EPTThat said, I recognize that tournaments aren't the best place to be trying out new strategies and compositions. That doesn't mean that ladder isn't a valid place to experiment. There are options and builds none of us have ever thought of, and instead of actually trying to expand the game, we're complaining that Blizzard is making our tiny little world more viable.
Lings of Liberty: The Rise of the Patchzergs - Page 32
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Vindicate
United States169 Posts
That said, I recognize that tournaments aren't the best place to be trying out new strategies and compositions. That doesn't mean that ladder isn't a valid place to experiment. There are options and builds none of us have ever thought of, and instead of actually trying to expand the game, we're complaining that Blizzard is making our tiny little world more viable. | ||
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crayhasissues
United States682 Posts
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Trasko
Sweden983 Posts
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KingAce
United States471 Posts
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babylon
8765 Posts
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Masq
Canada1792 Posts
Was a cute read though! | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
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ScandiNAVIan
Korea (South)60 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:25 babylon wrote: Anyone simply scanning through the article's pictures would think that Leenock is a patchzerg (despite the fact that OP, of course, states that Life/Leenock/DRG are clearly not patchzergs). Still, poor Leenock. I doubt Leenock would care about such ignorant people's opinions. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:20 Vindicate wrote: Without addressing infestors directly (taboo I know, given that the only zerg units in existence are the broodlord and infestor), I would suggest that part of the problem is the inability of all races, zerg included, to even try to find some solution to the metagame. Zerg had the same problem ages back when roach/hydra/corrupter was the "counter" to the Protoss deathball. All Zerg did was build roach/hydra/corrupter and then bitch and whine when they lost. It was chalked up to Protoss "imbalance," and while there might have been some truth to that, a huge part of the problem was, wait for it, everyone thought infestors sucked. I can count on one hand the number of times I saw any alternate strategy employed by ANY race to counter infestors. I'm not saying balance isn't an issue as the infestor, in my opinion, is overpowered to some degree (I don't know how much). I am saying that we need to get out of this stale mindset that there is only one way to play/strategize/think and that if it doesn't work, whatever is stopping it is overpowered. That said, I recognize that tournaments aren't the best place to be trying out new strategies and compositions. That doesn't mean that ladder isn't a valid place to experiment. There are options and builds none of us have ever thought of, and instead of actually trying to expand the game, we're complaining that Blizzard is making our tiny little world more viable. You are referring to a time many patches ago. Fungal was much less effective in that it did half the DPS (lasted twice as long), I think infested terrans did less damage (not sure on this one), queens/overlords were buffed, (MAPS GOT BIGGER), and Terran received nerf after nerf. The fungal change is what really changed the infestor from being good to overpowered, but the combination of other zerg buffs, terran nerfs, and map pool changes are what made the game the mess it is today. I don't know for sure of course, but it sure seems that there is no real innovation to be had at this point unless things change in the form of maps or race stats. Ghosts are absolutely absolutely not good against infestors in the current patch unless they cloak and snipe a ton of infestors when the zerg makes a very big mistake. EMP is hopeless against infestors due to its small radius and only draining 100 energy. Now, note that before EMP was changed to only drain 100 energy and have a much smaller radius, and ghosts cost 150/150 instead of 200/100 it was closer to a potential counter, but even then trying to get snipes/EMPs off before getting fungaled was very difficult. | ||
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ScandiNAVIan
Korea (South)60 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:25 KingAce wrote: So when are we going to address the real issue here? Unit clumping. You cannot hope to balance this game when on it's most fundamental level, it's flawed. Just because noobs arent able to spread out their units doesnt mean its not possible. | ||
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Kergy
Peru2011 Posts
I don't play the game but used to watch a lot of it, things got extremely boring once infestor/broodlord became popular. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
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ChrysaliS_
United States261 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:20 Vindicate wrote: Without addressing infestors directly (taboo I know, given that the only zerg units in existence are the broodlord and infestor), I would suggest that part of the problem is the inability of all races, zerg included, to even try to find some solution to the metagame. Zerg had the same problem ages back when roach/hydra/corrupter was the "counter" to the Protoss deathball. All Zerg did was build roach/hydra/corrupter and then bitch and whine when they lost. It was chalked up to Protoss "imbalance," and while there might have been some truth to that, a huge part of the problem was, wait for it, everyone thought infestors sucked. I can count on one hand the number of times I saw any alternate strategy employed by ANY race to counter infestors. I'm not saying balance isn't an issue as the infestor, in my opinion, is overpowered to some degree (I don't know how much). I am saying that we need to get out of this stale mindset that there is only one way to play/strategize/think and that if it doesn't work, whatever is stopping it is overpowered. That said, I recognize that tournaments aren't the best place to be trying out new strategies and compositions. That doesn't mean that ladder isn't a valid place to experiment. There are options and builds none of us have ever thought of, and instead of actually trying to expand the game, we're complaining that Blizzard is making our tiny little world more viable. Uhh... Infestors did suck back in the early days. It wasn't until Fungal Growth received an enormous buff (100% increase in DPS, 160% increase in DPS to armored) that they became heavily utilized (the Destiny days). That version of the infestor was clearly extremely overpowered (Destiny consistently beat Code S protoss and terran), so they nerfed fungal down to 87.5% increase in DPS/150% increase in DPS to armored over the original spell. That's still a huge buff. | ||
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Picklebread
808 Posts
Well done Ver. | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:29 ScandiNAVIan wrote: Just because noobs arent able to spread out their units doesnt mean its not possible. byun is not a noob | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
Funny thing is that foreign terrans still sucked ass during the GomTvT era. I don't play the game but used to watch a lot of it, things got extremely boring once infestor/broodlord became popular. Terran was still mechanically the hardest race to play even during GomTvT. Unless massive, sweeping game design changes are made Terran will always be significantly more demanding on mechanics and fine motor skills. | ||
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ScandiNAVIan
Korea (South)60 Posts
Byun is certainly capable, but even good players make mistakes/dont pay attention. Edit: if he were arguing something along the lines of "its too unforgiving we need to have units autosplit etc" that'd be another discussion. | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:20 Vindicate wrote: Without addressing infestors directly (taboo I know, given that the only zerg units in existence are the broodlord and infestor), I would suggest that part of the problem is the inability of all races, zerg included, to even try to find some solution to the metagame. Zerg had the same problem ages back when roach/hydra/corrupter was the "counter" to the Protoss deathball. All Zerg did was build roach/hydra/corrupter and then bitch and whine when they lost. It was chalked up to Protoss "imbalance," and while there might have been some truth to that, a huge part of the problem was, wait for it, everyone thought infestors sucked. I can count on one hand the number of times I saw any alternate strategy employed by ANY race to counter infestors. I'm not saying balance isn't an issue as the infestor, in my opinion, is overpowered to some degree (I don't know how much). I am saying that we need to get out of this stale mindset that there is only one way to play/strategize/think and that if it doesn't work, whatever is stopping it is overpowered. That said, I recognize that tournaments aren't the best place to be trying out new strategies and compositions. That doesn't mean that ladder isn't a valid place to experiment. There are options and builds none of us have ever thought of, and instead of actually trying to expand the game, we're complaining that Blizzard is making our tiny little world more viable. What makes you think that pros aren't trying alternatives to the current metagame in practice? The average Korean progamer probably plays 100+ practice games for every tournament game we actually see, and then they use whatever worked best in practice in tournaments. I didn't get it back when people accused Zergs of stubbornly suiciding roach/hydra/corruptor, and I don't get it now. Stagnation in the metagame or whatever you call it isn't a result of pros not trying to innovate, I can almost guarantee that many (if not most) of them are constantly testing new strategies to try to find ways to beat whatever is standard at the time. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:29 ScandiNAVIan wrote: Just because noobs arent able to spread out their units doesnt mean its not possible. Yeah, progamers are such noobs. | ||
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