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Call to Action #2: November 30 Balance Testing - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 52 Next
bGr.MetHiX
Profile Joined February 2011
Bulgaria511 Posts
November 30 2012 08:45 GMT
#181
Blizzard is laughing in the face of the community once again.Egg hp nerf is not the way to go with the infestor.I do agree infested terrans are owning everything in ZvZ and ZvT.Nowadays they just throw 40 infested terrans and kill your nexus no matter how much army you have there.so its a sad spell...

i wish terran players can play with ghosts only

and i wish i could play with ht's only,just massing cannons and hightemplars,just like the zerg.
Top50 GM EU Protoss from Bulgaria. Streaming with commentary : www.twitch.tv/hwbgmethix
nt-rAven
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada405 Posts
November 30 2012 08:46 GMT
#182
Blizzard has made zerg fun to play, im sure its represented in zerg overall primary raise, protoss was once fun, so was terran, they just nerfed the fuck out of both races and left zerg alone if not buffed, now the only race i really find fun and balanced is zerg, the other two i find fun but unwinnable even if i micro and use my skill with my mouse it doesnt do anything because someone worse can still beat me everytime as zerg~
get owned
Talack
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada2742 Posts
November 30 2012 08:47 GMT
#183
To everyone saying that 1 storm kills eggs now.

It doesn't go check it yourself in the map editor, the egg will heal 1 hp and will spawn immediately after.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
November 30 2012 08:49 GMT
#184
On November 30 2012 17:47 Talack wrote:
To everyone saying that 1 storm kills eggs now.

It doesn't go check it yourself in the map editor, the egg will heal 1 hp and will spawn immediately after.


So this change is actually completely useless then, what's the point of playing a test map where the game is almost exactly the same other than ravens starting with seeker missile?

If they change the way the AI works with amove priority on eggs maybe some progress can be made with a change like this...
InVerno
Profile Joined May 2011
258 Posts
November 30 2012 08:51 GMT
#185
On November 30 2012 17:45 Veldril wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 17:41 nt-rAven wrote:
On November 30 2012 17:38 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I love how there is so much QQ, and much of this QQ is based on the reasoning of something like "Blizzard is missing very obvious solutions to the balance!"

but then you see all the other posts' suggestions, and they heavily differ

and also this is a test map, not an official patch, so to be fair you can't say blizzard can't balance if you don't like this change

Its not really QQ when its obvious changes, if u subtract something it will eventually have diminishing returns overtime (protoss removing amulet and voidray speed, rendering both from op to unusuable) yet with infestors instead of doing similar (removing energy upgrade which would fix it like it did templars) they let it happen because both dustin browder and david kim are zerg players at heart lol~


Lol, when the game came out they are accused being Terran players, and now they are Zerg? Man, I love how people assume things.

They might simply change the way they tweak things because how their old method might be too drastic or change the match up too much? Who know, testing one small change at a time might be a better idea.


They're testing? On the old map there wasn't any zerg at all, only protoss and terran trying to meet a zerg and never happened. I've tryed many times, and the result was a lot of PvT with low leagues. Same thing now, you cant test the map and be matched with some bronze\gold and give "interesting" data to blizzard. This maps brings nothing to blizzard, they're just deciding behind a politically correct dress.
Veldril
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand1817 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 08:58:15
November 30 2012 08:54 GMT
#186
On November 30 2012 17:49 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 17:47 Talack wrote:
To everyone saying that 1 storm kills eggs now.

It doesn't go check it yourself in the map editor, the egg will heal 1 hp and will spawn immediately after.


So this change is actually completely useless then, what's the point of playing a test map where the game is almost exactly the same other than ravens starting with seeker missile?

If they change the way the AI works with amove priority on eggs maybe some progress can be made with a change like this...


Not really, though. If the change is not working, then they know that it's not working and try something else or tweak some more. There's a saying in my lab that sometimes negative results can also tell you more than positive one. So at least, they can get data whether it's working or not and if not can adjust further.

Now if they release a patch with something that is not working, then it's time to get a pitchfork.

On November 30 2012 17:51 InVerno wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 17:45 Veldril wrote:
On November 30 2012 17:41 nt-rAven wrote:
On November 30 2012 17:38 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I love how there is so much QQ, and much of this QQ is based on the reasoning of something like "Blizzard is missing very obvious solutions to the balance!"

but then you see all the other posts' suggestions, and they heavily differ

and also this is a test map, not an official patch, so to be fair you can't say blizzard can't balance if you don't like this change

Its not really QQ when its obvious changes, if u subtract something it will eventually have diminishing returns overtime (protoss removing amulet and voidray speed, rendering both from op to unusuable) yet with infestors instead of doing similar (removing energy upgrade which would fix it like it did templars) they let it happen because both dustin browder and david kim are zerg players at heart lol~


Lol, when the game came out they are accused being Terran players, and now they are Zerg? Man, I love how people assume things.

They might simply change the way they tweak things because how their old method might be too drastic or change the match up too much? Who know, testing one small change at a time might be a better idea.


They're testing? On the old map there wasn't any zerg at all, only protoss and terran trying to meet a zerg and never happened. I've tryed many times, and the result was a lot of PvT with low leagues. Same thing now, you cant test the map and be matched with some bronze\gold and give "interesting" data to blizzard. This maps brings nothing to blizzard, they're just deciding behind a politically correct dress.


So do you work for Blizz and see how many times TvZ or PvZ or ZvZ are played on that map? Anecdotal evidence based on someone experience is not enough to justify that no Z is playing.
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
November 30 2012 08:57 GMT
#187
On November 30 2012 17:54 Veldril wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 17:49 Dodgin wrote:
On November 30 2012 17:47 Talack wrote:
To everyone saying that 1 storm kills eggs now.

It doesn't go check it yourself in the map editor, the egg will heal 1 hp and will spawn immediately after.


So this change is actually completely useless then, what's the point of playing a test map where the game is almost exactly the same other than ravens starting with seeker missile?

If they change the way the AI works with amove priority on eggs maybe some progress can be made with a change like this...


Not really, though. If the change is not working, then they know that it's not working and try something else or tweak some more. There's a saying in my lab that sometimes negative results can also tell you more than positive one. So at least, they can get data whether it's working or not.


This change as it is will not work and they shouldn't waste time testing it, if they were going to change egg HP to 80 they should have removed auto regenerate from eggs. As it is this does nothing when a single hostile zerg unit is within amove range of your units, as they will not attack the eggs without manual targeting. and don't try to tell me that you should manually target down 30+ IT eggs at 1 hp.
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
November 30 2012 08:57 GMT
#188
Blizzard is in kind of a tough spot when only competitive play really informs about balance, but the competitive players won´t invest the time in testing patches, because of their training.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
November 30 2012 08:57 GMT
#189
I haven't tried it, but imo it's safe to say that this isn't enough. They must attack the ITs themselves aswell, if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, the 80HP eggs is exactly what I would have done. But I think that ITs need -1 or -2 on their damage as well.
Veldril
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand1817 Posts
November 30 2012 09:02 GMT
#190
On November 30 2012 17:57 Big J wrote:
I haven't tried it, but imo it's safe to say that this isn't enough. They must attack the ITs themselves aswell, if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, the 80HP eggs is exactly what I would have done. But I think that ITs need -1 or -2 on their damage as well.


That, or make the IT hatched with the same HP that is left on the egg or remove the regen.
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
CYFAWS
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden275 Posts
November 30 2012 09:03 GMT
#191
I really hate that you can drop loads of IT in combat, they pop and win.

-The eggs are extremely hard to kill as a-moving generally doesn't touch them
-You don't have time to focus fire them with everything else going on, ignoring eggs is better than ignoring army, but still fatal
-Pulling back when the eggs start raining generally fucks you hard, unless the zerg started bombing at a horrible timing

On the other hand, i really like the infestors power as a sneaky motherfucker, killing bases/lazy workers with ITs, being able to fuck air harass with fungal/IT (fungal is a bleh spell, don't get me wrong, but i like that combo against air. ofc it's not needed since you can fungal stuff to death without it :c)

The most important change to IT imo would be making them pop with the same % hp as the egg had when popping. That would make it worthwhile shooting at the things, and with good splash would render IT kinda obsolete in real fights which is exactly how it should be. You can still use them for eggbombing tanklines but they wont murder the entire army on their own anymore, while this also promotes using their power in other situations. Against P i guess IT would be 100% useless in all kinds of fights just a basesniper.

Also, reverting the psionic vs fungal? makes me so sad. Sure P had stupid amounts of psionic, but i loved the thought of ghosts, psionicraven, HT, DT being able to fuck with infestors.

Last note, it's called fungal GROWTH, let it's slow grow from 0 - 100% over two seconds, then two seconds rooted. Roots stack, damage doesn't, if you want to lock something down, you'll have to cast a fungal every 2nd second instead of 4th. This fungal change really shouldn't change a whole lot except not allowing z to automurder every air unit that gets within 11 range as they will be able to increase the distance albeit slowly. Also doesnt autolock your entire army, there will be some repositioning before the lock hits.

Hope someone more coherent and well spoken reads and gets inspired by this

Scila
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1849 Posts
November 30 2012 09:03 GMT
#192
Lol so glad I quit sc2 over half a year ago (Terran player). They just keep amazing you with how clueless some of these balancing ideas are. Game is barely fun to watch as well since its stale and late game vs Zerg has huge issues.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
November 30 2012 09:05 GMT
#193
On November 30 2012 15:50 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 15:08 SuperYo1000 wrote:
On November 30 2012 14:52 Fuzer wrote:
http://starcraft2.fi/suomiladder_gm.php
Theres ladder race ratios in every realm (EU US KR) and their diversity in TOP 150 / 100 / 50



so despite having the smallest player base zerg is dominating most areas......lol


(which is hilarous as the top 1% terrans plays against the top 5% zergs according to the ladder distrubtions, but DB doesn't get basic statistics).


Blizzard balance at it's finest. I love the Zergs in here who come in to preach that everything is "okay", and then wither in the face of hard statistics.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
November 30 2012 09:05 GMT
#194
btw I'd like to add that in the HOTS beta currently IT's do keep the same HP as their " egg " when they become active, because they removed the egg component and just made it an inactive little curled up IT ball for 5 seconds instead of an egg.

They should really consider putting that change on the live version of the game.
gengka
Profile Joined September 2010
Malaysia461 Posts
November 30 2012 09:07 GMT
#195
someone in this thread trying to argue that the 80hp IT eggs will make mech vs z works. LMAO ROFL LOL the eggs still take 2 tank shots and the splash damage will still hurt the tanks themselves my fren?
Make Love Not War
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12384 Posts
November 30 2012 09:15 GMT
#196
It's a balance test map, let the players test and see how it goes.
stop overreacting before you even tested it out.

I agree that it doesn't look like it is the most ideal nerf there is but honestly, we need to wait and test it out before we start going "!#@$!@! blizzzard is a joke @# i can balance rocks on my ass better than rock team balance the game, wat a joke i quit sc2 4 gud"
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Big G
Profile Joined April 2011
Italy835 Posts
November 30 2012 09:24 GMT
#197
even though the proposed change in itself is a joke, I don't think that's the main problem. We should be more worried about their testing method. I mean, a single map with no matchmaking is totally useless, you get a bunch of people trolling around and some nice guy who purposely change its game plan and engagements to see if the changes have some effect. Even worse, when you set a balance change this small, people have no reason to waste time this way. So what are your data then? 20 proper games in a week?

Blizzard should wake up and make a "balance test day" once a week on ladder, even if it is only on Antiga. Who doesn't want to contribute can just veto that map in that specific day(s) and that's it.
Alurian
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden19 Posts
November 30 2012 09:24 GMT
#198
lol, so there is no imbalance with terran? I see the many terrans in all different cups tells the tell of no imbalance. GJ Blizz
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10325 Posts
November 30 2012 09:26 GMT
#199
On November 30 2012 17:41 nt-rAven wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 17:38 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I love how there is so much QQ, and much of this QQ is based on the reasoning of something like "Blizzard is missing very obvious solutions to the balance!"

but then you see all the other posts' suggestions, and they heavily differ

and also this is a test map, not an official patch, so to be fair you can't say blizzard can't balance if you don't like this change

Its not really QQ when its obvious changes, if u subtract something it will eventually have diminishing returns overtime (protoss removing amulet and voidray speed, rendering both from op to unusuable) yet with infestors instead of doing similar (removing energy upgrade which would fix it like it did templars) they let it happen because both dustin browder and david kim are zerg players at heart lol~


Um, nerfing the infestor also makes it weaker? There's more ways to nerf something than just taking away an upgrade. They've tested nerfing fungal, and now they're testing nerfing ITs. Both nerf the infestor which "will eventually have diminishing returns".

Also I don't see how it's obvious when you're the only one I've seen so far to suggest removing Infestor energy. Which goes back to my post, which you didn't really address at all.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
November 30 2012 09:28 GMT
#200
Would this actually be the first patch (ignoring the bunker) in SC2 history that literally does nothing?

It's like there are 2 balance teams at Blizzard. One that does huge nerfs after like one or two weaks of a strategy dominating (blue flame, ghost snipe, 250mm, etc) and another that just looks at global % and never does anything. How about merging the 2 teams?

Anyway, this is Blizzard saying that mass Infestor and chain FG is ok from a balance point of view. It might be, but the game looks Awful.

With the Raven they are missing the point FFS, it not the damn 150min/gas that is the problem, it's the god damn time it takes to get a HSM ready Raven...
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
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