lazy to drive an 18 wheel mack truck through the holes in this argument.
Which still doesn't discredit the point. Saying that some top coaches were also top players does not mean that only top players have expert knowledge of a game.
On February 26 2013 11:23 Femeny wrote: Is there a full-length VOD for episode 5 yet? I know they mess up the youtube versions with a billion 2-3 minute parts, but usually I could always find a full twitch recording. I can't seem to find the twitch VOD.
Can I say, from the first episode it seemed like it was just going to go down the path of yet another show of a few dudes mic'd up talking about things that happened that week (just add in a little production.) But it's been steadily improving and as of last Sunday's show I was BLOWN AWAY by the overall organization of the show. The different sections are varied and well thought out, love the cuts of replays from important matches I missed instead of just a dry score run through, and as always NASL production is great.
It's now turned into something I'm really looking forward to on my Sunday morning. GJ guys.
Once again I want to comment that this is a great show and from episode 1 to 5 there is great improvement shown. Great job to everyone involved. I miss the morning show(sleeping to due late Saturday nights) but I usually catch the rebroadcast or VOD.
On a much more subjective note; to add to the reasons I was irritated enough to write that initial post i suppose i should mention that the pulse didn't even talk about zvp and to a certain degree it felt like they were just bitching about Terran with straw arguments. It comes off as jumping on the terran imba bandwagon, without understanding why terran is the strongest race at all.
I'm not going to quote you're entire post because it's very long, but it's perfectly fine to disagree with Mr. Bitter, his reasoning, or even the quality of the discussion. I was just pointing out that your idea that 'professional players' are the only people qualified to discuss balance or analyze the game is a bit of an overreaction on your part.
And in general, its a fallacy. There are some very successful pro's who I think have a horrible understanding of the game, that rely strictly on risky or abusive play, or have to compensate for their lack of strategy or knowledge with sheer talent and speed. And there's pro's that have a deep understanding of the game, but simply aren't articulate enough to share their knowledge, or only understand it intuitively.
Also, I didn't mean to make you defensive, I was just trying to defend the Bill Simmons, Jeff Van Gundy's and Mr. Bitter's of the world. Saying you need a pro to discuss balance is like saying you need a comedian to tell you what's funny.
There isn't a single professional coach the NFL that can and sometimes never could have, played as well as their players. They are stillt he experts in the game. Even tennis players have coaches, who are less skilled than them. People need to embrace the idea that professional players are not the only or best place to get opinions on balance.
Isaiah Thomas and Michael Jordan were great players ... and notoriously bad coaches, managers and executives. Their strategic advice would essentially be to jump higher, dribble faster and shoot sharper.
Updated with tomorrow's episode information. A special HotS panel will also happen during the pulse with pros ToD, Goswser, and Fuzer during the show so make sure not to miss it!
On March 03 2013 08:21 NASL.tv wrote: Updated with tomorrow's episode information. A special HotS panel will also happen during the pulse with pros ToD, Goswser, and Fuzer during the show so make sure not to miss it!
NASL bros, i've been greatly enjoying your show. keep it up.
i'm not sure this 'up to speed' or whatever it's called is really necessary. i might be in the minority here, but e-sports that aren't starcraft are really not interesting to me at all. i don't hate on any e-sport or the people that watch it, but i just don't care. maybe you guys should do a poll or something on whether people care.
I'm glad they did a segment on HoN. It's a good game with a hilariously rabid community with a lot of shittalking all over and drama in the competitive scene. sc2 is fun to watch but it's generally mannered and a bit stale nowadays...HoN is basically "i hope u realize that was halluc" "fuck you" every game. Sometimes you just want to spam GG after a big play. And the team you root for taking the win over another team feels a lot more satisfying after all the back and forth trashtalk.
You need a Terran pro to balance this out properly. This is straying a little into balance whine territory. I know you guys aren't deliberately doing that, but you need a Terran viewpoint to defend his race.
edit: Holy crap, I didn't even realize Fuzer plays Terran. Please disregard the above. Sorry for that.
On March 04 2013 05:57 Godwrath wrote: Meh, the zerg complains. Wait 6/9 months, then talk about balance.
Complaining? Goswser kept saying I don't think it's imbalanced yet we should wait for more games. The only thing that's been agreed to imbalanced is the medivac boost from both zerg and terran and perhaps the ultralisk a bit.
On March 04 2013 05:57 Godwrath wrote: Meh, the zerg complains. Wait 6/9 months, then talk about balance.
Complaining? Goswser kept saying I don't think it's imbalanced yet we should wait for more games. The only thing that's been agreed to imbalanced is the medivac boost from both zerg and terran and perhaps the ultralisk a bit.
Are you really watching the same show?
Probably not, i don't have my zerg-colored glasses on.
On March 04 2013 06:59 Zenbrez wrote: People have been hyping Lucifron a ton lately, but I just don't see it.
Well, there's the fact that he's a foreigner, and a Terran in addition. People want him to succeed because there are so few solid foreign Terrans.
But he's shown pretty solid results, especially against other foreigners, and he won IPL Dice recently very convincingly (crushing Grubby and Scarlett easily), as well as doing well in the RSL (won his group and beat Oz).
Frodan is just laying down the smack in this segment. Lol
Did I miss something regarding Life/hitman award thing? I haven't been following the scene as closely lately due to work but hitman wouldn't even make my top 10 zerg award. Is this some joke that went over my head?
On March 04 2013 08:30 Footler wrote: Did I miss something regarding Life/hitman award thing? I haven't been following the scene as closely lately due to work but hitman wouldn't even make my top 10 zerg award. Is this some joke that went over my head?
Dan was just teasing me. Hitman is a player I've been over-hyping for months now.
Really enjoyed the Heart of the Swarm/balance discussion in the latest episode, I felt like it was handled much more professionally than the last time, and I'm glad you guys considered my criticisms and the opinions of others in this thread.
Though I must admit in retrospect that I didn't handle my criticism very well at all and I got a bit carried away, and I'm genuinely sorry about that. Next time I'll try to be more coherent and constructive in my posting rather than taking the easy way out and ranting/jumping to conclusions.
Love what you guys are doing, keep up the good work.
On March 04 2013 08:30 Footler wrote: Did I miss something regarding Life/hitman award thing? I haven't been following the scene as closely lately due to work but hitman wouldn't even make my top 10 zerg award. Is this some joke that went over my head?
Dan was just teasing me. Hitman is a player I've been over-hyping for months now.
Ahh, ok thanks for the response. Btw The Pulse is awesome! Keep it up!
Just watched episode 6(first one watched). Seems when they were talking about hots balance basically the entire cast of hosts and most of the pros brought in were very biased against terran. I think it's because all of them play other races and now that terran isn't essentially useless (like at the end of WoL) they are getting too bent out of shape about it because they can't faceroll all terrans anymore and that terrans actually have viable options available now. I would like to see more top terran pros on this discussion because i feel this show is being biased about this situation. personally i play random at the masters level and i feel hots is quite balanced, much more than WoL.
I just want to say that I was really impressed by the quality of balance discussion today. Mr. Bitter moderated it very well and Gretorp and Rotterdam pitched in with some great observation.
To be honest, this is the kind of show format that I think Gretorp can contribute the most to. I always saw him more as an thoughtful analyst than a color commentator.
On March 04 2013 14:00 JBlaze187 wrote: Just watched episode 6(first one watched). Seems when they were talking about hots balance basically the entire cast of hosts and most of the pros brought in were very biased against terran. I think it's because all of them play other races and now that terran isn't essentially useless (like at the end of WoL) they are getting too bent out of shape about it because they can't faceroll all terrans anymore and that terrans actually have viable options available now. I would like to see more top terran pros on this discussion because i feel this show is being biased about this situation. personally i play random at the masters level and i feel hots is quite balanced, much more than WoL.
Me and Fuzer both main as Terran. >>your argument is invalid.
Wow, Sundance making an appearance there is interesting, since NASL is basically his competitor. Oh well, hopefully NASL and MLG can have a better working relationship than IPL and MLG do.
On March 11 2013 04:15 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Rotterdam with his passive/agressive complaints against terrans, that's yummy but seriously, asking for a patch prior mlg is a terrible idea
What why? If the game is broken then it needs to be fixed. There's no reason to wait if something obviously needs to be done. That hesitancy by the pros to criticize balance resulted in game failures during the period of the 1/1/1 dominance (or Puma's relevance) and swarm season.
Good on Rottie for not passing on the usual PR line that we get like we did with DJ wheat's show after Puma's 1/1/1 IEM victory.
At first I was excited but now I just breeze through the VOD really quickly. For me it’s the combination of scriptedness, pointless content, fluffy answers and for the most part obnoxious hosts. Oh well. EDIT:spelling
I like the idea for a PTI sort of show. The informal show was nice but I like the ESPN sportcenter sort of feel that the other shows have, just my personal preference. Between this, ITG and LO3 I keep my esports news fresh all week long. Oh and SOTG when it comes on too. Great questions for Alex Garfield as well, basically no fluff there. Keep up the good work, I hope more people tune in.
You guys are doing a great job, keep it up. And if you could possibly move your "water breaks" to later at night, it would help my productivity on sundays.
Gotta say, this show has the best production out there for what it is. I can only hope NASL is making money as a company. I'm a huge fan of what they're doing for the community.
At the end of Rotterdam's stream last last night/early this morning, he commented on having to get up and work in the morning. I would assume he was referring to the Pulse or some other NASL content.
Meh, didn't like this format too much. Discussion was good, but this point system and Frodan as a random things shouting, from the discussion excluded moderator pulled it down in my opinion. I like the normal shows way more.
Ok, i think this discussion format was worth a try, but it's not working. Some of the positions feel overly artificial just to create some diversity of opinions.
Currently watching the HotS lore show. NASL is quite impressive with the amount of work they do and the variety of it. All these little segments with the voice actors and stuff really add to the experience. It's great to see the behind the scenes characters that make the game possible. And Clutch is an awesome host; you can tell he really puts in the effort in the work he does. All in all, keep up the great work!
I really loved what Clutch was just saying about how everything's "epic" these days. It's one of the most overused words for years and years now, though I really have no qualms about overusing the term "epic fail." :p
It's also nice to see people that are excited for the lore (yes, I realize they have a vested interest, yada yada). The chemistry between all four casters plus Clutch and Lauren has been great for a long time now.
Pretty good talk on WCS NA and what went wrong exactly, having only one qualifier really exacerbated all the issues, since this was the only chance for players to get in. And since the Challenger league qualifiers are invite only based off this past qualifier (wut) it makes it even worse.
Thx you NASL for telling the truth and criticising MLG for what it is. Absolutely crap. I'm glad there is still some integrity in this industry because it seems everyone works together and try to hide any mistakes that is made
On April 22 2013 10:18 Inty wrote: Is NASL going to switch back to the old format anytime soon? Not a huge fan of the debate format and miss gretorp and clutch!
I agree.
The system does promote debates and arguments (though sometimes it does feel artificial and "arguing for the sake of arguing"; edit - though it is much better these last episodes than the first episode the format debuted in) but the old way was more simpler and just straight to the point (if anyone disagreed or agreed with anything, they just said it).
I prefer the old "more casual but still straight to the point" way than this current format but I guess it depends on how others view this format vs the others (this is just my personal preference).
we figured it out in case you havent seen http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=408859¤tpage=22#424 unknown whether or not it was an error on MLG's end originally and brought over to Liquipedia when copying their bracket or Liquipedia's error alone. Hwangsin says he thinks he saw it on the MLG bracket that way. no way to tell. It was wrong though and he was supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time in that bracket. basically Miya and Apocalypse got switched. MLG corrected the bracket
On April 22 2013 12:24 caradoc wrote: Bitter nailed it completely. WCS NA is an absolute tragedy.
Its wasn't just a bad broadcast, it was a completely mismanaged tournament. Like Mr. Bitter said, it's these kind of horrible, amateur experiences that actually push great players into early retirement. T
This might one of the few events that has happened, like as PPSL, that might have actually hurt the scene and esports.
Seeing how the NA WSC qualifiers completely screwed over the Chinese and NA communities, does NASL have any ideas or plans to tailor their league to help serve or develop these communities?
On April 22 2013 11:06 Wunder wrote: Pretty good talk on WCS NA and what went wrong exactly, having only one qualifier really exacerbated all the issues, since this was the only chance for players to get in. And since the Challenger league qualifiers are invite only based off this past qualifier (wut) it makes it even worse.
Actually, as much as I love complaining about the MLG for what it did to the Chinese players, the Code A qualifier invites are not soletly based on the Code S qualifiers. It's just if you made if far in the Code S qualifier, you are guaranteed an invite into the Code A qualifier, which makes sense. In fact, I think somebody from the MLG "promised" all the Chinese players that they will receive an invite (not sure whether that is worth much though, only time will tell).
On April 22 2013 12:24 caradoc wrote: Bitter nailed it completely. WCS NA is an absolute tragedy.
Its wasn't just a bad broadcast, it was a completely mismanaged tournament. [...]
Actually, the broadcast in of itself wasn't that bad, much better than the ESL, it's just that they lacked other streams the viewer can fall back to in case there is downtime or in case the game shown were boring. All in all, I'd say that the ESL handled the stream worse, but they were not preposterous enough to think they would do it perfectly and allowed other smaller streams to cover it as well, which the viewers could fall back to.
The Pulse episode with Mr. Bitter's honest remarks about WCS NA hit the bullseye in my book ... at the time of its recording it would be hard to put better than he did.
Was looking for that, and stumbled upon some hilarity at 1hr14minutes-
OMG Stephano is hilarious as a caster. He hits all the US stereotypes of the French speaking their mind and being way critical in such a funny way. Keep up the great entertainment gents!
On April 22 2013 21:40 Tminus____ wrote: The Pulse episode with Mr. Bitter's honest remarks about WCS NA hit the bullseye in my book ... at the time of its recording it would be hard to put better than he did.
Ya, they did a great job with explaining how I felt about it as well, couldn't agree more with what he said.
Stephano is hilarious too, great stuff...no one likes greg
Good show the other day, really drove the points about MLG home. Took some balls for that too! Everyone else is content to just say "its their tournament..."
I watched the bitter getting real with MLG WCS thing. And he is right, I am glad he is saying that and I hope other popular shows also take a stance. But in all honestly where is the next season of NASL? Like there is no news?????? You have a sick looking studio, very good casters all ready to go.
On May 06 2013 22:44 KanoCoke wrote: Maybe shit got cancelled after they thoroughly bashed WCS NA, which, while it was a good thing wasn't good for the image of e-sports.
surely blizzard couldnt tell them to stop talking about the game D;
I've seen the picture but i thought thats only the wood behind the actual wall (dont know what its called in english, sorry..) :D
But I guess we will see...cannot imagine seeing Rotti cast WoT to be honest :O
He won't. Rotti already announced that he is sticking to sc2 come what may. OTOH Mrbitter didn't commit to anything and I imagine he will follow Kevin Knocke in dropping casting completely.
I've seen the picture but i thought thats only the wood behind the actual wall (dont know what its called in english, sorry..) :D
But I guess we will see...cannot imagine seeing Rotti cast WoT to be honest :O
He won't. Rotti already announced that he is sticking to sc2 come what may. OTOH Mrbitter didn't commit to anything and I imagine he will follow Kevin Knocke in dropping casting completely.
Good to hear... Maybe he will return to ESL to cast WCS EU alongside Kaelaris? I would totally love that :D
On May 27 2013 19:56 pmp10 wrote: OTOH Mrbitter didn't commit to anything and I imagine he will follow Kevin Knocke in dropping casting completely.
Kevin Knocke works for Blizzard now, along with other ex-IPL staff, they produce Top 5 WCS plays, for example. Does that mean KK has dropped casting completely? AFAIK he only dropped playing Magic: The Gathering.
I've seen the picture but i thought thats only the wood behind the actual wall (dont know what its called in english, sorry..) :D
But I guess we will see...cannot imagine seeing Rotti cast WoT to be honest :O
He won't. Rotti already announced that he is sticking to sc2 come what may. OTOH Mrbitter didn't commit to anything and I imagine he will follow Kevin Knocke in dropping casting completely.
I've seen the picture but i thought thats only the wood behind the actual wall (dont know what its called in english, sorry..) :D
But I guess we will see...cannot imagine seeing Rotti cast WoT to be honest :O
He won't. Rotti already announced that he is sticking to sc2 come what may. OTOH Mrbitter didn't commit to anything and I imagine he will follow Kevin Knocke in dropping casting completely.
o.O
Internet speculation never fails to deliver.
no point in whining about speculations when it's in your power to end them :D
I've seen the picture but i thought thats only the wood behind the actual wall (dont know what its called in english, sorry..) :D
But I guess we will see...cannot imagine seeing Rotti cast WoT to be honest :O
He won't. Rotti already announced that he is sticking to sc2 come what may. OTOH Mrbitter didn't commit to anything and I imagine he will follow Kevin Knocke in dropping casting completely.
o.O
Internet speculation never fails to deliver.
bring back 12 weeks with the pros! that shit was so good.
Would be nice to know what NASL is up to considering things have been silent for weeks now as far as if they are going to continue doing what they do or w/e. Haven't seen an update really since they did dream-hack open casting.
Is this officially dead or what? I greatly enjoyed the show, and NASL S1, S3-4! My only problem was that they messed up their show times to appease the EU crowd.
Also, good move sending the NASL Sound Guy to MLG.
So does anyone else think the show where they had the drinking games going on that they had just found out about the whole WCS thing and were kind of saying "fuck it, at least we'll have a good time."
Hope once things settle, The Pulse will at least return in some form.