EPTLings of Liberty: The Rise of the Patchzergs - Page 88
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guN-viCe
United States687 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Megamind
Australia4 Posts
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HadeCiao
Guatemala81 Posts
6 months ago: toss > all now: zerg > all its not the balance and its not blizzard wanting foreigners to win, its just the metagame and players with different skill. A perfect gamer would roflstomp everybody with whatever race. Why not play 1 base toss, why not attack zergs in min 13-14 as terran? The game is unexplored yet so look for solutions instead of whining | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On December 23 2012 08:03 Silentenigma wrote: Thanks blizzard for making the SC2 unwatchable for many people.There are a lot of zergs after zerg buffs and all of them play same.If I dont look at player names I would never guessed who was the player.There is same thing every game.Make 3 bases then make infestors then make a unbeatable hive army and win the game.I dont care the results it is unwatchable for many people. Having an ability to stop other playing microing is really retarded and uninspiring.And it doesnt require skill to place fungals.You cant miss them there is no missile and it is instant.And once you fungal one you can fungal same unit over and over again this is really wrong... I hope they learn from their mistakes and make a better game in HOTS. This is my problem with ZvZvZvZ. The player can be interchangeable because it's just more of the same. PvZ pidgeonholes Protoss players into a few set timings that do well. TvZ is in complete shambles. And as for the most common ZvZ mirror, it is the most boring MU to watch, and I will just tune out of the tournament. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On December 24 2012 08:03 Aunvilgod wrote: Luckily Browder will stomp this abomination into the ground and hopefully bury it forever. Snute did NOTHING before the queen patch. But I admit that he is good in ZvZ. Snute and Xlord make good examples of players that are decent, but certainly not of the requisite skill to defeat the caliber of players they did. | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On December 24 2012 20:23 HadeCiao wrote: 1 year ago: terran > all 6 months ago: toss > all now: zerg > all its not the balance and its not blizzard wanting foreigners to win, its just the metagame and players with different skill. A perfect gamer would roflstomp everybody with whatever race. Why not play 1 base toss, why not attack zergs in min 13-14 as terran? The game is unexplored yet so look for solutions instead of whining lol, protoss did win some tournaments but they in no way were dominate | ||
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
On December 24 2012 20:23 HadeCiao wrote: 1 year ago: terran > all 6 months ago: toss > all now: zerg > all its not the balance and its not blizzard wanting foreigners to win, its just the metagame and players with different skill. A perfect gamer would roflstomp everybody with whatever race. Why not play 1 base toss, why not attack zergs in min 13-14 as terran? The game is unexplored yet so look for solutions instead of whining It's not the balance? Alright then, what do you figure would happen if infestors returned to how they used to be (8 sec fungal with low damage), ghosts got un-nerfed, hellions got unnerfed and queens went back to range 3? Any one of those changes (which caused the rise of the "patchzergs") would change the matchup. Also why should Zerg get such a strong end game army? Why should other races have to go all-in (which is what you're saying) to have a chance at winning? Players of all races who defend well and macro well should have access to equally powerful armies, so that micro, macro and multitasking will win the day. You cant have one race with one ridiculously good end game army, one with a great end game and one with an "o.k." one. Skill should be the deciding factor in these games, not incredibly hard to counter units. Edit: as other people have mentioned, map pools have changed to greatly favor Zerg as well. | ||
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TomatoShark
United States288 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 24 2012 20:23 HadeCiao wrote: 1 year ago: terran > all 6 months ago: toss > all now: zerg > all its not the balance and its not blizzard wanting foreigners to win, its just the metagame and players with different skill. A perfect gamer would roflstomp everybody with whatever race. Why not play 1 base toss, why not attack zergs in min 13-14 as terran? The game is unexplored yet so look for solutions instead of whining Right, because the meta game shifted without any patches or different map designs. And builds like 5 CCs before barracks also haven't been tried out. So much to explore. | ||
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Maesy
United States1444 Posts
On December 24 2012 20:23 HadeCiao wrote: 1 year ago: terran > all 6 months ago: toss > all now: zerg > all its not the balance and its not blizzard wanting foreigners to win, its just the metagame and players with different skill. A perfect gamer would roflstomp everybody with whatever race. Why not play 1 base toss, why not attack zergs in min 13-14 as terran? The game is unexplored yet so look for solutions instead of whining Protoss were not 'on top' 6 months ago. It'd be great if you didn't make things up. | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
On December 25 2012 02:58 sCCrooked wrote: Whining about Zerg has just become "the thing to do" nowadays. However unless you're actually signed to a pro-team and doing well in tournaments, its 100% your own fault for stuff killing you because of a lack of something. Threads like this really don't help though and only bring out these terrible and whiney players in droves. Go ahead and debate this or whine more. Just proves my point whiners are horrible players. What a terrible mentality to promote. Except the Zerg deathball is pretty hard to stop and very easy to play from platinum upwards. When you watch Zergs in tournaments fighting the main fight, there is not a huge difference between the majority of Zergs. Compare this to when MVP or MC fought other Terrans or Protoss. They had great macro, micro and multitasking while multidropping their opponents. Zergs macro up, build their death ball and often win from then on. You'd be 100% correct if you were talking about Terran players a year ago, because only the best (note: the top Korean Terrans) did well. Everyone else couldn't come close because the skillcap was so high. This did not stop people whining about it, and it did not stop Terran being repeatedly patched. The requirements for Zerg to win are much lower, hence why so many foreign Zergs are beating Koreans in tournaments. | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On December 25 2012 03:06 Vore210 wrote: Except the Zerg deathball is pretty hard to stop and very easy to play from platinum upwards. When you watch Zergs in tournaments fighting the main fight, there is not a huge difference between the majority of Zergs. Compare this to when MVP or MC fought other Terrans or Protoss. They had great macro, micro and multitasking while multidropping their opponents. Zergs macro up, build their death ball and often win from then on. You'd be 100% correct if you were talking about Terran players a year ago, because only the best (note: the top Korean Terrans) did well. Everyone else couldn't come close because the skillcap was so high. This did not stop people whining about it, and it did not stop Terran being repeatedly patched. The requirements for Zerg to win are much lower, hence why so many foreign Zergs are beating Koreans in tournaments. No, this is a very incorrect statement. Do you honestly believe Z is just easy-street from plat onwards? Why are any Zs still in plat or diamond then? Why are not 100% of all zerg players Masters or higher? See just based on the obvious answers to these rhetorical questions, I can tell just about everyone who takes part in these threads and agrees with them is a lower level player with huge fundamental issues. Nobody is facing the problems pros might face at that top level near the skill ceiling. You're talking to a mid-masters Random player so I know all 3 races pretty well inside and out and the amount of lower level or low masters or even other mid-masters T and P I see whining about Z is laughable. Its just about everyone and none of them actually play Z at a decently high level like I do so its hilarious. I swear right now every multiple-race players who has them all (no exception to any 1 of the 3) up to 1000 points or higher masters is probably having a ball with all this Zerg whine as I am. Its flattering themselves that somehow they're the harder race or the tougher challenge and it somehow makes them greater. Its all ego and its pathetic honestly that people have their noses so far up their asses they can't smell the solutions sitting right in front of them. I play T and P 2/3 of the time in games so twice as much as I play Z and I don't have trouble vs Z with either one of them. Pre-hive or post-hive. | ||
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mudkipkilla
31 Posts
On December 25 2012 03:15 sCCrooked wrote: No, this is a very incorrect statement. Do you honestly believe Z is just easy-street from plat onwards? Why are any Zs still in plat or diamond then? Why are not 100% of all zerg players Masters or higher? See just based on the obvious answers to these rhetorical questions, I can tell just about everyone who takes part in these threads and agrees with them is a lower level player with huge fundamental issues. Nobody is facing the problems pros might face at that top level near the skill ceiling. You're talking to a mid-masters Random player so I know all 3 races pretty well inside and out and the amount of lower level or low masters or even other mid-masters T and P I see whining about Z is laughable. Its just about everyone and none of them actually play Z at a decently high level like I do so its hilarious. I swear right now every multiple-race players who has them all (no exception to any 1 of the 3) up to 1000 points or higher masters is probably having a ball with all this Zerg whine as I am. Its flattering themselves that somehow they're the harder race or the tougher challenge and it somehow makes them greater. Its all ego and its pathetic honestly that people have their noses so far up their asses they can't smell the solutions sitting right in front of them. I play T and P 2/3 of the time in games so twice as much as I play Z and I don't have trouble vs Z with either one of them. Pre-hive or post-hive. Hey, you can hide behind a shield of "I play random, I can say whatever I want', but unless you bring up an actual valid argument that is based on objective facts and examples, what you are saying doesn't mean anything. Personal experiences as mid master don't really count as good examples. | ||
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geoIOPS
40 Posts
Its flattering themselves that somehow they're the harder race or the tougher challenge and it somehow makes them greater. Its all ego and its pathetic honestly that people have their noses so far up their asses they can't smell the solutions sitting right in front of them. I play T and P 2/3 of the time in games so twice as much as I play Z and I don't have trouble vs Z with either one of them. Pre-hive or post-hive. No one gives a crap about what your experience with the PvZ or TvZ matchup is. None. 0%. What we care we care about are professional PvZ or TvZ matches. Are you denying that there is a problem with fungal in these situations? | ||
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
On December 25 2012 03:15 sCCrooked wrote: No, this is a very incorrect statement. Do you honestly believe Z is just easy-street from plat onwards? Why are any Zs still in plat or diamond then? Why are not 100% of all zerg players Masters or higher? See just based on the obvious answers to these rhetorical questions, I can tell just about everyone who takes part in these threads and agrees with them is a lower level player with huge fundamental issues. Nobody is facing the problems pros might face at that top level near the skill ceiling. You're talking to a mid-masters Random player so I know all 3 races pretty well inside and out and the amount of lower level or low masters or even other mid-masters T and P I see whining about Z is laughable. Its just about everyone and none of them actually play Z at a decently high level like I do so its hilarious. I swear right now every multiple-race players who has them all (no exception to any 1 of the 3) up to 1000 points or higher masters is probably having a ball with all this Zerg whine as I am. Its flattering themselves that somehow they're the harder race or the tougher challenge and it somehow makes them greater. Its all ego and its pathetic honestly that people have their noses so far up their asses they can't smell the solutions sitting right in front of them. I play T and P 2/3 of the time in games so twice as much as I play Z and I don't have trouble vs Z with either one of them. Pre-hive or post-hive. I specifically mentioned the Zerg death ball being very hard to stop and easy to play from plat onwards. No doubt lower level players still have problems surviving various timing attacks and pushes(all of which have been figured out with low-micro solutions and can be learned) and lets not forget ZvZ. All races can suffer those kind of game ending attacks, but Zerg still has the best (and easy to control) end game army. I haven't played Terran for ages, when I was playing last it was as a high masters Protoss. So no, I'm not trying to talk myself up by saying I have the greater struggle. I didn't find Zerg that tough but that's because Protoss actually has options against their death ball. From watching tournaments and seeing how other people struggle I can see that the Zerg army is very low on micro, very high on reward. When I see far better Terrans have to work so much harder than their Zerg counterparts and still lose... yeah I can see a balance issue there. And you just saying you have no problems against them pre-hive or post hive means nothing to me. You're giving nothing to back that up. I'm still seeing Terran players struggling against zerg (and Protoss too, to a lesser extent) at a level far higher than the both of us. | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On December 25 2012 03:21 geoIOPS wrote: No one gives a crap about what your experience with the PvZ or TvZ matchup is. None. 0%. What we care we care about are professional PvZ or TvZ matches. Are you denying that there is a problem with fungal in these situations? Are you denying that changing fungal would completely destroy how ZvP ZvT and ZvZ all work without major re-works into the mechanics upgrades stats and micro-ability of lings/roaches/hydras/mutas/queens? A lot of pros are quite capable vs Z except vs very innovative players like ST_Life, Leenock, HyuN, etc. A lot of players are whining about the ladder people right now so of course I'm going to quote my own experiences for that. Are you really not capable of reading these other hundreds of whiney posts that don't have to do with the pro scene? When I see far better Terrans have to work so much harder than their Zerg counterparts and still lose... yeah I can see a balance issue there. This terribly egotistical mentality is what's going to destroy e-sports. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10131 Posts
A lot of pros are quite capable vs Z except vs very innovative players like ST_Life, Leenock, HyuN, etc. What ? There are only 2 pro's that can really beat them. Parting and Gumiho. One with a onetrickpony all in shitty to watch, and the another, Gumiho, with MMMG which you must be an insanely good player to do it well and it's kind of go big or go home, because one second you don't babysit your army and you are toast. | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On December 25 2012 03:33 Godwrath wrote: What ? There are only 2 pro's that can really beat them. Parting and Gumiho. One with a onetrickpony all in shitty to watch, and the another, Gumiho, with MMMG which you must be an insanely good player to do it well and it's kind of go big or go home, because one second you don't babysit your army and you are toast. Parting has some of the strongest PvZ in existence right now. Its not because of his immortal all-in either. His SG expand and fast mothership builds are incredibly good as well. To sit there and call Parting a onetrickponey all-in player is just showing that you have next to no knowledge of the biggest names much less the intricacy of the scene down through the semi-pro levels or the level of players that actually make it that high. Marvellous. Do you have any actual points or is calling people "egoistical" and stuff everything you've got? Do you have any actual points or do you just blindly follow jokes like this article without thinking? I know you're not smart enough to tell that's a rhetorical question so I'll just tell you not to answer that since its already known to any intelligent readers. The only way to stop troll gangs like you and the others agreeing with you in this thread is to simply stop posting because it proves forevermore that if you should ever post again in response, its because I got in a word you couldn't stand to see as "last" because a simple-minded person still believes in such childish things. By my not posting anymore, it pretty much ends it and the trolls lose. Respond to this in any manner and you forever prove me right. At least Godwrath made a pretty good point in that Parting heavily relies on his immortal allin, using it multiple times during series and there hasnt been a Korean Terran to show consistent results against Zerg recently. Stop trying to tell other people they don't understand the game when you arent even a high level player. I'm mid-masters but all my teachers are national champions, semi pros and signed actual pros. Stop trying to act like you lower levels understand what they understand. I know far too many of them to not be exposed to pro mindset all the time whereas next to nobody on here can claim to even knowing any of these people offline. Do not assume that you or any who think like you are some driving force behind balancing the game when any smart person knows this is all just balance whine. | ||
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