uh I never said this was her fault... just pointing out this interview really points out her flaws as a leader.
I think you are twisting this too much. If you read the article, it points out that some of these things were out of her reach. You can't account for other peoples' actions especially when the ball isn't in your court. If anything, she deserves more respect for protecting the team and their players. If you don't believe in something, why are you going to join them, especially when they are so quick to turn against you without hearing both sides?
Twisting what? this is one side of the story (hers) which you can clearly see a lack of leadership on her part.
She is basically saying everyone was out to get her and she had no idea why this was happening, which is poor leadership at its core.
Also ripping all your players right when they are going to be looking for jobs is really bad form...
If what she says is accurate then the players don't deserve jobs
Yes I'm sure everyone on the team was terrible and she was an angel and the best leader of all time!!!!!
happy now?
someone must have a crush rofl...
If you hate Jessica so much, why not just leave the fucking thread?
Giving someone the benefit of the doubt because you suspect their emotions are sincere is not the same as having a crush on someone.
Get over yourself.
I said she was a poor leader and that does not equal hating someone....
If you think she is a strong leader based on that interview I am interested on hearing why.
You're the only person in this entire series of quotes here to ever say anything about what kind of leader she is.
I'm not going to give my opinions because they would obviously be lost on you; your bias is quite clear and your disrespect of other forum members "someone must have a crush rofl..." diminishes my wishes to have a conversation of any kind with you.
I, sir, am interested in your opinions. Because, from a strictly business management viewpoint, I have to note there appear to be holes in her management style. Leadership is not about dictating on the basis of contract legalities or because you are the manager. (I know, many people in actual management positions fail to grasp this as well.) Based on Jessica's own statements, she seems to lack a comprehensive and unemotionally burdened conflict resolution process - perhaps because of her deep emotional involvement and conviction of looking out for a player's best interests.
But I am interested in your opinion on Jessica as a leadership figure.
You know, we are all human beings with desires and dreams that we strive for. Even in business people are making the decisions and since we are all different means some of our kind have emotions and ethics influencing those decisions. This is actually what mankind probably will never truly learn, to act like human beings treating others with respect and dignity.
BoxeR and Jessica wanted to create a unique place where players could unite, live and practise together while pursuing a philosophy where this team and it's members are rather considered family than colleagues. This whole business talk disgusts me, I feel for BoxeR who got his dream smashed which he put so much effort into. I really hope he can find his passion again and return as a player one day!
Exactly, the person I feel sorry for the most is Boxer. He has always been a notch above when it comes to his dream for e-sports and the professional mindset. I can't imagine dumping a hundred grand into a team and then have this shit happen.
I hope people who are all 'business should be emotionless' people are equally critical of Axiom because they are trying to do the same thing as SlayerS was.
On October 18 2012 02:27 AbideWithMe wrote: I think it is a really shady move to keep an "incident with Alicia" secret as it puts him in an uncomfortable position where he can not even comment on it.
If it really ends in the court its alright though. They won't sue him because he left the door open or was unfriendly.
Jessica would probably sue anyone for anything
Listen: If there is a contract that is being broken, sueing is the right legal way to go about it.
Why didn't the players just talk openly about their problems? Instead they seem to be agitated by outsiders and believe them, without listening to the other side. Furthermore you wonder: Why should someone that puts money into the team want to destroy it's players?
Perhaps the main problem is, Koreans can deal with a woman being the boss?
We'll find out after the Korean presidential elections.
Park Geun Hye may become the first woman president in Korea if she is elected this December.
i forgot who but some politician commented on female president negatively, he got chewed up so badly by the media and the political parties. i dont think korea no longer has the sexism problem anymore, in large/public scale at least.
and i grew up with my dad refusing to support my sister's school tuition because she isn't worth it (cus shes a girl) o.O time has changed.
This may be the media, or the voters. But do young male adults, or male teenagers like a female telling them what to do (if it is not their mother)?
I could imagine this age to be rebellious and only accept people "ruling them" that they respect skill- or achievementwise.
I could be wrong, but as far as I am aware, Jessica is the only female team manager of a male team, in a male sport. Or do you know i.e. a female sc2 manager/football manager/basketball manager (all mens teams)??
On October 18 2012 03:59 Swords wrote: I feel like there's a ton of speculation and accusations happening here without knowing the full story. We have Jessica's side of everything, which is a good start and probably the most comprehensive, as she interacted with all these players. However, I can't in good conscience say nasty stuff about the players and others involved until I get their side of the story. Before we all declare Alicia, MMA, etc. as divas and "bad for esports" we should at least get their side of the story and see more evidence for what's been said here.
I do find it hard to believe that this one team managed to have so much drama, and somehow everyone but Jessica was responsible for it. Even if she wasn't the main cause of drama (and I think she definitely tried to make Slayers the best team it could be) you cannot be in such a position of power and allow this to happen without making some mistakes or errors.
Finally, I think airing all the dirty laundry as the team collapses does nobody any favors. It makes Jessica look like a drama queen. It makes the players look completely unhireable (which sucks for someone like Alicia or MMA who're obviously extremely talented). Finally, it makes the whole Korean scene look shitty with the accusations to ESF, IM, etc. Nobody gained anything from these revelations, people are only going to be hurt by them.
Except nothing gets changed/improved if no one talks about it.
I'm honestly asking here (not trolling), what could be changed/improved from this in the future? What could we gain from knowing all the drama? Just seems to me like all of the issues here are personal in nature.
To hopefully weed out all the bad apples in ESports? Rekrul did the same thing revealing a lot of the downfalls of OGS and he was heralded a hero on TL. Jessica gets blasted by 1/2 the posters.
On October 18 2012 02:27 AbideWithMe wrote: I think it is a really shady move to keep an "incident with Alicia" secret as it puts him in an uncomfortable position where he can not even comment on it.
If it really ends in the court its alright though. They won't sue him because he left the door open or was unfriendly.
Jessica would probably sue anyone for anything
Listen: If there is a contract that is being broken, sueing is the right legal way to go about it.
Why didn't the players just talk openly about their problems? Instead they seem to be agitated by outsiders and believe them, without listening to the other side. Furthermore you wonder: Why should someone that puts money into the team want to destroy it's players?
Perhaps the main problem is, Koreans can deal with a woman being the boss?
We'll find out after the Korean presidential elections.
Park Geun Hye may become the first woman president in Korea if she is elected this December.
i forgot who but some politician commented on female president negatively, he got chewed up so badly by the media and the political parties. i dont think korea no longer has the sexism problem anymore, in large/public scale at least.
and i grew up with my dad refusing to support my sister's school tuition because she isn't worth it (cus shes a girl) o.O time has changed.
Be prepared, female leaders can make hard decisions. (Merkel *cough*)
Sorry, but that must be a joke. Merkel is like a leaf turning in the wind. She is an opportunist of the worst kind, misleading the people that voted for her all the time. Her best asset is an even more disgusting opposition!
There are so many 'incidents' described here. The Ganzi incident, the Alicia incident, the Crank incident, the MMA one.
I am curious what happened with Alicia. Jessica seems to imply it is a legal thing, and a serious one that could ruin his entire career. That seems to hint that a crime has been committed! It is possible I am misconstruing her but the vagueness and hinting suggest that to me. She aired all the other dirty linen in public but would not go into that issue due to court issues? Sounds ominous to me.
Also interesting to hear that Taeja is not someone who practices hard, compared to MMA, but just seems very gifted at SC2. A bit like Stephano, I guess.
Anyway this whole thing has shed some light on the Korean scene from an insiders perspective. Regardless of whether Jessica is 100% accurate or not, it does show serious conflicts exists between various teams and individuals. The Korean scene looks a lot more fractured and clique-ridden and unprofessional then it did yesterday. No doubt, other people will give their sides to these issues. Gemma Bain, Crank, TB, Startale, MMA and Alicia will probably feel obliged to make some comment on these revelations.
I do feel sorry for Boxer. He financially supported the team and selected these guys from nowhere into becoming pro-gamers and gave them good conditions in which to do this. It seems some people were a bit ungrateful about this.
On October 18 2012 04:06 WigglingSquid wrote: Can someone familiar with korean culture tell us whether this whole "I was so good to them, why did they do this to me" thing is common and accepted in the workplace, or if it is a personal attitude of Jessica's?
Well having being raised in a Korean household, I guess I'm biased but i thought all cultures were like this lol
they are, its just that a lot of people on TL post without thinking first, especially in huge threads like this one.
if someone is treating you well its only natural to be good to them in return, I have no idea what kind of an idiot would think this basic human behavior is exclusive to koreans...
I know that it isn't exactly easy, but could some translators please translate the rebuttals/counter-rebuttals/whatever that have and will come out of this? Right now we're only really getting one side of the story, and that doesn't help anyone.
That being said, based on what some people are saying about the IM coach's response I'm not exactly impressed with it; expecting open-ended loyalty based on just accepting Ganzi into his team, without any contract or presumably salary, is pretty weak. Progamers need to make a living too, and if this culture continues where even without contracts they're discouraged from switching teams, that's not going to be easy...
I think you are twisting this too much. If you read the article, it points out that some of these things were out of her reach. You can't account for other peoples' actions especially when the ball isn't in your court. If anything, she deserves more respect for protecting the team and their players. If you don't believe in something, why are you going to join them, especially when they are so quick to turn against you without hearing both sides?
Twisting what? this is one side of the story (hers) which you can clearly see a lack of leadership on her part.
She is basically saying everyone was out to get her and she had no idea why this was happening, which is poor leadership at its core.
Also ripping all your players right when they are going to be looking for jobs is really bad form...
If what she says is accurate then the players don't deserve jobs
Yes I'm sure everyone on the team was terrible and she was an angel and the best leader of all time!!!!!
happy now?
someone must have a crush rofl...
If you hate Jessica so much, why not just leave the fucking thread?
Giving someone the benefit of the doubt because you suspect their emotions are sincere is not the same as having a crush on someone.
Get over yourself.
I said she was a poor leader and that does not equal hating someone....
If you think she is a strong leader based on that interview I am interested on hearing why.
You're the only person in this entire series of quotes here to ever say anything about what kind of leader she is.
I'm not going to give my opinions because they would obviously be lost on you; your bias is quite clear and your disrespect of other forum members "someone must have a crush rofl..." diminishes my wishes to have a conversation of any kind with you.
I, sir, am interested in your opinions. Because, from a strictly business management viewpoint, I have to note there appear to be holes in her management style. Leadership is not about dictating on the basis of contract legalities or because you are the manager. (I know, many people in actual management positions fail to grasp this as well.) Based on Jessica's own statements, she seems to lack a comprehensive and unemotionally burdened conflict resolution process - perhaps because of her deep emotional involvement and conviction of looking out for a player's best interests.
But I am interested in your opinion on Jessica as a leadership figure.
You know, we are all human beings with desires and dreams that we strive for. Even in business people are making the decisions and since we are all different means some of our kind have emotions and ethics influencing those decisions. This is actually what mankind probably will never truly learn, to act like human beings treating others with respect and dignity.
BoxeR and Jessica wanted to create a unique place where players could unite, live and practise together while pursuing a philosophy where this team and it's members are rather considered family than colleagues. This whole business talk disgusts me, I feel for BoxeR who got his dream smashed which he put so much effort into. I really hope he can find his passion again and return as a player one day!
Exactly, the person I feel sorry for the most is Boxer. He has always been a notch above when it comes to his dream for e-sports and the professional mindset. I can't imagine dumping a hundred grand into a team and then have this shit happen.
I hope people who are all 'business should be emotionless' people are equally critical of Axiom because they are trying to do the same thing as SlayerS was.
I'm hoping that Genna is looking at this and seeing where potential problems can arise. Having a family feeling to a team and actually acting as though it is a family are two different things. It's still a business enterprise, and when they fail (even with the best of intentions and plans at the start) they do harm to everyone.
I don't see Genna saying that Crank is her son, and expecting him to treat her as a mother figure. In the interviews I have seen, she treats Axiom as a business but with a family sense of atmosphere. Fair dealing, inclusive and honest discussions, and not trying to screw the players over.
I think Boxer and Jessica wanted a family, not a business. And sometimes families can be dysfunctional, especially if not everyone in the family is pulling in the same direction. I think BoxeR wanted to do something noble, and I applaud him for trying. But not everyone is going to feel the same way, and if you handle disagreements in a business situation like a parental situation it almost never turns out well in the long run.
EPT
