|
monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely in HotS. |
On November 19 2012 04:16 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 03:58 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 03:48 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 03:29 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 02:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 02:16 yoigen wrote:I play random, and I can use any of the races. I know almost all the strategies for the races, as well as the various types of all-ins and cheeses.
I'm really good in the first 10-15 minutes, about as good as professionals even. But as the game draws longer, I become weaker and weaker, especially when it comes to a situation with 200/200 supply, my play is just....... I seriously hope this is a joke. it probably isn't, the guy might know of all of those strategies and possibilities from, ya know, being the designer of the game and having followed it closely since the beta O_O he's not saying he's consistently playing on a professional level If you've been following what Browder has said over the past 2 years it's clear that this is obviously either a joke or him just downright lying. The guy wasn't even aware of the mothership's use in PvZ months after it had become commonplace. Furthermore, the guy is in gold or plat league. It's just the exact type of ignorant statement that you'd expect to hear from someone of those leagues. "Oh yea, I'm basically as good as a pro, it's just my lategame engagements that hold me back, ya know..." No, he's nowhere near pro level, not at any time in the game. You can hit a lot of the same timings up to about 10 min w practice as pros but the decision-making about what to do after, the reflexes, none of that will be even close. I love your preconceived notion about how you think gold/platinum players act, as if they're all try hard whiners who have completely unrealistic ideas about their play. What makes you think it's a preconceived notion? I know tons of gold/plat players, there's like 40 on our CSL team and many of them think this same way. It really takes a certain amount of time and effort at SC2 to truly realize how bad you really are compared to pros. Also I love how you just pull out arbitrary numbers like "about 10 min" when Browder is saying "10-15 mins". The truth is, if you are Plat (or w/e league Browder is in) you aren't anywhere close to pro level, not at 5 minutes, not at 10 minutes, never. Maybe against an easy comp you can hit the same timings as pros, but that's about it. It's a preconceived notion because you are forming an opinion on not one but two entire leagues based on hearing a minority have unrealistic ideas about their play. That does, and should not, follow to reason that you expect to hear ignorance from gold/plat players in general. Maybe your CSL team does a shitty job of picking people who have solid ideas about what they need to improve on? It's funny that you would extend all of their bogus thoughts to anyone else who incidentally is in the same league. The definition of prejudiced. Also, it's hilarious that you think "about 10 minutes" is arbitrary when that is part of the statement DB made. I already addressed the fact that I don't think his reflexes or decision-making are there, period, to give him any idea of really being on the level of a pro but if you're discussing build orders, unit count, etc. he probably can do a pretty good job of hitting those marks at ~10 minutes You realize that it's not possible to be in Gold or Plat if you play as well as Pros for 10-15 minutes? I'm sorry to sound like a dick, but do you actually play SC2? I only ask because I've seen you mod for streamers, but never knew if you played or not. Browder's statement is literally impossible unless he just throws games starting at the 15 minute mark.
You really do want to force this point home huh? Anyone with a brain cell would be able to tell (like I've posted, for a third time now) that his reflexes and decision-making are not on the level of a pro, but it is ENTIRELY possible that he can be at nearly the same place as a pro around 10 minutes in terms of unit count, unit producing buildings, and tech/upgrades. I mean, are the gold/plat players you've seen really that bad to where they can't emulate a build they see in a replay up until that point or thereabouts? That's more than likely what DB is talking about, I think you're jumping all over him a bit too much.
I play T in Diamond league, if it matters that much to you.
|
Browder said he was low masters previously, recently dropped to diamond/platinum because he didn't play as much. Something along those lines, but he said this some months ago. But you don't know if he has been putting in time playing recently. Also he didn't say he was playing as well, but almost as well. And in fact, hitting your timings while passively macroing up isn't that difficult. Furthermore, diamond now is masters of a few seasons ago, as player skill keeps increasing. I've played games vs diamond opponents where they hit really nice timings that a pro player wouldn't improve upon that much.
Dustin Browder plays the game more than probably 90% of this forum.
|
|
|
I guess I musta missed something crucial during my training because I'm mid masters with random and I can't play nearly as well as pros for 10-15 minutes ;\
|
On November 19 2012 04:56 SupLilSon wrote:
I guess I musta missed something crucial during my training because I'm mid masters with random and I can't play nearly as well as pros for 10-15 minutes ;\
Ah well, you play on SEA. :p
|
On November 19 2012 04:22 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 04:16 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 03:58 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 03:48 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 03:29 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 02:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 02:16 yoigen wrote:I play random, and I can use any of the races. I know almost all the strategies for the races, as well as the various types of all-ins and cheeses.
I'm really good in the first 10-15 minutes, about as good as professionals even. But as the game draws longer, I become weaker and weaker, especially when it comes to a situation with 200/200 supply, my play is just....... I seriously hope this is a joke. it probably isn't, the guy might know of all of those strategies and possibilities from, ya know, being the designer of the game and having followed it closely since the beta O_O he's not saying he's consistently playing on a professional level If you've been following what Browder has said over the past 2 years it's clear that this is obviously either a joke or him just downright lying. The guy wasn't even aware of the mothership's use in PvZ months after it had become commonplace. Furthermore, the guy is in gold or plat league. It's just the exact type of ignorant statement that you'd expect to hear from someone of those leagues. "Oh yea, I'm basically as good as a pro, it's just my lategame engagements that hold me back, ya know..." No, he's nowhere near pro level, not at any time in the game. You can hit a lot of the same timings up to about 10 min w practice as pros but the decision-making about what to do after, the reflexes, none of that will be even close. I love your preconceived notion about how you think gold/platinum players act, as if they're all try hard whiners who have completely unrealistic ideas about their play. What makes you think it's a preconceived notion? I know tons of gold/plat players, there's like 40 on our CSL team and many of them think this same way. It really takes a certain amount of time and effort at SC2 to truly realize how bad you really are compared to pros. Also I love how you just pull out arbitrary numbers like "about 10 min" when Browder is saying "10-15 mins". The truth is, if you are Plat (or w/e league Browder is in) you aren't anywhere close to pro level, not at 5 minutes, not at 10 minutes, never. Maybe against an easy comp you can hit the same timings as pros, but that's about it. It's a preconceived notion because you are forming an opinion on not one but two entire leagues based on hearing a minority have unrealistic ideas about their play. That does, and should not, follow to reason that you expect to hear ignorance from gold/plat players in general. Maybe your CSL team does a shitty job of picking people who have solid ideas about what they need to improve on? It's funny that you would extend all of their bogus thoughts to anyone else who incidentally is in the same league. The definition of prejudiced. Also, it's hilarious that you think "about 10 minutes" is arbitrary when that is part of the statement DB made. I already addressed the fact that I don't think his reflexes or decision-making are there, period, to give him any idea of really being on the level of a pro but if you're discussing build orders, unit count, etc. he probably can do a pretty good job of hitting those marks at ~10 minutes You realize that it's not possible to be in Gold or Plat if you play as well as Pros for 10-15 minutes? I'm sorry to sound like a dick, but do you actually play SC2? I only ask because I've seen you mod for streamers, but never knew if you played or not. Browder's statement is literally impossible unless he just throws games starting at the 15 minute mark. You really do want to force this point home huh? Anyone with a brain cell would be able to tell (like I've posted, for a third time now) that his reflexes and decision-making are not on the level of a pro, but it is ENTIRELY possible that he can be at nearly the same place as a pro around 10 minutes in terms of unit count, unit producing buildings, and tech/upgrades. I mean, are the gold/plat players you've seen really that bad to where they can't emulate a build they see in a replay up until that point or thereabouts? That's more than likely what DB is talking about, I think you're jumping all over him a bit too much. I play T in Diamond league, if it matters that much to you.
Uh this is definately false. A gold/plat player, and probably even a diamond player cannot emulate a pro build up to 10 mins except in cases where they have no opponents (or a weak AI).
|
I see GM level players fail to move out as early as Parting's Immortal/Sentry, so I don't even want to know what Plat players are doing.
|
On November 19 2012 05:03 Fission wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 04:22 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 04:16 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 03:58 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 03:48 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 03:29 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 02:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 02:16 yoigen wrote:I play random, and I can use any of the races. I know almost all the strategies for the races, as well as the various types of all-ins and cheeses.
I'm really good in the first 10-15 minutes, about as good as professionals even. But as the game draws longer, I become weaker and weaker, especially when it comes to a situation with 200/200 supply, my play is just....... I seriously hope this is a joke. it probably isn't, the guy might know of all of those strategies and possibilities from, ya know, being the designer of the game and having followed it closely since the beta O_O he's not saying he's consistently playing on a professional level If you've been following what Browder has said over the past 2 years it's clear that this is obviously either a joke or him just downright lying. The guy wasn't even aware of the mothership's use in PvZ months after it had become commonplace. Furthermore, the guy is in gold or plat league. It's just the exact type of ignorant statement that you'd expect to hear from someone of those leagues. "Oh yea, I'm basically as good as a pro, it's just my lategame engagements that hold me back, ya know..." No, he's nowhere near pro level, not at any time in the game. You can hit a lot of the same timings up to about 10 min w practice as pros but the decision-making about what to do after, the reflexes, none of that will be even close. I love your preconceived notion about how you think gold/platinum players act, as if they're all try hard whiners who have completely unrealistic ideas about their play. What makes you think it's a preconceived notion? I know tons of gold/plat players, there's like 40 on our CSL team and many of them think this same way. It really takes a certain amount of time and effort at SC2 to truly realize how bad you really are compared to pros. Also I love how you just pull out arbitrary numbers like "about 10 min" when Browder is saying "10-15 mins". The truth is, if you are Plat (or w/e league Browder is in) you aren't anywhere close to pro level, not at 5 minutes, not at 10 minutes, never. Maybe against an easy comp you can hit the same timings as pros, but that's about it. It's a preconceived notion because you are forming an opinion on not one but two entire leagues based on hearing a minority have unrealistic ideas about their play. That does, and should not, follow to reason that you expect to hear ignorance from gold/plat players in general. Maybe your CSL team does a shitty job of picking people who have solid ideas about what they need to improve on? It's funny that you would extend all of their bogus thoughts to anyone else who incidentally is in the same league. The definition of prejudiced. Also, it's hilarious that you think "about 10 minutes" is arbitrary when that is part of the statement DB made. I already addressed the fact that I don't think his reflexes or decision-making are there, period, to give him any idea of really being on the level of a pro but if you're discussing build orders, unit count, etc. he probably can do a pretty good job of hitting those marks at ~10 minutes You realize that it's not possible to be in Gold or Plat if you play as well as Pros for 10-15 minutes? I'm sorry to sound like a dick, but do you actually play SC2? I only ask because I've seen you mod for streamers, but never knew if you played or not. Browder's statement is literally impossible unless he just throws games starting at the 15 minute mark. You really do want to force this point home huh? Anyone with a brain cell would be able to tell (like I've posted, for a third time now) that his reflexes and decision-making are not on the level of a pro, but it is ENTIRELY possible that he can be at nearly the same place as a pro around 10 minutes in terms of unit count, unit producing buildings, and tech/upgrades. I mean, are the gold/plat players you've seen really that bad to where they can't emulate a build they see in a replay up until that point or thereabouts? That's more than likely what DB is talking about, I think you're jumping all over him a bit too much. I play T in Diamond league, if it matters that much to you. Uh this is definately false. A gold/plat player, and probably even a diamond player cannot emulate a pro build up to 10 mins except in cases where they have no opponents (or a weak AI).
Someone made a post right above this about being able to replicate Thorzain's build very well being in Diamond, are you saying he's lying?
|
On November 19 2012 05:10 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:03 Fission wrote:On November 19 2012 04:22 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 04:16 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 03:58 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 03:48 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 03:29 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 02:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 02:16 yoigen wrote:
[quote]
I seriously hope this is a joke. it probably isn't, the guy might know of all of those strategies and possibilities from, ya know, being the designer of the game and having followed it closely since the beta O_O he's not saying he's consistently playing on a professional level If you've been following what Browder has said over the past 2 years it's clear that this is obviously either a joke or him just downright lying. The guy wasn't even aware of the mothership's use in PvZ months after it had become commonplace. Furthermore, the guy is in gold or plat league. It's just the exact type of ignorant statement that you'd expect to hear from someone of those leagues. "Oh yea, I'm basically as good as a pro, it's just my lategame engagements that hold me back, ya know..." No, he's nowhere near pro level, not at any time in the game. You can hit a lot of the same timings up to about 10 min w practice as pros but the decision-making about what to do after, the reflexes, none of that will be even close. I love your preconceived notion about how you think gold/platinum players act, as if they're all try hard whiners who have completely unrealistic ideas about their play. What makes you think it's a preconceived notion? I know tons of gold/plat players, there's like 40 on our CSL team and many of them think this same way. It really takes a certain amount of time and effort at SC2 to truly realize how bad you really are compared to pros. Also I love how you just pull out arbitrary numbers like "about 10 min" when Browder is saying "10-15 mins". The truth is, if you are Plat (or w/e league Browder is in) you aren't anywhere close to pro level, not at 5 minutes, not at 10 minutes, never. Maybe against an easy comp you can hit the same timings as pros, but that's about it. It's a preconceived notion because you are forming an opinion on not one but two entire leagues based on hearing a minority have unrealistic ideas about their play. That does, and should not, follow to reason that you expect to hear ignorance from gold/plat players in general. Maybe your CSL team does a shitty job of picking people who have solid ideas about what they need to improve on? It's funny that you would extend all of their bogus thoughts to anyone else who incidentally is in the same league. The definition of prejudiced. Also, it's hilarious that you think "about 10 minutes" is arbitrary when that is part of the statement DB made. I already addressed the fact that I don't think his reflexes or decision-making are there, period, to give him any idea of really being on the level of a pro but if you're discussing build orders, unit count, etc. he probably can do a pretty good job of hitting those marks at ~10 minutes You realize that it's not possible to be in Gold or Plat if you play as well as Pros for 10-15 minutes? I'm sorry to sound like a dick, but do you actually play SC2? I only ask because I've seen you mod for streamers, but never knew if you played or not. Browder's statement is literally impossible unless he just throws games starting at the 15 minute mark. You really do want to force this point home huh? Anyone with a brain cell would be able to tell (like I've posted, for a third time now) that his reflexes and decision-making are not on the level of a pro, but it is ENTIRELY possible that he can be at nearly the same place as a pro around 10 minutes in terms of unit count, unit producing buildings, and tech/upgrades. I mean, are the gold/plat players you've seen really that bad to where they can't emulate a build they see in a replay up until that point or thereabouts? That's more than likely what DB is talking about, I think you're jumping all over him a bit too much. I play T in Diamond league, if it matters that much to you. Uh this is definately false. A gold/plat player, and probably even a diamond player cannot emulate a pro build up to 10 mins except in cases where they have no opponents (or a weak AI). Someone made a post right above this about being able to replicate Thorzain's build very well being in Diamond, are you saying he's lying?
He probably is just ignorant to how much of a difference there really is between his execution and ThorZain's execution. Like I said earlier, it's not uncommon for lower level players to have a very misguided perception of their own play.
|
|
|
On November 19 2012 05:14 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:10 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 05:03 Fission wrote:On November 19 2012 04:22 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 04:16 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 03:58 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 03:48 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 19 2012 03:29 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 02:30 BlueLanterna wrote:
[quote]
it probably isn't, the guy might know of all of those strategies and possibilities from, ya know, being the designer of the game and having followed it closely since the beta O_O
he's not saying he's consistently playing on a professional level
If you've been following what Browder has said over the past 2 years it's clear that this is obviously either a joke or him just downright lying. The guy wasn't even aware of the mothership's use in PvZ months after it had become commonplace. Furthermore, the guy is in gold or plat league. It's just the exact type of ignorant statement that you'd expect to hear from someone of those leagues. "Oh yea, I'm basically as good as a pro, it's just my lategame engagements that hold me back, ya know..." No, he's nowhere near pro level, not at any time in the game. You can hit a lot of the same timings up to about 10 min w practice as pros but the decision-making about what to do after, the reflexes, none of that will be even close. I love your preconceived notion about how you think gold/platinum players act, as if they're all try hard whiners who have completely unrealistic ideas about their play. What makes you think it's a preconceived notion? I know tons of gold/plat players, there's like 40 on our CSL team and many of them think this same way. It really takes a certain amount of time and effort at SC2 to truly realize how bad you really are compared to pros. Also I love how you just pull out arbitrary numbers like "about 10 min" when Browder is saying "10-15 mins". The truth is, if you are Plat (or w/e league Browder is in) you aren't anywhere close to pro level, not at 5 minutes, not at 10 minutes, never. Maybe against an easy comp you can hit the same timings as pros, but that's about it. It's a preconceived notion because you are forming an opinion on not one but two entire leagues based on hearing a minority have unrealistic ideas about their play. That does, and should not, follow to reason that you expect to hear ignorance from gold/plat players in general. Maybe your CSL team does a shitty job of picking people who have solid ideas about what they need to improve on? It's funny that you would extend all of their bogus thoughts to anyone else who incidentally is in the same league. The definition of prejudiced. Also, it's hilarious that you think "about 10 minutes" is arbitrary when that is part of the statement DB made. I already addressed the fact that I don't think his reflexes or decision-making are there, period, to give him any idea of really being on the level of a pro but if you're discussing build orders, unit count, etc. he probably can do a pretty good job of hitting those marks at ~10 minutes You realize that it's not possible to be in Gold or Plat if you play as well as Pros for 10-15 minutes? I'm sorry to sound like a dick, but do you actually play SC2? I only ask because I've seen you mod for streamers, but never knew if you played or not. Browder's statement is literally impossible unless he just throws games starting at the 15 minute mark. You really do want to force this point home huh? Anyone with a brain cell would be able to tell (like I've posted, for a third time now) that his reflexes and decision-making are not on the level of a pro, but it is ENTIRELY possible that he can be at nearly the same place as a pro around 10 minutes in terms of unit count, unit producing buildings, and tech/upgrades. I mean, are the gold/plat players you've seen really that bad to where they can't emulate a build they see in a replay up until that point or thereabouts? That's more than likely what DB is talking about, I think you're jumping all over him a bit too much. I play T in Diamond league, if it matters that much to you. Uh this is definately false. A gold/plat player, and probably even a diamond player cannot emulate a pro build up to 10 mins except in cases where they have no opponents (or a weak AI). Someone made a post right above this about being able to replicate Thorzain's build very well being in Diamond, are you saying he's lying? He probably is just ignorant to how much of a difference there really is between his execution and ThorZain's execution. Like I said earlier, it's not uncommon for lower level players to have a very misguided perception of their own play.
That's a fair point, but that goes back to the point that I was making: that DB (and lower-league players) CAN emulate a pro build very well, but only in terms of the hard numbers (units at X time, buildings at X time, upgrades at X time). The real meat is understanding what transitions to make, what to look for in scouting, army movement, etc.
Obviously everyone who is in a league lower than tip top masters does not have the understanding of those as well as they could. IMHO there is a line between being able to build things at the expected time, have a particular worker count, and be working on 1/1 ups around ~10 minutes (which is what I think of as "emulating a pro build" and what DB is probably describing), and being able to figure out very subtle pieces of the game which make the pro players SO much better than normal joes, it's NOT that they have the ability to hit timings with buildings, its their understanding of the deeper metagame and concepts, along with the reflexes.
|
great interview, kudos to Frodan 
|
Getting back to the actual interview, what Dustin said about the state of HotS sounds pretty grounded. Judging from his comments I'd imagine the next balance patch will be Terran focused, along with some Oracle numbers tweaking; "doesn't work at all" with regards to TvP mech implies the most drastic amount of changes, as does the swingy nature of widow mines.
WoL changes, doesn't sound like a new patch will be out anytime soon until the changes are out for a while in HotS. Making interceptors fungal-immune makes sense, as does the fungal projectile. Making infestors slower might cripple them a little too much. I'm personally a fan of making them 3 supply, but that also might be too much a swing after fungal is nerfed.
|
Really like the direction Dustin is going in. Looking forward to playing on the test map.
|
This interview made me realize how troubled the future of sc2 development is with this clown as the leader. Somewhere in between him suggesting another placebo nerf to infested brood lord that will likely create more problems than it solves and claiming he played a pro level game for 10-15 I just completely lost all hope. It's not even ignorance at this point, blizzard just seems to have their own vision of how sc2 should be played an isn't willing to reconcile that with what the player base wants.
|
This thread make me realized how much the community doesn't understand anything about what Blizzard actually try to do. ;;
|
Good interview, well done, Frodan. :-)
|
List of psionic units:
Protoss
Sentry
High Templar
Dark Templar
Archon
Warp Prism
Mothership
Terran
Ghost
Zerg
Queen
Infestor
So terran would get 1 unit immune to fungal growth while Protoss would get 6?
Hmm, that doesn't seem fair.
To me it seems like Terran has more of a problem with fungal while Protoss has more of a problem with infested marines.
Terran can mass repair bunkers and pf's to counter infested marines but its units have low hp.
|
Agreed. Some kind of late game buff for terran is in order. They suffered long enough.
|
I don't agree with fungals not affecting sentries.
Sentries are obnoxious enough as it is.
Without fungals, how will zerg kill them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
