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felisconcolori
United States6169 Posts
But then Jessica was recording the call and releases the transcript? That transcript is.... ugh. Nuts? Insane? Drama worthy of a classical soap opera? I don't know. I don't think it helps anyone on any side - no one really comes off good. Boxer comes out probably best of anyone, but... he's Boxer. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
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Elurie
4716 Posts
Reminds me of an old WoW guild actually. | ||
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Zane
Romania3916 Posts
Hey if I was MMA I would've wanted a ride too. Alicia can take the bus though. | ||
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tMomiji
United States1115 Posts
Take from that what you will, I guess... | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
lulz | ||
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LastKarma
Romania11 Posts
I have someone close with the similar symptoms but diagnozed and under treatment. The signs were there for a long time, and they started just like this. Sadly the players got a lot more hurt than the management in this. It really looks like SlayerS was just something started on the premise "how hard can this be? and when in doubt we can always wing it. If stuff gets ugly, we can just deny it until it's our way, and people will believe it because we'll also believe our truth". RIP SlayerS  | ||
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ValM
India408 Posts
But alas the way power corrupts a thriving empire. Boxer did go to SKT and I dunno what the future of MMA is anyways. I dont have any sort of opinion for any of the people involved except remorse for lack of foresight on the part of the management but eventually everyone has been a victim of circumstance. My best wishes to the emperor and of course still my favorite terran player in the world the once heir apparent MMA... | ||
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catleaves
United States506 Posts
the act of recording a phone call and using that to put the fear on people with no power... what a pathetic way of living. if i didn't recognize any of the people involved in the recording, and i were randomly reading this by chance on a news source... boxer, the bystander, jessica, a person i hope to never associate with in real life, crank, boy, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger, man up, ... no one has their shit together. | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
On October 24 2012 04:01 leveller wrote: Again, wtf about Manager "J"? Why isn't his name getting dragged through the mud, why doesn't he have to answer any interviews, why don't Jessica and the players blame him more (because he seems like the obviously biggest reason for this whole shitfest - lied to both mma and jessica about sponsors, and instead of getting deals for the team he masturbates in the cleaning closet all day? wtf is going on with this guy and why isnt his place more scrutinized? Well, I think everyone pretty much agrees that he is guilty as ****. Incidents involving him apparently happened months ago and he isn't really a known figure in the SC2 community, so people are focusing their attention on the drama (Jessica vs. her players) at the moment. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
I think it was clear that this information was settled. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
1) CranK was never under contract ergo he could leave any time for any reason. His loyalty to the team compelled him to stay to try and fix things. The phone-call verifies that he made attempts to help fix the team and Boxer admits this. He did not breach contract because there was no contract to begin with. 2) The phonecall indicates that CranK was not the one who claimed the neck injury as an excuse, this was Jessicas doing. Choi: I am looking through the conversation right now and I don't see anything like that. You said 'say that you are taking a break due to your neck disc', so I said 'okay, I'll try my best to stop silly rumours from going around'. Then you said 'there is a new player joining us anyways so I plan on sending out that info too.' Jessica : Yeah. I told you to say to people that you are taking a break due to the neck disc This is highly confusing and muddies the water significantly. It is a fact that CranK suffers neck problems, that is medically verified and has been an issue since his time in SKT1. 3) CranK has been accused of lying and being "whiny". On the first point, reading the conversation, it does not appear that he did lie to get out of the team, in fact Jessica instructed him to lie to save face for the team. This is all in the phone-call transcript so it's pretty hard to argue against. On the subject of being "whiny", this is little more than ad-hominem which is lets be honest, what this entire thing seems to be. An awful lot of deflection going on here. The spotlight is on CranK when if you look closely his only crime seems to have been high expectations and speaking ill of his elders. Where are the questions about SlayerS sponsors disappearing? Where are the questions about SlayerS finances? Why do teams disband? It's not because they lose a few players,teams endure that. Teams usually disband because they run out of money, yet we've heard not a peep about that. Why is Jessica so evasive about her and Boxers responsibility? One final thing. Let's talk about entitlement. It's easy to label players as spoiled brats if you take the view that it's a privilege to be on a team. I don't take that view. I believe it's a privilege for a team to own a player of high calibre. Players shouldn't have to feel grateful or privileged to be on a team anymore than employees should feel grateful and privileged to have a job. They earned it, they deserve it. What do players like CranK have to be grateful for? A bed and a bowl of rice? None of you would be so why do some of you view players as charity volunteers who should accept no pay and poor conditions just for the chance to play videogames to the point where you cause yourself permanent physical damage? Some claim players have an unrealistic view of how things should be and that they are entitled to more than they really deserve. As a business owner who pays his employees fairly and does not take on volunteers, I find this whole idea alien. Employees have certain responsibilities, they are both protected by and bound by a contract and that establishs the quid pro quo between the team owner and the player. That is how you build a proper working relationship and how you keep your company running. | ||
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Imperfect1987
United States558 Posts
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BriMikon
United States82 Posts
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On October 24 2012 05:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: I think it's clear that this entire debacle is a classic case of character assassination. Some people have bought into it hook, line and sinker. Here's a few things to remember. This is just my personal opinion, just as everything Scoots says on LO3 doesn't necessarily represent the "EG view". 1) CranK was never under contract ergo he could leave any time for any reason. His loyalty to the team compelled him to stay to try and fix things. The phone-call verifies that he made attempts to help fix the team and Boxer admits this. He did not breach contract because there was no contract to begin with. 2) The phonecall indicates that CranK was not the one who claimed the neck injury as an excuse, this was Jessicas doing. This is highly confusing and muddies the water significantly. It is a fact that CranK suffers neck problems, that is medically verified and has been an issue since his time in SKT1. 3) CranK has been accused of lying and being "whiny". On the first point, reading the conversation, it does not appear that he did lie to get out of the team, in fact Jessica instructed him to lie to save face for the team. This is all in the phone-call transcript so it's pretty hard to argue against. On the subject of being "whiny", this is little more than ad-hominem which is lets be honest, what this entire thing seems to be. An awful lot of deflection going on here. The spotlight is on CranK when if you look closely his only crime seems to have been high expectations and speaking ill of his elders. Where are the questions about SlayerS sponsors disappearing? Where are the questions about SlayerS finances? Why do teams disband? It's not because they lose a few players,teams endure that. Teams usually disband because they run out of money, yet we've heard not a peep about that. Why is Jessica so evasive about her and Boxers responsibility? One final thing. Let's talk about entitlement. It's easy to label players as spoiled brats if you take the view that it's a privilege to be on a team. I don't take that view. I believe it's a privilege for a team to own a player of high calibre. Players shouldn't have to feel grateful or privileged to be on a team anymore than employees should feel grateful and privileged to have a job. They earned it, they deserve it. What do players like CranK have to be grateful for? A bed and a bowl of rice? None of you would be so why do some of you view players as charity volunteers who should accept no pay and poor conditions just for the chance to play videogames to the point where you cause yourself permanent physical damage? Some claim players have an unrealistic view of how things should be and that they are entitled to more than they really deserve. As a business owner who pays his employees fairly and does not take on volunteers, I find this whole idea alien. Employees have certain responsibilities, they are both protected by and bound by a contract and that establishs the quid pro quo between the team owner and the player. That is how you build a proper working relationship and how you keep your company running. Its true. Jessica basically kept saying the same thing about the neck injury over and over. Crank was even like "why do you keep saying that?" Obviously the reason was that Jessica was recording it and the more you say something more believable it gets. She intended to release this recording from the very start. She most definitely does not have an archive of recordings, at least not like this. Which means from the moment she picked up the phone she was out for blood. Not very nice. She was basically hoping Crank would back himself into a corner but I dont see that happening here. And from the sounds of it Boxer kinda let him out as well. Prob not too happy about that. | ||
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th3_great
United Kingdom429 Posts
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Linxue
Sweden4 Posts
- It would be great if people coule be more objective toward everything and not just point blank say it is either one side or the others fault. - The SC2 scene is still relative new and the terms team and company do not go hand-in-hand yet, thus people are still experimenting with how to run the organisation. - The majority of players and managers are still relativly young and lack both the academic education and life experience of how to run and behave properly in an organisation. (the slayers incident is a perfect example with players rather young while the owners having the life experience and middle-management (manager J) with the academic knowlage in order to drive these parts away from each other). - The economy of the GOMTV SC2 teams cannot be compared with foreign SC2 teams or BW teams that have way more money, and despite having better economy, the BW teams don't pay all their players salary, take their B-teamers/practice partners for instance. Not saying that Slayers are an abusive team, but there are even foreigner teams that cannot meet up with payments or travel expenses, one example of this is the recent incident of the newly formed apeX eSports SC2 team. - Keep in mind that most of you guys posting strong opinions are from western countries and have another kind of upbringing than the East-asians. There's an extremly big cultural difference both in the everyday life and cooperate world, you are obligated to adress your elderly and your supperiors properly and it is expected that you follow rules as if they were the law and show extremly high loyalty to your family/compay. This is one point why the majority of Korean netziens are on Jessicas side (of course it helps to be Boxers fiance). As I stated earlier, the majority of players are young and they are keen to take in new ideas, with tons and tons of foreing events, these young players gets to interact with the western culture. Despite how we think it is free and liberating, the traditional East-asian thinking do see it as something rebelious and wrong. - eSport will not be destroyed by one act, and clearly not one act as such. Remembering back, the only thing that really hurt eSport and got players life-time banishment from the sociaty was from the sAviOr incident. This is just a tumble on the road, please don't overdramatise it, nothing huge should happen out from this event. - The word destructive does come up alot surrounding Jessica, I am not defending her as it would be subjective. But put it into perspective and think from her point of view when it comes to this incident. No matter who's fault it is that the organisation you build up with your own money is about to crumble, you would most likely be quiet upset and want to find some sort of refund/justice. As Boxer stated himself, instead of not getting anywhere, he took a few steps back career-wise which is rather big setback for someone like him and Jessica. Trying to destroy eSport on her way out you guys say, but she might (not that I said might) think she helps eSport by bringing down/reconstruct something she sees hinders the growth of eSport toward the right way. - As an owner of an organisation, would you not try to protect your organisation as well as possible, people have to understand that this is a game but if you take it to a professional level it is no longer just a friendly enviroment that you can chose to stay and go as you wish. This goes only for the contracted players as the non-contracted players are legaly not bound to any kind of organisation, it is every individuals own responsibility to read through and understand their contracts before signing it. And as far as I understand, there are nothing illeagal about the contracts, hence Jessica and Boxer have every single right to hold a player, sell/trade the specific player (despite the fact that Jessica did state that she wanted to help all players, even the contracted ones, although the specifics were not mentioned). - Also, with the life experience of Jessica, it is not that very strange she looks at the contracts and thinks that they are "kind", considering how contracts are constructed in the Korean entertainment buisneses. Take the example of SM Entertainment and their 13-year contracts that they have made with their employes, giving an extremly low starting salary and unfair profit distribution. Plus, if the contract is broken the employe has to pay twice the sum of their entire estimated income for the entire contract. Or that incident with former Super Junior member Han Geng where he was forced to perform despite running an extremly high fever. Considering that Jessica comes from such a background and is used to how the entertainment buisness handles things, one can probably understand why she feels the players of Slayers having a quiet good deal and not very strange that she expect Crank to be able to join for GSTL after been resting at home for a while (from what we know atleast). - In the entertainment world, especially in East-asia, if you go unoticed for a while you will get forgotten. Some kind of publicity, even if it is a bad one is still publicity, it gives you notice and people will get intressted in you, however good or bad you will get popular. It seems like Jessica tries to apply this very same method in the world of eSport, with the disbanding of Slayers as the the climax of this session. It has already given effect with countless of new supporters for both the side of Jessica/Boxer and the players of Slayers. Given time, even more will fall into fold and many of these players will get more fans and maybe even give them an opportunity to interact with new interessting teams that would otherwise not consider them as they might have gone by unnoticed. I don't chose any side because not all the facts have been given, I am not saying that people should shut up about their perspectives, I only hope that people could have a more open mind about the news and not starting a flaming war and blaming people when they don't have enough facts behind them. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On October 24 2012 05:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: + Show Spoiler + I think it's clear that this entire debacle is a classic case of character assassination. Some people have bought into it hook, line and sinker. Here's a few things to remember. This is just my personal opinion, just as everything Scoots says on LO3 doesn't necessarily represent the "EG view". 1) CranK was never under contract ergo he could leave any time for any reason. His loyalty to the team compelled him to stay to try and fix things. The phone-call verifies that he made attempts to help fix the team and Boxer admits this. He did not breach contract because there was no contract to begin with. 2) The phonecall indicates that CranK was not the one who claimed the neck injury as an excuse, this was Jessicas doing. Choi: I am looking through the conversation right now and I don't see anything like that. You said 'say that you are taking a break due to your neck disc', so I said 'okay, I'll try my best to stop silly rumours from going around'. Then you said 'there is a new player joining us anyways so I plan on sending out that info too.' Jessica : Yeah. I told you to say to people that you are taking a break due to the neck disc This is highly confusing and muddies the water significantly. It is a fact that CranK suffers neck problems, that is medically verified and has been an issue since his time in SKT1. 3) CranK has been accused of lying and being "whiny". On the first point, reading the conversation, it does not appear that he did lie to get out of the team, in fact Jessica instructed him to lie to save face for the team. This is all in the phone-call transcript so it's pretty hard to argue against. On the subject of being "whiny", this is little more than ad-hominem which is lets be honest, what this entire thing seems to be. An awful lot of deflection going on here. The spotlight is on CranK when if you look closely his only crime seems to have been high expectations and speaking ill of his elders. Where are the questions about SlayerS sponsors disappearing? Where are the questions about SlayerS finances? Why do teams disband? It's not because they lose a few players,teams endure that. Teams usually disband because they run out of money, yet we've heard not a peep about that. Why is Jessica so evasive about her and Boxers responsibility? One final thing. Let's talk about entitlement. It's easy to label players as spoiled brats if you take the view that it's a privilege to be on a team. I don't take that view. I believe it's a privilege for a team to own a player of high calibre. Players shouldn't have to feel grateful or privileged to be on a team anymore than employees should feel grateful and privileged to have a job. They earned it, they deserve it. What do players like CranK have to be grateful for? A bed and a bowl of rice? None of you would be so why do some of you view players as charity volunteers who should accept no pay and poor conditions just for the chance to play videogames to the point where you cause yourself permanent physical damage? Some claim players have an unrealistic view of how things should be and that they are entitled to more than they really deserve. As a business owner who pays his employees fairly and does not take on volunteers, I find this whole idea alien. Employees have certain responsibilities, they are both protected by and bound by a contract and that establishs the quid pro quo between the team owner and the player. That is how you build a proper working relationship and how you keep your company running. I agree. Doesn't matter who is right, how the team is been run is utterly idiotic. It's worse than how a bunch college kids runs a startup, and those folds by the thousands everyday. I'm just glad non of my employers ever act as incompetent or unprofessional. | ||
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mongmong
Korea (South)1389 Posts
On October 24 2012 05:09 Imperfect1987 wrote: I find it odd that people feel sorry for Boxer when he was a key figure in the death of the team. What kind of team leader goes to the house and just plays a MMO instead of SC2 in a progaming house (Jessica's own phone call statement confirms this)? Especially when the players are complaining about a poor environment (Everyone on the team but Jessica and Boxer claim this). He then has his girlfriend with no gaming experience and obvious control issues make all the calls in said gaming house. On top of that he just nonchalantly ditches the SlayerS house when the failures of him and his girlfriend are becoming apparent. He then hides while he watches several of the past players be burned by Jessica when they supposedly did the exact same thing Boxer did (abandon a poorly run team). There are quite some double standards going on here. What I get from this is Boxer is a coward who does not know how to lead and Jessica is a terrible manager who scapegoats everybody but the true culprits (Her and Boxer). He was taking a break. The company that owns MMO he was playing was the sponsor of slayers. It was jessica who suggested that boxer play the game while resting. | ||
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