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On November 09 2012 13:14 Carnate wrote:
It took about two years before Zergs really started massing infestors. We should give the other races a similar amount of time to come up with their own solution.
Like when we gave Zergs time to come up with a solution to mass ghosts amirite? oh wait...
On November 09 2012 13:04 President Dead wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 10:11 Rui.S wrote:On November 09 2012 07:59 meltingmykohchoo wrote:On November 08 2012 18:40 Fuzer wrote:
Change infested terran egg to light armor and give it same amount of hp as infested terran intself instead of 100, so its actually usefull to focus eggs before they spawn.
Make the infestor size smaller so I can emp / 8 of them with 1 EMP instead of 3. you're complaining that you can't snipe 3 enemy spell casters w/ 1 spell instead of 8?... emp doesn't do any damage to the infestors... 1 fungal on your ghosts and gg 12 ghosts. And why did you allow your Ghosts to be fungaled? PS, Is this thread an exception to balance discussion? Much of this thread is against the rules of TL.
So Zergs should be able to win if they land 1 fungal out of 25 infestors?
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I think they should just increase the energy cost of infested terrans. I just read the the thread and no one has even suggested that I wonder why...
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-Make Fungal Growth not immobilize units but slow their movement
-Make infestor 3 supply instead of 2
-Give Infested Terran eggs the same amount of HP as Infested Terran its
-The fungal becomes a projectile
Do these 4 things and increase infestor hp by 20-30 so they stay a hardier unit?
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It seems 90% of the sc2 community have nothing else to care in their lifes really sad. Just continue this whine, sc2 will never die because there will always be people who have fun playing this game. But you guys are just behaving like tards, you´re killing sc2.
User was warned for this post
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i think it's better to up the counter of infestors than nerf the infestor
some ideas :
-zvt : the EMP of ghost should damage the summoned unit like infested terran
-zvp : increase the range of feedback ?
what do you think of this ?
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On November 09 2012 20:25 benKrO71 wrote:
i think it's better to up the counter of infestors than nerf the infestor
some ideas :
-zvt : the EMP of ghost should damage the summoned unit like infested terran
-zvp : increase the range of feedback ?
what do you think of this ?
Increasing range of feedback without buffing snipe / EMP would make TvP a lot harder.
High range feedback + Colossus range + observer = super camp contain on Terran.
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hm, I still like the idea of making fungal a positional spell the most. Make fungal hit an area like storm and in that area units are slowed and take damage.
I think it would be at least worth to try that on a test map, it could make for a more dynamic game where Zerg sets up fungal fields and the opponent has to find ways around it or wait for the fungal to run out but then has to be scared of another cast by another infestor.
But the stun+damage has to go, it's just bad design.
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Turning fungal into storm is interesting, maybe less damage but with a slow so it's still differentiated enough to make it worthwhile. The last thing we want is all the spellcasters becoming more identical. I feel like that + IT eggs having the same health as an IT would be an interesting test, to see what changes. Right now, the egg-hatching is almost pointless as you can barely kill any before they hatch anyway, so it's not a particular disadvantage.
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On November 09 2012 20:15 SirisH wrote:
It seems 90% of the sc2 community have nothing else to care in their lifes really sad. Just continue this whine, sc2 will never die because there will always be people who have fun playing this game. But you guys are just behaving like tards, you´re killing sc2.
I'm sorry but everyone is acknowledging that infestors right now are just a bad unit to have in the game. The fact that every other zerg unit has to suck in order for it to be fair is a dynamic nobody likes, not even pro zerg players. You can continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend it's fine but don't blame other people when they don't feel like doing so.
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If EMP and Storm can affect your own units, I don't see why Fungal shouldn't.
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On November 09 2012 21:34 Fragile51 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 20:15 SirisH wrote:
It seems 90% of the sc2 community have nothing else to care in their lifes really sad. Just continue this whine, sc2 will never die because there will always be people who have fun playing this game. But you guys are just behaving like tards, you´re killing sc2. I'm sorry but everyone is acknowledging that infestors right now are just a bad unit to have in the game. The fact that every other zerg unit has to suck in order for it to be fair is a dynamic nobody likes, not even pro zerg players. You can continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend it's fine but don't blame other people when they don't feel like doing so.
Why are people even pretending this? The only bad Zerg unit is the Hydralisk...
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I see so many changes to infestors, while the unit is needed due to terrible design on other aspects.
Why do we focus on the infestor, if we should focus on the problems that make the infestor so important. Such as banelings losing a lot of power when they meet someone who splits (and you got no infestor to stop them from running and killing 90% ofthe banelings for free)
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On November 09 2012 21:38 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:34 Fragile51 wrote:On November 09 2012 20:15 SirisH wrote:
It seems 90% of the sc2 community have nothing else to care in their lifes really sad. Just continue this whine, sc2 will never die because there will always be people who have fun playing this game. But you guys are just behaving like tards, you´re killing sc2. I'm sorry but everyone is acknowledging that infestors right now are just a bad unit to have in the game. The fact that every other zerg unit has to suck in order for it to be fair is a dynamic nobody likes, not even pro zerg players. You can continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend it's fine but don't blame other people when they don't feel like doing so. Why are people even pretending this? The only bad Zerg unit is the Hydralisk...
1. Corruptors - Situational unit, only good vs mass air (who does that nowadays) and for broods.
2. Hydra's - No need to explain that
3. Ultralisks - Terrible terrible dama... pathing I mean.
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What if they made it so fungal only roots ground units? It would still damage air units, but wouldn't root them. The biggest problem with fungal isn't that it hurts air units, but that if one fungal lands on a clump then it's pretty much guaranteed to die to the chain fungal.
You could make it so transports can't load/unload while fungalled if that ends up being a problem.
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On November 09 2012 21:55 Aelonius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:38 TheDwf wrote:On November 09 2012 21:34 Fragile51 wrote:On November 09 2012 20:15 SirisH wrote:
It seems 90% of the sc2 community have nothing else to care in their lifes really sad. Just continue this whine, sc2 will never die because there will always be people who have fun playing this game. But you guys are just behaving like tards, you´re killing sc2. I'm sorry but everyone is acknowledging that infestors right now are just a bad unit to have in the game. The fact that every other zerg unit has to suck in order for it to be fair is a dynamic nobody likes, not even pro zerg players. You can continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend it's fine but don't blame other people when they don't feel like doing so. Why are people even pretending this? The only bad Zerg unit is the Hydralisk... 1. Corruptors - Situational unit, only good vs mass air (who does that nowadays) and for broods. 2. Hydra's - No need to explain that 3. Ultralisks - Terrible terrible dama... pathing I mean.
1 - Corruptors are good against colossi too, needed against vikings (not mass air, just vikings to protect your BLs and they can win you t he game just camping starports), and anyways you need them. Useless ? Really ?
2 - Yes, the problem is mostly how the infestor takes entirely its role while also having AoE CC. Hydras should cost lower, and have more mobility off-creep, and should be more cost effective as a core unit than infestors, while infestors remain there to be able to protect your zerg army with fungals.
3 - Meh they work doing tech switches against terran. Most races have some T3 unit that doesn't see much use tho, and the ultralisk is actually the only one that pop out from time to time.
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On November 09 2012 21:53 Aelonius wrote:
I see so many changes to infestors, while the unit is needed due to terrible design on other aspects.
Why do we focus on the infestor, if we should focus on the problems that make the infestor so important. Such as banelings losing a lot of power when they meet someone who splits (and you got no infestor to stop them from running and killing 90% ofthe banelings for free)
I would say the main problem is not that people can split against Banelings, but rather the huge difference of efficiency between Zerg ground units on creep and Zerg ground units off creep (a fight in which the Zerg would have poorly traded off creep can be an overwhelming victory on creep). Since the Queen patch you pretty much always fight on creep in TvZ, which drastically changes the outcome of the fights. Even Fungal is affected by creep because you have more time to split/react against an Infestor coming at 2.25 movespeed than against a 2.925 movespeed Infestor.
On November 09 2012 21:55 Aelonius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:38 TheDwf wrote:On November 09 2012 21:34 Fragile51 wrote:On November 09 2012 20:15 SirisH wrote:
It seems 90% of the sc2 community have nothing else to care in their lifes really sad. Just continue this whine, sc2 will never die because there will always be people who have fun playing this game. But you guys are just behaving like tards, you´re killing sc2. I'm sorry but everyone is acknowledging that infestors right now are just a bad unit to have in the game. The fact that every other zerg unit has to suck in order for it to be fair is a dynamic nobody likes, not even pro zerg players. You can continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend it's fine but don't blame other people when they don't feel like doing so. Why are people even pretending this? The only bad Zerg unit is the Hydralisk... 1. Corruptors - Situational unit, only good vs mass air (who does that nowadays) and for broods. 2. Hydra's - No need to explain that 3. Ultralisks - Terrible terrible dama... pathing I mean.
Neither Corruptors nor Ultralisks (at least against Terran) are bad.
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On November 09 2012 21:38 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:34 Fragile51 wrote:On November 09 2012 20:15 SirisH wrote:
It seems 90% of the sc2 community have nothing else to care in their lifes really sad. Just continue this whine, sc2 will never die because there will always be people who have fun playing this game. But you guys are just behaving like tards, you´re killing sc2. I'm sorry but everyone is acknowledging that infestors right now are just a bad unit to have in the game. The fact that every other zerg unit has to suck in order for it to be fair is a dynamic nobody likes, not even pro zerg players. You can continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend it's fine but don't blame other people when they don't feel like doing so. Why are people even pretending this? The only bad Zerg unit is the Hydralisk...
Eh..no. All units, and i do mean all units for zerg aside from the infestor are very specialised and situational. The hydralisk probably more so then any other unit in the game. Infestors are the only units that can deal with literally any threat present in the game given that they have enough energy. That's it's only limiting factor. Not the kind of composition the other guy has, it's purely limited by available energy. How do you compensate for that? By making more infestors. Roaches become progressively worse as you get more of them. Zerglings as well, as they start getting in eachothers way. This is even more so true for ultralisks. For broodlords you leave yourself vulnerable to air units. For mutalisks you sacrifice power in head on engagements for harassment potential. I could go on. Nerf the infestor and you can start buffing hydralisks to compensate, giving more choice to zerg but also forcing them to actually adjust their unit comp to what the other guy is doing, instead of just getting more infestors.
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On November 09 2012 22:08 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:53 Aelonius wrote:
I see so many changes to infestors, while the unit is needed due to terrible design on other aspects.
Why do we focus on the infestor, if we should focus on the problems that make the infestor so important. Such as banelings losing a lot of power when they meet someone who splits (and you got no infestor to stop them from running and killing 90% ofthe banelings for free) I would say the main problem is not that people can split against Banelings, but rather the huge difference of efficiency between Zerg ground units on creep and Zerg ground units off creep (a fight in which the Zerg would have poorly traded off creep can be an overwhelming victory on creep). Since the Queen patch you pretty much always fight on creep in TvZ, which drastically changes the outcome of the fights. Even Fungal is affected by creep because you have more time to split/react against an Infestor coming at 2.25 movespeed than against a 2.925 movespeed Infestor. Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:55 Aelonius wrote:On November 09 2012 21:38 TheDwf wrote:On November 09 2012 21:34 Fragile51 wrote:On November 09 2012 20:15 SirisH wrote:
It seems 90% of the sc2 community have nothing else to care in their lifes really sad. Just continue this whine, sc2 will never die because there will always be people who have fun playing this game. But you guys are just behaving like tards, you´re killing sc2. I'm sorry but everyone is acknowledging that infestors right now are just a bad unit to have in the game. The fact that every other zerg unit has to suck in order for it to be fair is a dynamic nobody likes, not even pro zerg players. You can continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend it's fine but don't blame other people when they don't feel like doing so. Why are people even pretending this? The only bad Zerg unit is the Hydralisk... 1. Corruptors - Situational unit, only good vs mass air (who does that nowadays) and for broods. 2. Hydra's - No need to explain that 3. Ultralisks - Terrible terrible dama... pathing I mean. Neither Corruptors nor Ultralisks (at least against Terran) are bad.
out of vikings, phoenixes, corruptors the last ones are the worst.
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On November 09 2012 21:38 Dialogue wrote:
If EMP and Storm can affect your own units, I don't see why Fungal shouldn't.
zerg has only melee and low range units. that's why you can't make their aoe spell damage their own units.
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EPT
