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On December 01 2012 01:23 Magnious wrote:
I think some people are missing something. They want to make small changes, and test them to keep the game balanced. If they decide it needs more, they will increase the changes. This is a test...of the emergency balance system. This is only a test.
If they wanted to make small changes, they would have made a small changes first time round.
No one sane could think that the previous changes to infestors were small.
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LMAO!
"These are the most embarrassingly worthless changes possible. I'm seriously contemplating quitting this game if this is how Blizzard approaches balance."
The very first reply completely sums up my feelings, so glad I have basically quit this game. The only time I touch it is for meaningless 3v3 off racing when I'm drunk 90 percent of the time.
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On December 01 2012 01:23 Magnious wrote:
I think some people are missing something. They want to make small changes, and test them to keep the game balanced. If they decide it needs more, they will increase the changes. This is a test...of the emergency balance system. This is only a test.
That these "small changes" are worthless and wont change anything is crystal clear to anyone with a functioning brain.
- Seeker Missile costs a crapton of energy, so the upgrade is NEVER the reason why its not used. Try changing the range or lowering the energy instead ...
- The eggs are apparently "targeting priority zero", i.e. not targeted at all ... and who on earth wants to force players to focus fire the eggs? So that change doesnt matter at all either. Try reducing the range to 6 OR increasing the energy cost from a ridiculously low 25 to an acceptable 50 ... They could even remove upgrades working on the Infested Terrans or remove the stupid "egg is done morphing so the unit spawns at FULL HEALTH and forgets any damage to the egg" part.
Blizzard gets 1 out of 10 for this ... and that one point is for being willing to try stuff. Lets hope they choose a non-anti-Zerg map this time, which WONT affect the balance results ...
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On December 01 2012 01:23 Magnious wrote:
I think some people are missing something. They want to make small changes, and test them to keep the game balanced. If they decide it needs more, they will increase the changes. This is a test...of the emergency balance system. This is only a test.
I think you're missing something... lol
The thread is called "Balance Testing." Everyone know's its a test and the people vocallizing their opinion the loudest are the most aware that it is a test.
Personally, I don't agree with the change. Its too subtle. I like the raven change somewhat. The Infestor needs a different change.
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Blizzard - "We understand that there is a consensus that fungal is a bit too strong, so to solve the problem, we decided to nerf infested terran."
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I think it's great that they're testing different things and don't get stuck with just one mission in mind.
I definitely applaud Blizzard for their initiative here, although I might not 100 % agree with it.
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This is a great change. The ghost/HT being immune to fungal would have killed lategame zerg. Now players will have more incentive to focus infested terrans in their egg form, not only bringing another dynamic into fights, but also toning down the infestor without completely changing zerg mid-late composition.
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On December 01 2012 01:33 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 01:23 Magnious wrote:
I think some people are missing something. They want to make small changes, and test them to keep the game balanced. If they decide it needs more, they will increase the changes. This is a test...of the emergency balance system. This is only a test. That these "small changes" are worthless and wont change anything is crystal clear to anyone with a functioning brain. - Seeker Missile costs a crapton of energy, so the upgrade is NEVER the reason why its not used. Try changing the range or lowering the energy instead ... - The eggs are apparently "targeting priority zero", i.e. not targeted at all ... and who on earth wants to force players to focus fire the eggs? So that change doesnt matter at all either. Try reducing the range to 6 OR increasing the energy cost from a ridiculously low 25 to an acceptable 50 ... They could even remove upgrades working on the Infested Terrans or remove the stupid "egg is done morphing so the unit spawns at FULL HEALTH and forgets any damage to the egg" part. Blizzard gets 1 out of 10 for this ... and that one point is for being willing to try stuff. Lets hope they choose a non-anti-Zerg map this time, which WONT affect the balance results ...
The "done morphing and get full HP" is really frustrating to me as a player and a spectator. Suppose the zerg is morphing his BLs in an easily attacked location, and I see them morphing in. Do I dash in to try to snipe one only to have it spawn with full HP and I lose a handful of stalkers/marines for free? If they are about to finish morphing, then I'm screwed going in because I do effectively zero damage. And as a spectator, nothing more annoying than seeing a small group or rines/stalkers catching morphing BLs, only to almost kill it and seeing it regenerate to full HP. Then the player gets punished for catching the morphing BLs out of position instead of rewarded with a BL kill.
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On December 01 2012 01:40 Gijian wrote:
Blizzard - "We understand that there is a consensus that fungal is a bit too strong, so to solve the problem, we decided to nerf infested terran."
haha
You forgot to add
Blizzard - "P.S..... PPPPPLLLLEEEASSSEEEE PLEEASSE PLEASE USE RAVENS =[.... somebody... anybody....... hello? anyone still here?"
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Wow, such a missed opportunity!
And who on earth do you think is willing to test these "changes"?
This is the best you can come up with after such a long time of broodlord infestor boredom?
On the other hand: Who still cares?
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I always though that "game is dead" was just a joke.
Honestly, I can't see how this patch will save us from BL/IF boredom.
and who give them the feedback?
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On December 01 2012 01:25 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 01:06 Jaiden wrote:
This is a slap in the face. This is the "big" Infestor nerf? Is this a joke? I really don't unterstand why Blizzard usually tries to fix Protoss and Terran with an axe but Zerg changes look like they made it with tweezers.
Please grow some balls and test drastic changes like 3 supply cost, lower IT dps, 50 energy IT cost and/or FG projectile. As a matter of fact, the Zerg race has received the least amount of nerfs in WoL for all races.
To be fair, Zerg started off very stunted in early SC2 due to a variety of factors: map size (e.g. Steppes), difficulty to take a third (Vertical Spawns on Shakuras), and player inexperience with the race (e.g. underestimating the importance of creep). I believe that, for the first year (perhaps even year and a half), zerg stayed below 50% winrates in ZvT and ZvP (especially ZvT). Thus, it would make sense that the race has received the least amount of nerfs; it's had the least amount of time as "OP."
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Don't really know how they can fix the infestor tbh. They've just dug themselves in such a deep hole by refusing for so long to recognize BL+infestor synergy is just way to strong. It has just changed into such a core problem in the zerg race, where they rely on the infestor and then BL comes out it is lights out for the opponent.
I guess fungal not hitting air would be the closest thing I can think of, maybe with spore crawlers doing more dmg to bionic units to try fight against mutas ZvZ? Not sure, stargate play would then become so powerful in the midgame/early lategame, and still infestors would probably be worth massing due to IT spam. In that sense, IT(and auto turret, but it doesnt scale) is such a bad spell.
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I know you are reading this thread Michael Morhaime
I would suggest that you fire your balance team, and your lead designer while you still have the ability to do so.
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Blizzard releases a map to test data on possible solutions and the community flips the fuck out anyways. Lol.
On December 01 2012 01:52 shivver wrote:
I know you are reading this thread Michael Morhaime
I would suggest that you fire your balance team, and your lead designer while you still have the ability to do so.
Make sure you suggest someone better so they aren't left without a balance team for a few weeks afterwards. I know Mike is subscribed to your post history and will jump right on it.
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I know this will be the unpopular opinion in here but as a protoss I actually really like the infested terran change. Do I still think that fungal needs a change? Absolutely. However, at least for toss, the infested terran egg change makes it just 1 storm to get rid of a batch of IT eggs. That's pretty huge. don't need to focus fire, just storm the biggest batches of eggs, as long as you get more than 3 eggs in the storm you're trading energy well, plus this helps prevent a lot of the IT overruns that happen so often.
On the other hand, please fix fungal blizzard.
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Could you guys try to be critical and say WHY you think these changes are bad, rather than whining about them? Infested Terrans are extremely common. If there are infestors, there are infested terrans. Zerg is getting a nerf, you have yet to see it in action, if you're going to complain about a patch that you haven't even seen yet, then at least try proposing why this is bad and how this won't be enough. Every tournament in the past month proves that infestors are not fool-proof.
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On December 01 2012 01:58 Cornix wrote:
I know this will be the unpopular opinion in here but as a protoss I actually really like the infested terran change. Do I still think that fungal needs a change? Absolutely. However, at least for toss, the infested terran egg change makes it just 1 storm to get rid of a batch of IT eggs. That's pretty huge. don't need to focus fire, just storm the biggest batches of eggs, as long as you get more than 3 eggs in the storm you're trading energy well, plus this helps prevent a lot of the IT overruns that happen so often.
On the other hand, please fix fungal blizzard.
It doesn't work that way. The eggs still outregen a single storm and have to eat multiple storms for the entire 5 second duration to die before hatching. It'd take way more storms than you're thinking.
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There is seriously nothing to be lost by improving the range of seeker missile so it isn't suicidal every single time because it doesn't instantly kill the unit it is attached to. I don't understand why they are so reticent to do this given that fungal basically is a guaranteed infinity damage no matter what it lands on because of the lockdown.
Similarly, they need to further nerf infested terrans if they are going to have any effect on infestor effectiveness. As I mentioned earlier, I suggest nerfing the casting range and the health of the eggs to two siege tank shots, as well as the armour and also change attack priorities so IT eggs have the same priority as infested terrans themselves.
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This is awful.
They won't buff terran til the end of the world.
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EPT
