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On October 24 2012 18:07 Lylat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 17:59 Imbu wrote:On October 24 2012 17:55 Tailss wrote:
If you were able to spectate other people in client, wouldnt that hurt streaming a lot? That is a potential problem, but if they implemented something similar to League of Legend's system I don't imagine it hurting the streams that much. In LoL, you can spectate people that are (in SC2) mutual friends with you. Additionally, Riot generates a series of "high level" games that people can spectate. Thus, unless you are friends with TLO for example, you wouldn't be able to consistently watch his games, and so instead would go to his stream to both see his play first hand and listen to the music that he enjoys (sick playlist). Well in that case it becomes useless imo, because most people don't have pro friends, and I don't see the point of watching your non pro friends playing (except for the fun maybe)..
It is actually a very useful feature in DOTA 2.
Let's say that you want to learn a new hero, Dark Seer for example. You can read guides and such, you can practice with him, but if you like you can also watch live games of people playing that character. Watch a few games (with 5 minute time delay of course) and see what more experienced players are actually doing with him, awesome!
There's obviously also the ability to watch pro tournaments from within the client itself, even buying tickets and team pennants from inside the game. Way better than watching a stream on Twitch, even though that's also generally made as a free alternative to what's in the DOTA 2 client.  Paying to watch from within the game client (complete with commentary) is so much better than paying extra for a 1080p stream.
Back on SC2, let's say that you're a gold level Protoss who wants to advance to platinum and then diamond. Watching pro streams is useful, but you feel it might also help to see how "normal" people at those levels are playing. Well, in-game viewing would be a great learning tool for this. Rather than going to a website to dig around for uploaded replays you can instead find a game in progress filtered by league and maybe even matchup (ie - I want to watch a diamond level PvT).
It is a good for both learning and for entertainment. I think it would only be a positive feature for SC2 if it could be implemented.
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A SC2 is a boring game
B SOLUTION ? give the game more fun mechanics like BW had.
C Problem solved SIMPLE
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On October 24 2012 18:40 dragonsuper wrote:
A SC2 is a boring game
B SOLUTION ? give the game more fun mechanics like BW had.
C Problem solved SIMPLE
You are useless, if you don't have fun playing sc2 or watching sc2, what are you still doing here?
Go on, scram!
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If they"re going to allow random people to spectate others they should make sure that under no circustances it starts lagging on the players end.
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On October 24 2012 18:44 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 18:40 dragonsuper wrote:
A SC2 is a boring game
B SOLUTION ? give the game more fun mechanics like BW had.
C Problem solved SIMPLE You are useless, if you don't have fun playing sc2 or watching sc2, what are you still doing here? Go on, scram!
It was a POLL , i voted other and i told my opinion.
I am already here because i still have the hope that maybe this boring game will be changed.
Meanwhile i play LOL.
And btw ALL the issues we are discussing these days are old to me because i told them here on TL.net over 2 years ago.
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More units to help with map control for protoss so i dont have to move around the mpa with a deathball and the ability to join tournaments via bnet
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Simplified Custom games area with individually named games. (Helps map makers too) this is pretty important I would like to add if I could a subnote in there for custom match making that is unranked such as I want a PvT on Entombed Valley and it will such for a terran player who wants a game or something to that effect.
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I voted for other. I think the most important thing are the little things they can change to make you feel like SC2 isn*t such a lonely game. Maybe more 2v2 3v3 4v4 achievements, separate ladder for party teams(so I don*t get crushed when playing them while random), name change so you can be on the same team as your friends, better maps, nice HOTS units( not removing units because they are not yet balanced). Anyway, I realise this isn*t one thing but do things so the casual player doesn*t feel so alone in the game. Stats would also help, I*m ok with seeing 2 wins 15 losses PvZ but not knowing how much I Iose really sucks, makes me not want to play ladder. I really want to play ladder but every time it just feels like you are in this weird silent game and you get plus or minus whatever points and that*s it. I don*t care about points and leagues, I care about having fun with SC2 whether it is ladder, custom or whatever games. I LOVE the pro scene and watch it A LOT but I know I don*t want to be a gamer, I just want to have some fun with SC2 and watch the pros do the amazing micro things. If I could have fun with SC2 it would be just awesome. Love TEAM LIQUID!
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Hi Sheth! :-)
None of the items on the list are "must haves" for me.
I'd like, in order of priority:
1) An inclusive, social, Starcraft 2 team league for all skill levels (akin to joining your local tennis club or something). We don't need Blizzard to make this for us, but they could do it.
2) More training tools vs AI, like blink micro, or practising against an AI opponent who will do a particular timing attack like 2 port banshee, 4 gate, 7 gate blink, etc. This is better done by the community as the game evolves, but perhaps Blizzard can make it easy for us in some way, eg a tool to design, save and share build orders for the AI to execute against me.
3) Ladder maps to be drawn from regular community engagement. eg 1 new Crux map, 1 new ESV map every season.
4) Separate MMR for each race in 1v1.
5) Nerf forge expand PvZ because I think it makes boring games. Buff something else to make it balanced. Perhaps mothership core achieves this already.
6) Easy clan nametags
7) When ladder matches me up against someone, it would be fun to know if I've played them before, and possible what the record is. eg rather than RoboBoogie vs Sheth (strongly favoured), it might say RoboBoogie (0) vs Sheth (8). Something to feel more connected to others on BNET.
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My (unrealistic) wishlist. Wanted to make a new thread but too many of these popping up lately. So I post them here instead.
CHAT CHANNELS
- The user list needs to be more compact. The rows should not be much larger than the font size for the player name. Otherwise the user list becomes very uncomfortable to use for channels with more than 10 users.
- Option to display timestamp for messages (you have a cog wheel in the top right already). Alternatively display the timestamp when hovering over the text. Uses: Need to track time on messages like "brb in 10 minutes" and need timestamp in screenshots of chats as proof in online tournaments.
- There need to be owners, moderators and possibly other privileged users of chat channels. Big public or tournament-organizing channels are not possible otherwise.
- Have internal chat rooms with a whitelist or password protection
- Have something like a chat-centric mode where the chat channel is the main element of the UI (and not some popup that you have to tediously resize to an appropriate size)
LOADING SCREEN
- Resolve the breakdown of Random players on the loading screen. There is no situation where the concealment of this leads to a better, more strategic game.
- Mark possible spawn position combinations on the map OR mark them ingame on the minimap.
PROFILES
- Allow name changes in reasonable, regular intervals. Not being able to play with your correct name (due to a clanchange) is a unnecessary burden for players.
- Allow profiles to be customized with user content (gallery, tweets, VODs, live streams, replay of the week). Possibly charge money from user for this (Blizzard provides the space, checks that content is appropriate and charging for it to stop trolls from uploading trash). Makes it possible to enhance visibility of players and makes profiles more valuable which other people actually want to see.
- Allow to create "clubs", e.g. TeamLiquid fanclub, Thorzain fanclub, Sad Zealot fanclub. Can subscribe to news, tweets, facebook statuses, replays that can be placed in various places in the UI. Have club chat channels. Encourages people to gather up and hang around.
- Allow to browse profiles from other regions. Allow to view ladders (especially the Grandmaster ladder) from other regions. Makes the battle.net more connected. Hey, MarineKing is in the same battle.net as I am, let's check his profile and see how he is doing!
CUSTOM GAMES
- Host game should be the default setting or make it more distinguishable to joining a game. Worst case is that you want to host a game and accidently join a game instead where the countdown starts instantly. This never happened before 1.5 and in other games.
- Being able to cancel game on countdown. The only way to do it now is to logout from Battle.net during the countdown. It is frustrating but its a lot worse to quit after the game starts.
- Indicator for ping (latency and latency variance) to host. If it is not there, players will instead make up a crude estimate of it.
- Allow to choose the region for the server (US West, US East, Europe, ...). With the introduction of global play, something like this will be integrated. There will probably be an automatic selection, but let the players override it if necessary. Especially the ability to choose between US West and US East with the introduction of SC2.
TOURNAMENT INTEGRATION
- Allow tournament hosts to organize their tournament via Battle.net. They upload their ruleset to a format recognized by Battle.net. Then, brackets can be viewed ingame. Support various map selection modes and do the map selection process via the UI.
- Game outcome can be automatically determined and uploaded back to the tournament host, replays are automatically saved.
- Eligibility constraints can be determined by the tournament host.
- Also, Blizzard organizes its own tournaments.
- Allow not only cups, but also full-fledged leagues. 1on1 sunday tournaments! Bronze League tournament! Silver League tournaments! Clan leagues!
- This will increase the number of players playing in tournaments, adding exciting thrills outside of the ladder play. It helps tournament organizers that support your game.
- Some kind of tournament tracker. Players just need to use the tournament tracker and sign-up for tournaments ingame.
ARCADE/MAPMAKING
- Open game list with filter options. The arcade system is a good idea but it needs to be complemented with a simple open game list! Reintroduce gamenames (make games joinable by invite or gamename).
- While the flexibility is great, common tasks as modifying abilities, changing unit stats or adding units to a building should be as easy in the WC3 editor.
- Should be able to easily publish a map for every region.
- Decouple your matchmaking services from SC2 and allow it for arcade games as well (what would have happened if DotA had its own integrated ladder in WC3?).
- Documentation.
WATCHING AND CONTENT
- Building tab, etc.
- Being able to observe ingame (a la HLTV, WTV, DotA2). Ingame advertising to create an incentive for players and tournament organizers to provide their games to the public. "This marine split is presented to you by Mareeen Insurances".
- Starcraft Radio. Hey, let's listen to the last State Of The Game episode while I ladder. Of course, this is already possible with the audio player in the background, but Battle.net could be the platform for people that never knew about this in the first place.
- Place Twitch/own3d streams where appropriate.
- Export game status data! In The International, you can check on the website of game status (Heroes and equipment) while the game is going on. Allow this for SC2. Tournament organizers can find crazy new ideas with it to enhance the stream experience with various overlays.
- Have an additional site to find the "Highlight Match Of The Day" and current games. Then you need only one click to follow live action.
- Can do a lot of stuff combined with the point TOURNAMENT INTEGRATION.
REPLAYS
- Don't require you to logout of Battle.net to watch replays of an older version.
- Give replays a better default naming scheme (NOT "Daybreak LE (341))
- Integrate basic replay management (see SC2Gears).
- It would be cool if some stats could be exported from replays (basically only actions are recorded right now). The community could built very cool stuff from it. Helps people to really dig into replays and analyze their builds.
- Can have audio tracks associated with replays. When I skip in the replay, it skips to the corresponding audio part.
- Replay Cloud. Make it easy to share replays or make replays public. Why not have a replay of the week section while we are at it?
BATTLE.NET FORUMS
- Separate forums by language, not by region and language. Make language switch possible without editing the URL.
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There's a couple of things that I would LOVE to be added to this game, some were listed and some weren't. (Listed in order of importance)
#1: Rewards For Laddering - At the moment there is no incentive to play on the ladder other than to 'get better'. Even trying to get a promotion is based upon your willpower. All you get at the end of a day is a one-off message that says 'Congratulations, you have been promoted'. This game is very hard to enjoy when you have to motivate yourself to play at all. A good system to add to give some purpose to the endless and lonely ladder grind that is today is to add a visual reward system. Basically, whenever you win, your ladder points that you earned will also be added to your 'BB - Blizzard Balance' (we'll call it that for now), but it is NOT deducted when you lose. The visual possibilities are endless. For Terran, imagine having flame decals on the side of each one, or having a smiley face on top of your Planetary Fortress while it massacres your enemies Marines? For Zerg you could have a fireworks effect when you inject with your Queen, or the SC1 build animation for your structures? For Protoss there's changes to Chrono Boosts, a knife that materialises when you transform a gateway into a Warp Gate and other things. Maybe the hellion decal could change from orange to blue when Pre-Igniter is done? Just a suggestion because it might be unfair to see blue-flame done when they haven't engaged yet.
Colours could be just as good, but in order to do this Blizzard would have to make 1v1's have one green and one yellow, for example. Then other colours could be added in, in case you have tinted green creep and enemy green zerglings walk onto it. This would make it very confusing, but if that factor was removed then you could have all sorts of colour schemes. One particular one I had in mind was having tinted creep, so you could have dark navy blue or deep red. All of these are simple changes that add visual variety to the game, without making it impossible to determine if that is a marine or a marauder wearing an overly massive top hat with a cape and walking stick.
#2: Free to Play Multiplayer - To enable friends to get involved without shelling out 60$ for some 'elite' game they have heard of and looks confusing to them. Not sure how it would be implemented (only able to play one race? Limiting units would be stupid)
Outcomes: Attracts a MASSIVE playerbase which will fuel pro gamers and generate interest, which equals more sales. Good for Blizzard and sponsors financially.
#3: Balancing issues - Giving a serious look at each and every single unit in the game. Apply buffs/nerfs so that NO unit is treated as 'phased' or generally bad. Examples of units that aren't used unless in very specific situations; Ravens, Hydralisks, Reapers (being reworked though), Carriers, and Void Rays for example. Some units that could use some reworking; check ItWhoSpeaks' articles on battle.net forums and reddit about tuning the current balance state. Simply changing units will add spice to this already stale game. Sure, 2 or 3 units are being added to each race in HotS, but compared to the other 20+ existing units, this seems very insignificant. If, say, WoL got patched tomorrow where Siege Tanks had less supply and could overkill (used very fast missiles), Terran mech would be significantly changed so that more tanks were utilised, and positional play was dominant again, instead of the more common Terran deathball being seen recently.
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I JUST REALISED HOW GOOD THIS GAME COULD BE FOR CASUALS
and people know what they want
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There is one issue with this poll imo, the people who are on TL in general are very esports oriented hence it is obvious replay function with friends is on top. However for me, and also possibly the 4/5 people that quit playing the game from what I could get from the reddit thread sees the big problem to CASUAL players is that, there is no way to play casually, with friends, have fun, find new fun exciting UMS maps. Creating some kind of lobby system and chat system functionality tied to it, and make games searchable, where you see number of people in lobbies, can make lobby names can chat around before game starts with randoms, make friends etc would be what we need. Right now Battle.net just feels dead when you log in, there is a ladder button and that's about it.
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Kinda sad to see how far down the latency issues are.
Yeah all that other stuff would help fans and casuals, but at the end of the day if anyone in the world could play on the korean server with decent latency eu/na meta wouldn't always be weeks, and sometimes months, behind the korean meta which would make foreigner vs korean a lot closer.
The fact that a game released in 2010 has a worse netcode/latency than a lot of games released before that (including bw) is really fucking sad and just shows how completely talent free some people at blizzard are.
I don't think we need tons casuals playing this game, that may help blizzard make money and whatnot, but for the game as an esports it's actually better that a lot of people don't play but still enjoy watching. Because eventually a lot of westerners will get tired of LoL, and there is almost no one watching competitive LoL who doesn't play, star 2 will never have that issue.
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Well I think the most important change is to get a larger team working on it.
Edit: Im serious
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On October 24 2012 19:08 Lorch wrote:
I don't think we need tons casuals playing this game, that may help blizzard make money and whatnot, but for the game as an esports it's actually better that a lot of people don't play but still enjoy watching.
Why is that so, I mean sure in a perfect world it might be so. However, at least for me playing the game, even casually makes it more exciting to watch the game, and it makes perfect sense that being a dedicated player makes for a more dedicated viewer. Being a player does not mean one is not going to watch the game. But, not being a player does increase your chances of stopping to watch the game after some time which is true for many of us. What is the problem with casuals, I know noone who plays the game casuallyish anymore. However, back in the sc1 days most players even in the long run were casuals enjoying the game in public lobbies having fun chatting and ranting at each other.
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Other - fix protoss. It's broke as shit and the whole games broken around it to compensate for it's below par mechanics and units.
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On October 24 2012 19:16 Yttrasil wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 19:08 Lorch wrote:
I don't think we need tons casuals playing this game, that may help blizzard make money and whatnot, but for the game as an esports it's actually better that a lot of people don't play but still enjoy watching. Why is that so, I mean sure in a perfect world it might be so. However, at least for me playing the game, even casually makes it more exciting to watch the game, and it makes perfect sense that being a dedicated player makes for a more dedicated viewer. Being a player does not mean one is not going watch the game. But, not being a player does increase your chances of stopping to watch the game after some time which is true for many of us. What is the problem with casuals, I know noone who plays the game casuallyish anymore. However, back in the sc1 days most players even in the long run were casuals enjoying the game in public lobbies having fun chatting and ranting at each other.
I'm not saying casuals don't help, just that this is not something our scene needs to stay healthy. Of course these are things that would help and no one can argue that a higher player base would harm the game, but tbh I would much rather have them focus on issues that actually affect pro gamers before they worry about casuals.
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free to play multiplayer would help a ton but still i am missing an option. None.
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"If was to ask costumers what they wanted, they would say faster horses" - Ford.
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EPT
