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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
On December 22 2012 20:36 nanaoei wrote: i don't understand, what are you trying to say? He was trying to say that Xlord was ahead enough that it would be a bad call for any ref not to offer him the win especially since he wasn't responsible for the disconnect. | ||
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SinO[Ob]
France898 Posts
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Shade_FR
France378 Posts
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Jetaap
France4814 Posts
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benKrO71
France65 Posts
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Benkestok
Denmark63 Posts
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TaKemE
Denmark1045 Posts
On December 22 2012 07:23 TaKeSeN wrote: Before we were discussing the disconnect live on stream we have been talking to xlord and Stephano offcamera, Well thats the problem you shouldnt be talking to the 2 players about this... most of the time they will be hugely based and you just end up with players looking good/bad to their fans. There is a reason players are not included in the decisions in many major tournaments. It should only be admin's or other pro players who are not based makeing the decision. If Stephano had any real chance to comeback it should a regame and if not Xlord wins and then people wouldnt be mad at Xlord if you made that decision. Also you could clearly se the way Stephano responded on stream he wasent realy happy about it and Xlord got alot of hate that he dident need to get. | ||
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
On December 22 2012 20:54 Benkestok wrote: Stephano just came off as a boss, and well, X-lord as a good zerg player, but thats about it. Sports is about PR man, you should know that. Imagine if you had been the one just saying rematch, you would be the boss, and you fanbase would grow. But instead ya focused on the short term win. I understand why you did it, i just think it was the wrong call. Perception is reality, if ya wanna be a winner, appear as a winner. Wrong. If a person doesn't have enough desire to win and willing to do everything in his power to win fairly, they can't ever become an amazing player. I remember when people bitch about how Naniwar was being disrespectful not trying he know there no possible way for him to advance. Now people are bitching about a player who take the game seriously enough to fight for a win that was fairly and rightfully his. | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1982 Posts
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NeutralDepot
80 Posts
On December 22 2012 21:00 Yamoth wrote: Wrong. If a person doesn't have enough desire to win and willing to do everything in his power to win fairly, they can't ever become an amazing player. I remember when people bitch about how Naniwar was being disrespectful not trying he know there no possible way for him to advance. Now people are bitching about a player who take the game seriously enough to fight for a win that was fairly and rightfully his. To me this is the clearest sign that SC2 as game is actually not interesting or appealing enough to people so they have to go witch hunting, riding bandwagons and opening threads about non-existent controversies. Pretty similar to other sports where the actual sport is largely uninteresting to certain viewers but they feed off related drama and conflicts. Sadly this is not a good perspective for SC2 as an Esport longterm-wise. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On December 22 2012 21:21 NeutralDepot wrote: To me this is the clearest sign that SC2 as game is actually not interesting or appealing enough to people so they have to go witch hunting, riding bandwagons and opening threads about non-existent controversies. Pretty similar to other sports where the actual sport is largely uninteresting to certain viewers but they feed off related drama and conflicts. Sadly this is not a good perspective for SC2 as an Esport longterm-wise. What is this interesting sport that doesn't have drama? Not tennis, not football, not soccer, not basketball, not golf, not ... | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
drama guaranteed | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
They were not going to give the win to Xlord, but then Xlord influenced them and Stephano did not want to get involved in that, so he conceeded. | ||
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BreakeR.
Austria220 Posts
On December 22 2012 21:40 hzflank wrote: The problem was that the players (Xlord and Stephano) were able to influence the decision makers (guys on the couch). If you are going to let TLO, Dimaga and Snute make a decision then the players should not be able to talk with them while they are making their decision. They were not going to give the win to Xlord, but then Xlord influenced them and Stephano did not want to get involved in that, so he conceeded. I agree but i thinkl in this case it was just bad luck. At the GSTL Finals Prime vs. Startale the Coaches were also arguing with the refree and nobody gave a s... | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
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DDie
Brazil2369 Posts
On December 22 2012 20:12 Baptista wrote: During 2012 Summer Olympics a sudden accident shocked the audience. In the middle of a highly anticipated 100m sprint a meteor, 2m in radius, hit the track fully destroying it. Luckly nobody was hurt. At the time of the hit Usain Bolt was 5 meters ahead of his opponents and was sure to win. Everybody knew his lead and skill was substantial and insurmountable. As a result the judges decided not to repeat the run and award Usain the gold medal due to his early lead. That was just stupid. | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On December 22 2012 21:45 hzflank wrote: I also want to add that TLO and Snute were still in the tournament and could potentially meet Xlord or Stephano in later rounds. So if you are going to let players decide, at least use players that are already eliminated. The decision to let TLO decide was indeed abysmal. On top of what you said he is a team member of Stephano in Proleague and a fellow-countryman of XLord. Not that I suggest that TLO would actively let bias influence his decision, but the TO has put him in a very bad place there. | ||
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Nyarly
France1030 Posts
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SinCitta
Germany2127 Posts
The biggest mistake was no official stopped him from talking to the "jury", but nobody was perceptive and witty enough to realize how this was a bad idea when XlorD started explaining himself in the heat of the situation. What I mean is that it's natural for XlorD to start talking but what should have happened is that someone should have stopped him. I don't get why people call XlorD whiny and bitchy (well maybe bitchy is appropriate in a distant sense). He didn't ask that the game was magically given to him. He didn't refuse to play because Stephano was 1min late or something. He asks that he is awarded the win that he earned (from his view). He was defending against a concession made lightly in this point (again, he shouldn't have been allowed to speak at that moment). In my notion of "sportsmanship", it has nothing to do with it either. It would be bad sportsmanship.if he started screaming, fighting under false pretenses, or if he fought a jury decision after it was decided. Sportsmanship for me doesn't equal giving in on every oppurtunity. This devalues and doesn't respect the competetive spirit of sports. Koreans might do this often, but nobody should be forced to do the same. In important and expectedly close matches, Koreans don't give regames lightly as well. I don't think that calling in a jury is bad in general. We had admin decisions before in esports and most of the time they were fucking awful. Not no-matter-what-decisions-like-that-are-always-bad-awful but awful-awful. See the StarTale vs Prime GSTL finals. Yes, officials rule these kind of things in real sports, but no, an unresumable game that is decided if the leading player doesn't fuck up hard multiple times is not comparable to that. People argue that it should be purely officials ruling because of how they think it should be in an ideal situation but not how things are in actuality, namely that admins are most of the times platinum players at best. They don't decide if a ball has crossed a line, if the time has run out or not, or if a player showed unsportsmanlike behavior, but something they cannot judge well - namely, what would be the expected outcome of the game. In my opinion, the involved players should be able to back off from their position in at any time during the decision taking, but the decision taking process should not depend on it. And the notion of a jury consisting of other players is acceptable. I don't think a jury decision is the best solution for this but it's not a bad idea. However, Dimaga was uncomfortable on casting a vote. What I think would have been better is that the jury should just have been counselling the admins behind closed doors instead, leaving the ultimate decision to the admins. What I wrote in the LR thread as well is that in a pure admin decision, giving a win to XlorD would have created far, far more drama. TaKe is XlorD's discoverer and mentor, the whole tournament is sponsored by XMG. And various people have the perception that Germans are always scheming towards the favor of their countrymen. Giving XlorD a win by pure admin decision is completely off the table because of these circumstances alone which would make a unfair vote. Snute's BO5 idea was probably the best (but it should not be taken too lightly). What could have happened as well is that they delay the decision and play out the third map to see if the decision does even matter (this has strong implications on players' mindset though). Oh and let's hope these things are remedied in HotS with the resume function. | ||
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FrogOfWar
Germany1406 Posts
On December 22 2012 22:00 Nyarly wrote: Isn't this a non issue ? I think so. This comes up over and over (in BW too, remember power outage?) and when the situation arises, there is no satisfying solution. It wasn't handled optimally, but it's over, Stephano is still in and Take said there will be procedures in place next time. Not to mention resume from replay will solve it once and for all from march onwards. Bygones. | ||
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