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Northern Ireland26192 Posts
On November 30 2012 15:40 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 15:34 Forikorder wrote:On November 30 2012 15:31 Dodgin wrote:On November 30 2012 15:30 Forikorder wrote:On November 30 2012 11:08 Shiori wrote:
These are the most embarrassingly worthless changes possible. I'm seriously contemplating quitting this game if this is how Blizzard approaches balance. are these changes live? no? there doing exactly what they should be doing making small changes, seeing what happens then adjusting the change at 80 health one storm kills the eggs (dunno about duration or if eggs regen and saves it) but if/when tehy see that this doesnt affect ITs then next stop might be less damage per shot or slower attack or less health on the actual IT I think the reason a lot of people are upset is because they want changes to go live as soon as possible and testing 10 different changes one week each is going to make the process take quite a while when they have already been waiting since May. would you rather them rush out a change that makes the game worse then take even longer jsut to get back to where they were? the game is like 5% inbalanced its that last 5% thats a killer if there not careful then they could make too big a change and make the game even more imbalanced I think they should have started considering changes months ago if they had to test it this much to make up their mind. but no, since we're stuck with this situation I'm fine with them testing different things and taking a bit of time. I just think all the pro gamers are not happy with it, by the time anything is live all the major end of the year tournaments are going to be over.
They have to tweak it like this, by isolating one spell at a time and looking at it in isolation. The infestor fills so many roles, so well that, when you really have to change it, it's good practice to isolate each spell. You look at what's a 'good' way to have the spell work.
If you did like, fungal nerf, IT nerf, and made an infestor 3 supply, it would be such a huge, huge nerf that, you can figure out if it went 'too far' in neutering a unit. However, you can't really figure out WHEN the point of ruining the unit was reached, or why it was, merely that you have, or haven't reached that point.
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On November 30 2012 15:45 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 15:40 Dodgin wrote:On November 30 2012 15:34 Forikorder wrote:On November 30 2012 15:31 Dodgin wrote:On November 30 2012 15:30 Forikorder wrote:On November 30 2012 11:08 Shiori wrote:
These are the most embarrassingly worthless changes possible. I'm seriously contemplating quitting this game if this is how Blizzard approaches balance. are these changes live? no? there doing exactly what they should be doing making small changes, seeing what happens then adjusting the change at 80 health one storm kills the eggs (dunno about duration or if eggs regen and saves it) but if/when tehy see that this doesnt affect ITs then next stop might be less damage per shot or slower attack or less health on the actual IT I think the reason a lot of people are upset is because they want changes to go live as soon as possible and testing 10 different changes one week each is going to make the process take quite a while when they have already been waiting since May. would you rather them rush out a change that makes the game worse then take even longer jsut to get back to where they were? the game is like 5% inbalanced its that last 5% thats a killer if there not careful then they could make too big a change and make the game even more imbalanced I think they should have started considering changes months ago if they had to test it this much to make up their mind. but no, since we're stuck with this situation I'm fine with them testing different things and taking a bit of time. I just think all the pro gamers are not happy with it, by the time anything is live all the major end of the year tournaments are going to be over. They have to tweak it like this, by isolating one spell at a time and looking at it in isolation. The infestor fills so many roles, so well that, when you really have to change it, it's good practice to isolate each spell. You look at what's a 'good' way to have the spell work. If you did like, fungal nerf, IT nerf, and made an infestor 3 supply, it would be such a huge, huge nerf that, you can figure out if it went 'too far' in neutering a unit. However, you can't really figure out WHEN the point of ruining the unit was reached, or why it was, merely that you have, or haven't reached that point.
I understand the reasons, like I said I think It's fine, I just wish they would have started testing this stuff sooner. It's almost too late for it to even matter at this point with HOTS coming so soon.
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These changes are apathetic. Blizzard knows that Zerg is too good right now, but they know it is entirely down to the infestor and that Zerg would completely fall apart if all they did was nerf it because of all the issues Zerg has that it covers up. Blizzard has no intentions of overhauling Zerg now when HotS is 4 months away and they have a fresh meta game to try and get it right. Don't expect any meaningful changes until 1 - 2 patches into HotS.
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On November 30 2012 15:08 SuperYo1000 wrote:so despite having the smallest player base zerg is dominating most areas......lol
yes but zergs are 50-50 in their matchups. That's what matters according to Dustin Browder.
(which is hilarous as the top 1% terrans plays against the top 5% zergs according to the ladder distrubtions, but DB doesn't get basic statistics).
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On November 30 2012 15:48 Ziggitz wrote:
These changes are apathetic. Blizzard knows that Zerg is too good right now, but they know it is entirely down to the infestor and that Zerg would completely fall apart if all they did was nerf it because of all the issues Zerg has that it covers up. Blizzard has no intentions of overhauling Zerg now when HotS is 4 months away and they have a fresh meta game to try and get it right. Don't expect any meaningful changes until 1 - 2 patches into HotS.
This
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I would really like to see tournament performance statistics after the queen patch. No f**king sh!t they are going to prove me that zerg is performing almost the same as other two races. And they pay like zero attention to foreigner scene, where only zergs get all the results...
Also, it's not even just about balance. The design is just fucked up. Almost everyone says the the biggest (in most cases, all) joy comes from winning the competition, and not by playing the game itself.
Don't know, recent sc2 changes, whole Diablo 3 project and HotS BETA are destroying my faith in Blizzard as one of the best game companies.
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The problem with nerfing infestor too hard is that zerg will have no way to deal with a balled up death ball pre hive OR have good mobile anti air. Remember pre infestor days? Zerg would get shited on so hard in the mid game because they lacked good functional midgame units and zerg army seems like a combination of "GAIS WE GOTTA HAVE BW UNITS OR EL NO ONE WILL BUY GAME and OH THESE UNITS ARE COOL SOUNDING/ZERGY SO WE WILL ADD THEM LULZ" - DB. The infestor is like a bandaid situation to zerg's weakness and making them too strong make zerg op but without them zerg breaks.
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I am so disappointed right now in Blizzard honestly....and to think I had hope for Heart of the Swarm....
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I kinda feel like the first Infestor change (while I agree it was probably too much) was on the right track unlike this one.
It's been said before by more articulate people than me, but the problem with the Infestor comes down to the fact that it is entirely too self-sufficient. What is the downside to getting 20 infestors? 30 Infestors? Is there one? Look at all the other casters in the game... if you end up with too many of them the rest of your army suffers. Not so with Infestors...
The change they need is something to decrease their survivabilty in general. It's just so depressing when you take a battle against zerg but you can't touch his infestor horde because they run away and fungal anything that tries to pursue them leaving the zerg to quickly rebuild cheap core units. Do the sentries or templar get away when protoss loses a battle? Hardly. Ghosts can get away sometimes due to cloak, but that is something the opposing player has control of... have some detection handy and the ghosts don't generally get away either. There is really just no reliable way to kill infestors even when you win battles and to me that is ultimately the problem. The fact that unlike Terran and Protoss Zerg doesn't have to constantly remake expensive gas heavy spellcaster units is HUGE.
Enough rambling, my point is made
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On November 30 2012 16:07 Plethora wrote:
I kinda feel like the first Infestor change (while I agree it was probably too much) was on the right track unlike this one.
It's been said before by more articulate people than me, but the problem with the Infestor comes down to the fact that it is entirely too self-sufficient. What is the downside to getting 20 infestors? 30 Infestors? Is there one? Look at all the other casters in the game... if you end up with too many of them the rest of your army suffers. Not so with Infestors...
The change they need is something to decrease their survivabilty in general. It's just so depressing when you take a battle against zerg but you can't touch his infestor horde because they run away and fungal anything that tries to pursue them leaving the zerg to quickly rebuild cheap core units. Do the sentries or templar get away when protoss loses a battle? Hardly. Ghosts can get away sometimes due to cloak, but that is something the opposing player has control of... have some detection handy and the ghosts don't generally get away either. There is really just no reliable way to kill infestors even when you win battles and to me that is ultimately the problem. The fact that unlike Terran and Protoss Zerg doesn't have to constantly remake expensive gas heavy spellcaster units is HUGE.
Enough rambling, my point is made
This does somewhat address having too many infestors -- because of the increasing effectiveness of AOE later in the game (assuming armies grow in size like usual), the HP reduction on eggs will make them even easier to kill (which makes it even easier than easier for AOE).
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I tried to play the map a couple times and all 3 of the people didn't even have an idea that it was a balance change testing map and the two protoss players 4gated and cannon rushed :|
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What the heck Blizzard, deal with fungal please...
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All that talk about fungal and then it goes out the window.
Changing egg health is pointless. I actually thought it was a joke at first.
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I really wish the community would wake up and demand that ActivisionBlizz invite Browder&Kim to leave.
I mean, is it just me or does it seem like their collective egos are preventing a great deal of common sense changes and implementations to SC2 that would make the game live up to its potential greatness ?
I'm not saying that SC2 is bad, I'm just saying it is nowhere near as good as it could be.
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20 HP does what, really? Like they said, when someone has 12 or more infestors they're using Infested Terrans, not fungals. When there's 30 eggs on the field, how many do they expect me to kill?
Thanks for the 20 health Blizzard, how about increasing mana cost? Lowering the DPS? Something that will actually effect the spell or damned unit?
Raven change is cool, hope Terrans find it useful. Wouldn't know myself. But I read that HP reduction and honestly, for the first time, was kind of insulted that they would actually put that forward as a change that does anything. Sure, late game I might have the AOE to kill them all, but how many times does anyone get to vZ late game unless the Zerg wants the fight to go there? Am I supposed to turtle for 30 minutes? Because I'd really rather not.
I'm usually the first guy to swoop in and defend Blizzard against the people who shit their pants every Blizzard patch thread, but I'm just plain disappointed right now that this is their grand idea to fix Infestors. 20 HP off of Infested Terran eggs. I was so surprised, so shocked, that I wracked my brain to find and figure out if they meant some other egg.
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Seems pretty underwhelming, then again HotS is around the corner..
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Really Blizzard? Get a fucking clue. Stop wasting everyone's time with this utter garbage. If you don't know what to do, I'll help you out:
- Infested Terrans no longer benefit from Zerg carapace and range upgrades
- Infested Terran energy cost increased to 50
- Fungal Growth is now a 50% movement speed decrease (no longer a root) for the duration of the spell
- Fungal Growth area of effect radius has been decreased to 1.5 (down from 2.0)
- Neural parasite has been removed from the game
Boom. Test that out.
You're welcome.
PS. Here are some freebies if you want to fuck around with the Raven:
- Auto-Turret is now placed in the air (like a Point Defense Drone)
- Hunter Seeker Missile range has been increased to 9
- Hunter Seeker Missile energy cost has been decreased to 75
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Who the hell is going to play this test map. Nothing of significance is changed.
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no major tournament of the last 3 months was dominated by zerg, glad blizzard realized it as well instead of listening to clueless whiners
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The previous topic had 30 pages of everyone going "good changes" then was ruined by zerg whiners, I guess they won when I see those new, psychological changes :D
Is it the first big game in history that is getting ruined by the developer's blindness to obvious things ? It's funny how patching is a political thing, they can't patch zerg because the backlash is too big. I'd wish they'd read live report threads instead of patch threads, they'd see what people think of their game since the queen patch.
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EPT
