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Warp prisms immunes to fungal? Oh dear
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That nerf to infestor is overdoing it. Imo it makes infestor not viable tech on 2 bases because it would fail against all pushes having sentries. Also it breaks ZvZ with infestors being immune to fungal
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So just in case anyone is curious, after Starport tech lab finishes:
~2:13 - +1 Seeker Missile
~2:28 - +1 Seeker Missile (if Corvid Reactor started right when tech lab finishes)
Edit: That is assuming you have stupid amounts of gas
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On November 21 2012 23:32 Shiori wrote:
Change is good. Warp Prisms being immune to Fungal is a good thing because it means that Infestor/BL's innate weakness (immobility) can actually be feasibly exploited. There shouldn't BE a god composition that just crushes everything, and now even Infestor/BL will have one big thing to worry about: Warp Prism harassment that isn't easily deflectable. This means that you can't slow push across the map oblivious to any harassment. This is a good thing. It means that Protoss can force the Zerg player to delay their push until the Warp Prism harassment has been dealt with. It means that Zerg can't just go 30 Infestor and 20 Broods and be safe against everything. It means that they need to invest in more static defense. These are all good things because they open up viable options against the Infestor/BL composition.
People who are arguing that it will be "impossible" to deal with WPs now are hilarious. You can deal with them the same way everyone else deals with doom drops: by pulling back. If the Protoss player has 2 Prisms, each with 10 warpins, then he's devoting a hell of a lot of supply to those drops. You better have to actually pull back to defend them. 2 or 3 Infestors should not nullify any and all harassment of undefended bases. You should need to actually, you know, make combat units and static defense to do that like everyone else generally does.
I'm indifferent to the Sentry-immunity. It seems unnecessary, but I don't think it will matter much since Sentries are pretty bad lategame and because holding Immortal/Sentry has more to do with baiting out FFs than with blindly going Infestors (unless you're Suppy). As for the rest, I'm hoping it makes lategame PvZ a little more even. Kinda disappointed that Blizzard didn't give a correspondingly large buff to Terrans, though. The HSM buff is near-enough useless.
So, the changes forces zergs into even heavier turtling. How is that good for the game again?
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I feel like Blizzard is making things rather complicated with this change.
It all feels somewhat wanky.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On November 21 2012 23:35 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 23:35 coko wrote:
Unsure if this hasn't been mentioned but the biggest thing in my opinion from the warp prism and HT being immune to fungal is reaver style play against zerg.
This is micro intensive, dropping high templar, storming or feedbacking all those infestors and if possible leaping back into the warp prism immediately Which is awesome.
It is indeed.
On November 21 2012 23:36 iHirO wrote:
Would DT/Pheonix be a decent build now in PvZ? Seeing as the Zerg's only mobile detection is the Overseer.
It could be viable midgame and it's super cool. Infestors would still be strong against it by fungaling phoenixes but it sure as hell would be a strong map-control based composition as DT/Corsair was in BW.
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On November 21 2012 23:37 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 23:32 Shiori wrote:
Change is good. Warp Prisms being immune to Fungal is a good thing because it means that Infestor/BL's innate weakness (immobility) can actually be feasibly exploited. There shouldn't BE a god composition that just crushes everything, and now even Infestor/BL will have one big thing to worry about: Warp Prism harassment that isn't easily deflectable. This means that you can't slow push across the map oblivious to any harassment. This is a good thing. It means that Protoss can force the Zerg player to delay their push until the Warp Prism harassment has been dealt with. It means that Zerg can't just go 30 Infestor and 20 Broods and be safe against everything. It means that they need to invest in more static defense. These are all good things because they open up viable options against the Infestor/BL composition.
People who are arguing that it will be "impossible" to deal with WPs now are hilarious. You can deal with them the same way everyone else deals with doom drops: by pulling back. If the Protoss player has 2 Prisms, each with 10 warpins, then he's devoting a hell of a lot of supply to those drops. You better have to actually pull back to defend them. 2 or 3 Infestors should not nullify any and all harassment of undefended bases. You should need to actually, you know, make combat units and static defense to do that like everyone else generally does.
I'm indifferent to the Sentry-immunity. It seems unnecessary, but I don't think it will matter much since Sentries are pretty bad lategame and because holding Immortal/Sentry has more to do with baiting out FFs than with blindly going Infestors (unless you're Suppy). As for the rest, I'm hoping it makes lategame PvZ a little more even. Kinda disappointed that Blizzard didn't give a correspondingly large buff to Terrans, though. The HSM buff is near-enough useless. So, the changes forces zergs into even heavier turtling. How is that good for the game again?
Exactly.
Now zergs will just keep pumping out more static defense and do the boring slow push.
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On November 21 2012 23:27 Corvi wrote:
on a sidenote: this kills mech in highlevel tvz because ghosts are now too important to miss and pretty much need the bio infrastructure and upgrades. makes me very sad.
so I need the +3 armor upgrade to snipe infestors? didn't know that.
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
Warp prisms being immune to fungal is AWESOME!
It means you could even feasably doom drop ON TOP of Infestor clumps. Either that or you can actually get around the map as protoss in a way that doesn't leave you completely open. That's a perfect, perfect change.
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On November 21 2012 23:02 DurandaL917 wrote:
Sorry to deviate the conversation away from fungals for a moment, but does this change to the seeker missile make it suddenly a favored option for harassing mineral lines considering the splash damage?
Absolutely not.
HSM is generally terrible at worker harass and you will usually only get 2-3 worker kills at best with a single HSM (for 125 energy that's very bad).
As far as worker harass is concerned you're better off throwing down 2 auto turrets (which is less energy anyway) and flying out. Even if the turrets don't kill workers due to reaction they will delay mining (usually quite a bit at undefended bases).
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On November 21 2012 23:40 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 23:27 Corvi wrote:
on a sidenote: this kills mech in highlevel tvz because ghosts are now too important to miss and pretty much need the bio infrastructure and upgrades. makes me very sad. so I need the +3 armor upgrade to snipe infestors? didn't know that.
0/0 ghosts will get shredded by 3/3 broodlings
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On November 21 2012 23:37 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 23:32 Shiori wrote:
Change is good. Warp Prisms being immune to Fungal is a good thing because it means that Infestor/BL's innate weakness (immobility) can actually be feasibly exploited. There shouldn't BE a god composition that just crushes everything, and now even Infestor/BL will have one big thing to worry about: Warp Prism harassment that isn't easily deflectable. This means that you can't slow push across the map oblivious to any harassment. This is a good thing. It means that Protoss can force the Zerg player to delay their push until the Warp Prism harassment has been dealt with. It means that Zerg can't just go 30 Infestor and 20 Broods and be safe against everything. It means that they need to invest in more static defense. These are all good things because they open up viable options against the Infestor/BL composition.
People who are arguing that it will be "impossible" to deal with WPs now are hilarious. You can deal with them the same way everyone else deals with doom drops: by pulling back. If the Protoss player has 2 Prisms, each with 10 warpins, then he's devoting a hell of a lot of supply to those drops. You better have to actually pull back to defend them. 2 or 3 Infestors should not nullify any and all harassment of undefended bases. You should need to actually, you know, make combat units and static defense to do that like everyone else generally does.
I'm indifferent to the Sentry-immunity. It seems unnecessary, but I don't think it will matter much since Sentries are pretty bad lategame and because holding Immortal/Sentry has more to do with baiting out FFs than with blindly going Infestors (unless you're Suppy). As for the rest, I'm hoping it makes lategame PvZ a little more even. Kinda disappointed that Blizzard didn't give a correspondingly large buff to Terrans, though. The HSM buff is near-enough useless. So, the changes forces zergs into even heavier turtling. How is that good for the game again?
Because now Protoss will actually have time to make an air transition and have a strong enough army (with unfungleable temps) to actually have a real chance at winning an engagement. Turtling still sucks, but at least turtling isn't as massively Z favoured anymore.
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This change is in test map. Go play it and give real feedback. Don't just fucking whine about everthing. I am terran but i am curious why DT can't be fungaled is that bad. Can't zerg just build 1 spore each base then have 1 overseer with their army? I could be wrong though.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On November 21 2012 23:40 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 23:37 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 23:32 Shiori wrote:
Change is good. Warp Prisms being immune to Fungal is a good thing because it means that Infestor/BL's innate weakness (immobility) can actually be feasibly exploited. There shouldn't BE a god composition that just crushes everything, and now even Infestor/BL will have one big thing to worry about: Warp Prism harassment that isn't easily deflectable. This means that you can't slow push across the map oblivious to any harassment. This is a good thing. It means that Protoss can force the Zerg player to delay their push until the Warp Prism harassment has been dealt with. It means that Zerg can't just go 30 Infestor and 20 Broods and be safe against everything. It means that they need to invest in more static defense. These are all good things because they open up viable options against the Infestor/BL composition.
People who are arguing that it will be "impossible" to deal with WPs now are hilarious. You can deal with them the same way everyone else deals with doom drops: by pulling back. If the Protoss player has 2 Prisms, each with 10 warpins, then he's devoting a hell of a lot of supply to those drops. You better have to actually pull back to defend them. 2 or 3 Infestors should not nullify any and all harassment of undefended bases. You should need to actually, you know, make combat units and static defense to do that like everyone else generally does.
I'm indifferent to the Sentry-immunity. It seems unnecessary, but I don't think it will matter much since Sentries are pretty bad lategame and because holding Immortal/Sentry has more to do with baiting out FFs than with blindly going Infestors (unless you're Suppy). As for the rest, I'm hoping it makes lategame PvZ a little more even. Kinda disappointed that Blizzard didn't give a correspondingly large buff to Terrans, though. The HSM buff is near-enough useless. So, the changes forces zergs into even heavier turtling. How is that good for the game again? Exactly. Now zergs will just keep pumping out more static defense and do the boring slow push.
Except now they'll lose if they've taken enormous harrassment damage before - as they should.
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No slow of air units, instead of the projectile thing? What you guys think?
Poll: Add no slow on air units instead of projectile fungalNo, no air root AND projectile (7) 100% Yes, but then projectile fungsl not implemented (0) 0% No, air root is too vital (0) 0% 7 total votes Your vote: Add no slow on air units instead of projectile fungal (Vote): Yes, but then projectile fungsl not implemented
(Vote): No, no air root AND projectile
(Vote): No, air root is too vital
give a reason too
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On November 21 2012 23:37 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 23:32 Shiori wrote:
Change is good. Warp Prisms being immune to Fungal is a good thing because it means that Infestor/BL's innate weakness (immobility) can actually be feasibly exploited. There shouldn't BE a god composition that just crushes everything, and now even Infestor/BL will have one big thing to worry about: Warp Prism harassment that isn't easily deflectable. This means that you can't slow push across the map oblivious to any harassment. This is a good thing. It means that Protoss can force the Zerg player to delay their push until the Warp Prism harassment has been dealt with. It means that Zerg can't just go 30 Infestor and 20 Broods and be safe against everything. It means that they need to invest in more static defense. These are all good things because they open up viable options against the Infestor/BL composition.
People who are arguing that it will be "impossible" to deal with WPs now are hilarious. You can deal with them the same way everyone else deals with doom drops: by pulling back. If the Protoss player has 2 Prisms, each with 10 warpins, then he's devoting a hell of a lot of supply to those drops. You better have to actually pull back to defend them. 2 or 3 Infestors should not nullify any and all harassment of undefended bases. You should need to actually, you know, make combat units and static defense to do that like everyone else generally does.
I'm indifferent to the Sentry-immunity. It seems unnecessary, but I don't think it will matter much since Sentries are pretty bad lategame and because holding Immortal/Sentry has more to do with baiting out FFs than with blindly going Infestors (unless you're Suppy). As for the rest, I'm hoping it makes lategame PvZ a little more even. Kinda disappointed that Blizzard didn't give a correspondingly large buff to Terrans, though. The HSM buff is near-enough useless. So, the changes forces zergs into even heavier turtling. How is that good for the game again?
It doesn’t lead to turtling, it leads to more protoss harass and pushing more multi tasking on the zerg. It allows the protoss to create situations where they can make efficient trades and cut into the zerg economy. Then when they confront the super army, the zerg cannot instant replace it due to a massive, unstoppable bank of funds.
Somewhere out there, LiquidHero eyes are filled with wonder.
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i'd like to see some games from pros with this patch in ZvP. Especially some games from stephano. Because it look likes the turtle metagame won't be viable anymore.
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Been playing this extensively all day so far and here are my thoughts:
It makes warp prism harass incredible in the mid game. You can start using Broodwar esque strategy like someone mentionned earlier mimicing reaver play which is very very awesome I think.
In both TvZ and PvZ, if the zerg takes huge economic damage and / or loses bases, the option to spend all money on infestors and pray is no longer an option. They are still great units, but you just can't roll the dice to win a pretty much lost game with them as much as you could previously.
Heat seaking missile shut down my brood lord corruptor infestor composition pretty well in 2 straight late game scenarios. I cant help but feel this might be too much of a buff, as he moved out with a 140 supply air terran / mech mix and beat my 200/200 +3 tier upgraded army with relative ease.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On November 21 2012 23:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 23:37 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 23:32 Shiori wrote:
Change is good. Warp Prisms being immune to Fungal is a good thing because it means that Infestor/BL's innate weakness (immobility) can actually be feasibly exploited. There shouldn't BE a god composition that just crushes everything, and now even Infestor/BL will have one big thing to worry about: Warp Prism harassment that isn't easily deflectable. This means that you can't slow push across the map oblivious to any harassment. This is a good thing. It means that Protoss can force the Zerg player to delay their push until the Warp Prism harassment has been dealt with. It means that Zerg can't just go 30 Infestor and 20 Broods and be safe against everything. It means that they need to invest in more static defense. These are all good things because they open up viable options against the Infestor/BL composition.
People who are arguing that it will be "impossible" to deal with WPs now are hilarious. You can deal with them the same way everyone else deals with doom drops: by pulling back. If the Protoss player has 2 Prisms, each with 10 warpins, then he's devoting a hell of a lot of supply to those drops. You better have to actually pull back to defend them. 2 or 3 Infestors should not nullify any and all harassment of undefended bases. You should need to actually, you know, make combat units and static defense to do that like everyone else generally does.
I'm indifferent to the Sentry-immunity. It seems unnecessary, but I don't think it will matter much since Sentries are pretty bad lategame and because holding Immortal/Sentry has more to do with baiting out FFs than with blindly going Infestors (unless you're Suppy). As for the rest, I'm hoping it makes lategame PvZ a little more even. Kinda disappointed that Blizzard didn't give a correspondingly large buff to Terrans, though. The HSM buff is near-enough useless. So, the changes forces zergs into even heavier turtling. How is that good for the game again? It doesn’t lead to turtling, it leads to more protoss harass and pushing more multi tasking on the zerg. It allows the protoss to create situations where they can make efficient trades and cut into the zerg economy. Then when they confront the super army, the zerg cannot instant replace it due to a massive, unstoppable bank of funds. Somewhere out there, LiquidHero eyes are filled with wonder.
And so are mine. It's a huge step in the right direction.
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Cant just people who post in this thread have some real feedback from the map instead of theorycrafting 101?
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EPT
