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I wonder if we'll ever get an official report on things, or a response from boxer or any of the other player (thanks alicia)
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On October 18 2012 04:21 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 04:14 ssxsilver wrote:On October 18 2012 04:07 ramask2 wrote:On October 18 2012 04:04 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On October 18 2012 03:59 Swords wrote:
I feel like there's a ton of speculation and accusations happening here without knowing the full story. We have Jessica's side of everything, which is a good start and probably the most comprehensive, as she interacted with all these players. However, I can't in good conscience say nasty stuff about the players and others involved until I get their side of the story. Before we all declare Alicia, MMA, etc. as divas and "bad for esports" we should at least get their side of the story and see more evidence for what's been said here.
I do find it hard to believe that this one team managed to have so much drama, and somehow everyone but Jessica was responsible for it. Even if she wasn't the main cause of drama (and I think she definitely tried to make Slayers the best team it could be) you cannot be in such a position of power and allow this to happen without making some mistakes or errors.
Finally, I think airing all the dirty laundry as the team collapses does nobody any favors. It makes Jessica look like a drama queen. It makes the players look completely unhireable (which sucks for someone like Alicia or MMA who're obviously extremely talented). Finally, it makes the whole Korean scene look shitty with the accusations to ESF, IM, etc. Nobody gained anything from these revelations, people are only going to be hurt by them. Except nothing gets changed/improved if no one talks about it. I'm honestly asking here (not trolling), what could be changed/improved from this in the future? What could we gain from knowing all the drama? Just seems to me like all of the issues here are personal in nature. To hopefully weed out all the bad apples in ESports? Rekrul did the same thing revealing a lot of the downfalls of OGS and he was heralded a hero on TL. Jessica gets blasted by 1/2 the posters. What did Rekrul say about oGs?
Mostly hearsay. I can't really remember much of it (since he backtracked off his comments), but I think it was during the time of the whole TSL Coach Lee incident and him doing some very shady stuff to OGS. Again, I'm not entirely accurate.
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Guys, do not take everything she says as the 100% truth. Just like everything, there are two sides to the story. What actually happened with these events, I doubt it went down exactly like Jessica has said. And it has little to do with Jessica, but everything to do with thats how it works.
Sad to see SlayerS go. They were THE team. But they have had so many problems the last year, it seemed this day was coming. I hope the players and coaches find new teams soon.
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On October 18 2012 04:20 testthewest wrote:
This may be the media, or the voters. But do young male adults, or male teenagers like a female telling them what to do (if it is not their mother)?
I could imagine this age to be rebellious and only accept people "ruling them" that they respect skill- or achievementwise.
I could be wrong, but as far as I am aware, Jessica is the only female team manager of a male team, in a male sport.
Or do you know i.e. a female sc2 manager/football manager/basketball manager (all mens teams)??
Samsung KHAN's manager is also a female (January).
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On October 18 2012 04:19 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 04:16 Creager wrote:On October 18 2012 03:56 felisconcolori wrote:On October 18 2012 03:51 Lunareste wrote:On October 18 2012 03:46 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:45 Lunareste wrote:On October 18 2012 03:40 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:38 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 03:37 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:30 deezy wrote:
[quote]
I think you are twisting this too much. If you read the article, it points out that some of these things were out of her reach. You can't account for other peoples' actions especially when the ball isn't in your court. If anything, she deserves more respect for protecting the team and their players. If you don't believe in something, why are you going to join them, especially when they are so quick to turn against you without hearing both sides? Twisting what? this is one side of the story (hers) which you can clearly see a lack of leadership on her part. She is basically saying everyone was out to get her and she had no idea why this was happening, which is poor leadership at its core. Also ripping all your players right when they are going to be looking for jobs is really bad form... If what she says is accurate then the players don't deserve jobs Yes I'm sure everyone on the team was terrible and she was an angel and the best leader of all time!!!!! happy now? someone must have a crush rofl... If you hate Jessica so much, why not just leave the fucking thread? Giving someone the benefit of the doubt because you suspect their emotions are sincere is not the same as having a crush on someone. Get over yourself. I said she was a poor leader and that does not equal hating someone.... If you think she is a strong leader based on that interview I am interested on hearing why. You're the only person in this entire series of quotes here to ever say anything about what kind of leader she is. I'm not going to give my opinions because they would obviously be lost on you; your bias is quite clear and your disrespect of other forum members "someone must have a crush rofl..." diminishes my wishes to have a conversation of any kind with you. I, sir, am interested in your opinions. Because, from a strictly business management viewpoint, I have to note there appear to be holes in her management style. Leadership is not about dictating on the basis of contract legalities or because you are the manager. (I know, many people in actual management positions fail to grasp this as well.) Based on Jessica's own statements, she seems to lack a comprehensive and unemotionally burdened conflict resolution process - perhaps because of her deep emotional involvement and conviction of looking out for a player's best interests. But I am interested in your opinion on Jessica as a leadership figure. You know, we are all human beings with desires and dreams that we strive for. Even in business people are making the decisions and since we are all different means some of our kind have emotions and ethics influencing those decisions. This is actually what mankind probably will never truly learn, to act like human beings treating others with respect and dignity. BoxeR and Jessica wanted to create a unique place where players could unite, live and practise together while pursuing a philosophy where this team and it's members are rather considered family than colleagues. This whole business talk disgusts me, I feel for BoxeR who got his dream smashed which he put so much effort into. I really hope he can find his passion again and return as a player one day! Exactly, the person I feel sorry for the most is Boxer. He has always been a notch above when it comes to his dream for e-sports and the professional mindset. I can't imagine dumping a hundred grand into a team and then have this shit happen. I hope people who are all 'business should be emotionless' people are equally critical of Axiom because they are trying to do the same thing as SlayerS was.
Isn't Crank the first player on Axiom? Interesting... If what he did happens to be confirmed true this guy sure is one hell of a dick...
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
If nothing else for Alicia he will fit just right in startale if the search for a foreign team doesn't work out entirely :p
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I doubt anyone thinks Jessica is a good manager, but from what Alicia said
"...My complaint on getting a ride was only a part of the problem..."
Why should that even be a problem? That says a lot about Alicia's character.
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Well, this is pretty sad. Doesn't come as a huge surprise that they had problems considering Boxer left, but I didn't think it was this bad. I liked Slayers, hopefully most of the players manage to find new teams (and don't move on to LoL).
I don't quite understand this embezzling thing though. I thought it was a pretty known that Slayers was run mostly with money from personal sponsorships to Boxer. If Jessica was taking money for her own wouldn't it be pretty simple for Boxer to just check the finances and deny it? One would have thought that this would be a pretty simple thing to disprove. Why would the players even believe this in the first case.
In any case it will be interesting to see if any other information comes out regarding how much of this is true and how much of this is true only from Jessicas point of view.
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I should point out here that it would take something tremendous for Boxer to have such breakdown and wanted to quit. This BOXER we are talking about!!!! He formed Orion despite all the hardships of progaming early days and it has grown to become SKT and esports overall we know and love. He took in iloveoov, who had a lot of character issues early days, and raised him to be one of the most dominant player in BW. Boxer had a lot of haters as does anybody with his fanbase and he's heard everything he could, and yet he stood strong and continued his playing career. He has always wanted to play more games and give back to the fans. For this Boxer to feel like quitting, I think it speaks volumes to how devastating MMA's actions were to Boxer.
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Jessica. You are truly a good hearted person, too good it seems for this game. eSF have a mob mentality I guess, "either you're with us or you're against us." Thanks for fighting for what you believe in. It's too bad that so many things piled up and you had to give in and quit. Sorry for any bad post I wrote about you.
So for all the people giving Jessica and even Kespa shit, what do you have to say now?
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On October 18 2012 04:30 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 04:19 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 04:16 Creager wrote:On October 18 2012 03:56 felisconcolori wrote:On October 18 2012 03:51 Lunareste wrote:On October 18 2012 03:46 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:45 Lunareste wrote:On October 18 2012 03:40 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:38 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 03:37 theonemav wrote:
[quote]
Twisting what? this is one side of the story (hers) which you can clearly see a lack of leadership on her part.
She is basically saying everyone was out to get her and she had no idea why this was happening, which is poor leadership at its core.
Also ripping all your players right when they are going to be looking for jobs is really bad form...
If what she says is accurate then the players don't deserve jobs Yes I'm sure everyone on the team was terrible and she was an angel and the best leader of all time!!!!! happy now? someone must have a crush rofl... If you hate Jessica so much, why not just leave the fucking thread? Giving someone the benefit of the doubt because you suspect their emotions are sincere is not the same as having a crush on someone. Get over yourself. I said she was a poor leader and that does not equal hating someone.... If you think she is a strong leader based on that interview I am interested on hearing why. You're the only person in this entire series of quotes here to ever say anything about what kind of leader she is. I'm not going to give my opinions because they would obviously be lost on you; your bias is quite clear and your disrespect of other forum members "someone must have a crush rofl..." diminishes my wishes to have a conversation of any kind with you. I, sir, am interested in your opinions. Because, from a strictly business management viewpoint, I have to note there appear to be holes in her management style. Leadership is not about dictating on the basis of contract legalities or because you are the manager. (I know, many people in actual management positions fail to grasp this as well.) Based on Jessica's own statements, she seems to lack a comprehensive and unemotionally burdened conflict resolution process - perhaps because of her deep emotional involvement and conviction of looking out for a player's best interests. But I am interested in your opinion on Jessica as a leadership figure. You know, we are all human beings with desires and dreams that we strive for. Even in business people are making the decisions and since we are all different means some of our kind have emotions and ethics influencing those decisions. This is actually what mankind probably will never truly learn, to act like human beings treating others with respect and dignity. BoxeR and Jessica wanted to create a unique place where players could unite, live and practise together while pursuing a philosophy where this team and it's members are rather considered family than colleagues. This whole business talk disgusts me, I feel for BoxeR who got his dream smashed which he put so much effort into. I really hope he can find his passion again and return as a player one day! Exactly, the person I feel sorry for the most is Boxer. He has always been a notch above when it comes to his dream for e-sports and the professional mindset. I can't imagine dumping a hundred grand into a team and then have this shit happen. I hope people who are all 'business should be emotionless' people are equally critical of Axiom because they are trying to do the same thing as SlayerS was. Isn't Crank the first player on Axiom? Interesting... If what he did happens to be confirmed true this guy sure is one hell of a dick...
I don't think he's a dick. It's really unclear what's going on here. Crank and Jessica have problems communicating and then Crank has some health issues (but is probably a combination of neck + wanting to quit the game), then Crank gets support from the public and goes to MLG, gets his love for the game/fans back, goes back to joining a team. We're willing to give Jessica so much rope for her disolving herself of any blame, and can't give Crank the latitude one would give to a young player in a bad situation?
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Finally some more information.
Still does not say anything about the whole ESF issue though.. Sadly
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Yeah, him leaving the team just for an airport ride did seem quite far fetched.
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On October 18 2012 04:31 sihyunie wrote:
I should point out here that it would take something tremendous for Boxer to have such breakdown and wanted to quit. This BOXER we are talking about!!!! He formed Orion despite all the hardships of progaming early days and it has grown to become SKT and esports overall we know and love. He took in iloveoov, who had a lot of character issues early days, and raised him to be one of the most dominant player in BW. Boxer had a lot of haters as does anybody with his fanbase and he's heard everything he could, and yet he stood strong and continued his playing career. He has always wanted to play more games and give back to the fans. For this Boxer to feel like quitting, I think it speaks volumes to how devastating MMA's actions were to Boxer.
Exactly! It's BoxeR!!! How could anyone do such a thing to him (and even his "own son")?!
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Alicia was just disappointed about Jessica's constant feuds with the other teams via Twitter. Very reasonable to me.
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Ok, that's it, I might as well go kill myself now...  (((
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On October 18 2012 04:30 zestzorb wrote:I doubt anyone thinks Jessica is a good manager, but from what Alicia said "...My complaint on getting a ride was only a part of the problem..." Why should that even be a problem? That says a lot about Alicia's character.
Well, if you read the rest of the interview he goes on to say that the team management (aside from Cella -> Coach Hong) didn't seem like they gave a shit about non-GSTL matches and was putting too much pressure on players for GSTL matches.
That is a problem.
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On October 18 2012 04:33 Rhine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 04:30 Creager wrote:On October 18 2012 04:19 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 04:16 Creager wrote:On October 18 2012 03:56 felisconcolori wrote:On October 18 2012 03:51 Lunareste wrote:On October 18 2012 03:46 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:45 Lunareste wrote:On October 18 2012 03:40 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:38 zefreak wrote:
[quote]
If what she says is accurate then the players don't deserve jobs
Yes I'm sure everyone on the team was terrible and she was an angel and the best leader of all time!!!!! happy now? someone must have a crush rofl... If you hate Jessica so much, why not just leave the fucking thread? Giving someone the benefit of the doubt because you suspect their emotions are sincere is not the same as having a crush on someone. Get over yourself. I said she was a poor leader and that does not equal hating someone.... If you think she is a strong leader based on that interview I am interested on hearing why. You're the only person in this entire series of quotes here to ever say anything about what kind of leader she is. I'm not going to give my opinions because they would obviously be lost on you; your bias is quite clear and your disrespect of other forum members "someone must have a crush rofl..." diminishes my wishes to have a conversation of any kind with you. I, sir, am interested in your opinions. Because, from a strictly business management viewpoint, I have to note there appear to be holes in her management style. Leadership is not about dictating on the basis of contract legalities or because you are the manager. (I know, many people in actual management positions fail to grasp this as well.) Based on Jessica's own statements, she seems to lack a comprehensive and unemotionally burdened conflict resolution process - perhaps because of her deep emotional involvement and conviction of looking out for a player's best interests. But I am interested in your opinion on Jessica as a leadership figure. You know, we are all human beings with desires and dreams that we strive for. Even in business people are making the decisions and since we are all different means some of our kind have emotions and ethics influencing those decisions. This is actually what mankind probably will never truly learn, to act like human beings treating others with respect and dignity. BoxeR and Jessica wanted to create a unique place where players could unite, live and practise together while pursuing a philosophy where this team and it's members are rather considered family than colleagues. This whole business talk disgusts me, I feel for BoxeR who got his dream smashed which he put so much effort into. I really hope he can find his passion again and return as a player one day! Exactly, the person I feel sorry for the most is Boxer. He has always been a notch above when it comes to his dream for e-sports and the professional mindset. I can't imagine dumping a hundred grand into a team and then have this shit happen. I hope people who are all 'business should be emotionless' people are equally critical of Axiom because they are trying to do the same thing as SlayerS was. Isn't Crank the first player on Axiom? Interesting... If what he did happens to be confirmed true this guy sure is one hell of a dick... I don't think he's a dick. It's really unclear what's going on here. Crank and Jessica have problems communicating and then Crank has some health issues (but is probably a combination of neck + wanting to quit the game), then Crank gets support from the public and goes to MLG, gets his love for the game/fans back, goes back to joining a team. We're willing to give Jessica so much rope for her disolving herself of any blame, and can't give Crank the latitude one would give to a young player in a bad situation?
Well if he actually did what Jessica said (lying about not seeking another team, yelling to BoxeR, sowing discord) then he's pretty much a huge dick.
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Alicia didn't really say much, just defensive against accusations.
Seems like people want to be ho hum about it fucking way ESF teams deal with business is still childlike
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On October 18 2012 04:33 blamekilly wrote:
Jessica. You are truly a good hearted person, too good it seems for this game. eSF have a mob mentality I guess, "either you're with us or you're against us." Thanks for fighting for what you believe in. It's too bad that so many things piled up and you had to give in and quit. Sorry for any bad post I wrote about you.
So for all the people giving Jessica and even Kespa shit, what do you have to say now?
Lazarus Long wrote:
"What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!"
More investigation, and more information needed.
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EPT
