EPTAnd this is pure gold, the best read i've had on here since some months ^^
Lings of Liberty: The Rise of the Patchzergs - Page 64
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
And this is pure gold, the best read i've had on here since some months ^^ | ||
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UnholyRai
720 Posts
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On December 06 2012 13:56 azoriusherald wrote: Interesting and well-constructed article. However, it makes me laugh how people forget their history. The fact that words like "patchzerg" and "winfestor" exist does not indicate that zergs have been somehow especially fortunate in the balance trends of the game. Remember the excellent song "Terran's OP?" Or Sen's hilarious "SENTRY IMBA!!" video? I wouldn't go as far as to say it's zergs' turn to be imbalanced, but come on people, you used to scold us poor zergs for making similarly unnuanced and cheap balance arguments. No one gets turns becoming imbalanced. The game needs to be in a constant strive to become better. At this point it's becoming worse, and it's peak days were pre queen change, where the game was actually semi-balanced. Blizzard screwed the game up. That there have been imbalances when the game was young is understandable. There shouldn't be more now than before. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
To really be able to use the graphs, Ver truely need to include a mirror statistic as a reference for how the matchups are biased. Also, I lack the sample size and some rudimentary discussion of the uncertainty for those pretty interesting graphs to bear any meaning. All in all, it is a well-written opinion-piece with a clear target in the infestor (Might as well have been brood lords since they are trademark patch-zerg too.). On a few very important points you are scoring very high in your analysis seen from my side: 1. The composition requirement as soon as brood lords/infestors are out, is very seldom broad for zerg, making it repetitive to watch and to play! 2. The lack of some kind of a "spread formation"-movement in the game is hurting terran bio (referring to the sloppy comments) and protoss a lot. It is not an unheard of feature and it would make the game so much more tactical, though it would take an improvement of non-infestor zerg units to balance. Might also signal a need for reducing the AoE-effects in the game overall. 3. The game is loosing interest from the players, but if it is because of HOTS being on the way or it is the lack of depth remains to be seen. Look at the sale of HOTS in the first month and compare it to WOL in the first month to get a measure. Do the same thing for Civilisation 4, Diablo 2, Starcraft 1, Warcraft 3 and other franchises to see how the relative sale of expansion is for Starcraft 2. We are talking big numbers and percentage nor numbers will cut it alone so you have to make a measure if these two measures do not give a clear picture. Only then we will know how much is a result of HOTS being a hot topic and what is caused by worn out players. | ||
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:32 Djagulingu wrote: Terran was complained imbalanced for centuries and there were no articles about it. Then all of a sudden Zergs come out of nowhere and hello lings of liberty. The big myth. Terran wasn't imbalanced really. Sure Gomtvt existed but terran is the most played race so an overreprsentation is natural. If terran isn't overrepresented then you know the game is imbalanced. Also why Gomtv was going on, every single foreign terran player was losing left and right. So while the game was balanced at the top level in Korea, it was much more difficult for foreign terran players to win than for protoss and zerg players. Since the zerg patch, even Korean terran players are losing as well, and it has just got even worse since the patch. CLose to 1/3 of zerg master league players doesn't deserve to be in masters (assuming the average zerg player is of equal skill to the average terran player), and this is killing high diamond terrans who are superior to the low master zerg players. But due to imbalances they are having a much more difficult time. Since the game is imbalanced at every level currently (even after the infestor nerf, they it's slightly better), it's only rational that terran players are whining. | ||
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:38 Hider wrote: The big myth. Terran wasn't imbalanced really. Sure Gomtvt existed but terran is the most played race so an overreprsentation is natural. If terran isn't overrepresented then you know the game is imbalanced. Also why Gomtv was going on, every single foreign terran player was losing left and right. So while the game was balanced at the top level in Korea, it was much more difficult for foreign terran players to win than for protoss and zerg players. Since the zerg patch, even Korean terran players are losing as well, and it has just got even worse since the patch. CLose to 1/3 of zerg master league players doesn't deserve to be in masters (assuming the average zerg player is of equal skill to the average terran player), and this is killing high diamond terrans who are superior to the low master zerg players. But due to imbalances they are having a much more difficult time. Since the game is imbalanced at every level currently (even after the infestor nerf, they it's slightly better), it's only rational that terran players are whining. gom was tvtvtvt because 1/1/1 was 90% winrate | ||
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Big-t
Austria1351 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:38 Hider wrote: The big myth. Terran wasn't imbalanced really. Sure Gomtvt existed but terran is the most played race so an overreprsentation is natural. If terran isn't overrepresented then you know the game is imbalanced. Well it's not a myth, but it wasn't as long as people remember it. And while there wasn't any article, there was still a ton of threads about the 111 or protoss sad zealots, and even TL writers were as vocal about it than they are now about zerg. I remember it well because it was a period where I was always rooting against terrans (like now I always root against zerg). The problem is that blizzard nerfed and nerfed terran while buffing zerg, but at the same time a lot of maps fixed the problems that patches were supposed to fix too. The paroxysm of that was the GSL season that included metropolis and atlantis spaceship just before (or after, I have not checked) the queen patch was released, which was way overkill. After the queen patch, even terran maps like Antiga became balanced, balanced maps like daybreak became extremely zerg favored (Antiga is about 40% terran while Daybreak is about 30% terran in GSL for the latest patch, while those were 60 and 50% respectively before). (no way to select a time period so you have to do the search patch by patch). Nowadays a terran map is a map where terran wins 45% of the time. A zerg map is a map where zerg wins 70% or more. It always comes back to this dumb queen patch, when it was released even zergs wondered why did they buff the queen. The overlord speed change was universally accepted as a good change (allowed to scout either it was hellion contain of double fact hellions, also allowed to park overlords in crucial map positions without 2 marines killing them), while the queen range was universally perceived as not needed. The real period of terran OP was when gold bases, shattered temple and xel naga caverns were still in the pool, after that the game was balanced except the 111 in TvP which was fixed with its own patch. TvZ was balanced for a good time already during the 111 era. + Show Spoiler + TLPD Daybreak for the whole 2012 http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=479&part=games&matchup=all&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=2&action=Update For the last 6 months http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=479&part=games&matchup=all&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=6&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=2&action=Update For the last 3 months http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=479&part=games&matchup=all&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=9&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=2&action=Update Basically the map is more and more zerg favored with time. Same for antiga, in fact same for 100% of the maps I'd guess. Remember at one point Daybreak was "the best and more balanced sc2 map ever", and it was. | ||
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:38 Hider wrote: The big myth. Terran wasn't imbalanced really. Sure Gomtvt existed but terran is the most played race so an overreprsentation is natural. If terran isn't overrepresented then you know the game is imbalanced. Also why Gomtv was going on, every single foreign terran player was losing left and right. So while the game was balanced at the top level in Korea, it was much more difficult for foreign terran players to win than for protoss and zerg players. Since the zerg patch, even Korean terran players are losing as well, and it has just got even worse since the patch. CLose to 1/3 of zerg master league players doesn't deserve to be in masters (assuming the average zerg player is of equal skill to the average terran player), and this is killing high diamond terrans who are superior to the low master zerg players. But due to imbalances they are having a much more difficult time. Since the game is imbalanced at every level currently (even after the infestor nerf, they it's slightly better), it's only rational that terran players are whining. You do realise at some point we had 20+ Terran in code S?. Its twice as many as as the zerg race has ever got. | ||
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Psyqo
United States401 Posts
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biteMe
Germany241 Posts
and if you intend to really go deep into analysis with the infestor/terran issue you need to talk about maps more than about your weird theories of what blizzard does or does not whatnot whupdidup. Just mix in steppes of war in your map pool and no one will complain about infestors i promise. But it does not have to be sow.. its also Antiga Shipyard and Ohana where you dont see many infestors. And what you misunderstand is that the infestors dont lower the skill requirements for zerg, it raises the bar for terran and protoss instead. Terrans now need to mix in ghosts and battlecruisers which they still dont use efficiently, much like zerg had to learn how to make use of infestors for a very long time as you mentioned. I think its safe to say that more changes to the meta game will be introduced by new maps than by some infestor fix. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
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Lolimaiko
United States29 Posts
Likewise, if this is a sarcastic post using infestors as bait, then why would the OP spend a massive amount of time making charts, screenshots, and walls of text to say absolutely nothing? I usually avoid these threads/posts and go on, but seeing how much time OP dedicated to this, I figured it would be impolite to NOT post my thoughts about it. | ||
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CutieBK
Sweden227 Posts
I don't feel I have much right to complain about the current state of the game, as I've stopped playing, but I've also stopped watching due to a general feel of every game devolving into either huge clusterfucks of ball vs ball or boring timings. Thanks for taking the time to write this, it must have taken ages. Especially liking the graphs and the general vibe of witty outrage  | ||
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Yoduh
United States216 Posts
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ivirj
Mexico79 Posts
TvZ, the flagship matchup of Starcraft 2, was looking like a worthy successor to Broodwar. Stopped reading there, called the cops, called the fbi, etc. | ||
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skorched
United States81 Posts
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
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