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Call to Action #2: November 30 Balance Testing - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Zealot Lord
Profile Joined May 2010
Hong Kong747 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 06:06:36
November 30 2012 06:05 GMT
#121
wow, I'm speechless about the changes, but at the same time I'm not surprised, Blizzard does have a tendency to find a way to disappoint lately =/

even if they don't change anything regarding the spell itself, can't they at least just tweak supply cost of infestors and energy cost of fungals & infested terrans (especially during these tests)? still praying that the projectile change goes through in HOTS, but I'm not hopeful at this stage...

and the free seeker missle does absolutely nothing, its not like terrans are having trouble lategame TvZ because they couldn't research HSM in time due to the cost or something -_-
HeavenResign
Profile Joined April 2011
United States702 Posts
November 30 2012 06:06 GMT
#122
On November 30 2012 14:52 Fuzer wrote:
http://starcraft2.fi/suomiladder_gm.php
Theres ladder race ratios in every realm (EU US KR) and their diversity in TOP 150 / 100 / 50


If this was in response to my post, I'm pretty quick to admit that at the highest levels things aren't so hot balance wise but he was referencing average players in masters as being very zerg heavy, which it isn't even close to the extent as it is in GM.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 06:07:36
November 30 2012 06:06 GMT
#123
On November 30 2012 14:45 uberism wrote:
According to blizzard, the win rates of each of the races are pretty much balanced.
The only reason they are making changes to the infestor is because the community perceives that there is an imbalance.


Rock-Paper-Scissors is balanced, but is really boring to watch and relatively skilless. The Infestor needs to be changed because it makes the game boring, and doesn't require a ton of skill to use. Any Masters Zerg can chain Fungals, it isn't like Marine splitting where MKP can make a Masters Terran look like a fool.
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
November 30 2012 06:08 GMT
#124
On November 30 2012 14:52 Fuzer wrote:
http://starcraft2.fi/suomiladder_gm.php
Theres ladder race ratios in every realm (EU US KR) and their diversity in TOP 150 / 100 / 50



so despite having the smallest player base zerg is dominating most areas......lol
Maesy
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1444 Posts
November 30 2012 06:09 GMT
#125
On November 30 2012 14:59 Lumi wrote:
People are so consumed with their biases. They get informed of an existent balance at large, and especially at the pro level, and go on verbally writhe with complaints of racial struggles and we're so fucked, and blahblah blah blah blah. It's almost as if the pros know how to suck it up, practice and overcome things, where-as the 98% of players who aren't even in something as easy to get into as low NA masters are here reinforcing their sense of having wrongly lost games because of imbalance, instead of addressing their own imperfections. When's the last time you went up a league? What is all of this whiney catharsis doing for you?

The age old whines of imba from players who aren't even notably good at the game, and who lack an honest approach to improving and overcoming things within it. Such marvelously loud stagnation.


Thanks for taking my thoughts and typing it out... intelligently.
Official Nathanias Fanclub Manager! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=401880
Resistentialism
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada688 Posts
November 30 2012 06:12 GMT
#126
So do the eggs die to one storm?
sevia
Profile Joined May 2010
United States954 Posts
November 30 2012 06:13 GMT
#127
This is honestly very surprising. The community has decided pretty unanimously that fungal is the real problem, and Blizzard has been fairly sensitive to our concerns lately.
최지성 Bomber || 김동환 viOLet || 고병재 GuMiho
Teggy03
Profile Joined April 2011
34 Posts
November 30 2012 06:15 GMT
#128
FF needs to be fixed just as much as Fungal does.
Glockateer
Profile Joined June 2009
United States254 Posts
November 30 2012 06:20 GMT
#129
I don't see what is so hard about making fungal a 90% slow and infested terran 30 mana. Hunter seeker casting range increased to 7 with no research. There you go, antiga test 1.5.3 #3

They also keep picking antiga shipyard, a mainly terran favored map due to the drop/ledge play being so easily accessible.
GET SM4SHED
ultratorr
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada332 Posts
November 30 2012 06:29 GMT
#130
at least hots is coming out soon
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
November 30 2012 06:30 GMT
#131
On November 30 2012 11:08 Shiori wrote:
These are the most embarrassingly worthless changes possible. I'm seriously contemplating quitting this game if this is how Blizzard approaches balance.

are these changes live? no?

there doing exactly what they should be doing making small changes, seeing what happens then adjusting the change at 80 health one storm kills the eggs (dunno about duration or if eggs regen and saves it) but if/when tehy see that this doesnt affect ITs then next stop might be less damage per shot or slower attack or less health on the actual IT
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
November 30 2012 06:30 GMT
#132
On November 30 2012 15:15 Teggy03 wrote:
FF needs to be fixed just as much as Fungal does.

not even close
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
November 30 2012 06:31 GMT
#133
On November 30 2012 15:30 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 11:08 Shiori wrote:
These are the most embarrassingly worthless changes possible. I'm seriously contemplating quitting this game if this is how Blizzard approaches balance.

are these changes live? no?

there doing exactly what they should be doing making small changes, seeing what happens then adjusting the change at 80 health one storm kills the eggs (dunno about duration or if eggs regen and saves it) but if/when tehy see that this doesnt affect ITs then next stop might be less damage per shot or slower attack or less health on the actual IT


I think the reason a lot of people are upset is because they want changes to go live as soon as possible and testing 10 different changes one week each is going to make the process take quite a while when they have already been waiting since May.
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
November 30 2012 06:32 GMT
#134
On November 30 2012 15:30 Drowsy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 15:15 Teggy03 wrote:
FF needs to be fixed just as much as Fungal does.

not even close

toss use FF as a crutch as much as zerg use fungal as a crutch it would be nice if both could get removed from the game and the game stayed balanced
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
November 30 2012 06:34 GMT
#135
On November 30 2012 15:31 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 15:30 Forikorder wrote:
On November 30 2012 11:08 Shiori wrote:
These are the most embarrassingly worthless changes possible. I'm seriously contemplating quitting this game if this is how Blizzard approaches balance.

are these changes live? no?

there doing exactly what they should be doing making small changes, seeing what happens then adjusting the change at 80 health one storm kills the eggs (dunno about duration or if eggs regen and saves it) but if/when tehy see that this doesnt affect ITs then next stop might be less damage per shot or slower attack or less health on the actual IT


I think the reason a lot of people are upset is because they want changes to go live as soon as possible and testing 10 different changes one week each is going to make the process take quite a while when they have already been waiting since May.

would you rather them rush out a change that makes the game worse then take even longer jsut to get back to where they were?

the game is like 5% inbalanced its that last 5% thats a killer if there not careful then they could make too big a change and make the game even more imbalanced
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
November 30 2012 06:34 GMT
#136
blizzard is so afraid to nerf zergs, even with the majority of the community behind them they can't find the balls and they retreat back to a non-issue nerf :/
GreyKnight
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4720 Posts
November 30 2012 06:35 GMT
#137
On November 30 2012 15:32 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 15:30 Drowsy wrote:
On November 30 2012 15:15 Teggy03 wrote:
FF needs to be fixed just as much as Fungal does.

not even close

toss use FF as a crutch as much as zerg use fungal as a crutch it would be nice if both could get removed from the game and the game stayed balanced


zerg will be fine if infestors are nerfed, if forcefield is changed in anyway protoss will lose everygame
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25056 Posts
November 30 2012 06:35 GMT
#138
I still like how Blizzard are approaching things, even though most of you guys aren't.

I hate infestor play a hell of a lot too, but it seems they are trying to tweak small things. This is GOOD. Blizzard are lambasted for being inconsistent in balance tweaking, but they actually aren't. It's a common misunderstanding.

1. Period were Terrans got nerfbombed. This leads to:

Blizzard announce that they're trying to be more transparent, and also 'let the metagame settle' rather than trying to patch as much. They LITERALLY said this. They then made the Queen/Ovie change as the last 'big' patch. I feel that that patch was too good, and Blizz didn't predict all the consequences, but they announced they were going to try to patch less.

2. Period where 'Patchzergs' aren't nerfed hard. It's not that Blizzard hate Terran at all. It's that the period where Terran got nerfed, correlated with the period Blizzard wanted to balance more by patching than by metagame/maps. Now, unfortunately for non-Zergs, Blizzard are being much more careful in how they are tweaking Z. Part of this is due to our own feedback that Blizz should be less trigger-happy, so don't blame them for listening to us.

Indeed, I think they're actually using the balance test map to test out, not what they want to do, but the concept. I don't know how they'd use the data collected from games on such maps, but I imagine they're somehow doing that.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Naphal
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany2099 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 06:42:11
November 30 2012 06:39 GMT
#139
yeye statistics fine blabla, terran is not fine, clumped up in bronze, less represented in all other leagues, nearly nonexistent in the eu / na proscene and even struggeling in korea, but lets give them seeker missile without an upgrade... that gives you AT MOST 2 seekermissiles (and vs anything else but BL/corruptor cloud the usefulness of those might be questionable) before you actually start making the transition, at which point the cost for the upgrade is really not the issue.

also how hard can it be to nerf the infestor? if they dont find a "smart" way to nerf it, then nerf the numbers, and by that i really do not mean the egghealth, but rather IT dmg or attackspeed or so, or maybe DO nerf fungal by replacing root with snare, instant with projectile or lowering the damage.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 06:41:16
November 30 2012 06:40 GMT
#140
On November 30 2012 15:34 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 15:31 Dodgin wrote:
On November 30 2012 15:30 Forikorder wrote:
On November 30 2012 11:08 Shiori wrote:
These are the most embarrassingly worthless changes possible. I'm seriously contemplating quitting this game if this is how Blizzard approaches balance.

are these changes live? no?

there doing exactly what they should be doing making small changes, seeing what happens then adjusting the change at 80 health one storm kills the eggs (dunno about duration or if eggs regen and saves it) but if/when tehy see that this doesnt affect ITs then next stop might be less damage per shot or slower attack or less health on the actual IT


I think the reason a lot of people are upset is because they want changes to go live as soon as possible and testing 10 different changes one week each is going to make the process take quite a while when they have already been waiting since May.

would you rather them rush out a change that makes the game worse then take even longer jsut to get back to where they were?

the game is like 5% inbalanced its that last 5% thats a killer if there not careful then they could make too big a change and make the game even more imbalanced


I think they should have started considering changes months ago if they had to test it this much to make up their mind.

but no, since we're stuck with this situation I'm fine with them testing different things and taking a bit of time. I just think all the pro gamers are not happy with it, by the time anything is live all the major end of the year tournaments are going to be over.
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