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[Poll] How Infestor could be changed? - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
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ArcticMuse
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia93 Posts
November 09 2012 01:39 GMT
#341
I would like to see a nerf to fungals damage to armoured units, along with a slight buff to the bonus damage given by upgrades to mutas, coupled with a slight buff to hydras. This would result in changing the mass roach infestor meta game, buff mech in tvz (might need to change IT's along with this, along with allowing zerg to go for more diversity in the mid game (hydra, muta play is better). I dont think you can just go ahead and nerf infestors without buffing zer a bit somewhere else, or you will just cripple them somewhere else. I'm also opposed to chanving fungal to a projectile, banelings can offten be out microed, and without fungal how it is zerg will be demolished by mass marine along with a lot of protoss all-ins
BuddhaMonk
Profile Joined August 2010
781 Posts
November 09 2012 01:43 GMT
#342
Some other suggestions I've seen:

- Make fungal only root when units are on creep, and slow off creep
- Reduce the model size of infestor so that they clump more
SickeL
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
110 Posts
November 09 2012 01:44 GMT
#343
Fungal is already a projectile.
A wise man once said "Oppa Gangnam style."
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
November 09 2012 01:50 GMT
#344
On November 09 2012 10:39 ArcticMuse wrote:
I would like to see a nerf to fungals damage to armoured units, along with a slight buff to the bonus damage given by upgrades to mutas, coupled with a slight buff to hydras. This would result in changing the mass roach infestor meta game, buff mech in tvz (might need to change IT's along with this, along with allowing zerg to go for more diversity in the mid game (hydra, muta play is better). I dont think you can just go ahead and nerf infestors without buffing zer a bit somewhere else, or you will just cripple them somewhere else. I'm also opposed to chanving fungal to a projectile, banelings can offten be out microed, and without fungal how it is zerg will be demolished by mass marine along with a lot of protoss all-ins


Do not buff mutas, Muta play in PvZ is strong enough as it is.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
knOxStarcraft
Profile Joined March 2012
Canada422 Posts
November 09 2012 02:09 GMT
#345
Wow you guys are going bonkers with these change proposals. Changing fungal from stun to slow would make a huuuge difference by itself. They should start with that one change then see if it becomes better. And please no more "but but, you can mass just infestors QQQQ".. blink stalkers? Plus mass infestor balls have huuuge flaws, not sure why everyone is saying that's so OP.
Zrana
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom698 Posts
November 09 2012 02:51 GMT
#346
IMO buff zergling HP and size a fraction (like 5-10%)

Fungal is pretty much a crutch zerg leans on to deal with the mid to late gameT and P (and Z actually) tightly balled packs of units which would crush anything zerg has if not for fungal.

Both zlings and infestors are used throughout every matchup (more or less) and so if you nerf infestors then zlings are a great candidate for buffing. Just make them last another second or two in the big battles and if fungal is changed to something like a slow instead of snare, then that probably would work out pretty well for balance.
The only issue really is stuff like 6pools, but if spawning pool build time is increased it can make up the difference.
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
November 09 2012 02:57 GMT
#347
Fungal immobilises on creep, slows off creep. Pathogen Glands removed, new upgrade added to allow burrow movement and infested terran use while burrowed.
Ethoex
Profile Joined June 2012
United States164 Posts
November 09 2012 03:14 GMT
#348
great ideas i hope blizz reads this
"Until the very, very top, in almost anything all that matters, is how much work you put in. The only problem is that most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for." - Greg "IdrA" Fields
xAdra
Profile Joined July 2012
Singapore1858 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-09 03:20:04
November 09 2012 03:16 GMT
#349
Voted yes for everything except the final one. Not hitting your own units is a sign of synergy, and I'd enjoy the slow+zergling attack synergy. Yes, I hate infestors that much. Unable to think rationally atm, but it's pretty much indisputable that infestors are horribly, horribly broken right now.

On November 09 2012 10:44 SickeL wrote:
Fungal is already a projectile.

No it isn't. No idea where you got this thought
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10836 Posts
November 09 2012 03:17 GMT
#350
I think they should nerf the infestor but also make it so it can move while burrowed, that would be awesome and would add more dynamic to the game.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
kinglemon
Profile Joined September 2011
Germany199 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-09 03:35:29
November 09 2012 03:34 GMT
#351
why not make fungal a 75% slow and buff hydras for like 10hp ?
way more interesting gameplay imo.
FireBlast!
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United Kingdom5251 Posts
November 09 2012 04:03 GMT
#352
Just changing it to 3 food is perfect imo... Infestors become a balance problem only when theyre massed because their spells scale ridiculously well (unlike HTs and Ghosts which you can make too many of and lose battles because of the wrong army balance) It shouldn't be about changing the infestor itself but limiting their numbers so that there is a limited mana reserve, making the zerg player think twice before mindlessly spamming spells mid-battle, or even making them at all when additional roach/ling/muta would actually be more cost-effective
Victoria Concordia Crescit
Sky_
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada116 Posts
November 09 2012 04:03 GMT
#353
On November 09 2012 12:17 GGzerG wrote:
I think they should nerf the infestor but also make it so it can move while burrowed, that would be awesome and would add more dynamic to the game.


Wut, Infestors can already move while burrowed.
President Dead
Profile Joined November 2012
97 Posts
November 09 2012 04:04 GMT
#354
On November 09 2012 10:11 Rui.S wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2012 07:59 meltingmykohchoo wrote:
On November 08 2012 18:40 Fuzer wrote:
Change infested terran egg to light armor and give it same amount of hp as infested terran intself instead of 100, so its actually usefull to focus eggs before they spawn.

Make the infestor size smaller so I can emp / 8 of them with 1 EMP instead of 3.

you're complaining that you can't snipe 3 enemy spell casters w/ 1 spell instead of 8?...

emp doesn't do any damage to the infestors... 1 fungal on your ghosts and gg 12 ghosts.



And why did you allow your Ghosts to be fungaled?


PS, Is this thread an exception to balance discussion? Much of this thread is against the rules of TL.
Hey, I'm a police officer. Just do what I tell ya.
LavaLava
Profile Joined January 2012
United States235 Posts
November 09 2012 04:10 GMT
#355
You know what? Just make it so units continue with their previous orders when Fungal comes off them. That's all I ask.
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
November 09 2012 04:13 GMT
#356
On November 09 2012 03:21 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2012 03:14 Darpa wrote:
I think 3 supply infestor, slow instead of immobilize and if they dont change that then make it so fungal cant kill. That way infestors couldnt catch a group of 50 marines or banshees, pheonix, zealots ect and fungal them all down without actually risking some units.

also no parasite on mothership... although Im not sure how zerg would beat mass mech thor banshee hellion viking without neural affecting thors... its hard to survive to that point, but once you hit that critical mass of thors its very hard for a zerg to beat it even with broodlord infestor.

You don't make Thors en masse to deal with BLs because high BLs counts easily win, especially with Queen support (Broodlings preventing some of the Thors from reaching BLs, Transfuse negating the slow damage coming from the Thors, etc.). Fighting high BLs/Corruptors/Infestors counts without Ravens is hopeless.



Ive seen lucifron go mass thors in several games against zerg. It does work as long as you can pick an engagement where you are in range.
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
Carnate
Profile Joined September 2010
United States62 Posts
November 09 2012 04:14 GMT
#357
It took about two years before Zergs really started massing infestors. We should give the other races a similar amount of time to come up with their own solution.
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
November 09 2012 04:18 GMT
#358
On November 09 2012 13:03 Sky_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2012 12:17 GGzerG wrote:
I think they should nerf the infestor but also make it so it can move while burrowed, that would be awesome and would add more dynamic to the game.


Wut, Infestors can already move while burrowed.

Since he has over 3k posts I think he was sarcastic...
Existential
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia2107 Posts
November 09 2012 04:22 GMT
#359
Change the hp of infested terran eggs. And also don't let them have upgrade benefits. I don't think 0 supply units deserve the extra damage and armour from upgrades.
Jaedong <3 | BW - The first game I ever loved
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10061 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-09 04:34:11
November 09 2012 04:26 GMT
#360
On November 09 2012 03:46 MrBitter wrote:
Posted this in the Blizz pro forums just yesterday:

+ Show Spoiler +
Hi dudes,

So the infestor has become the target of many people's whines recently. I'm not sure that this is the place to rant about it, but I wanted to get my opinions out there for people to see, and hopefully for Blizzard to comment on.

While I can recognize that tournament results at the highest level have remained varied, I can't help but feel like late game Zerg play has become very face-roll and skill-less. This isn't to say that top level Zerg play isn't impressive - it is, but in certain matchups, on certain maps, and in certain cases, we see the game devolve to Zerg turtling behind spine crawlers and infestors, defending drops and harass, and slowly accumulating a critical mass of brood lord / infestor before pushing out to win the game.

Yes, we were all very impressed when Rain dismantled DRG in the OSL finals, and I can recognize that it is possible for Protoss to win in the super late game against Zerg, but I can't help but to feel that Protoss has to work a lot harder at a certain point in the game to get those impressive wins.

Like... a loooot harder.

When we step back and look at the game, we see a lot of things that are, perhaps, too strong.

Infestors. Brood lords. Spine crawlers. These things are all super powerful.

As are Colossi, blink stalkers, mother ship, and tons of other Protoss stuff.

The problem isn't overpowered stuff. The problem comes when you no longer have an answer to overpowered stuff.

And I do feel that, at a point, infestor broodlord just snowballs out of control.

I don't blame this on it being a far superior fighting army... We've seen Protoss players kill this composition in the past even without vortex.

And I don't blame it on the fungal mechanic shutting down micro.

I think it just boils down to points in the game where Protoss is disallowed from engaging certain aspects of the Zerg army.

A zerg player has to make a mistake for Protoss to kill his infestors. A zerg player has to expose his broodlords for that army to be threatened.

Incidentally, all of this also applies to Terran in some ways.

Fundamentally, I think you can solve this problem with one small change to Protoss, and one small change to Terran... By buffing their anti-infestor casters. The high templar and the ghosts respectively.

I think increasing the range on feedback and snipe would do wonders to bring stability, and MOBILITY back to the matchups, and I also think it would silence the masses that love to cry about the overpoweredness of certain Zerg army compositions.

It's almost impossible for Protoss and Terran players to successfully feedback or snipe infestors without losing the units they commit to doing so. Often, we see Protoss players send 2-3 high templar forward to feedback, successfully kill 1-2 infestors, and lose their units, resulting in a cost-ineffective trade.

I honestly feel like this happens purely because you can never reach infestors.

I would like to see feedback range tested at something like range 12. Give them broodlord range, so that infestors have to be positioned underneath broods, and can be punished if left overly exposed.

This will still preserve the strength of broodlord infestor, while giving Protoss a way to combat the strength of fungal.

Obviously, if you're going to buff feedback, you have to buff snipe, but in this case, I think an equivalent range buff to ghosts would do wonders to ease Terran woes as well. (And for all the same reasons listed above)

For me, as a player, I get very bored of the turtley games that we are continuing to see day in and day out. As a caster, I can put on a blindfold and talk an audience through a PvZ on Daybreak. And as a fan of the game, I long for mechanics that push players away from being static and immobile, and toward being aggressive and active.

I would love to hear what other top players think of this change, and also to see what Blizz has to say on the matter.

<3s and kudos. Thanks for reading.


TLDR: Don't nerf infestor. Instead buff the range of feedback and snipe.


buffing feedback wont help against a superlategame bl infestor army comp because the hightemplars cant reach the infestors in the first place(due to broodlings) and feedbacking a couple of infestors wont change the outcome of the fight. also it will most certainly create new problems for terrans in tvp due to collosus range + observers, protoss could just keep terran's army at bay while feedbacking all their ghosts..
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
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