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ref4
2933 Posts
On November 30 2012 23:46 tomatriedes wrote: Yeah dude, GSL semifinals are totally PvZvPvZ. all of this season's GSL semifinalists were eliminated yesterday HyuN by Creator Sniper by theSTC Ryung by Scarlett Bogus by Violet you were saying? | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
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JKM
Denmark419 Posts
- They should consider adding 0.5-1s delay between each egg, which would make it much harder for people to spout 50 eggs out at once (using shift-queue, scroller-"trick", or superfast clicking!). - They should consider having the damage that eggs take carry over to the spawned infested terrans. That way we protosses can decide to swipe a few times on the eggs with colossus or throw a storm on the eggs and actually have a benefit from it. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On November 30 2012 23:28 Masayume wrote: I do not understand this change... First of all, a PSI Storm on Eggs will not kill said eggs due to passive health regeneration. Furthermore, if regen wouldn't be there and if a PSI Storm hits whenever there is 3 seconds left for an IT to spawn, they will spawn with full health before the storm finishes. Now you have spawned ITs' with 60% of their life still there after the last storm tick. IT spawns with full health regardless of damage done to the egg. Egg takes 5 seconds to spawn the IT. Storm does 80 damage in 4 seconds. so If you Storm where the Eggs land and Storm a second time (regeneration is no factor here as its really hard to storm perfectly timed anyway). All the eggs will die without spawning ITs, just to Storm alone. Before Storm wasn't able to kill the Eggs on its own. So the ITs spawned nevertheless and did damage. It will most of all stop massing Infestors in PvZ to just Fungal the Army and let the Infested Terrans do the job and then retreat to gather more energy. As storm now deals perfectly with this sort of usage of Infested Terrans. Meanwhile the Eggs don't use viability as damage soaks in TvZ for example. Where this sort of play is no Issue at all. This change reduces the damage you will do with alot of Infested Terrans. Its just a small change, but it helps alot. And won't affect small numbers of Infestors or the harassment ability. Just the usage in big fights. So Perfectly addressed the Issue of Massfestor play in PvZ without hurting anything else. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On November 30 2012 23:41 Censured wrote: Hey, just got an idea. What about instead of these small nerfs, like 5% damage here, 3% speed there... what if blizzard take the broodwar path - lets buff the infestor, give fungal 65 damage... buff the tanks, give them back their 70 damage, and make them much cheaper.... buff the colossus, for example make it attack slower, but deal 100 damage etc. Lets just create absolutely overpowered units for each race, and somehow balance it around these units. I mean, look at broodwar - how was 75 mineral vulture with 3 spider mines balanced? How was lurker okay? What about reaver with its insane splash damage? In todays terms, these units are absolutely OP, but still, every race got few units like this, so it was ok. Well this has been asked for since WoL beta stages and Blizzard answer was always the same: "Go play BW." So don't expect this no matter how much better or smarter it would be. Only way to have this would be to get rid of Dustin Browder and replace him with someone smart. | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
About that change, it's a start but it feel too little, imo they should -Solidarize the egg's HP and the IT HP, so when you damage the egg, you damage the marine -Reduce infestor model to allow more efficients EMP On a global scale they should focus on giving terrans more options against infestor, Protoss dont have any trouble against Zerg right now | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
This change reduces the damage you will do with alot of Infested Terrans. Its just a small change, but it helps alot. And won't affect small numbers of Infestors or the harassment ability. Just the usage in big fights. So Perfectly addressed the Issue of Massfestor play in PvZ without hurting anything else. This is very true, but I'm not sure "not hurting anything else" is a good thing. Infestors are not just a problem in PvZ, they are an issue in all Zerg matchups. Now, during the Beta, is precisely the time to make larger changes concerning the Infestor's use. At the bare minimum, we should be seeing Fungal turned into a projectile, and probably given a range nerf as well. Ideally, I'd like larger changes--either make it a slow rather than stopping all movement, or shorten the duration and/or increase the energy cost to reduce chain fungalling. | ||
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saynomore
Norway149 Posts
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
Not to mention that storm would have to kill eggs in three or fewer damage ticks for it to even be useful vs eggs... The time delay between the first egg and the last could mean that only a chunk of the eggs die even though they all got stormed... 5 second blizz time to spawn give the Protoss less than 1 second to cast the storm (which lasts 4 seconds), meaning the Protoss would have to storm the exact moment the second egg hit the ground to kill more than 1 egg's worth of Infested Terran eggs... (This is assuming that the Infested Terran egg's health regen didn't negate all of this anyway, as it is now, you need an preemptive storm and a second storm to kill the blighters) Waaaaay too much of a steep curve for just about 3 egg's worth. On December 01 2012 00:01 saynomore wrote: Why dont they just increase the cost of infestors? If they dont want zergs to make so many of them, increase their cost. Make it so they cost 200 gas or something, that should limit the zerg players possibility to just mass infestors. Nice idea... but changing Leenock's 30 infestors into Leenock's 22 infestors doesn't change much. Plus, it changes nothing about the Zerg endgame army. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:01 saynomore wrote: Why dont they just increase the cost of infestors? If they dont want zergs to make so many of them, increase their cost. Make it so they cost 200 gas or something, that should limit the zerg players possibility to just mass infestors. increasing resource cost won't help, if a Zerg is able to get to the late game, he will likely have all the vespene gesyers mining. Increasing the supply from 2 -> 3, however, will help more than increasing the gas cost. | ||
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SKYFISH_
Bulgaria990 Posts
Well, all I know is that the game sucks and I aint dishing out 40E for a campaign. Guess I'll ''wait'' for LotV then? | ||
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Grim Hatter
Poland52 Posts
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:04 ShatterZer0 wrote: Nice idea... but changing Leenock's 30 infestors into Leenock's 22 infestors doesn't change much. Plus, it changes nothing about the Zerg endgame army. increasing resource cost won't help, if a Zerg is able to get to the late game, he will likely have all the vespene gesyers mining. Increasing the supply from 2 -> 3, however, will help more than increasing the gas cost. 30 infestor to 22 infestor is a massive difference, and once a Zerg get to the late game he want to keep all of his infestor alive as long as possible so any chunk of gas can go to tech and Infestor broodlord, that would be a pretty decent change | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10132 Posts
On November 30 2012 23:49 ref4 wrote: all of this season's GSL semifinalists were eliminated yesterday HyuN by Creator Sniper by theSTC Ryung by Scarlett Bogus by Violet you were saying? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IGN_ProLeague_Season_5/Main_Event you were saying ? And to be honest, i am not even reading the past comments, since pretty sure most of it is balance whine, but alteast get your facts straight. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:12 Godwrath wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IGN_ProLeague_Season_5/Main_Event you were saying ? And to be honest, i am not even reading the past comments, since pretty sure most of it is balance whine, but alteast get your facts straight. Oops, I meant they were sent down to the shadow bracket. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
Everybody knows the issue is with Fungal Growth. 90% of the suggestions involve removing the root effect from the damn ability. Blizzards answer? "We don't think it would really solve much, so we're not even going to bother trying it out! Here, try -20hp on eggs instead. Oh, btw, make sure to play OUR balance suggestion lots (even though we won't consider yours), FOR THE GOOD OF THE GAME!" WTF? | ||
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Magnious
United States68 Posts
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TrippSC2
United States209 Posts
A popular suggestion has been increase the supply of Infestors or Brood Lords or both. I can understand the point, especially if you just consider those units in a vacuum outside the landscape of the entire race design. The problem is that the design of the race is that Infestors and Hive units are the only supply-efficient units that Zerg has for directly engaging. If that is disrupted, we lose the ability to have a scary late game army at all, which I would argue is necessary given that all of our units before late game have problems breaking defensive positions efficiently. I'm not saying that that approach is not a valid one, I'm just saying that it must be done very very carefully. There are a few things that I'd like to see tried. Lower max energy by 25 or 50 to reduce the ability to "bank" extra units for one massive engagement, but not taking it away. In particular, I think this is better than increasing energy cost, since it only affects the late game and doesn't affect our ability to handle styles that revolve around lots of direct engages to burn energy. Giving Ghosts, Mothership, and HTs Fungal Immunity (and possibly Mothership Neural Immunity). I feel like the approach initially could have been correct, but covered too many units. Again, this is really targeted at late game instead of affecting the mid game defense, which is somewhat fragile. General Carrier, BC, and/or Raven buffs. All are expensive in time and resources, but do start to tip the late game balance back into their races favor once successfully transitioned. The Raven is a quagmire to me, since you don't want to buff the 1-1-1, but they are very difficult to get in the mid game without losing them or without dying to a Zerg attack. It might be a good avenue to explore. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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Grim Hatter
Poland52 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:32 Magnious wrote: As a Zerg, I am in love with both of these changes! I would like to see more storms on infestor eggs, and they will absorb less tank shots from terran. You mean same number of tank shots. | ||
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