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It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill.
Look at this:
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue.
If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win"
I like the way the changes will affect the game. more harrasment and stuff from toss should make it more interesting and fun. But if the balance is 50/50 now, then surely there will be a problem after this patch? Nerfing the infestor is probably good for the game in the long run but give zerg something in return, give us a lategame army that's mobile but can also fight with the toss deathball at least reasonably cost-effectively. Buff the Ultralisk or something.
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Anything to make more people realize how damned good the raven is makes me happy
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On November 21 2012 11:21 Zoku wrote:
What exactly is the point of making psionic units immune to fungal. HT's and ghosts still can't get close enough to to feedback/emp infestors because of broodlords. All they've done it make midgame protoss stronger, while leave lategame zerg as still an issue. Seriously, do these guys even play or watch the game?
this answers your question "Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents."
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On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill. Look at this: Show nested quote +
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we?re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there?s a large problem here, but we do agree that it?s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue. If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win" I like the way the changes will affect the game. more harrasment and stuff from toss should make it more interesting and fun. But if the balance is 50/50 now, then surely there will be a problem after this patch? Nerfing the infestor is probably good for the game in the long run but give zerg something in return, give us a lategame army that's mobile but can also fight with the toss deathball at least reasonably cost-effectively. Buff the Ultralisk or something.
oooh yes. buffing ultra would be soooo awesome for ZvP !
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I really like the raven change, but the infestor change, I'm unsure of that. Good as Terran though. =)
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On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill. Look at this: Show nested quote +
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue. If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win" I like the way the changes will affect the game. more harrasment and stuff from toss should make it more interesting and fun. But if the balance is 50/50 now, then surely there will be a problem after this patch? Nerfing the infestor is probably good for the game in the long run but give zerg something in return, give us a lategame army that's mobile but can also fight with the toss deathball at least reasonably cost-effectively. Buff the Ultralisk or something.
I agree. I like how these changes open up possibilities and make games less monotonous, but I think they should have included some buff to hydras and/or ultras to allow for different zerg strategies as well. I guess they are waiting till HotS for those, but their changes will be met with a lot of resistance if they do not address zergs' qualms about balance being thrown out of wack.
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"Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues."
I didnt read further.
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On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill. Look at this: Show nested quote +
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue. If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win" I like the way the changes will affect the game. more harrasment and stuff from toss should make it more interesting and fun. But if the balance is 50/50 now, then surely there will be a problem after this patch? Nerfing the infestor is probably good for the game in the long run but give zerg something in return, give us a lategame army that's mobile but can also fight with the toss deathball at least reasonably cost-effectively. Buff the Ultralisk or something.
No one has the mindset that Zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain, you're creating that delusion in order to justify whatever victimization you're feeling right now.
People are pissed at Zerg winning because of the WAY they are winning right now. No one was whining when DRG was winning tournaments using beautiful control, aggression, multi-pronged attacking while maintaining absolutely perfect mechanics back home.
Everyone loved watching Nestea win with just beautiful lair based timing attacks and aggression.
No one enjoys watching Infestor/Broodlord game after game after game after game after game.
No one.
That's why people want the Infestor nerfed. It's not just causing Zergs to win, it's causing them to win in a very boring and frustrating way.
Does that open the door to buff other Zerg tech options? Perhaps it does, that remains to be seen. What we do all agree on is that that unit comp is broken and the Infestor is the reason why.
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Austria24417 Posts
On November 22 2012 01:17 Fig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill. Look at this:
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue. If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win" I like the way the changes will affect the game. more harrasment and stuff from toss should make it more interesting and fun. But if the balance is 50/50 now, then surely there will be a problem after this patch? Nerfing the infestor is probably good for the game in the long run but give zerg something in return, give us a lategame army that's mobile but can also fight with the toss deathball at least reasonably cost-effectively. Buff the Ultralisk or something. I agree. I like how these changes open up possibilities and make games less monotonous, but I think they should have included some buff to hydras and/or ultras to allow for different zerg strategies as well. I guess they are waiting till HotS for those, but their changes will be met with a lot of resistance if they do not address zergs' qualms about balance being thrown out of wack.
I agree, a hydra buff would be a great next step to address the midgame weakness of zerg. But I do think that this change (or something else) needs to happen first.
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On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill. Look at this: Show nested quote +
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue. If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win" I like the way the changes will affect the game. more harrasment and stuff from toss should make it more interesting and fun. But if the balance is 50/50 now, then surely there will be a problem after this patch? Nerfing the infestor is probably good for the game in the long run but give zerg something in return, give us a lategame army that's mobile but can also fight with the toss deathball at least reasonably cost-effectively. Buff the Ultralisk or something.
Sentries are not used in the protoss end game army vs zerg and are generally bad if they. The only two psionic units that are used are HTs and archons. HTs are stills as slow as thors and get their face rocked by broodlings. Archons will likely get more hits in, but they are still attacking broodlings and infested terrans, which is still a bad trade for 300 gas. Zerg should be able to do plenty of damage with BL/infestor, but they will not able to lock down every single protoss unit in the army.
Its not like the patch notes said Psionic units are now immune to fungle and infested terrans. Infestors can still spit out free supply ranged units that scale with upgrades.
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On November 22 2012 01:19 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 01:17 Fig wrote:On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill. Look at this:
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue. If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win" I like the way the changes will affect the game. more harrasment and stuff from toss should make it more interesting and fun. But if the balance is 50/50 now, then surely there will be a problem after this patch? Nerfing the infestor is probably good for the game in the long run but give zerg something in return, give us a lategame army that's mobile but can also fight with the toss deathball at least reasonably cost-effectively. Buff the Ultralisk or something. I agree. I like how these changes open up possibilities and make games less monotonous, but I think they should have included some buff to hydras and/or ultras to allow for different zerg strategies as well. I guess they are waiting till HotS for those, but their changes will be met with a lot of resistance if they do not address zergs' qualms about balance being thrown out of wack. I agree, a hydra buff would be a great next step to address the midgame weakness of zerg. But I do think that this change (or something else) needs to happen first.
I disagree. 2 reasons:
1. Everyone makes colossi, so hydras will be auto countered.
2. Zerg is still good at mid game (12 min stephano?). Yes, it's possible to counter, but... it's a strong timing nevertheless.
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On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:
Buff the Ultralisk or something.
No thanks, Ultralisks are already strong enough in ZvT. The only Zerg unit which needs something is the Hydralisk.
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On November 22 2012 01:19 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill. Look at this:
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue. If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win" I like the way the changes will affect the game. more harrasment and stuff from toss should make it more interesting and fun. But if the balance is 50/50 now, then surely there will be a problem after this patch? Nerfing the infestor is probably good for the game in the long run but give zerg something in return, give us a lategame army that's mobile but can also fight with the toss deathball at least reasonably cost-effectively. Buff the Ultralisk or something. No one has the mindset that Zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain, you're creating that delusion in order to justify whatever victimization you're feeling right now. People are pissed at Zerg winning because of the WAY they are winning right now. No one was whining when DRG was winning tournaments using beautiful control, aggression, multi-pronged attacking while maintaining absolutely perfect mechanics back home. Everyone loved watching Nestea win with just beautiful lair based timing attacks and aggression. No one enjoys watching Infestor/Broodlord game after game after game after game after game. No one. That's why people want the Infestor nerfed. It's not just causing Zergs to win, it's causing them to win in a very boring and frustrating way. Does that open the door to buff other Zerg tech options? Perhaps it does, that remains to be seen. What we do all agree on is that that unit comp is broken and the Infestor is the reason why.
Please don't pretend like zergs have plenty of options of winning in another fashion. In other to attack into a turtling opponent, zerg needs hive-tech. The zerg siege-unit is the BL and attacking without it into a line of tanks is suicide (that leaves roach-bling all-ins and perhaps a 2-2 timing, yay!).
How well is DRGs 'beautiful' play doing these days?
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On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill. Look at this: Show nested quote +
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue. If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win"
I think the real issue is that the game is becoming far too stale. Maybe the win rates are close to 50% globally, but what's the point if half the games Zerg just turtles for 14 minutes on huge maps and then insta-win with infestor broodlord every time and the other half Protoss does a 2 base sentry-immortal all-in on medium/small maps every time?
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On November 22 2012 01:19 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill. Look at this:
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue. If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win" I like the way the changes will affect the game. more harrasment and stuff from toss should make it more interesting and fun. But if the balance is 50/50 now, then surely there will be a problem after this patch? Nerfing the infestor is probably good for the game in the long run but give zerg something in return, give us a lategame army that's mobile but can also fight with the toss deathball at least reasonably cost-effectively. Buff the Ultralisk or something. No one has the mindset that Zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain, you're creating that delusion in order to justify whatever victimization you're feeling right now. People are pissed at Zerg winning because of the WAY they are winning right now. No one was whining when DRG was winning tournaments using beautiful control, aggression, multi-pronged attacking while maintaining absolutely perfect mechanics back home. Everyone loved watching Nestea win with just beautiful lair based timing attacks and aggression. No one enjoys watching Infestor/Broodlord game after game after game after game after game. No one. That's why people want the Infestor nerfed. It's not just causing Zergs to win, it's causing them to win in a very boring and frustrating way. Does that open the door to buff other Zerg tech options? Perhaps it does, that remains to be seen. What we do all agree on is that that unit comp is broken and the Infestor is the reason why.
Exactly.
Amazing Z wins used to be a cultimation of insane aggression, being all over the map, crazy macro, and greedy play all at the same time.
And still tho, how are you surprised that people get mad when Z wins a tournament? Not only is the above guy right, but at the same time, go on liquipedia and just look at the top 16 results of all tournaments since May. Z is everywhere, absolutely everywhere. So yea, people would like a little more balance in the top 16's of tournaments so we dont get to watch infestor/BL for 8 hours in a row...
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On November 22 2012 01:26 TheDwf wrote:No thanks, Ultralisks are already strong enough in ZvT. The only Zerg unit which needs something is the Hydralisk.
Ultra strong in ZvT ? it was considered ultraloose for a long time. Without infestors they are weak, and agaisnt mech they suck. They obviously need a buff (like their size reduced)
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On November 22 2012 01:26 darkness wrote:
1. Everyone makes colossi, so hydras will be auto countered.
2. Zerg is still good at mid game (12 min stephano?). Yes, it's possible to counter, but... it's a strong timing nevertheless.
If Hydra had a higher speed, they wouldnt be so hard countered by Colossus
The 12min roach all-in got figured out 6 months ago, even Stephano barely use it anymore himself
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I had to vote down the psionic changes to the infestor on the single fact that it means that fungal no longer affects Dark templars and archons.
The fungal on dts is one of our biggest oh shit its cloaked spells because if you're caught with your pants down an overseer just takes way to long to morph in before 2-3 dts snipe a hatchery. Or just having a few dts pre festor/bl fights that focus purely on the infestor. While overall i am fine with this (i always make overseers anyways  ) I just feel as though fungals on dts are important.
This will also mean i'm going to have to start making overseers in every MU if terrans start making ghosts again lol. (which overall i am fine with, brings out better gameplay and skill imo)
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On November 22 2012 01:26 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 01:19 DarkLordOlli wrote:On November 22 2012 01:17 Fig wrote:On November 22 2012 01:05 Zrana wrote:It's weird how everyone seems to have this mindset that zerg has to be on the bottom of the food chain compared to other races. No-one minds when a terran or protoss wins a major tournament, but when a zerg wins it must be OP...? Zerg isn't just in the game to make loads of units for you to kill. Look at this:
We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.
They basically say that people are whining but there's no balance issue. If it goes through they might as well write "fixed a bug where zerg can sometimes win" I like the way the changes will affect the game. more harrasment and stuff from toss should make it more interesting and fun. But if the balance is 50/50 now, then surely there will be a problem after this patch? Nerfing the infestor is probably good for the game in the long run but give zerg something in return, give us a lategame army that's mobile but can also fight with the toss deathball at least reasonably cost-effectively. Buff the Ultralisk or something. I agree. I like how these changes open up possibilities and make games less monotonous, but I think they should have included some buff to hydras and/or ultras to allow for different zerg strategies as well. I guess they are waiting till HotS for those, but their changes will be met with a lot of resistance if they do not address zergs' qualms about balance being thrown out of wack. I agree, a hydra buff would be a great next step to address the midgame weakness of zerg. But I do think that this change (or something else) needs to happen first. I disagree. 2 reasons: 1. Everyone makes colossi, so hydras will be auto countered. 2. Zerg is still good at mid game (12 min stephano?). Yes, it's possible to counter, but... it's a strong timing nevertheless.
2. That is not midgame, that is an allin.
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EPT
