• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:58
CEST 05:58
KST 12:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection2Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th123Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League5Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double1
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Soma's ASL Finals Review
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2051 users

Lings of Liberty: The Rise of the Patchzergs - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 103 Next
mrRoflpwn
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2618 Posts
December 03 2012 21:38 GMT
#321
I have lost so much respect for you ver. I agree with a lot of your arguments- however to think that Hyun did not simply outplay Bogus (innovation) or Sniper DOMINATED Ryung with Ling/bling/Muta in that last game on daybreak is stupid. Sniper completely outplayed Ryung by being super aggressive and killing off Ryung's third. Sniper made less than 5 infestors that game... You are being extremely biased in certain parts of your essay and it detracts from your argument.
Long live the Boss Toss!
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10142 Posts
December 03 2012 21:38 GMT
#322
On December 04 2012 06:37 ArcticRaven wrote:
From reading comments - am I the only zerg player that fucking hates infestors ? The sheer mind-numbing boringness of fungle into amove has singlehandedly made me switch to Terran then get a dota key. I just can't stand playing my race anymore, because infestors are the only choice that doesn't auto die to mech and FFE allins and it's the worst choice you could make when it comes to actually enjoying the game.

And I'm not even talking about watching tournaments.


I play 3 races, so i don't know if i count as a "zerg player" but you are not alone
Glon
Profile Joined December 2010
United States569 Posts
December 03 2012 21:38 GMT
#323
I do completely disagree that blizzard patched the game specifically so white people can win -- if anything, it hurts them by creating a massive number of ZvZs where Koreans STILL usually dominate.

However, I agree with you. Here are some ideas for changing infestor (I would even go so far as to nerf ALL of them):
-Burrow MUCH more visible. Even if you don't have detection, you can see it if you're looking
-Infestors have significantly slower movement speed.
-Fungal does not slow Templar/Ghosts
-Reduce fungal range by 1

I believe that, in doing all of the ^, you will solve the problem of late game retardedness with infestors in major battles. However, this still opens up the problem of players turteling excessively on 3-4 bases. Honestly, I would not mind the return of old infestors. The 8 second root was actually GREAT during the mid game, and huge neural radius allowed for a greater mid game utility in taking over tanks/collosuses. I wouldn't mind blizzard opening up a map with the old infestor and just seeing what happens with the current meta game.
@QuanticGlon https://twitter.com/QuanticGlon
Rampoon
Profile Joined May 2009
United Kingdom166 Posts
December 03 2012 21:39 GMT
#324
The main thing i have taken from this amazing write up is how much i miss the old TvZ....am now quite sad. Used to love those games of sc2, now i'm slowly being suffocated by the new "playstyle".

Also have any foreigner zergs ever commented on the topic (massive anti-zerg/infestor & ease of winning griping)? Do they think it's hard? or just enjoying their freedom so to spk? etc etc
Ambre
Profile Joined July 2011
France416 Posts
December 03 2012 21:39 GMT
#325
On December 04 2012 06:27 m0ck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 06:21 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
Man this thread really could need fewer comments in which people declare their superiority by telling everyone how very well they understand the OP.

You speak truth


This.

I m taking a look at the comments just to have some fun / feel bad for the human race.

-_-'
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self." - Aldous Huxley
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
December 03 2012 21:39 GMT
#326
On December 04 2012 06:38 Ficetool wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 06:30 link0 wrote:
Fantastic and accurate write up. You put into words what every Masters+ player is already thinking.


I am Master and think it is utter rubbish, written by someone who has no clue and is biased :-)
Not to mention all the stupid things he writes that makes it either a troll post or just ridicolous


You should look at Ver's post history if you think he has no clue, because that's simply hilarious. He's a blue poster in the strategy forum and ran this thread.
rembrant
Profile Joined July 2012
62 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 21:43:24
December 03 2012 21:39 GMT
#327
This thread is sooo rediculous. I'm just as tired of infestors as the next guy but op should have never written this. The game is in flux, there is no blizzard conspiracy, and all of those "can u tell if this z is a white guy?" Pics were the most ridiculous of all. Sorry op I'm not impressed, nice graphs and u made a few good points but ultimately you do the whole issue a disservice.
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
December 03 2012 21:40 GMT
#328
On December 04 2012 04:09 HyDrA_solic wrote:
How do you explain Korean Terran dominance in the early times of SC2?
I mean, that latter sentence: To summarize, Blizzard has deliberately designed SC2 over the past eighteen months so that foreigners can beat Koreans regularly, despite their general inferiority in skill.
It's kinda harsh for game developers and players. Snute just beat Life 2-1.


But it shouldn't be that way. The game should be designed so that the player who has the better strategy, the better skills and mechanics should come out on top. If koreans win everything, then fine, that's good because white people then need to practice and train more. But white people beating koreans because of balance design rather than mechanics and skills is bad for the game itself.
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
December 03 2012 21:40 GMT
#329
Well, I admire the work behind this.
But I think both the fans, the players, and Blizzard know about it. :p
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
AnomalySC2
Profile Joined August 2012
United States2073 Posts
December 03 2012 21:41 GMT
#330
On December 04 2012 06:22 WightyCity wrote:
I agree thats its about viewers. thats not a bad thing at all imho.



It means this game is a fake esport. The better players do not always win, it's rigged for, or against specific players. There was a newer interview with Dustin Browder where he specifically said he acts as moral support for his team. That's because they have to regularly artificially boost certain players to stardom and rip some down that don't deserve it.

They also snipe people on the ladder that are known for criticizing Starcraft 2 or David Kim on bnet forums (and probably TL). If you don't believe me that's fine, just write it off as some loony conspiracy rant. Just know that it absolutely happens and it needs to stop.
OrangeNinja21
Profile Joined November 2010
United States84 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 21:42:21
December 03 2012 21:41 GMT
#331
I think it's apparent people here are not seeing that Ver's trying to be funny. I am truly sorry for those that don't see that this is a joke lol. ALL HAIL FUNGAL GROWTH
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Blacktion
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom1148 Posts
December 03 2012 21:41 GMT
#332
Pretty entertaining and well written.
Some of those screenshots and captions make me want to vomit though.
Where's Boxer, there's victory! - figq
Severus_
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
759 Posts
December 03 2012 21:41 GMT
#333
Actually KeSPA players will break BL/infestors without patches.
Sacrilege
Profile Joined December 2011
United States199 Posts
December 03 2012 21:41 GMT
#334
I honestly hope that you don't expect anyone to take you seriously with the way you finished this article. It's a joke.
Imperative Gaming Owner | Grandmaster Zerg | https://twitter.com/SacrilegeSC2 | https://www.twitch.tv/shadowbites
Burns
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2300 Posts
December 03 2012 21:42 GMT
#335
I loved watching TvZ multa play

and now i absolutely hate watching roach and infestor play, fuck its so boring,
the game has become a game where one player wins after one engagement. Little harassment, little aggression, just one A move and the game is over.
What do you mean you heard me during the night, these are quiet pants!
Ambre
Profile Joined July 2011
France416 Posts
December 03 2012 21:45 GMT
#336
On December 04 2012 06:41 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 06:22 WightyCity wrote:
I agree thats its about viewers. thats not a bad thing at all imho.



It means this game is a fake esport. The better players do not always win, it's rigged for, or against specific players. There was a newer interview with Dustin Browder where he specifically said he acts as moral support for his team. That's because they have to regularly artificially boost certain players to stardom and rip some down that don't deserve it.

They also snipe people on the ladder that are known for criticizing Starcraft 2 or David Kim on bnet forums (and probably TL). If you don't believe me that's fine, just write it off as some loony conspiracy rant. Just know that it absolutely happens and it needs to stop.


Lol xD
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self." - Aldous Huxley
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2013 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 21:46:17
December 03 2012 21:45 GMT
#337
Well written,very hard to figure out if joke or serious, and with that i think you achieved your goal, well done.

For one, i hope the gameplay gets better because i dont even remember when i seen a live game last time
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 22:10:20
December 03 2012 21:46 GMT
#338
After reading, it's just a huge wall of frustration vented out. Good effort I guess though, it's just that it feels like a hit piece. In the end though SC 2 will be illegitimate as an esport for more than just some shitty patch. It's because they will never fix fundamental flaws with their game. And that's really sad, when I saw Jaedong's interview about how he can't be super aggressive with high risk micro (BW mutas) that it made him struggle adjusting to SC 2. That felt really really wrong, because simply being aggressive and microing well should be in almost every competitive RTS ever, they're such basic ideas that they should be almost universal really. The fact momentum/acceleration works how it does in SC 2 destroys that, but good ol blizzard will NEVER fix it. And you need to write them a freaking master's thesis in order to convince them that something needs to be done. They just don't get it, and no browder interview that makes him look LESS CLUELESS will change my mind. Actually waking up one day with a new patch or expansion where they've fixed these problems will.

edit: if you were joking, cool. I just always assume people putting that much effort in usually are serious :O
HwangjaeTerran
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Finland5967 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 21:52:44
December 03 2012 21:47 GMT
#339
It's funny because no one actually has a clue what the fuck blizzard is doing.

e. You could have revealed the caster conspiracy too. Sometimes I have to mute streams just so I wouldn't start hurting little animals. Every single fucking fungal is "great" with the added "whoa". When the day comes a Terran manages to land a nuke on an army I wonder if their heads would just explode.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/*tlusernamehere*/
Holophonist
Profile Joined December 2010
United States297 Posts
December 03 2012 21:48 GMT
#340
On December 04 2012 06:28 Mavvie wrote:
I actually thought he was serious for most of this, hahaha.

On a serious note, the patch that came to HotS today seems very interesting. "Heavily nerf infestors" while making other play (mutalisks, ultralisks, and indirectly banelings/zerglings) more viable lategame. Can't wait to win and improve an equal amount as I am currently, but without everybody demeaning the value of my rank because of the race I play.


SO well put. I improve the most when I'm playing the most. end of story. Anybody who thinks that zvt being at 60-40 at the highest level of play is the reason they can't get into masters/diamond/whatever is fooling themselves.
Just like my Grandpa used to say, "Never forget that the... thing.. and there was like.... a guy with this. Hmmm......"
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 103 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Enki Epic Series #9
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft695
ProTech311
RuFF_SC2 178
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5168
Rain 3647
Noble 41
Bale 26
Nal_rA 19
Icarus 4
Dota 2
LuMiX0
League of Legends
JimRising 706
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1789
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox700
Mew2King76
Other Games
C9.Mang0531
PiGStarcraft421
Maynarde175
minikerr8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick912
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH213
• Hupsaiya 87
• practicex 23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1098
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6h 2m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
7h 2m
Maestros of the Game
11h 32m
The PondCast
1d 6h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 7h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 11h
Maestros of the Game
1d 11h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
GSL
5 days
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.