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[Dec 4] Wings of Liberty Balance patch - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
913 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 46 Next All
CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
December 04 2012 19:58 GMT
#221
Baby steps; I like it.
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
smileface
Profile Joined September 2011
76 Posts
December 04 2012 19:58 GMT
#222
2 days after IPL/GSL zerg fest...

guess that was the straw that broke the camel's back
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
December 04 2012 19:59 GMT
#223
On December 05 2012 03:22 Striding Strider wrote:
While this is a change in the right direction, it doesn't make Infesters more fun to watch.

You cannot change infestors in the way to make them more fun to watch unless you change everything about them. (and need some serious compensations somewhere else, like lets say hydras)
Resistentialism
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada688 Posts
December 04 2012 19:59 GMT
#224
On December 05 2012 04:57 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 04:55 Plansix wrote:
On December 05 2012 04:45 azzih wrote:
Infestor for sure is too strong in certain szenarios and maybe in the lategame. But against some tactics every nerf to infestors will be huge.
Like Protoss Sentry-Immortal-allin or a mech-terran especially in midgame. Both really hard to deal with, already right now. It will be even harder to handle after that nerfs.


Zergs may have to break out one of the 4 units they have not been using due to the infestor being so effective. Maybe its time for the old BL/Ultra tech switch, mid game mutas to abuse mech being slow as crap or considering building units before taking both gasses on their third. Or baneling drops, those were pretty great.

But terrans better build a single mid-game raven to remove creep tumors now, damn it. It comes fully upgraded and is worth the gas cost in mules alone. Plus to get a single hunter seeker missile to bring the fear.

All your suggestions have nothing to do with the problem he said tough. which is sentry immortal allin will be stronger now.


Like the other guy said, though, it only helps bad immortal/sentry 2 base all ins. If Parting is doing it then he gets to your base before your infestors are popping, at least versus most 3hatch zergs.
PolskaGora
Profile Joined May 2011
United States547 Posts
December 04 2012 19:59 GMT
#225
Something that I don't think has been mentioned yet is that the 1/1/1 vs. Protoss could be a lot more deadly now. Say the terran decides to get 3 ravens with HSM instead of banshees, it might be very hard to deal with. But I guess we won't know until the change hits live and people start experimenting.
Tracking treasure down
BounceDJC
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom72 Posts
December 04 2012 20:00 GMT
#226
On December 05 2012 04:49 Daumen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 04:36 BounceDJC wrote:
Oh, so now the game is balanced because Terran will win every game. The Ghost being able to EMP at a range advantage of 1.5 is totally disgusting. It seems like Terran have a way of being able to whine collectively for months until they have an 80% win ratio.

As a Protoss I'm sitting here with a smug grin on my face because Colossus will burn every single infestor that ever comes near. Thermal Lance range 9 vs. Fungal range 8. Feedback Range 9 vs Fungal Growth 8.

I'm facepalming at this patch, it is disgustingly bad.

When did this even get tested?!


Actually Zerg whined a lot to get the Buffs... when did Zerg get ever nerfed? when did Terran ever get buffed? (srsly buffed, not the BattleCruiser speed upgrade)

Also the 1 Range difference is not that huge as you write here, Ghosts Snipe&EMP also have 1 more range than Psi-Storm / Feedback, HT's can Storm/Feedback anyways, its not that this completely shuts them down...


Off the top of my head - and I'm sure I could think of more - neural parasite nerf
A loser isn't someone who falls down, a loser is someone who doesn't get back up
Envy4343
Profile Joined December 2012
United States13 Posts
December 04 2012 20:00 GMT
#227
Step in the right direction. Wonder what this change will do to Code A and Proleague.
Greatness isn't born, it's grown.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
December 04 2012 20:00 GMT
#228
On December 05 2012 04:55 Kyrao wrote:
I think that people worried about this being a huge buff to ravens are forgetting that it still requires 125 energy to use one HSM. HTs for instance would hugely benefit from not having to research storm, since it only requires 75 energy. Ravens will still need to sit around waiting for another 50 energy once they pop... and that's after you get the Corvid reactor upgrade.

The limiting factor for raven usage late-game is two-fold: High energy requirements on all abilities and the need for dedicated infrastructure.

Unless you want to only make a single raven at a time, you would have two otherwise idle tech labs on starports anyway. Just take a miniute to think about this for a second... it's not that people were having trouble because they're sitting around with high-energy ravens just waiting for the upgrade to finish. This change does very little to buff the raven other than encourage people to use them more because of a perceived buff to the unit.

It's not that you just need a starport with tech lab to produce them, you have to get the tech lab to even start the corvid reactor (energy) upgrade in preparation for making them... The whole design of the unit and it's associated tech path is poorly constructed.

Its true that a raven switch isn't much easier to execute, but as a terran player I am pretty excited to see what just 1-2 ravens can accomplish in the early and midgame.

Its just a little more incentive for terran players to keep a tech lab on their starport and keep producing banshees and ravens past the early game harass.
crashpoint
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria44 Posts
December 04 2012 20:01 GMT
#229
JEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS MEEEN VERY good patch its really not that big of a deal but good for PvZ and emp infestors and also raven is perfect love u blizzard and esports <3<3<3<3<3
Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness. - Day9
LavaLava
Profile Joined January 2012
United States235 Posts
December 04 2012 20:01 GMT
#230
On December 05 2012 04:52 GARcher wrote:
Infestor nerf is reasonable. However, I don't think the raven change will do much. The energy cost isn't changed so they are still useless supply until 125 energy. Casting range isn't changed either.

The Infestor nerf helps Ravens. Can't be chain fungaled over open land. They can drop the upgraded Auto Turret and hit the Infestor as long as he's in Fungal range...

you need 5 fungals to kill a Raven, which takes 20 seconds. It takes approx 10 seconds of sustained fire from one auto turret to kill an Infestor. You can probably place 2 in range, right next to each other.

Better to Fungal and just leave.
Ogww
Profile Joined August 2011
Finland224 Posts
December 04 2012 20:01 GMT
#231
They should fix the design of the infestor before the balance T.T
SKDN
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden243 Posts
December 04 2012 20:02 GMT
#232
Time to play the game again
Cattlecruiser
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States340 Posts
December 04 2012 20:02 GMT
#233
Fair enough changes.
I'm not sure about the direction blizzard wants for Terrans.
Marine tank will get a huge buff from these nerfs.
Players will go for more mid-game oriented play. .

Zergs will have a hard time adjusting to the fungle range.
This makes mid-game play stronger, which doesn't make much sense to me.
Blizzard clearly wants to even out the late-game balance, but the infestor nerf will only make mid-game play more prevalent. The raven buff isn't big enough to out weigh the infestor nerfs.

Blizzard should take a different approach to balance changes.
Decrease health on Broodlords
Increase thor damage on huge units
Increase Seeker missile range
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
December 04 2012 20:02 GMT
#234
Infested Terran eggs health down from 100 to 70

Fungal Growth range down from 9 to 8

---

Fuck yeah! I approve as a protoss player.
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
December 04 2012 20:04 GMT
#235
Thumbs up.
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
December 04 2012 20:05 GMT
#236
On December 05 2012 04:59 PolskaGora wrote:
Something that I don't think has been mentioned yet is that the 1/1/1 vs. Protoss could be a lot more deadly now. Say the terran decides to get 3 ravens with HSM instead of banshees, it might be very hard to deal with. But I guess we won't know until the change hits live and people start experimenting.



engage early and force a hsm....run away.....same strat vs raven 1 1 1 before when your trying to force out a pdd
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
December 04 2012 20:06 GMT
#237
I play Zerg, and I like it. I even feel infestor nerf might not be enough. I like how Blizzard is learning.

Recent past patches did
Queen +2 range -> too much buff that changed ZvT forever
Ghost snipe nerf -> go-to unit suddenly demoted to don't-go-to unit
Phoenix upgrade -> achieved basically nothing

Compared to these past ones, this patch is more promising. Blizzard is very careful not to nerf a unit to death, yet they make sure the patch does something. I'd say infestor is still too mighty, but we'll see how it works out. I hope "my race nerfed = bad, my race buffed = good" mentality that hurts SC2 slowly goes away as well.
neoghaleon55
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7435 Posts
December 04 2012 20:06 GMT
#238
Templar Feedback and Ghost Snipes now actually counter infestors
lol
moo...for DRG
GARcher
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada294 Posts
December 04 2012 20:07 GMT
#239
On December 05 2012 05:06 neoghaleon55 wrote:
Templar Feedback and Ghost Snipes now actually counter infestors
lol


Naw. The only thing that counters infestors is more infestors.
ZvZ is like a shitty apartment: Roaches and Fungal Growth everywhere.
Zahir
Profile Joined March 2012
United States947 Posts
December 04 2012 20:07 GMT
#240
Just gonna throw this out here...
Poll: Blizz should try to make more fundamental changes to WoL...

Yes, make fungal slow instead of root and reduce hsm energy/increase range! (58)
 
73%

No, WoL's core game play needs to be preserved (21)
 
27%

79 total votes

Your vote: Blizz should try to make more fundamental changes to WoL...

(Vote): Yes, make fungal slow instead of root and reduce hsm energy/increase range!
(Vote): No, WoL's core game play needs to be preserved


What is best? To crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Protoss.
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