EPTA fundamental issue about forcefield - Page 22
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omars252
Egypt8 Posts
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Zyxds
United States91 Posts
would be a cost in the ability to macro and it would make scouting the switch over to warp gate very important to prepare for an attack. It might even make WG a bit of a mid or late game tech with stronger gateway units to make up for it. Then maybe gateway units could be buffed and FF nerfed a bit. I'm not going to try and figure out numbers but it's something else to think about. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On November 20 2012 01:04 Zyxds wrote: What if gateways produced faster than warp gates? Then they could still reinforce and warp prism harass but there would be a cost in the ability to macro and it would make scouting the switch over to warp gate very important to prepare for an attack. It might even make WG a bit of a mid or late game tech with stronger gateway units to make up for it. Then maybe gateway units could be buffed and FF nerfed a bit. I'm not going to try and figure out numbers but it's something else to think about. This is how the Starbow mod does it. It makes regular army production gateway. Warp gates are actually exciting because it means someone snuck a proxy pylon or a warp prism. Terrain ignoring abilities should be limited in their use. We can't warp on the high ground but we can still blink on it with a protoss main army unit? | ||
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NeonFlare
Finland1307 Posts
I'm pretty sure they won't touch the current high ground advantage system nor give more units interesting moving shots (Phoenix is silly automation, marines have good animation but shoot too fast for it to be as interesting, Stalkers are decent for it, maybe I just miss Vultures.) but at least tweaking/changing the annoying abilities would do a lot. Compressing unit roles and softening some counters a bit would be pretty nice but probably too much to be asked. | ||
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lolmlg
619 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
That'd make sure to keep the defensive utilities of forcefield while limiting it's offensive capabilities. I don't think blizzard wanted Toss to be making 6+ sentries. The exact numbers can be tweaked but maybe 66-100 energy to cast, starting energy 66-100. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
I really like simple answers to fix this issue, so one does not break the game. I think we can do two things. Queen: Make them massive. So they can break FF for protoss all ins. Because they are slow off creep. The queen would not be viable to abuse the FF crushing tactic. This make make FF a more defensive spell, with a more supporting role. This would force protoss to snipe queens and deny creep spread as a main tactic, like zvt. This will allow banelings to be viable with out Overlord drops, like in zvt. Furthermore, Creep spreading would actually occur in zvp, forcing protoss to deny creep or be behind. This meta game shift would require micro during the early to mid game build phase, separating good players from great place because of the increase amount of multitasking required. Infester: Fungle only freeze light units. All other units are slowed. This would allow vikings and Stalkers to more easily snipe BL. Furthermore it would still prevent gasless 3/3 marines winning the game by them selves. The slow would increase micro situations.. Also. The fungle change would make zvz a more positional match up. One can actually kill a player now who is behind, and can not abuse the fungle until they are maxed. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
I don't get how you think creep spreading isn't important in ZvP, it's one of the things you can do to slow down this exact kind of push since it gives you more effective ability to bait forcefields in the middle of the map, and a secondary warning scout in case you miss the original push out. Parting's 10:30 version goes triple immortal before observer, doesn't it? | ||
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iGn1t3
Hong Kong73 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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czaku
Poland429 Posts
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LastDance
New Zealand510 Posts
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On November 20 2012 03:06 astor wrote: Wow, as a protoss player i really like massive queens, but as someone stated before, phoenix would feel it too much. Maybe the special ability for queens, like hardened shield for immortal, to break the ff. thats true but void ray would enjoy it :D | ||
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achristes
Norway653 Posts
On November 20 2012 03:29 Ksyper wrote: Just give us the BW hydras and ZvP will be awesome, hydras can still be light so collossi are good vs them. Lower hydra dps, increase health, give speed upgrade and make them tier 1.5. FF won't matter as much if zerg has a nice long range unit. Maybe make them 1 food? If hydras still cost 100 minerals and 50 gas they won't be overpowered midgame. I know what Im saying is dumb, but I still think that the answer is changing the hydra in some way. FYI collo doesn't do bonus damage vs anything. | ||
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
Lower hydra dps, increase health, give speed upgrade and make them tier 1.5. FF won't matter as much if zerg has a nice long range unit. Maybe make them 1 food? If hydras still cost 100 minerals and 50 gas they won't be overpowered midgame. I know what Im saying is dumb, but I still think that the answer is changing the hydra in some way. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
One thing I could think of is to switch forcefield to a twilight council upgrade and charge to a cybercore upgrade. That might be potentially too powerful but early game chargelots that are without upgrades or tons of additional unit support seem like they wouldn't be too difficult to deal with. This would buff zealots enough to make some TvP pressures a bit easier to hold and would make PvP a bit easier for defensive purposes as zealots wouldn't be useless against early stalkers in PvP, which might help alleviate some of the necessity of FF in the early game. Ultimately suggestions like this are kind of irrelevant, since I can't see there being any circumstance where the design team reworks an entire race to get rid of a spell they don't even have a problem with. I also think giving forcefield some sort of health duration would be nice. It would allow players to focus fire down the FF to open up their attack routes. Their units wouldn't be attacking for a while, but I can't imagine many Z and T players thinking that's not worth it to get rid of the unavoidable no-more-micro effect of the FF. Just a thought. Ugh I hate theorycrafting like this. edit; giving the queen massive status makes no sense. Look at the HotS units Protoss are getting and what the design team has said. They obviously want stargate openers to become more relevant in PvX, making the queen massive would essentially eliminate any use for phoenix openings. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
Protection Bubble: temporarily makes any non-massive unit invunerable to any damage. the radius of the bubble would be slightly larger then the unit and would be fairly low energy to cast. (though it doesn't last long either). When in the bubble the unit cannot attack (not sure about that). The abilty would also be able to be casted on enemy units like banelings as suddenly they cannot blow up anymore, on the other side, you can't kill the baneling until the bubble wears off. | ||
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TWIX_Heaven
Denmark169 Posts
(Here comes the crap, but its just to get the idea of what i mean): Why not make banelings kills forcefields with 2-3 hits, means the prottoss player has to focus banes if he wants to be effective/zerg has to micro/target forcefields with fragile units give certain units (maybe zergling/baneling) an upgrade to actually traverse forcefields(aka zerg jump in hots campaign) maybe a medivac can use castable spell that free's a small portion of bio from fungal (tough micro in the short span of fungal) make FF a slow aura/give Zealots slow aura/stalkers slowing missile/ect Overlord goo dropping makes FF's traversable (hard to do, hard to stop) Sacrificing Z units with a spell near a forcefield corrupts the FF killing it (late game spell) give ultra's stampede upgrade so they dont collide with lings (bringing them quicker to the front smashing fields) ultra charge is already somewhat interesting make FF a chain-ligthning sorta spell that puts random units (in a chain) frozen/invul/impassable - and they unfreeze later (sorta like a FF/minivortex combo) give zerg a unit that can lob acid, that explodes after some time, if the toss it completely surrounded by FF's he will take terrible terrible damage, otherwise he just moves away from it minimal losses. remove fungal, and instead give lings an upgrade where if they make contact with a enemy unit that unit is affected by a fungal type effect (run lings past enemies, give terran time to spread out ie not instant, still deadly) make tanks smash FF's - render tanks useless with a FF directly on top and so on and so on. I think instead of always thinking about the game in terms of balance, it might be healthy to look at the game in terms of mechanics, and balance the game by removing/adding instead of always tweaking stuff that is clearly close to unfixable. | ||
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malaan
365 Posts
What happens, what specifically? someone should create a custom map to test some shit out. We all imagine it would be impossible for toss to win but would it really? sentry's cost 100 gas, imagine what else you could do given no other choice. Forced change makes strong adaptions. I would be totally interested in seeing how it played out, especially at the pro level. | ||
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