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Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans. |
On October 18 2012 03:57 Jebusrocks wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:36 felisconcolori wrote:... I can't read Korean. -_- Seeker (or any other awesome wonderful translator people whose names spring into my head), your our only hope. (Sophisticated zing, Waxangel.) The article goes on about when ganzi first began playing SC2, Mvp approached him and they played together. Because IM had a slot open in the amateur division, they tried to acquire Ganzi, telling him that living conditions might be bad. ganzi said that as long as he has a place to play sc2 he doesnt mind and joined, becoming #1 on the ladder in a few months With this increase in skill they decided to enter him in a tourney (dunno which one) but the night before the tourney, Ganzi expressed his interest in joining slayers. The IM coach, sort of disappointed, contacted coach Sung sang Hoon (is that cella), who said they never offered Ganzi anything. The coach apologized and hung up, Ganzi left the house next morning without a "Thank you" or "sorry". Furthermore Ganzi texted the coach, saying that he was no longer welcome in slayers so solve this for me (i think thats what it says, my korean is pretty bad these days). ganzi was never contracted to IM, but the coach was still angry cuz he had accepted Ganzi only a few days into Ganzi's entrance into sc2, and thought Ganzi should be more grateful. He also wasn't sure if he was talking to slayers while he was in the IM house So he approached a bunch of coaches ( I believe all are part of the Sc2 con they had prior to esf). He NEVER advised the group to ban Ganzi from joining a team, rather, he wanted to make sure players couldnt just hop from team to team. He became more mad when Jessica said a bunch of things about IM regarding Ganzi (such as IM was asking 500 000 won for stayin in the player house (of which Jessica claimed there were 18) and that they just fooled around and never played the game) IM coach rebutted, saying that only twelve players were in the house, and that he had never made money from the house, asking 400 000 won from 7 of the players he states that the confederation never hated Slayers for this, but he himself was disappointed at ganzi for never being thankful to him
So many problems actually arise from a prevalent Asian tradition of being "grateful". You expect someone to pay back because you have been so generous to them. But when it comes to business, certainly expecting someone to be "grateful" is not enough.
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On October 18 2012 04:01 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:59 Swords wrote:
Finally, I think airing all the dirty laundry as the team collapses does nobody any favors. It makes Jessica look like a drama queen. It makes the players look completely unhireable (which sucks for someone like Alicia or MMA who're obviously extremely talented). Finally, it makes the whole Korean scene look shitty with the accusations to ESF, IM, etc. Nobody gained anything from these revelations, people are only going to be hurt by them. Disagree. ->IF<- she's right, at least we will get a new picture of our cherished "korean eSport-World". Which seems to be in fact nothing more than a corrupt shithole with alot of backstabbing right now. And thats actually nice to know.
Agreed if this is true it should become known and it needs to be stopped
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On October 18 2012 04:01 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:59 Swords wrote:
Finally, I think airing all the dirty laundry as the team collapses does nobody any favors. It makes Jessica look like a drama queen. It makes the players look completely unhireable (which sucks for someone like Alicia or MMA who're obviously extremely talented). Finally, it makes the whole Korean scene look shitty with the accusations to ESF, IM, etc. Nobody gained anything from these revelations, people are only going to be hurt by them. Disagree. ->IF<- she's right, at least we will get a new picture of our cherished "korean eSport-World". Which seems to be in fact nothing more than a corrupt shithole with alot of backstabbing right now. And thats actually nice to know.
Exactly. Having a more accurate view of the world is pretty much always a good thing in my mind.
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On October 18 2012 03:59 Swords wrote:
I feel like there's a ton of speculation and accusations happening here without knowing the full story. We have Jessica's side of everything, which is a good start and probably the most comprehensive, as she interacted with all these players. However, I can't in good conscience say nasty stuff about the players and others involved until I get their side of the story. Before we all declare Alicia, MMA, etc. as divas and "bad for esports" we should at least get their side of the story and see more evidence for what's been said here.
I do find it hard to believe that this one team managed to have so much drama, and somehow everyone but Jessica was responsible for it. Even if she wasn't the main cause of drama (and I think she definitely tried to make Slayers the best team it could be) you cannot be in such a position of power and allow this to happen without making some mistakes or errors.
Finally, I think airing all the dirty laundry as the team collapses does nobody any favors. It makes Jessica look like a drama queen. It makes the players look completely unhireable (which sucks for someone like Alicia or MMA who're obviously extremely talented). Finally, it makes the whole Korean scene look shitty with the accusations to ESF, IM, etc. Nobody gained anything from these revelations, people are only going to be hurt by them.
Except nothing gets changed/improved if no one talks about it.
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On October 18 2012 04:02 Rhine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:59 ssxsilver wrote:On October 18 2012 03:56 felisconcolori wrote:On October 18 2012 03:51 Lunareste wrote:On October 18 2012 03:46 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:45 Lunareste wrote:On October 18 2012 03:40 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:38 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 03:37 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:30 deezy wrote:
[quote]
I think you are twisting this too much. If you read the article, it points out that some of these things were out of her reach. You can't account for other peoples' actions especially when the ball isn't in your court. If anything, she deserves more respect for protecting the team and their players. If you don't believe in something, why are you going to join them, especially when they are so quick to turn against you without hearing both sides? Twisting what? this is one side of the story (hers) which you can clearly see a lack of leadership on her part. She is basically saying everyone was out to get her and she had no idea why this was happening, which is poor leadership at its core. Also ripping all your players right when they are going to be looking for jobs is really bad form... If what she says is accurate then the players don't deserve jobs Yes I'm sure everyone on the team was terrible and she was an angel and the best leader of all time!!!!! happy now? someone must have a crush rofl... If you hate Jessica so much, why not just leave the fucking thread? Giving someone the benefit of the doubt because you suspect their emotions are sincere is not the same as having a crush on someone. Get over yourself. I said she was a poor leader and that does not equal hating someone.... If you think she is a strong leader based on that interview I am interested on hearing why. You're the only person in this entire series of quotes here to ever say anything about what kind of leader she is. I'm not going to give my opinions because they would obviously be lost on you; your bias is quite clear and your disrespect of other forum members "someone must have a crush rofl..." diminishes my wishes to have a conversation of any kind with you. I, sir, am interested in your opinions. Because, from a strictly business management viewpoint, I have to note there appear to be holes in her management style. Leadership is not about dictating on the basis of contract legalities or because you are the manager. (I know, many people in actual management positions fail to grasp this as well.) Based on Jessica's own statements, she seems to lack a comprehensive and unemotionally burdened conflict resolution process - perhaps because of her deep emotional involvement and conviction of looking out for a player's best interests. But I am interested in your opinion on Jessica as a leadership figure. She and Boxer must have done something good. You don't accidently win a GSTL title, develop a consistent winner, and secure early sponsors if you're as incompetent as some members of this thread like to claim they are. You're right and she and her staff deserve credit. But you also don't get everyone to stop respecting you for no reason. Somehow you never hear about other managers/coaches have all these problems.
Guess that depends on the age of the guy you want to "corrupt". I actually think its pretty easy to manipulate players into disrespecting someone for no apparent reason. You just need to start something, the rest will come by itself.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
I just read the translated and damn 
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The sad thing is that brown, dark, arthur, miya all seemed to be talented and could have been succesful in a few months...
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On October 18 2012 03:25 Cygoris wrote:
You don't disband a successful team because you're butt hurt.
+9999
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Can someone familiar with korean culture tell us whether this whole "I was so good to them, why did they do this to me" thing is common and accepted in the workplace, or if it is a personal attitude of Jessica's?
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wow this is CRAZY!!!! im really tired of E-Sports drama tho..
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On October 18 2012 04:06 WigglingSquid wrote:
Can someone familiar with korean culture tell us whether this whole "I was so good to them, why did they do this to me" thing is common and accepted in the workplace, or if it is a personal attitude of Jessica's?
Seems to be a Korean culture?
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United States7639 Posts
On October 18 2012 04:02 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:58 Penev wrote:
This thread could do with a lot less sexism. If you'd substitute some of the sexist remarks with racist ones there would be al lot more bans (no, I'm not a woman). Well, there isn't too much. Only because people say Jessica is a drama queen and she doesn't appear to have good management skills, that doesn't mean it's sexism. Maybe i missed more offensive posts though. Her being a drama queen is something that is based on many articles in the past.
There's plenty of sexism AND racism in this thread. I've seen several posts basically saying things like "she's just being overdramatic about the tiniest things because that's how women are" and "I now think worse of Koreans because obviously a few bad individuals are representative of an entire country."
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On October 18 2012 03:59 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:56 felisconcolori wrote:On October 18 2012 03:51 Lunareste wrote:On October 18 2012 03:46 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:45 Lunareste wrote:On October 18 2012 03:40 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:38 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 03:37 theonemav wrote:On October 18 2012 03:30 deezy wrote:On October 18 2012 03:28 theonemav wrote:
[quote]
uh I never said this was her fault... just pointing out this interview really points out her flaws as a leader. I think you are twisting this too much. If you read the article, it points out that some of these things were out of her reach. You can't account for other peoples' actions especially when the ball isn't in your court. If anything, she deserves more respect for protecting the team and their players. If you don't believe in something, why are you going to join them, especially when they are so quick to turn against you without hearing both sides? Twisting what? this is one side of the story (hers) which you can clearly see a lack of leadership on her part. She is basically saying everyone was out to get her and she had no idea why this was happening, which is poor leadership at its core. Also ripping all your players right when they are going to be looking for jobs is really bad form... If what she says is accurate then the players don't deserve jobs Yes I'm sure everyone on the team was terrible and she was an angel and the best leader of all time!!!!! happy now? someone must have a crush rofl... If you hate Jessica so much, why not just leave the fucking thread? Giving someone the benefit of the doubt because you suspect their emotions are sincere is not the same as having a crush on someone. Get over yourself. I said she was a poor leader and that does not equal hating someone.... If you think she is a strong leader based on that interview I am interested on hearing why. You're the only person in this entire series of quotes here to ever say anything about what kind of leader she is. I'm not going to give my opinions because they would obviously be lost on you; your bias is quite clear and your disrespect of other forum members "someone must have a crush rofl..." diminishes my wishes to have a conversation of any kind with you. I, sir, am interested in your opinions. Because, from a strictly business management viewpoint, I have to note there appear to be holes in her management style. Leadership is not about dictating on the basis of contract legalities or because you are the manager. (I know, many people in actual management positions fail to grasp this as well.) Based on Jessica's own statements, she seems to lack a comprehensive and unemotionally burdened conflict resolution process - perhaps because of her deep emotional involvement and conviction of looking out for a player's best interests. But I am interested in your opinion on Jessica as a leadership figure. She and Boxer must have done something good. You don't accidently win a GSTL title, develop a consistent winner, and secure early sponsors if you're as incompetent as some members of this thread like to claim they are.
It is possible for a business to succeed in spite of leadership problems if the right people are in the right key positions. BoxeR himself is proven eSports figure, and could garner sponsors on his name and past achievements alone. He is the Emperor. Winning titles can be a result of good performances from individual players and the coaches, and I would laugh at anyone that says BoxeR or Cella are bad coaches. Nothing you mention above can prove that Jessica is a great leader, however. Many enterprises can succeed despite a lack of leadership or bad leadership - they just might not do as well as they could under great leadership.
Then too, there could have been wonderful leadership that declined. The translated statements from Jessica simply don't portray the image of excellent leadership skills being actively employed. Rather a cycle of emotional hurt, disengagement, and eventual resignation. (There is a lot of room for more information within those statements. But what I read doesn't imply engaged problem solving from any side. The "Cella didn't pick me up from the airport" issue especially lacks any kind of cooperative problem solving attempt.)
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Oh no
Too bad talents like CoCa, Puzzle and Min are moving to LoL, they had so much potential. Sad to see BoxeR's brainchild end up so disarrayed and destroyed like this. Best of luck to all the remaining SlayerS members, hope they find teams that fit them well.
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Damn, I knew that SlayerS was in a low point, but that's still a top caliber team disbanding.
Gonna be a crazy shuffle for teams like Axiom and Apex
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On October 18 2012 04:04 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:59 Swords wrote:
I feel like there's a ton of speculation and accusations happening here without knowing the full story. We have Jessica's side of everything, which is a good start and probably the most comprehensive, as she interacted with all these players. However, I can't in good conscience say nasty stuff about the players and others involved until I get their side of the story. Before we all declare Alicia, MMA, etc. as divas and "bad for esports" we should at least get their side of the story and see more evidence for what's been said here.
I do find it hard to believe that this one team managed to have so much drama, and somehow everyone but Jessica was responsible for it. Even if she wasn't the main cause of drama (and I think she definitely tried to make Slayers the best team it could be) you cannot be in such a position of power and allow this to happen without making some mistakes or errors.
Finally, I think airing all the dirty laundry as the team collapses does nobody any favors. It makes Jessica look like a drama queen. It makes the players look completely unhireable (which sucks for someone like Alicia or MMA who're obviously extremely talented). Finally, it makes the whole Korean scene look shitty with the accusations to ESF, IM, etc. Nobody gained anything from these revelations, people are only going to be hurt by them. Except nothing gets changed/improved if no one talks about it.
I'm honestly asking here (not trolling), what could be changed/improved from this in the future? What could we gain from knowing all the drama? Just seems to me like all of the issues here are personal in nature.
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Man, that sucks, such a bad string of events.
I wish for the best for the players.
/Y
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United States15275 Posts
On October 18 2012 04:02 zestzorb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:57 Jebusrocks wrote:On October 18 2012 03:36 felisconcolori wrote:... I can't read Korean. -_- Seeker (or any other awesome wonderful translator people whose names spring into my head), your our only hope. (Sophisticated zing, Waxangel.) The article goes on about when ganzi first began playing SC2, Mvp approached him and they played together. Because IM had a slot open in the amateur division, they tried to acquire Ganzi, telling him that living conditions might be bad. ganzi said that as long as he has a place to play sc2 he doesnt mind and joined, becoming #1 on the ladder in a few months With this increase in skill they decided to enter him in a tourney (dunno which one) but the night before the tourney, Ganzi expressed his interest in joining slayers. The IM coach, sort of disappointed, contacted coach Sung sang Hoon (is that cella), who said they never offered Ganzi anything. The coach apologized and hung up, Ganzi left the house next morning without a "Thank you" or "sorry". Furthermore Ganzi texted the coach, saying that he was no longer welcome in slayers so solve this for me (i think thats what it says, my korean is pretty bad these days). ganzi was never contracted to IM, but the coach was still angry cuz he had accepted Ganzi only a few days into Ganzi's entrance into sc2, and thought Ganzi should be more grateful. He also wasn't sure if he was talking to slayers while he was in the IM house So he approached a bunch of coaches ( I believe all are part of the Sc2 con they had prior to esf). He NEVER advised the group to ban Ganzi from joining a team, rather, he wanted to make sure players couldnt just hop from team to team. He became more mad when Jessica said a bunch of things about IM regarding Ganzi (such as IM was asking 500 000 won for stayin in the player house (of which Jessica claimed there were 18) and that they just fooled around and never played the game) IM coach rebutted, saying that only twelve players were in the house, and that he had never made money from the house, asking 400 000 won from 7 of the players he states that the confederation never hated Slayers for this, but he himself was disappointed at ganzi for never being thankful to him So many problems actually arise from a prevalent Asian tradition of being "grateful". You expect someone to pay back because you have been so generous to them. But when it comes to business, certainly expecting someone to be "grateful" is not enough.
Considering the prevalent corruption in certain Asian business sectors, it is quite ironic.
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On October 18 2012 04:06 WigglingSquid wrote:
Can someone familiar with korean culture tell us whether this whole "I was so good to them, why did they do this to me" thing is common and accepted in the workplace, or if it is a personal attitude of Jessica's?
Looking at the TSL/IM coaches and whatnot who felt betrayed cause their kindness didn't get repaid by their players, no it's not just jessica.
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On October 18 2012 04:06 WigglingSquid wrote:
Can someone familiar with korean culture tell us whether this whole "I was so good to them, why did they do this to me" thing is common and accepted in the workplace, or if it is a personal attitude of Jessica's?
If you run your team as a family and are emotional involved it is a natural reaction. Thats the reason you don't normally run a company this way.
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EPT
