• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:14
CEST 03:14
KST 10:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!34Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome
Brood War
General
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! BW General Discussion Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Browser Invoker Combo Trainer & Speedrun Simulator Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8424 users

Regarding the Defwin against stephano at HSC VI - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 17 18 19 Next All
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-21 21:48:38
December 21 2012 21:46 GMT
#41
While I respect your right to fight for the advantages you earned, and I do agree you played very well in both games, you, in my opinion HAD NOT WON.

Firstly, the engagement where you won took place on your side of the map, very close to your production and with more fungal energy.
This time you where attacking into his side of the map, his production, in a better flank for him and with limited vision on your part and in range of his queens as well (more DPS and transfuse).
Yes you where going to kill his 4th, yes you had a bank, but you didn't have the larva to immediately make use of it.

However this all comes down to the assumption now that you would have 100% won that fight, or fought cost efficiently, and this is your folly. Just because you won a similar fight in a more favorable conditions earlier, does not mean you will be able to execute the same fight again, especially in slightly worst conditions.

I see 3 possible outcomes.
1 You win the fight and thus the game decisively.
2 You lose the fight and even though you are not out, you still lose enough material to give Stephano a chance to come back.
Depending on the magnitude of your loss you could give Stephano even better of a chance if you lose all your infestors.
3 You retreat to not engage in a bad position, you can come back later with a stronger army but this buys time for Stephano to establish better defenses, position and economy.

All of these have a chance to occur and since it all depends on each player's execution, (which is a random variable), then it is impossible to give you a clear win. Matter of fact, Stephano still had an army and intact production with good defensive position.

You where ahead, for sure, but not insurmountably ahead.

I understand your point of view and where you are coming from, but I disagree with how this was handled, you could have presented your case in a calmer and more concise way.

Anyway, gl and hf tomorrow, no ill feelings for what happened, just a sour taste left in my mouth.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
eurTsItniH
Profile Joined January 2012
887 Posts
December 21 2012 21:47 GMT
#42
You were definitely ahead, but I really think it should've been a regame because it was not a 100% win.
But the biggest issue was the way you acted on stream to be honest.
Jeremyy
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada182 Posts
December 21 2012 21:48 GMT
#43
no worries xlord! gl tomorrow!
Where's the pleasure in that?
Prplppleatr
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1518 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-21 21:51:17
December 21 2012 21:49 GMT
#44
Not needed. What is done is done. The decision was made and whether you agree with it or not it was the decision that was agreed upon by knowledgeable individuals. Best of luck!

PS I honestly don't think this is threadworthy, the decision was made and there's no going back. Everyone here has already, likely, expressed an opinion in the LR thread so kind of a waste. While it may be appreciated that you made a post, you don't have to, it was not your decision.
🥇 Prediction Contest - Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Rachnar
Profile Joined October 2010
France1526 Posts
December 21 2012 21:49 GMT
#45
I've seen people come back from FAR FUTHER behind then stephano was, there should always be a regame.
"What if it's a triple DK ?" "Then we cry" "Prepare your handkerchief then ..."
Seiniyta
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium1815 Posts
December 21 2012 21:49 GMT
#46
On December 22 2012 06:46 Destructicon wrote:
While I respect your right to fight for the advantages you earned, and I do agree you played very well in both games, you, in my opinion HAD NOT WON.

Firstly, the engagement where you won took place on your side of the map, very close to your production and with more fungal energy.
This time you where attacking into his side of the map, his production, in a better flank for him and with limited vision on your part and in range of his queens as well (more DPS and transfuse).
Yes you where going to kill his 4th, yes you had a bank, but you didn't have the larva to immediately make use of it.

However this all comes down to the assumption now that you would have 100% won that fight, or fought cost efficiently, and this is your folly. Just because you won a similar fight in a more favorable conditions earlier, does not mean you will be able to execute the same fight again, especially in slightly worst conditions.

I see 3 possible outcomes.
1 You win the fight and thus the game decisively.
2 You lose the fight and even though you are not out, you still lose enough material to give Stephano a chance to come back.
Depending on the magnitude of your loss you could give Stephano even better of a chance if you lose all your infestors.
3 You retreat to not engage in a bad position, you can come back later with a stronger army but this buys time for Stephano to establish better defenses, position and economy.

All of these have a chance to occur and since it all depends on each player's execution, (which is a random variable), then it is impossible to give you a clear win. Matter of fact, Stephano still had an army and intact production with good defensive position.

You where ahead, for sure, but not insurmountably ahead.

I understand your point of view and where you are coming from, but I disagree with how this was handled, you could have presented your case in a calmer and more concise way.


Sure, easy to say when you're not the person in that very situation. It's very understandable how Xlord reacted. He has all the right to defend his case for a win. Just as much as Stephano can make a case for a regame. If the Admins would have done their job and had made a decision it would have been better for almost everyone. Now it unnececarily went into some drama.
Pokemon Master
ian952
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada124 Posts
December 21 2012 21:50 GMT
#47
XlorD should say sry to MMA too. I believe had Stephano won against XlorD, MMA could have had a better chance to advance..
...
Sooooil
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany497 Posts
December 21 2012 21:50 GMT
#48
On December 22 2012 06:46 Destructicon wrote:
Firstly, the engagement where you won took place on your side of the map, very close to your production and with more fungal energy.


Stephano didn't even have infestors when XlorD was at his base, Other than that I agree with you on a lot of points you made.
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
December 21 2012 21:50 GMT
#49
"This is fucking shit, it's a def win"

Is not really acceptable language to use when talking to the people deciding if you go through to the next round or not.
@followMVT
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8096 Posts
December 21 2012 21:50 GMT
#50
On December 22 2012 06:47 eurTsItniH wrote:
You were definitely ahead--
But the biggest issue was the way you acted on stream to be honest.

I have to agree with this, if you had acted respectfully on the stream and when Stephano said he will give the win you would've thanked him instead of continuing to argue you wouldn't be getting so much hate right now. Of course there would be those who always whine about this stuff but at least you wouldn't have made yourself look bad.
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-21 21:51:43
December 21 2012 21:51 GMT
#51
@XlorD, show the HSC admins this thread and point out that its their fault for causing all this drama in the first place!
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
December 21 2012 21:53 GMT
#52
On December 22 2012 06:50 ian952 wrote:
XlorD should say sry to MMA too. I believe had Stephano won against XlorD, MMA could have had a better chance to advance..


Yeah, no.

Xlord doesn't need to apologize for shit, THE ADMINS ENFORCE THE RULES. If XlorD swayed the outcome with his arguments, then the ADMINS are the villians here.

Anyone blaming XlorD for this is quite literally stupid.
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8320 Posts
December 21 2012 21:55 GMT
#53
On December 22 2012 06:40 synd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2012 06:35 Kenny_oro wrote:
You're not seen as bad mannered for playing a good game. The disconnect wasn't your fault.

But what's the pont of arguing with the casters which already were forced in the uncomfortable situation to make a decission.

You should've just leaned back to wait for the decission instead of arguing with TLO on stream like a madman.

If you're that confident in your skill - why not just take the 20 and extend it to the BO5?

Nobody argued about your lead in that game - But a lead doesn't mean freewin. You should know that.

TL;DR version - "I say that you aren't bad mannered but arguing like a gypsy at a market for a free win, means that you are indeed a bad mannered player relying on free wins"
Yep, I totally support that thinking too, Kenny_oro


Indeed, it wouldn't even be an issue (on XLord's end at least) if he didn't rage to influence the judge's decision.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
Nick_54
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2230 Posts
December 21 2012 21:56 GMT
#54
Well said Xlord I completely agree with you. Just ignore the Stephano fanboys that keep bitching and moaning even though he got through.

If theres anyone to blame its the HSC admins for putting everyone in this situation.
tribulator
Profile Joined February 2011
774 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-21 21:57:08
December 21 2012 21:56 GMT
#55
There were some problems in the decision making process. For a lot of players, I wouldn't call it a regame... however, we kinda have to take the player into account. We're dealing with stephano here. We've seen him time and time again pull off some of the most cost effective shit you can possibly do in the game. He stays His chances were slim, but there was a potential he could have done it.

That said, the biggest folly was allowing you (xlord) anywhere near the people trying to make the decision, especially when you couldn't keep your cool and were arguing every point they'd try to make. In every other sport, whether you're right or wrong, when you start arguing, in the manner you were, with the admins/refs while they're trying to make a decision that tends to end a technical foul or even ejection from the game. The admins should have had control of that.

You played well, but that whole decision making process was a joke.
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
December 21 2012 21:56 GMT
#56
On December 22 2012 06:55 TheDougler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2012 06:40 synd wrote:
On December 22 2012 06:35 Kenny_oro wrote:
You're not seen as bad mannered for playing a good game. The disconnect wasn't your fault.

But what's the pont of arguing with the casters which already were forced in the uncomfortable situation to make a decission.

You should've just leaned back to wait for the decission instead of arguing with TLO on stream like a madman.

If you're that confident in your skill - why not just take the 20 and extend it to the BO5?

Nobody argued about your lead in that game - But a lead doesn't mean freewin. You should know that.

TL;DR version - "I say that you aren't bad mannered but arguing like a gypsy at a market for a free win, means that you are indeed a bad mannered player relying on free wins"
Yep, I totally support that thinking too, Kenny_oro


Indeed, it wouldn't even be an issue (on XLord's end at least) if he didn't rage to influence the judge's decision.

And it wouldn't have had a chance to be an issue if the admins were remotely professional
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
December 21 2012 21:57 GMT
#57
On December 22 2012 06:53 dcemuser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2012 06:50 ian952 wrote:
XlorD should say sry to MMA too. I believe had Stephano won against XlorD, MMA could have had a better chance to advance..


Yeah, no.

Xlord doesn't need to apologize for shit, THE ADMINS ENFORCE THE RULES. If XlorD swayed the outcome with his arguments, then the ADMINS are the villians here.

Anyone blaming XlorD for this is quite literally stupid.


I agree with this, its basically the Admin's fault.

Apart from that I'm done discussing this issue, I presented my points in this thread and the HSC LR one, as clearly and cleanly as possible without any malice or ill will.

I merely wanted to point out to people that, despite how far ahead Xlord was, it wasn't a definitive win, I hope they take that into consideration and don't resort to "Xlord had that game won, you're an idiot".

Hopefully something good comes out of this, like better admining next time and clearer rules.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
December 21 2012 21:58 GMT
#58
On December 22 2012 06:56 tribulator wrote:
There were some problems in the decision making process. For a lot of players, I wouldn't call it a regame... however, we kinda have to take the player into account. We're dealing with stephano here. We've seen him time and time again pull off some of the most cost effective shit you can possibly do in the game. He stays His chances were slim, but there was a potential he could have done it.

That said, the biggest folly was allowing you (xlord) anywhere near the people trying to make the decision, especially when you couldn't keep your cool and were arguing every point they'd try to make. In every other sport, whether you're right or wrong, when you start arguing, in the manner you were, with the admins/refs while they're trying to make a decision that tends to end a technical foul or even ejection from the game. The admins should have had control of that.

You played well, but that whole decision making process was a joke.


rules apply for everyone you don't make exception for a player lol.
when flash loses a game we should do a regame because there was obviously a problem lol.
Zest fanboy.
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8096 Posts
December 21 2012 21:59 GMT
#59
On December 22 2012 06:57 Destructicon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2012 06:53 dcemuser wrote:
On December 22 2012 06:50 ian952 wrote:
XlorD should say sry to MMA too. I believe had Stephano won against XlorD, MMA could have had a better chance to advance..


Yeah, no.

Xlord doesn't need to apologize for shit, THE ADMINS ENFORCE THE RULES. If XlorD swayed the outcome with his arguments, then the ADMINS are the villians here.

Anyone blaming XlorD for this is quite literally stupid.


I agree with this, its basically the Admin's fault.

Apart from that I'm done discussing this issue, I presented my points in this thread and the HSC LR one, as clearly and cleanly as possible without any malice or ill will.

I merely wanted to point out to people that, despite how far ahead Xlord was, it wasn't a definitive win, I hope they take that into consideration and don't resort to "Xlord had that game won, you're an idiot".

Hopefully something good comes out of this, like better admining next time and clearer rules.

Yes, hopefully Take will make sure the rules are clear in the future and that the players cannot affect the decision in any way.
Boosebus
Profile Joined December 2012
4 Posts
December 21 2012 22:00 GMT
#60
This is a situation that is 100% blame on Admins.

For me a game always should be a rematch if the game disconnect. ALWAYS. Even if one of the player gives the game away, cuz he was so far behind that player should need to do that ingame, in the game.

The game ain't over until it's over. 200 food vs 24 food and disconnect should still be a rematch.

And that is a rule that should be known to the players BEFORE the tournament starts.

Prev 1 2 3 4 5 17 18 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 46m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
summit1g5376
RuFF_SC2 154
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24523
GuemChi 2500
Artosis 671
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm135
League of Legends
Doublelift4541
Counter-Strike
minikerr81
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor135
Other Games
gofns22314
Liquid`RaSZi2556
JimRising 528
C9.Mang0449
PiGStarcraft282
Livibee121
Mew2King45
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22420
League of Legends
• Stunt254
Other Games
• Scarra854
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
8h 46m
Afreeca Starleague
8h 46m
Monday Night Weeklies
14h 46m
GSL
1d 9h
OSC
1d 11h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 22h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 6
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.