EPTCall to Action #2: November 30 Balance Testing - Page 19
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
First things first, I think this egg change will very quickly be amended or will be added in addition to further reworks. IT eggs dying to storm makes perfect sense to me because it's a micro reaction that trades energy for energy and rewards reaction speed. If it turns out that storm don't kill eggs, then I'm not a fan of this. I personally think diminishing returns on fungal in both/either damage or duration/efficacy would be a good idea because chaining fungals just isn't good gameplay or fun to observe. I look forward to the balance work that fungal needs and Ihope that it reaches a healthy conclusion that everyone, all parties and races, are equally unhappy with as that will be the sign that it's truly balanced. That being said, the vast majority of the vocal Terran playerbase sounds like a classroom full of Westchester entitled brats right now. When Zerg literally couldn't scout your marauder hellion all-in, or couldn't come ahead against Eco-hellion with runbye because you could out macro and still apply insane pressure, no zergs were boycotting, threatening uninstalling, or creating the toxic player experience we all endure today. Calm down, pick your pacifiers up off the kitchen floor, and please rejoin a community that you are fracturing right now with your bile. A certain dark side of my Zerg roots feels like this is just desserts, but I love this game and its playerbase and hate to see it suffer so. For all those "OMG Thank god I quit and now play LoL exclusively hurr durr" I think that's totally fine and have no problem with that. Play whatever you brings you enjoyment! I think that's totally cool to enjoy both games; I play LoL often and frequently find myself playing when I should play sc2. Something about getting that last bit of IP for that next hero or some other baby hook, really pulls me in. But if you do play LoL and attempt to climb the ladder there, don't pretend your getting revenge by coming into these threads and "gloating". Every time I see such posts all I see is a kid saying "I can't handle the strategic and mechanical challenges this game presents so I'm going to run away and hide now". Play everything and enjoy everything! And stop your damn bitching please. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10383 Posts
You forget splash, so yes it will be less tank shots | ||
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SnowyPhantom
United States3 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:28 Jermstuddog wrote: Blizzards balance philosophy annoys me to no end. Everybody knows the issue is with Fungal Growth. 90% of the suggestions involve removing the root effect from the damn ability. Blizzards answer? "We don't think it would really solve much, so we're not even going to bother trying it out! Here, try -20hp on eggs instead. Oh, btw, make sure to play OUR balance suggestion lots (even though we won't consider yours), FOR THE GOOD OF THE GAME!" WTF? They don't want to take drastic action because the infestor isnt OBSCENELY OVERPOWERED. So instead, they tweaking things little by little, step by step to see where the balance will swing after these changes. They could end up changing the root effect in a future, who knows? It's still pretty early testing | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:49 Kronen wrote: That being said, the vast majority of the vocal Terran playerbase sounds like a classroom full of Westchester entitled brats right now. When Zerg literally couldn't scout your marauder hellion all-in, or couldn't come ahead against Eco-hellion with runbye because you could out macro and still apply insane pressure, no zergs were boycotting, threatening uninstalling, or creating the toxic player experience we all endure today. Calm down, pick your pacifiers up off the kitchen floor, and please rejoin a community that you are fracturing right now with your bile. A certain dark side of my Zerg roots feels like this is just desserts, but I love this game and its playerbase and hate to see it suffer so. cause obviously giving a race tools to SCOUT ALLINS BETTER ____AND____ also giving a unit that's used anyways extra range TO DEAL with 99% of the all-ins is obviously good game design and balance philosophy? Give me a break + Show Spoiler + Hint: That's actually totally retarded to do. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
ZvP is the only matchup that has remained relatively stale and imbalanced lategame for a significant time. That said, I don't feel the egg HP change is enough by itself. ITs should be synchronized health-wise with the eggs (instead of a full regen). I'd be in favor of a third nerf to Infestors of some sort too, some kind of minor fungal nerf. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:54 dcemuser wrote: ZvT is not the matchup that they should be looking at, at all, so I hope they aren't (and I don't think so, since the storm was the only big affect of changing egg HP). Whining Terrans should look for in-game solutions first and worry about nerfs/buffs later. You still have at least another few months before you're getting any, so don't bother. ZvP is the only matchup that has remained relatively stale and imbalanced lategame for a significant time. That said, I don't feel the egg HP change is enough by itself. ITs should be synchronized health-wise with the eggs (instead of a full regen). I'd be in favor of a third nerf to Infestors of some sort too, some kind of minor fungal nerf. It's been almost 8 months and TvZ remains without a clear solution. At what point are you to conclude there is none? A year? | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
You will never burn through 80hp eggs with how many infestors can spam, it doesn't change the unit in the slightest. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:51 SnowyPhantom wrote: They don't want to take drastic action because the infestor isnt OBSCENELY OVERPOWERED. So instead, they tweaking things little by little, step by step to see where the balance will swing after these changes. They could end up changing the root effect in a future, who knows? It's still pretty early testing The problem is that this isn't a one-time occurrence. For the first 18 months of the game, the Marine dominated pretty much anything involving Terran, the unit was just too damn good. What did Blizzard do? Nerf Ghosts, Nerf Bunkers, Nerf Barracks, Nerf Siege Tanks, Nerf Thors, Nerf Hellions, Nerf Battle Cruisers. And yet, the Marine remains as good as ever and Terran struggles with late-game engagements when the power of their one good unit finally starts to wane. Why didn't Blizzard just SLIGHTLY nerf the Marine from the get-go? They've caused more problems by refusing to address the one root cause in the beginning. Snipe too strong in specific TvZ situations? Nerf everything about the Ghost! Same thing with every change they have ever done to anything in SC2 since release pretty much. Colossus is causing problems in ZvP? Let's buff infestors, that should fix it! Fungal Growth causing problems in ZvP? Nerf Neural Parasite! 1-1-1 too powerful in PvT? Give +1 range to Immortals! Warp Gate was a bad idea? Reduce pylon power range by 1! +20 second research time! -5 second to sentry build time! Those changes definitely address our lack of design flaw awareness~ Blizzard never seems willing to deal with the problem at hand, instead, they nerf/buff related units, causing still more problems in the game and lowering the quality of games in general. This particular problem they've arrived at is that Fungal is too good and everything else about Zerg is too worthless. They can't find some oddball solution to side-step the issue yet, they're still looking. I can still dream that someday Blizzard will wake up and address the core problems in their game. The ideal time to do this is with HotS. I will keep watching and hoping, but I'm not buying until I see a good game. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:00 Bagi wrote: Man, if they were going to make a joke patch, should have added a bunker change there too. You will never burn through 80hp eggs with how many infestors can spam, it doesn't change the unit in the slightest. That's why the zergs posting in this thread are saying it's a good idea !:D | ||
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Jaiden
Germany60 Posts
Please grow some balls and test drastic changes like 3 supply cost, lower IT dps, 50 energy IT cost and/or FG projectile. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:04 MrCon wrote: That's why the zergs posting in this thread are saying it's a good idea !:D it's a good strategy for them. | ||
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Dbla08
United States211 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:12 Dbla08 wrote: funny how so many people demand a fungal growth change without giving anything back to zerg at all. yes broodlord infestor is incredibly strong, because fungal ROOTS, not slows, take away the root and broodlord infestor is incredibly fragile as well as slow-moving, not to mention slowing a stalker doesn't keep it from blinking. zerg either needs a different unit that grants aoe/zoning if they want fungal growth nerfed to near uselessness (like neural parasite was) or the other races need to actually attempt to counter it without relying on bullshit like archon toilet or mass seeker missile, although the latter actually can produce interesting micro situations for zerg, i don't feel like casting fire and forget missiles depicts fun or skill intensive play, at least the raven is slow enough to not do it without potential consequence. Truly i think the answer is change both the infestor, and the hydra. make hydra's worth their cost, or change their cost/supply, while simultaneously nerfing fungal and it might stay somewhat "balanced." Generally when something is blatantly overpowered is it nerfed without compensation ... | ||
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Gijian
United States273 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:06 Jaiden wrote: This is a slap in the face. This is the "big" Infestor nerf? Is this a joke? I really don't unterstand why Blizzard usually tries to fix Protoss and Terran with an axe but Zerg changes look like they made it with tweezers. Please grow some balls and test drastic changes like 3 supply cost, lower IT dps, 50 energy IT cost and/or FG projectile. Yup not to mention when Zerg get buffed, they pimped out pretty hard. 3 to 5 range queen and overlord speed, talk about sending terran to the dark ages for the longest time with that buff. On December 01 2012 01:15 Tenks wrote: funny how so many people demand a fungal growth change without giving anything back to zerg at all. yes broodlord infestor is incredibly strong, because fungal ROOTS, not slows, take away the root and broodlord infestor is incredibly fragile as well as slow-moving, not to mention slowing a stalker doesn't keep it from blinking. zerg either needs a different unit that grants aoe/zoning if they want fungal growth nerfed to near uselessness (like neural parasite was) or the other races need to actually attempt to counter it without relying on bullshit like archon toilet or mass seeker missile, although the latter actually can produce interesting micro situations for zerg, i don't feel like casting fire and forget missiles depicts fun or skill intensive play, at least the raven is slow enough to not do it without potential consequence. Truly i think the answer is change both the infestor, and the hydra. make hydra's worth their cost, or change their cost/supply, while simultaneously nerfing fungal and it might stay somewhat "balanced." I don't think terran got any compensation when Snipe got raped. | ||
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artosismermaid
213 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:12 Dbla08 wrote: funny how so many people demand a fungal growth change without giving anything back to zerg at all. yes broodlord infestor is incredibly strong, because fungal ROOTS, not slows, take away the root and broodlord infestor is incredibly fragile as well as slow-moving, not to mention slowing a stalker doesn't keep it from blinking. zerg either needs a different unit that grants aoe/zoning if they want fungal growth nerfed to near uselessness (like neural parasite was) or the other races need to actually attempt to counter it without relying on bullshit like archon toilet or mass seeker missile, although the latter actually can produce interesting micro situations for zerg, i don't feel like casting fire and forget missiles depicts fun or skill intensive play, at least the raven is slow enough to not do it without potential consequence. Truly i think the answer is change both the infestor, and the hydra. make hydra's worth their cost, or change their cost/supply, while simultaneously nerfing fungal and it might stay somewhat "balanced." like when ghosts were nerfed to the ground twice and terran was given nothing in return? | ||
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Magnious
United States68 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:06 Jaiden wrote: This is a slap in the face. This is the "big" Infestor nerf? Is this a joke? I really don't unterstand why Blizzard usually tries to fix Protoss and Terran with an axe but Zerg changes look like they made it with tweezers. Please grow some balls and test drastic changes like 3 supply cost, lower IT dps, 50 energy IT cost and/or FG projectile. As a matter of fact, the Zerg race has received the least amount of nerfs in WoL for all races. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:23 Magnious wrote: I think some people are missing something. They want to make small changes, and test them to keep the game balanced. If they decide it needs more, they will increase the changes. This is a test...of the emergency balance system. This is only a test. Except we've been dealing with this for quite a while now. I mean blue flame hellions came onto the scene at MLG and like a month later it was nerfed to useless. Ghosts were the answer to Inf/BL->Ultra for only a short while until nerfed to useless. I honestly don't really know Blizzard's direction in balance anymore. I kind of started to question it after the left-field queen range buff. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
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