Call to Action: Balance Testing (2012/11/20) - Page 71

On November 24 2012 00:40 Naphal wrote:
the nerf is by no means big enough to warrant immediate compensation, at least in ZvT, i agree that ZvP may be a different story (because "psionic" protoss units are not exactly rare)

so keep that in mind before terran also loses all hope between early and lategame if you give Z a stronger midgame.

On November 24 2012 00:29 Ramiz1989 wrote:

Except the Infestors and Ravens, they probably won't change anything in WoL buddy.

On November 24 2012 01:05 Charon1979 wrote:
Problem: Infestor too stronk, Zerg Deathball the same every Match and thus boring

Solution: Play Terran where you can go Marine/Tank/Medivac at all game stages since beta, which never will be boring because its Marines + Support

-or

Solution: Play Protoss where you can go Zealot/Stalker/Colossus since beta, wich never will be boring because its colossi + Meatshield

On November 24 2012 04:29 PhReNeTik wrote:
BL+infestor is the consecuence of a bad metagame: 3CC and 3rd nexus first. That's all.

U can't stop them.... then attack before 10 minutes mark and u'll never see BL.

On November 24 2012 04:29 PhReNeTik wrote:
BL+infestor is the consecuence of a bad metagame: 3CC and 3rd nexus first. That's all.

U can't stop them.... then attack before 10 minutes mark and u'll never see BL.

On November 24 2012 04:29 PhReNeTik wrote:
BL+infestor is the consecuence of a bad metagame: 3CC and 3rd nexus first. That's all.

U can't stop them.... then attack before 10 minutes mark and u'll never see BL.

On November 24 2012 04:34 Shiori wrote:

We like to call this "all-in every game."

On November 24 2012 04:42 MisterTea wrote:

is attacking before every base is mined out considered an all in aswell?

On November 24 2012 01:05 Charon1979 wrote:
Problem: Infestor too stronk, Zerg Deathball the same every Match and thus boring

Solution: Play Terran where you can go Marine/Tank/Medivac at all game stages since beta, which never will be boring because its Marines + Support

-or

Solution: Play Protoss where you can go Zealot/Stalker/Colossus since beta, wich never will be boring because its colossi + Meatshield

On November 24 2012 04:58 The_Darkness wrote:
I generally like these changes. A few thoughts:

- The fact you can't fungal warp prisms feels weird although I'm not sure it's a problem. I can't imagine the best zerg players in the world really struggling against DT drops; with lots of spores and spines at each expansion (which is already the norm) quite often what happens is that even if a hatchery gets sniped it's not cost effective in terms of what's destoryed and the zerg player can just rebuild the hatchery; all that a hatchery snipe accomplishes is a marginal reduction in the size of the zerg's bank.

- I would have like to have seen infested terrans nerfed. Perhaps the HP of the eggs should be as it is in HoTS (50 instead of 100). Buffing ghosts and HT though indirectly combats this problems since T and P will have a way to actually lower infestors' energy.

- I think lowering the cost of HSM to 100 might have been a bigger buff and really changed the entire dynamic of tvz late game. I like the change, which will make transititioning to ravens easier. It will be really cool, if these changes are implemented, to see ghosts and ravens actually used in TVZ. The TvZ late game seems boring and feels unfair to Terran. These changes definitely will help.

On November 24 2012 04:47 c0sm0naut wrote:
Ive played around 20 games as every race option so far in the test map, (vs master / gm and sometimes random if i didnt have players to play with), i am master and random in NA

so far these are my conclusions:

tvz: exactly the same pretty much

tvp: i want to say it's the same but, i think this change has potential. theorcrafting, if you already make ghosts on 3 -4 base vs protoss why not make ravens earlier. if you can EMP all of the templar, HSM kills everything. marines cost only minerals and instead of making double medivacs all game from 9:30 until we die why not try raven? so far it has been unsuccessful but i am chobo

tvt: exactly the same, i got to use HSM at like 9 or 10 min game clock on a drop though which was weird and awkward for both of us

zvt: feels pretty much the same.. i dont feel more scared of raven or ghost, i like mutalisks in the midgame too anyways, so by the time he has enough of these units out he has taken so much damage trying to go for them that it is often faceroll + rally time. there doesn't seem to be a good time to build ghosts in tvz right now, from 1:00-10:00 you are getting up your 3 bases and harassing with hellion banshee, from 10:00 - 14:00 you are bunkering up and waiting for a bigger tank count + 2/2 so you can go push him, from 14:00-18:00 you are defending a hive tech counter and taking a 4th, when do you start ghosts? it seems like if you cut units from any point in here zerg will know and kill your or you will be unable to punish zerg taking a lot of bases.

zvp: not the same, warp prisms are way stronger if the user has high APM. queens are so fucking slow i cannot explain how frustrating this change is. this change need sot be reverted or thought out in a better way, because currently i am still fungaling the shit out of protoss armies and getting like 8 stalkers at a time and meanwhile cannot defend against warp prisms.. all of the stupid crap about fungal still is here but now warp prism is a bit better and zerg can no longer make miraculous comebacks by landing chain fungals on the sentryball. warp prism + DT harass is extremely strong now in the lategame although when i really think about it, i should have just made to kill it. even after all of this, i still am winning if i sit there over my 4th base, suck all the resources out of it and then slowly take more and more bases with broodlord support, adding to my deathball. you still can take zero risks with a BL/INF/Corruptor army and just harvest one base at a time, maybe doing some ling harass and stuff, but ultimately infestors are still serving pretty much all roles you need them to in this MU. archons, templar and sentries aren't going to be blinking in and sniping my broods any time soon, but stalkers, voids and carriers might try and fungal + IT still manhandles all of these things

zvz: still retarded, it was weird tnot being able to fungal my opponent's infestors if they clump them, but i rarely get that opportunity vs decent players anyways so i wont miss it too much

conclusion: FG change is big in pvz for harass, but deathballing is still viable and pretty much still the best way to play against protoss. fungal still locks stalkers, zealot clumps, air units, and IT are still extremely durable in shell form and have broken DPS, warp prisms are potentially "broken" now but to be honest if they want to even out the brokenness of infestor broodlord with this it's not a bad choice.

Terran HSM change is stupid, lol. i dont understand this change, it seems more aimed at casual players rather than GM or professional players because HSM range is very low.. HSM still waste of money unless you are on like 3 more bases than your opponent and dont want to even have a chance of losing. even then, more tanks marines and marauders are generally better. zerg still has many opportunities to get extremely far ahead in early ZvT with speedling builds or with just defending a marine poke out or timing well and droning behind it. late game, ghosts still dont seem like a viable option and neither I nor my opponents felt that we had the time to make them in our games because we would die if we did. Fungal continues to affect groups of marines, vikings and tanks and serves the role it did in the past.

On November 24 2012 04:47 c0sm0naut wrote:
conclusion: FG change is big in pvz for harass, but deathballing is still viable and pretty much still the best way to play against protoss. fungal still locks stalkers, zealot clumps, air units, and IT are still extremely durable in shell form and have broken DPS, warp prisms are potentially "broken" now but to be honest if they want to even out the brokenness of infestor broodlord with this it's not a bad choice.