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4713 Posts
While I respect your right to fight for the advantages you earned, and I do agree you played very well in both games, you, in my opinion HAD NOT WON.
Firstly, the engagement where you won took place on your side of the map, very close to your production and with more fungal energy.
This time you where attacking into his side of the map, his production, in a better flank for him and with limited vision on your part and in range of his queens as well (more DPS and transfuse).
Yes you where going to kill his 4th, yes you had a bank, but you didn't have the larva to immediately make use of it.
However this all comes down to the assumption now that you would have 100% won that fight, or fought cost efficiently, and this is your folly. Just because you won a similar fight in a more favorable conditions earlier, does not mean you will be able to execute the same fight again, especially in slightly worst conditions.
I see 3 possible outcomes.
1 You win the fight and thus the game decisively.
2 You lose the fight and even though you are not out, you still lose enough material to give Stephano a chance to come back.
Depending on the magnitude of your loss you could give Stephano even better of a chance if you lose all your infestors.
3 You retreat to not engage in a bad position, you can come back later with a stronger army but this buys time for Stephano to establish better defenses, position and economy.
All of these have a chance to occur and since it all depends on each player's execution, (which is a random variable), then it is impossible to give you a clear win. Matter of fact, Stephano still had an army and intact production with good defensive position.
You where ahead, for sure, but not insurmountably ahead.
I understand your point of view and where you are coming from, but I disagree with how this was handled, you could have presented your case in a calmer and more concise way.
Anyway, gl and hf tomorrow, no ill feelings for what happened, just a sour taste left in my mouth.
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You were definitely ahead, but I really think it should've been a regame because it was not a 100% win.
But the biggest issue was the way you acted on stream to be honest.
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no worries xlord! gl tomorrow!
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Not needed. What is done is done. The decision was made and whether you agree with it or not it was the decision that was agreed upon by knowledgeable individuals. Best of luck!
PS I honestly don't think this is threadworthy, the decision was made and there's no going back. Everyone here has already, likely, expressed an opinion in the LR thread so kind of a waste. While it may be appreciated that you made a post, you don't have to, it was not your decision.
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France1526 Posts
I've seen people come back from FAR FUTHER behind then stephano was, there should always be a regame.
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On December 22 2012 06:46 Destructicon wrote:
While I respect your right to fight for the advantages you earned, and I do agree you played very well in both games, you, in my opinion HAD NOT WON.
Firstly, the engagement where you won took place on your side of the map, very close to your production and with more fungal energy.
This time you where attacking into his side of the map, his production, in a better flank for him and with limited vision on your part and in range of his queens as well (more DPS and transfuse).
Yes you where going to kill his 4th, yes you had a bank, but you didn't have the larva to immediately make use of it.
However this all comes down to the assumption now that you would have 100% won that fight, or fought cost efficiently, and this is your folly. Just because you won a similar fight in a more favorable conditions earlier, does not mean you will be able to execute the same fight again, especially in slightly worst conditions.
I see 3 possible outcomes.
1 You win the fight and thus the game decisively.
2 You lose the fight and even though you are not out, you still lose enough material to give Stephano a chance to come back.
Depending on the magnitude of your loss you could give Stephano even better of a chance if you lose all your infestors.
3 You retreat to not engage in a bad position, you can come back later with a stronger army but this buys time for Stephano to establish better defenses, position and economy.
All of these have a chance to occur and since it all depends on each player's execution, (which is a random variable), then it is impossible to give you a clear win. Matter of fact, Stephano still had an army and intact production with good defensive position.
You where ahead, for sure, but not insurmountably ahead.
I understand your point of view and where you are coming from, but I disagree with how this was handled, you could have presented your case in a calmer and more concise way.
Sure, easy to say when you're not the person in that very situation. It's very understandable how Xlord reacted. He has all the right to defend his case for a win. Just as much as Stephano can make a case for a regame. If the Admins would have done their job and had made a decision it would have been better for almost everyone. Now it unnececarily went into some drama.
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XlorD should say sry to MMA too. I believe had Stephano won against XlorD, MMA could have had a better chance to advance..
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On December 22 2012 06:46 Destructicon wrote:
Firstly, the engagement where you won took place on your side of the map, very close to your production and with more fungal energy.
Stephano didn't even have infestors when XlorD was at his base, Other than that I agree with you on a lot of points you made.
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"This is fucking shit, it's a def win"
Is not really acceptable language to use when talking to the people deciding if you go through to the next round or not.
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On December 22 2012 06:47 eurTsItniH wrote:
You were definitely ahead--
But the biggest issue was the way you acted on stream to be honest.
I have to agree with this, if you had acted respectfully on the stream and when Stephano said he will give the win you would've thanked him instead of continuing to argue you wouldn't be getting so much hate right now. Of course there would be those who always whine about this stuff but at least you wouldn't have made yourself look bad.
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@XlorD, show the HSC admins this thread and point out that its their fault for causing all this drama in the first place!
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On December 22 2012 06:50 ian952 wrote:
XlorD should say sry to MMA too. I believe had Stephano won against XlorD, MMA could have had a better chance to advance..
Yeah, no.
Xlord doesn't need to apologize for shit, THE ADMINS ENFORCE THE RULES. If XlorD swayed the outcome with his arguments, then the ADMINS are the villians here.
Anyone blaming XlorD for this is quite literally stupid.
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On December 22 2012 06:40 synd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 06:35 Kenny_oro wrote:
You're not seen as bad mannered for playing a good game. The disconnect wasn't your fault.
But what's the pont of arguing with the casters which already were forced in the uncomfortable situation to make a decission.
You should've just leaned back to wait for the decission instead of arguing with TLO on stream like a madman.
If you're that confident in your skill - why not just take the 20 and extend it to the BO5?
Nobody argued about your lead in that game - But a lead doesn't mean freewin. You should know that. TL;DR version - "I say that you aren't bad mannered but arguing like a gypsy at a market for a free win, means that you are indeed a bad mannered player relying on free wins" Yep, I totally support that thinking too, Kenny_oro
Indeed, it wouldn't even be an issue (on XLord's end at least) if he didn't rage to influence the judge's decision.
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Well said Xlord I completely agree with you. Just ignore the Stephano fanboys that keep bitching and moaning even though he got through.
If theres anyone to blame its the HSC admins for putting everyone in this situation.
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There were some problems in the decision making process. For a lot of players, I wouldn't call it a regame... however, we kinda have to take the player into account. We're dealing with stephano here. We've seen him time and time again pull off some of the most cost effective shit you can possibly do in the game. He stays His chances were slim, but there was a potential he could have done it.
That said, the biggest folly was allowing you (xlord) anywhere near the people trying to make the decision, especially when you couldn't keep your cool and were arguing every point they'd try to make. In every other sport, whether you're right or wrong, when you start arguing, in the manner you were, with the admins/refs while they're trying to make a decision that tends to end a technical foul or even ejection from the game. The admins should have had control of that.
You played well, but that whole decision making process was a joke.
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On December 22 2012 06:55 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 06:40 synd wrote:On December 22 2012 06:35 Kenny_oro wrote:
You're not seen as bad mannered for playing a good game. The disconnect wasn't your fault.
But what's the pont of arguing with the casters which already were forced in the uncomfortable situation to make a decission.
You should've just leaned back to wait for the decission instead of arguing with TLO on stream like a madman.
If you're that confident in your skill - why not just take the 20 and extend it to the BO5?
Nobody argued about your lead in that game - But a lead doesn't mean freewin. You should know that. TL;DR version - "I say that you aren't bad mannered but arguing like a gypsy at a market for a free win, means that you are indeed a bad mannered player relying on free wins" Yep, I totally support that thinking too, Kenny_oro Indeed, it wouldn't even be an issue (on XLord's end at least) if he didn't rage to influence the judge's decision.
And it wouldn't have had a chance to be an issue if the admins were remotely professional
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4713 Posts
On December 22 2012 06:53 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 06:50 ian952 wrote:
XlorD should say sry to MMA too. I believe had Stephano won against XlorD, MMA could have had a better chance to advance.. Yeah, no. Xlord doesn't need to apologize for shit, THE ADMINS ENFORCE THE RULES. If XlorD swayed the outcome with his arguments, then the ADMINS are the villians here. Anyone blaming XlorD for this is quite literally stupid.
I agree with this, its basically the Admin's fault.
Apart from that I'm done discussing this issue, I presented my points in this thread and the HSC LR one, as clearly and cleanly as possible without any malice or ill will.
I merely wanted to point out to people that, despite how far ahead Xlord was, it wasn't a definitive win, I hope they take that into consideration and don't resort to "Xlord had that game won, you're an idiot".
Hopefully something good comes out of this, like better admining next time and clearer rules.
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On December 22 2012 06:56 tribulator wrote:
There were some problems in the decision making process. For a lot of players, I wouldn't call it a regame... however, we kinda have to take the player into account. We're dealing with stephano here. We've seen him time and time again pull off some of the most cost effective shit you can possibly do in the game. He stays His chances were slim, but there was a potential he could have done it.
That said, the biggest folly was allowing you (xlord) anywhere near the people trying to make the decision, especially when you couldn't keep your cool and were arguing every point they'd try to make. In every other sport, whether you're right or wrong, when you start arguing, in the manner you were, with the admins/refs while they're trying to make a decision that tends to end a technical foul or even ejection from the game. The admins should have had control of that.
You played well, but that whole decision making process was a joke.
rules apply for everyone you don't make exception for a player lol.
when flash loses a game we should do a regame because there was obviously a problem lol.
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On December 22 2012 06:57 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 06:53 dcemuser wrote:On December 22 2012 06:50 ian952 wrote:
XlorD should say sry to MMA too. I believe had Stephano won against XlorD, MMA could have had a better chance to advance.. Yeah, no. Xlord doesn't need to apologize for shit, THE ADMINS ENFORCE THE RULES. If XlorD swayed the outcome with his arguments, then the ADMINS are the villians here. Anyone blaming XlorD for this is quite literally stupid. I agree with this, its basically the Admin's fault. Apart from that I'm done discussing this issue, I presented my points in this thread and the HSC LR one, as clearly and cleanly as possible without any malice or ill will. I merely wanted to point out to people that, despite how far ahead Xlord was, it wasn't a definitive win, I hope they take that into consideration and don't resort to "Xlord had that game won, you're an idiot". Hopefully something good comes out of this, like better admining next time and clearer rules.
Yes, hopefully Take will make sure the rules are clear in the future and that the players cannot affect the decision in any way.
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This is a situation that is 100% blame on Admins.
For me a game always should be a rematch if the game disconnect. ALWAYS. Even if one of the player gives the game away, cuz he was so far behind that player should need to do that ingame, in the game.
The game ain't over until it's over. 200 food vs 24 food and disconnect should still be a rematch.
And that is a rule that should be known to the players BEFORE the tournament starts.
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EPT
