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Call to Action #2: November 30 Balance Testing - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
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bGr.MetHiX
Profile Joined February 2011
Bulgaria511 Posts
November 30 2012 11:16 GMT
#241
ETisMe did you read my post?

please do. and see the proposed changes.they in no way make voretx imba.because u counter vortex by spreading.
Top50 GM EU Protoss from Bulgaria. Streaming with commentary : www.twitch.tv/hwbgmethix
playnice
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia299 Posts
November 30 2012 11:17 GMT
#242
The IT eggs nerf will give players more incentive to target down the eggs before hatching, which is a good change.

I wish they would just start testing the Fungal projectile here. It can potentially add so much more depth to the instant root that we are seeing with every game involving Z, and it takes a lot of trials to get the projectile speed right if the change go through. So shouldn't they start early?

They should have foreseen that Fungal not affecting psionic units is too big of a change. Why not make it so that it doesn't affect massive units but still do damage? That way we would see more of Archons, Thors, and Battlecruisers against BL-Infestor-Corrupter composition.
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1338 Posts
November 30 2012 11:26 GMT
#243
On November 30 2012 20:17 playnice wrote:
The IT eggs nerf will give players more incentive to target down the eggs before hatching, which is a good change.

I wish they would just start testing the Fungal projectile here. It can potentially add so much more depth to the instant root that we are seeing with every game involving Z, and it takes a lot of trials to get the projectile speed right if the change go through. So shouldn't they start early?

They should have foreseen that Fungal not affecting psionic units is too big of a change. Why not make it so that it doesn't affect massive units but still do damage? That way we would see more of Archons, Thors, and Battlecruisers against BL-Infestor-Corrupter composition.


1. projectile = blinkstalker and marines get imba or if speed is too fast nothing changes. both units are already borderline OP vs zerg if microed well. just make fungal a slow that still prevents abilities.

2. fungal not hittig massive would be a nerf to the already very weak midgame zerg because colossus pushes or mech with mass thor pushes would be even harder to deal with and BL infestor wouldnt be affected since broodlings and mass IT stop archons and thors anyway.
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10126 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 11:28:49
November 30 2012 11:27 GMT
#244
They are testing stuff. Why is people so pissed when they are actually given the option to test by themselves and feedback blizzard. Isn't that what all of you had been bitching ?

And by the way 80 HPs mean a single storm will kill them. QQ moar.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10328 Posts
November 30 2012 11:29 GMT
#245
On November 30 2012 18:48 dde wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 11:29 SuperYo1000 wrote:
Global statistics don’t give us the impression that Zerg players have a general advantage, especially at the highest levels of play


In what universe are they getting there info from? At first I thought I must be taking crazy pills....Turns out...blizzard is sucking these down like candy


when terrans were doing well, they nerfed terran and said they cared balance for the lower tier users. This time they decide not to touch zerg and they say they care for the top tiers and they dont wanna touch as much because they "believe" the game is balanced for the top tier users. what a joke.


They will go back to their former philosophy of caring for lower tiers

and then people like you will criticize them of changing

Everyone has their own complaints, and it's impossible to satisfy all of them. I don't see how you can call them a joke for listening to feedback.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Laurens
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium4541 Posts
November 30 2012 11:30 GMT
#246
On November 30 2012 20:17 playnice wrote:
The IT eggs nerf will give players more incentive to target down the eggs before hatching, which is a good change.

I wish they would just start testing the Fungal projectile here. It can potentially add so much more depth to the instant root that we are seeing with every game involving Z, and it takes a lot of trials to get the projectile speed right if the change go through. So shouldn't they start early?

They should have foreseen that Fungal not affecting psionic units is too big of a change. Why not make it so that it doesn't affect massive units but still do damage? That way we would see more of Archons, Thors, and Battlecruisers against BL-Infestor-Corrupter composition.


You still wouldn't see BCs, fungal is not the problem there
Laurens
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium4541 Posts
November 30 2012 11:31 GMT
#247
On November 30 2012 20:27 Godwrath wrote:
They are testing stuff. Why is people so pissed when they are actually given the option to test by themselves and feedback blizzard. Isn't that what all of you had been bitching ?

And by the way 80 HPs mean a single storm will kill them. QQ moar.


nope, they heal, they will survive
Savant.GL
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany502 Posts
November 30 2012 11:36 GMT
#248
I think anyone who is quoting their own experiences as evidence is completely delusional.

Only pro play should be used as evidence for balance and it isn't a problem at the moment.
Terrans can beat zerg, look at GSL and IPL5
Savant
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1338 Posts
November 30 2012 11:38 GMT
#249
On November 30 2012 20:31 Laurens wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 20:27 Godwrath wrote:
They are testing stuff. Why is people so pissed when they are actually given the option to test by themselves and feedback blizzard. Isn't that what all of you had been bitching ?

And by the way 80 HPs mean a single storm will kill them. QQ moar.


nope, they heal, they will survive


since some people dont realize how huge this change is.

IT has 80hp + 1 or 2 hp regenerate during storm time. lets say it has 82hp and 10 armor (storm ignores armor).

so before it as 102hp minus the 80hp the storm got rid off: 22hp on the egg left.

now it is 82hp so 2hp on the egg left.

a stalker does 14 damage to armored minus the 10 armor of the egg so 4 damage.

previously: storm + 6 stalker shots needed to kill egg.

now: storm + 1 stalker shot needed to kill egg.

since your HT or colossus are never on their own the whole supporting army needs A LOT less shots to kill the rest hp on the eggs!! this is a huge nerf of IT eggs. (which is fine btw).

Nausea
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden807 Posts
November 30 2012 11:40 GMT
#250
I hear people saying that "this is a test, calm down". Well it´s not much of a test is it? It´s like trying to balance football by saying "we will add a bench behind the goal.", let´s see how that changes the game.
Set it ablaze!
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3679 Posts
November 30 2012 11:42 GMT
#251
LOL so fungal is fine in their opinion?
Ah well I guess the world is ending soon anyways..
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
November 30 2012 11:43 GMT
#252
On November 30 2012 20:38 Decendos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 20:31 Laurens wrote:
On November 30 2012 20:27 Godwrath wrote:
They are testing stuff. Why is people so pissed when they are actually given the option to test by themselves and feedback blizzard. Isn't that what all of you had been bitching ?

And by the way 80 HPs mean a single storm will kill them. QQ moar.


nope, they heal, they will survive


since some people dont realize how huge this change is.

IT has 80hp + 1 or 2 hp regenerate during storm time. lets say it has 82hp and 10 armor (storm ignores armor).

so before it as 102hp minus the 80hp the storm got rid off: 22hp on the egg left.

now it is 82hp so 2hp on the egg left.

a stalker does 14 damage to armored minus the 10 armor of the egg so 4 damage.

previously: storm + 6 stalker shots needed to kill egg.

now: storm + 1 stalker shot needed to kill egg.

since your HT or colossus are never on their own the whole supporting army needs A LOT less shots to kill the rest hp on the eggs!! this is a huge nerf of IT eggs. (which is fine btw).


That's IF the Protoss can get the storm off within 1s of the egg landing, which isn't likely to happen unless the Zerg is launching eggs into chain storms. It's definitely better than 100HP eggs, but still FAR from being ideal or considered "huge.;"
Babru
Profile Joined September 2010
196 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 11:52:35
November 30 2012 11:45 GMT
#253
On November 30 2012 12:35 artosismermaid wrote:
first diablo 3, then queen/overlord patch, now this?

blizzard has fallen from grace


The queen/overlord patch has seemingly resulted in, acording to blizzard, a more balanced game than before. I remember when everyone whined so hard on these changes, if you saw some of the recent interviews with blizz representatives you should know that they did mention the queen change and how it has turned out to be a good thing (Browder interview). Blizzard are completely unbiased in their balancing and usage of statistics, and no matter how balancing turns out there will always be a large amount of people who will excuse their lack of skills with balance whine. Like hypothetically, if blizzard would create a patch tomorrow where the game would be 100% balanced (like if you would let SC2 develop and get patched for another 100 years, and that you then take that patch and apply it today 2012, using a time machine), there would still be a good 20% or more of all active high level players (lower level players as well for that matter) who would cry really hard about the balance after this patch would have been in play for a year or so. Thats genuinely what i truly believe.

I do welcome some type of nerf to infestors, just as blizzard has planned. Queen range and overlord speed shall remain as it is.

Diablo 3 is crap indeed.
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 11:53:58
November 30 2012 11:47 GMT
#254
This is something very close to what I'd like to see. I dont mind a change to fungal, but a change to ITs was mucn more needed than fungal. Infestor should be something you have maybe 5 of or up to at most 10ish together with your army to assist with fungals. Right now you can make 30 without a problem because you'll end up with a new army of ITs at every battle, and with 20+ infestors its practically impossible to run them out of energy. A nerf to ITs should bring infestors back to where they should be, a support unit you dont wanna make too many of. As opposed to being impossible to overmake as they are now.

If people go back to using 5-10 infestors purely because of fungal and they still dominate every battle, look at fungal next. But quite frankly fungaling a group of marines or stalkers isnt more rediculous than blanketing a whole P army with EMP or watching 50 supply bio die to 2-3 storms. But ghosts and HTs are generally not good in numbers up to 30, which is what keeps them in check from being too OP, and which is what infestors need.

The one thing I think is that the IT nerf might be too small though and maybe eggs shouls be even weaker (or maybe up IT cost to 30 or 35?). But we'll see about that.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
November 30 2012 11:47 GMT
#255
Any Zerg with a brain won't tightly pack all of his Infested Terran Eggs to be neatly stormed (they heal through it anyways).

Notice how every Z player in here is adamant in suggesting how "big" of a nerf this is? It's because they're trying to hide the fact that a REAL change needs to take place.
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1338 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 11:52:07
November 30 2012 11:47 GMT
#256
On November 30 2012 20:43 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 20:38 Decendos wrote:
On November 30 2012 20:31 Laurens wrote:
On November 30 2012 20:27 Godwrath wrote:
They are testing stuff. Why is people so pissed when they are actually given the option to test by themselves and feedback blizzard. Isn't that what all of you had been bitching ?

And by the way 80 HPs mean a single storm will kill them. QQ moar.


nope, they heal, they will survive


since some people dont realize how huge this change is.

IT has 80hp + 1 or 2 hp regenerate during storm time. lets say it has 82hp and 10 armor (storm ignores armor).

so before it as 102hp minus the 80hp the storm got rid off: 22hp on the egg left.

now it is 82hp so 2hp on the egg left.

a stalker does 14 damage to armored minus the 10 armor of the egg so 4 damage.

previously: storm + 6 stalker shots needed to kill egg.

now: storm + 1 stalker shot needed to kill egg.

since your HT or colossus are never on their own the whole supporting army needs A LOT less shots to kill the rest hp on the eggs!! this is a huge nerf of IT eggs. (which is fine btw).


That's IF the Protoss can get the storm off within 1s of the egg landing, which isn't likely to happen unless the Zerg is launching eggs into chain storms. It's definitely better than 100HP eggs, but still FAR from being ideal or considered "huge.;"


it is huge. you need 83% less stalker hits to kill an egg.

and landing storms in time is more than viable. you will be with your army since zerg never wastes all his energy and then pulls away. so once he pulls down mass IT it will never be a mistake to instantly storm them after this nerf.

btw this is a test. if 80 hp is still too much they can make it 70 and then 60 if still too much. obviously they cant go down too far because then IT is useless so they do it in steps. everyone not realizing that should think before posting.
Qwerty85
Profile Joined June 2012
Croatia5536 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 11:55:39
November 30 2012 11:51 GMT
#257
This is a test, not final implementation of the changes. Blizzard should be more brave with this testing and either do a decent nerf to infestor spells or make infestors cost +1 supply.

They said in the past they like to slightly over-nerf the unit and they sure did it with ghosts. And they did it in actual patch. Again, since this is a test and not an actual balance patch, changes should be stronger than reducing the egg HP.

Infestors will still be massed, fungal and infested terrans will still work great against any unit in Starcraft, zerg will still have the ability to chain fungal to death, making 1 mistake from opponent a final mistake, or giving zerg additional 100 supply army through infested terrans.

The proposed balance change actually changes nothing.

Also this insisting on game being fine on highest levels is, if nothing else, really bad for game morale. If it is fine, why change anything at all? It sounds hypocritical and condescending.
MistSC2
Profile Joined February 2012
Sweden583 Posts
November 30 2012 11:51 GMT
#258
hmm i dont feel this will change too much at all, except storm 1 shots now..
Maru, TY, Clem <3
syriuszonito
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland332 Posts
November 30 2012 11:54 GMT
#259
On November 30 2012 20:47 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Any Zerg with a brain won't tightly pack all of his Infested Terran Eggs to be neatly stormed (they heal through it anyways).

Notice how every Z player in here is adamant in suggesting how "big" of a nerf this is? It's because they're trying to hide the fact that a REAL change needs to take place.


Wow great logic sir. How about: you noticed how every t and p player is suggesting that bigger nerf is needed? Its because they REALLY need to learn how to play.

On a serious note the suggested fungal nerf was absolutely bad and would ruin mid game zvp. The egg hp nerf on the other hand is not enough imho, maybe they should try something like 80% movement slow for fungal?
The one || My stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/syriuszonito
Zannadar
Profile Joined March 2011
Turkey294 Posts
November 30 2012 11:54 GMT
#260
On November 30 2012 20:38 Decendos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 20:31 Laurens wrote:
On November 30 2012 20:27 Godwrath wrote:
They are testing stuff. Why is people so pissed when they are actually given the option to test by themselves and feedback blizzard. Isn't that what all of you had been bitching ?

And by the way 80 HPs mean a single storm will kill them. QQ moar.


nope, they heal, they will survive


since some people dont realize how huge this change is.

IT has 80hp + 1 or 2 hp regenerate during storm time. lets say it has 82hp and 10 armor (storm ignores armor).

so before it as 102hp minus the 80hp the storm got rid off: 22hp on the egg left.

now it is 82hp so 2hp on the egg left.

a stalker does 14 damage to armored minus the 10 armor of the egg so 4 damage.

previously: storm + 6 stalker shots needed to kill egg.

now: storm + 1 stalker shot needed to kill egg.

since your HT or colossus are never on their own the whole supporting army needs A LOT less shots to kill the rest hp on the eggs!! this is a huge nerf of IT eggs. (which is fine btw).



So you want your stalkers to target eggs rather than roaches, infestors and brood lords, right? Please let me know how that works out.
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