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On October 23 2012 09:01 Benjamin99 wrote:
All this drama. The fact of the matter is in any organisation its the boss,director,project manager responsibility to keep its staff happy and in order and to provide workable atmosphere. If there is any problem with the staff its the boss job to fix it.
So if this was actually a company and I was in the board of directors I would fire Jessica faster then the speed of light. Its clearly for me that not only did she fail completely regarding managing the team but she is also trying to push away her responsibility and blame other factors for the disbandment of Slayers.
A team is only as good as its leader
Imagine if you fire her, and then she does this? I think the next step would be suing her. And yet she's actually the former owner of SlayerS. Amazing.
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On October 23 2012 09:02 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:00 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 08:52 LighT. wrote:On October 23 2012 08:49 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 08:48 Fenrax wrote:translation hero plz! Yes, please! Id translate but im on iphone T_T Google translate just gives me garbled junk...all I can pick out are random small phrases. Don't EVER use google translate or any online translate program for asian languages if it is more then random words. just 1 small thing can turn your whole sentence and make it something completely different.
-sob- I know, I know it doesn't work but I'm desperate to know what was said during this phone call...
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On October 23 2012 08:58 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 08:55 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 08:45 masterbreti wrote:
ok I just want to ask 1 thing and state another
Did anyone actually hear the tape, or just a transscript? I know a transcript was released in Korean, but it seems the tape isn't added.
And to be honest I have to side With Jessica/BoxeR/Cella
Crank and MMA have every reason to lie, there careers right now are in the balance, Jessica has no reason to lie, Jessica will contiune to make lots of money in acting and such, she doesn't have a reason to lie.
For people trusting MMA over Jessica, it is quite silly. People don't know MMA, they will believe MMA just because he is a player, and they are fans of his, which makes things rather bias.
It bothers me that the sc community can't look at things unbiased in this incident. People will take MMA's side even if he came out and sais he was guilty of everything, people would still say he is innocent. It's not about siding with Jessica or players. Both players and management are in the wrong. However, someone recognize that they are in the wrong and accept it, while the head of the team (Jessica) doesn't even admit her faults (bad management, seriously) that she did and try to blame all of the faults on one side, instead of accepting that she did something wrong too. I would be more sympathize toward her than this if she just admit that she did not communicate with her players that well and was complacent on J case. But she just blames everything on others and that make her looks childish and not trustworthy. So. Let's look at what actual punitive actions were filed against these people. Jessica: has to deal with being the person who dissolved slayers, has to void all her investments. Boxer: Has to void all his investments. Alicia / MMA / Crank: Nothing except bad press. Are you serious? If an employee lied and twisted his contract in the professional world and I was the boss I would sue their ass to oblivion and demand MONETARY reparations.
Um no. Jessica has her acting career and whatever she gets from SlayerS disbanding, like selling the house and computers and stuff. Boxer as SKT1, plus Jessica who will do whatever it takes to screw others over. Boxer is already famous enough. He's going to be the good guy no matter what happens (exaggeration)
Players will get bad press, and their eSports career will be over.
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Huh, here is the TL post about the 200K(actually it says 180k) sponsorship, also says the team sponsorship would be 270k~~ish soo.... Was the 270k in addition to boxers 180k sponsorship, are they completely seperate O_o.... not that pertinent, I still side with boxer/jessice.... the situation is altogether unfortunate....
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166525
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On October 23 2012 08:52 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 08:44 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 08:40 mongmong wrote:
MMA's statement is hard countered by Jessica.
It looks like the former coach Ryu won turned MMA's personal coach, and MMA was the one
responsible for paying Ryu won after he won GSL anaheim, but Ryu won only received a graphics card
worth $1000. So thats why Ryu won left slayers for woongjin Wait, you mean the team manager assigned a personal coach and then make him pay for it, while he does not have a chance to look for any or have any knowledge for sponsorship? Mind blown. Jessica should never ever manage any business again. when did i say the team manager assigned a personal coach? why are you making shit up? omfg ..... ok ill give a slighty more detailed explanation. MMA introduced coach Ryu won, who at the time was a close friend of MMA, to jessica. Jessica, MMA and Ryu met in person and coach Ryu was told by jessica that no salary would be paid by her to him since he is MMA's personal coach. Do you now understand??? It was MMA who introduced Ryu to jessica.
It does not matter who introduce coach Ryu to whom. It's a matter of allowing your player to get a personal coach without any 1.) contract or 2.) make sure that he will get paid. Moreover, MMA's performance increase due to coach Ryu's coaching would still benefit the teams in many way, such as fame and team league performance. If the team was not willing to pay him, then she should not allow MMA to have personal coach since the beginning. The decision to him had one was already a big mistake.
Now, I don't say that MMA was not wrong that he did not pay Coach Ryu. But it is just so amateurish from the Slayers management part to let this happen, instead of making sure that coach was rightfully compensated by the team because ,let's face it, the team benefits from coach Ryu coaching on MMA without holding any responsibility.
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Can anybody summarize what Crank & MMA have done that would be bad by western standards? Complaining about how the team is run, wanting more, wanting to go to a team that paid better -- those aren't things that really get you in trouble in US/Europe. We're kind of used to high-pressure athletes occasionally acting out like primadonnas too. And then mostly forgiving them afterward.
Other than disrespecting Boxer/Jessica, I'm not seeing much to the accusations here. Maybe MMA not paying Ryu if he was his personal coach? That seems more about the two of them than Slayers, then.
Not sure how J shows up and costs them all their sponsors either, but that kind of event can't be anybody's fault but management unless Crank/MMA were actively dissuading sponsors. I haven't seen any accusation of that.
I probably don't understand Korean culture enough to really get the drama here, but I'm ready to go watch Ax.Crank and EG.MMA start just playing SC2 again.
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On October 23 2012 09:02 ThePurist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:01 Kishin2 wrote:
Boxer is still the person that can potentially put everything at ease here. He already did. He grabbed the phone and talked it out with crank to come clean face to face.
Wait - you were able to read that??
...Could you possibly translate it?! -hopeful-
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On October 23 2012 09:01 Benjamin99 wrote:
All this drama. The fact of the matter is in any organisation its the boss,director,project manager responsibility to keep its staff happy and in order and to provide workable atmosphere. If there is any problem with the staff its the boss job to fix it.
So if this was actually a company and I was in the board of directors I would fire Jessica faster then the speed of light. Its clearly for me that not only did she fail completely regarding managing the team but she is also trying to push away her responsibility and blame other factors for the disbandment of Slayers.
A team is only as good as its leader
Last time I checked, the correct response as the employee is not to:
1. Lie
2. Look for direct competitors for a job
3. Disadvantage the employment you are with
4. Do this while under employment / contract.
Being a bad manager or making mistakes has consequences, but it isn't illegal. Jessica / Boxer literally had a sole proprietorship after they lost sponsors so they weren't responsible to other financial parties. Nothing about what Jessica did was illegal. What these players did are actually illegal actions.
edit: spelling fail.
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On October 23 2012 09:02 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:00 Proflo wrote:On October 23 2012 08:59 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 08:56 ggrrg wrote:On October 23 2012 08:51 Subversive wrote:On October 23 2012 08:47 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 08:45 Surriel wrote:On October 23 2012 08:24 Swords wrote:
I have a question, and it's quite possible I missed something.
Why is SlayerS actually disbanding? If the players are the cause of the trouble on the team, why don't they just dump the players and move on? Didn't TSL do something similar?
Is SlayerS low on cash? I'm unclear why the actions of MMA, Alicia, and Crank (if that's really the whole story) mean the entire team has to go. From what Ive heard, Slayers originally started as a group of people for Boxer to practice with when he started with SC2, and eventually it become a team. I dont think Boxer originally wanted to set out to make an SC2 team but it just so happened that would be the next logical step and why not? Now keep that in mind, and that the team is run by boxer and Jessica. They had some sponsors but apparently Boxer invested quite a lot of his own money into it. And then all this shit storm started, bad management/player issues whatever the case might be it was bad enough that Boxer just cant be bothered any more and jumped ship back to SKT1. The team was more or less just ran by Jessica and it seemed like shes got enough as well and going to focus back to her acting career. Since the management has clearly become quite disillusioned with the way things are currently, I dont see why they would continue to run it. Some other teams continued on despite being on deathbed at several times such as TSL or Zenex but it is because there is no other alternatives for the management. This is their livelihood. They had to push on. Obviously this is not a problem for Jessica and Boxer as they are doing well enough on their own. So why would they rebuild the entire team from scratch when they can just cut their losses right now. They lost all their sponsors due to Mr J so if they wanted to continue it was always out of boxer's pocket and they couldn't find sponsors (assumed) due to the players situation and team atmosphere any ways. I read Jessica's claim that Boxer poured in about 90K of his own money. What I would like to know is if this was out of the 200K personal sponsorship he received or on top of? That seems sort of relevant when everyone keeps talking about Boxer sacrificing his own money. Especially the way Jessica makes it sound... I guess, I have missed something. When did Boxer receive a 200K ($?/won?) sponsorship and who gave it to him? I believe it was intel. intel gave personal sponsorship to boxer, and Boxer used that money to fund Slayers. Are you sure there have been additional costs from boxer? Was the 200k in Won or USD? quite a large discrepancy if you know which one it was. Thanks ~ It was in US$, and yes we're sure there have been additional costs from Boxer. I'm quite surprised anyone could think that 200k in US$ is even nearly enough to run the team for as long and as extravagrant (compared to other Korean teams) as Boxer/Jessica did.
Wait, sorry we? I'd like your sources. Because you are the leader of the Pro-Jessica party in this thread. I was asking the seemingly non-biased Korean.
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On October 23 2012 09:02 ThePurist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:01 Kishin2 wrote:
Boxer is still the person that can potentially put everything at ease here. He already did. He grabbed the phone and talked it out with crank to come clean face to face.
He needs an official statement regarding Crank, MMA, him quitting as a player, the manager, everything.
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On October 23 2012 09:04 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 08:52 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 08:44 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 08:40 mongmong wrote:
MMA's statement is hard countered by Jessica.
It looks like the former coach Ryu won turned MMA's personal coach, and MMA was the one
responsible for paying Ryu won after he won GSL anaheim, but Ryu won only received a graphics card
worth $1000. So thats why Ryu won left slayers for woongjin Wait, you mean the team manager assigned a personal coach and then make him pay for it, while he does not have a chance to look for any or have any knowledge for sponsorship? Mind blown. Jessica should never ever manage any business again. when did i say the team manager assigned a personal coach? why are you making shit up? omfg ..... ok ill give a slighty more detailed explanation. MMA introduced coach Ryu won, who at the time was a close friend of MMA, to jessica. Jessica, MMA and Ryu met in person and coach Ryu was told by jessica that no salary would be paid by her to him since he is MMA's personal coach. Do you now understand??? It was MMA who introduced Ryu to jessica. It does not matter who introduce coach Ryu to whom. It's a matter of allowing your player to get a personal coach without any 1.) contract or 2.) make sure that he will get paid. Moreover, MMA's performance increase due to coach Ryu's coaching would still benefit the teams in many way, such as fame and team league performance. If the team was not willing to pay him, then she should not allow MMA to have personal coach since the beginning. The decision to him had one was already a big mistake. Now, I don't say that MMA was not wrong that he did not pay Coach Ryu. But it is just so amateurish from the Slayers management part to let this happen, instead of making sure that coach was rightfully compensated by the team because ,let's face it, the team benefits from coach Ryu coaching on MMA without holding any responsibility.
Personal coaches exist all the time in the professional world, the team establishment isn't responsible by default to pay for them. The point was that an agreement was reached with all parties. And MMA / Ryu went along with it of their own choice. I don't see any appeals for unfairness from Ryu and MMA was obviously voluntary.
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On October 23 2012 09:05 Kishin2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:02 ThePurist wrote:On October 23 2012 09:01 Kishin2 wrote:
Boxer is still the person that can potentially put everything at ease here. He already did. He grabbed the phone and talked it out with crank to come clean face to face. He needs an official statement regarding Crank, MMA, him quitting as a player, the manager, everything.
I'd rather let Jessica handle all of that though. She is too deep in already. BoxeR should remain as the Emperor letting everything happen by natural order.
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This keeps getting sadder and sadder.
I wish this would all stop - this is hurting esports.
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On October 23 2012 09:04 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 08:52 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 08:44 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 08:40 mongmong wrote:
MMA's statement is hard countered by Jessica.
It looks like the former coach Ryu won turned MMA's personal coach, and MMA was the one
responsible for paying Ryu won after he won GSL anaheim, but Ryu won only received a graphics card
worth $1000. So thats why Ryu won left slayers for woongjin Wait, you mean the team manager assigned a personal coach and then make him pay for it, while he does not have a chance to look for any or have any knowledge for sponsorship? Mind blown. Jessica should never ever manage any business again. when did i say the team manager assigned a personal coach? why are you making shit up? omfg ..... ok ill give a slighty more detailed explanation. MMA introduced coach Ryu won, who at the time was a close friend of MMA, to jessica. Jessica, MMA and Ryu met in person and coach Ryu was told by jessica that no salary would be paid by her to him since he is MMA's personal coach. Do you now understand??? It was MMA who introduced Ryu to jessica. It does not matter who introduce coach Ryu to whom. It's a matter of allowing your player to get a personal coach without any 1.) contract or 2.) make sure that he will get paid. Moreover, MMA's performance increase due to coach Ryu's coaching would still benefit the teams in many way, such as fame and team league performance. If the team was not willing to pay him, then she should not allow MMA to have personal coach since the beginning. The decision to him had one was already a big mistake. Now, I don't say that MMA was not wrong that he did not pay Coach Ryu. But it is just so amateurish from the Slayers management part to let this happen, instead of making sure that coach was rightfully compensated by the team because ,let's face it, the team benefits from coach Ryu coaching on MMA without holding any responsibility.
Well tbh, we don't know how that conversation went. Maybe MMA insisted that he took care of it? its another conversation we will never know unit someone pulls out a tape with the exact words.
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On October 23 2012 09:04 Drlemur wrote:
Can anybody summarize what Crank & MMA have done that would be bad by western standards? Complaining about how the team is run, wanting more, wanting to go to a team that paid better -- those aren't things that really get you in trouble in US/Europe. We're kind of used to high-pressure athletes occasionally acting out like primadonnas too. And then mostly forgiving them afterward.
Other than disrespecting Boxer/Jessica, I'm not seeing much to the accusations here. Maybe MMA not paying Ryu if he was his personal coach? That seems more about the two of them than Slayers, then.
Not sure how J shows up and costs them all their sponsors either, but that kind of event can't be anybody's fault but management unless Crank/MMA were actively dissuading sponsors. I haven't seen any accusation of that.
I probably don't understand Korean culture enough to really get the drama here, but I'm ready to go watch Ax.Crank and EG.MMA start just playing SC2 again.
MMA should be on Axiom too. It just makes sense. I keep saying this.
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On October 23 2012 09:04 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:01 Benjamin99 wrote:
All this drama. The fact of the matter is in any organisation its the boss,director,project manager responsibility to keep its staff happy and in order and to provide workable atmosphere. If there is any problem with the staff its the boss job to fix it.
So if this was actually a company and I was in the board of directors I would fire Jessica faster then the speed of light. Its clearly for me that not only did she fail completely regarding managing the team but she is also trying to push away her responsibility and blame other factors for the disbandment of Slayers.
A team is only as good as its leader Last time I checked, the current response as the employee is not to: 1. Lie 2. Look for direct competitors for a job 3. Disadvantage the employment you are with 4. Do this while under employment / contract. Being a bad manager or making mistakes has consequences, but it isn't illegal. Jessica / Boxer literally had a sole proprietorship after they lost sponsors so they weren't responsible to other financial parties. Nothing about what Jessica did was illegal. What these players did are actually illegal actions.
You could argue that the manager/leader has the responsibility to screen the people they invite to their organization. Plenty of real companies that has been convicted for negligence for this exact kind of things.
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On October 23 2012 09:04 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 08:52 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 08:44 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 08:40 mongmong wrote:
MMA's statement is hard countered by Jessica.
It looks like the former coach Ryu won turned MMA's personal coach, and MMA was the one
responsible for paying Ryu won after he won GSL anaheim, but Ryu won only received a graphics card
worth $1000. So thats why Ryu won left slayers for woongjin Wait, you mean the team manager assigned a personal coach and then make him pay for it, while he does not have a chance to look for any or have any knowledge for sponsorship? Mind blown. Jessica should never ever manage any business again. when did i say the team manager assigned a personal coach? why are you making shit up? omfg ..... ok ill give a slighty more detailed explanation. MMA introduced coach Ryu won, who at the time was a close friend of MMA, to jessica. Jessica, MMA and Ryu met in person and coach Ryu was told by jessica that no salary would be paid by her to him since he is MMA's personal coach. Do you now understand??? It was MMA who introduced Ryu to jessica. It does not matter who introduce coach Ryu to whom. It's a matter of allowing your player to get a personal coach without any 1.) contract or 2.) make sure that he will get paid. Moreover, MMA's performance increase due to coach Ryu's coaching would still benefit the teams in many way, such as fame and team league performance. If the team was not willing to pay him, then she should not allow MMA to have personal coach since the beginning. The decision to him had one was already a big mistake. Now, I don't say that MMA was not wrong that he did not pay Coach Ryu. But it is just so amateurish from the Slayers management part to let this happen, instead of making sure that coach was rightfully compensated by the team because ,let's face it, the team benefits from coach Ryu coaching on MMA without holding any responsibility.
Amateurish? There's countless instances in sports where athletes pay their own trainers while still being part of a team.
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On October 23 2012 09:05 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:02 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:00 Proflo wrote:On October 23 2012 08:59 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 08:56 ggrrg wrote:On October 23 2012 08:51 Subversive wrote:On October 23 2012 08:47 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 08:45 Surriel wrote:On October 23 2012 08:24 Swords wrote:
I have a question, and it's quite possible I missed something.
Why is SlayerS actually disbanding? If the players are the cause of the trouble on the team, why don't they just dump the players and move on? Didn't TSL do something similar?
Is SlayerS low on cash? I'm unclear why the actions of MMA, Alicia, and Crank (if that's really the whole story) mean the entire team has to go. From what Ive heard, Slayers originally started as a group of people for Boxer to practice with when he started with SC2, and eventually it become a team. I dont think Boxer originally wanted to set out to make an SC2 team but it just so happened that would be the next logical step and why not? Now keep that in mind, and that the team is run by boxer and Jessica. They had some sponsors but apparently Boxer invested quite a lot of his own money into it. And then all this shit storm started, bad management/player issues whatever the case might be it was bad enough that Boxer just cant be bothered any more and jumped ship back to SKT1. The team was more or less just ran by Jessica and it seemed like shes got enough as well and going to focus back to her acting career. Since the management has clearly become quite disillusioned with the way things are currently, I dont see why they would continue to run it. Some other teams continued on despite being on deathbed at several times such as TSL or Zenex but it is because there is no other alternatives for the management. This is their livelihood. They had to push on. Obviously this is not a problem for Jessica and Boxer as they are doing well enough on their own. So why would they rebuild the entire team from scratch when they can just cut their losses right now. They lost all their sponsors due to Mr J so if they wanted to continue it was always out of boxer's pocket and they couldn't find sponsors (assumed) due to the players situation and team atmosphere any ways. I read Jessica's claim that Boxer poured in about 90K of his own money. What I would like to know is if this was out of the 200K personal sponsorship he received or on top of? That seems sort of relevant when everyone keeps talking about Boxer sacrificing his own money. Especially the way Jessica makes it sound... I guess, I have missed something. When did Boxer receive a 200K ($?/won?) sponsorship and who gave it to him? I believe it was intel. intel gave personal sponsorship to boxer, and Boxer used that money to fund Slayers. Are you sure there have been additional costs from boxer? Was the 200k in Won or USD? quite a large discrepancy if you know which one it was. Thanks ~ It was in US$, and yes we're sure there have been additional costs from Boxer. I'm quite surprised anyone could think that 200k in US$ is even nearly enough to run the team for as long and as extravagrant (compared to other Korean teams) as Boxer/Jessica did. Wait, sorry we? I'd like your sources. Because you are the leader of the Pro-Jessica party in this thread. I was asking the seemingly non-biased Korean.
Yeah I would as well.... Not that this is necessarily the biggest detail here, but.... Intel sponsored boxer 180k and the team 270k seperately.... Hard to believe they went over 450k, 200k I could definitely see though with flights etc...
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On October 23 2012 09:06 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:05 Kishin2 wrote:On October 23 2012 09:02 ThePurist wrote:On October 23 2012 09:01 Kishin2 wrote:
Boxer is still the person that can potentially put everything at ease here. He already did. He grabbed the phone and talked it out with crank to come clean face to face. He needs an official statement regarding Crank, MMA, him quitting as a player, the manager, everything. I'd rather let Jessica handle all of that though. She is too deep in already. BoxeR should remain as the Emperor letting everything happen by natural order.
Ya, he let his players suffer under his actress girlfriends leadership, while he bailed.
What a legend.
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wow very nice, thanks for the interview.
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EPT
