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On October 26 2012 01:12 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 00:49 jdsowa wrote:
With all due respect to alot of the pros, they came into SC2 already knowing how to play RTS. They don't know what it's like to play SC2 as a casual, so they don't get the frustrations people feel when they get cheesed or have their maxed army evaporate to storms in 8 seconds. Pro's get cheesed all the time and it's MORE frustrating for them because they all know they should be good enough to stop it. When a casual gets cheesed and looses they, more often than not, chalk it up to imbalance and don't give it a second thought. A pro analyses the replay and agonizes over why they suck so badly. In a way you're correct, the professional experience and the casual experience are vastly different. But you're backwards. Blizzard did an admirable thing in trying to craft a game that made us feel like pro's. But it just doesn't work like that. We get all of the stress, anxiety, and self loathing without any of the reward. It's not that the pro's don't know what our experience is like, they know. It's that we get the bad parts of their experience and none of the good parts.
I think it just depends on a person's mindset. Idra on multiple account has always said some cheese, or builds are complete coinflips in sc2, and that losses from certain cheese, are just absolute losses that couldn't be prevented.
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Switzerland1923 Posts
On October 26 2012 01:24 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:12 Klondikebar wrote:On October 26 2012 00:49 jdsowa wrote:
With all due respect to alot of the pros, they came into SC2 already knowing how to play RTS. They don't know what it's like to play SC2 as a casual, so they don't get the frustrations people feel when they get cheesed or have their maxed army evaporate to storms in 8 seconds. Pro's get cheesed all the time and it's MORE frustrating for them because they all know they should be good enough to stop it. When a casual gets cheesed and looses they, more often than not, chalk it up to imbalance and don't give it a second thought. A pro analyses the replay and agonizes over why they suck so badly. In a way you're correct, the professional experience and the casual experience are vastly different. But you're backwards. Blizzard did an admirable thing in trying to craft a game that made us feel like pro's. But it just doesn't work like that. We get all of the stress, anxiety, and self loathing without any of the reward. It's not that the pro's don't know what our experience is like, they know. It's that we get the bad parts of their experience and none of the good parts. I think it just depends on a person's mindset. Idra on multiple account has always said some cheese, or builds are complete coinflips in sc2, and that losses from certain cheese, are just absolute losses that couldn't be prevented.
I've seen MKP hold a 6 pool when he was going CC first, so I don't believe any cheese are unbeatable if you have the skill it requires to hold them.
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On October 26 2012 01:29 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:24 wei2coolman wrote:On October 26 2012 01:12 Klondikebar wrote:On October 26 2012 00:49 jdsowa wrote:
With all due respect to alot of the pros, they came into SC2 already knowing how to play RTS. They don't know what it's like to play SC2 as a casual, so they don't get the frustrations people feel when they get cheesed or have their maxed army evaporate to storms in 8 seconds. Pro's get cheesed all the time and it's MORE frustrating for them because they all know they should be good enough to stop it. When a casual gets cheesed and looses they, more often than not, chalk it up to imbalance and don't give it a second thought. A pro analyses the replay and agonizes over why they suck so badly. In a way you're correct, the professional experience and the casual experience are vastly different. But you're backwards. Blizzard did an admirable thing in trying to craft a game that made us feel like pro's. But it just doesn't work like that. We get all of the stress, anxiety, and self loathing without any of the reward. It's not that the pro's don't know what our experience is like, they know. It's that we get the bad parts of their experience and none of the good parts. I think it just depends on a person's mindset. Idra on multiple account has always said some cheese, or builds are complete coinflips in sc2, and that losses from certain cheese, are just absolute losses that couldn't be prevented. I've seen MKP hold a 6 pool when he was going CC first, so I don't believe any cheese are unbeatable if you have the skill it requires to hold them.
6pool is a pretty weak cheese tbh. I think it was more reference to a blind 4gate or like some of the banshee builds terran were using earlier on against Z. Because it was impossible for zergs to scout the "banshee", because overlords were too slow, and would almost always get sniped by marines before the reaction timing window.
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On October 26 2012 01:29 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:24 wei2coolman wrote:On October 26 2012 01:12 Klondikebar wrote:On October 26 2012 00:49 jdsowa wrote:
With all due respect to alot of the pros, they came into SC2 already knowing how to play RTS. They don't know what it's like to play SC2 as a casual, so they don't get the frustrations people feel when they get cheesed or have their maxed army evaporate to storms in 8 seconds. Pro's get cheesed all the time and it's MORE frustrating for them because they all know they should be good enough to stop it. When a casual gets cheesed and looses they, more often than not, chalk it up to imbalance and don't give it a second thought. A pro analyses the replay and agonizes over why they suck so badly. In a way you're correct, the professional experience and the casual experience are vastly different. But you're backwards. Blizzard did an admirable thing in trying to craft a game that made us feel like pro's. But it just doesn't work like that. We get all of the stress, anxiety, and self loathing without any of the reward. It's not that the pro's don't know what our experience is like, they know. It's that we get the bad parts of their experience and none of the good parts. I think it just depends on a person's mindset. Idra on multiple account has always said some cheese, or builds are complete coinflips in sc2, and that losses from certain cheese, are just absolute losses that couldn't be prevented. I've seen MKP hold a 6 pool when he was going CC first, so I don't believe any cheese are unbeatable if you have the skill it requires to hold them.
I thought expo first was the counter to 6 pool because you have so many extra workers. I could COMPLETELY be talking out my ass but I thought it was interesting because it was one of the more counterintuitive build order wins.
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Blizzard just tweeted:
Soon, #HotS beta players are going to be able to join us in testing a new feature for #SC2 – Leveling! Learn more here: http://bit.ly/P5yqOt
hehe ^^
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On October 26 2012 02:02 Kyuki wrote:Blizzard just tweeted: Soon, #HotS beta players are going to be able to join us in testing a new feature for #SC2 – Leveling! Learn more here: http://bit.ly/P5yqOthehe ^^ That sounds quite interesting. At least it is something to show you that playing the game will get you somewhere/something. I mean sure it is just an arbitrary experience system with superficial rewards, but it is better than nothing.
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On October 26 2012 02:02 Kyuki wrote:Blizzard just tweeted: Soon, #HotS beta players are going to be able to join us in testing a new feature for #SC2 – Leveling! Learn more here: http://bit.ly/P5yqOthehe ^^
Thought this was a joke at first, Blizzard poking fun at Riot. Looks half decent though and I'm glad they're listening to the cries of the casual people.
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To me it looks like the interaction and feedback with the community starts to get more real and serious, even if it's a rather small step.. Before it feels like it's just been something kind of untangible factor for them that they usually don't use very well. We live in a different time, every organisation needs to change when time calls for it.
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why do people care what destiny thinks?
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On October 26 2012 02:18 FuzZyLogic wrote:
why do people care what destiny thinks?
If you noticed, destiny is not the only one who thinks like that. A lot of frustration has been building up for quite a long time, and all destiny did was conveniently poke a hole in the dam and now water is gushing out like mad.
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On October 26 2012 02:25 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:18 FuzZyLogic wrote:
why do people care what destiny thinks? If you noticed, destiny is not the only one who thinks like that. A lot of frustration has been building up for quite a long time, and all destiny did was conveniently poke a hole in the dam and now water is gushing out like mad.
A lot of people also believe the world is ending in december of this year because pre-industrial indians have a cyclic calendar that starts over at that point.
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On October 26 2012 02:25 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:18 FuzZyLogic wrote:
why do people care what destiny thinks? If you noticed, destiny is not the only one who thinks like that. A lot of frustration has been building up for quite a long time, and all destiny did was conveniently poke a hole in the dam and now water is gushing out like mad.
He simply states the obvious, no shit LoL has more players and viewers, it's a much larger game. Sc2 is losing stream numbers, no shit! I think he's just some troll starting drama desperately trying to stay relevant.. Also how the fuck can you tell if HoTS is a failure when there's major balance changes every week, if anything blizz can't fuck up any worse and it has managed to stabilize so far even with their relentless incompetence. I think there's simply more choices for viewers/players now and sc2 still has a large enough fan base even if there isn't growth/small decline, how does that mean the game is dying??
If you want to make money by being bad at games then you need to be "controversial", which is extremely easy in sc2 since we're so hungry for any kind of drama.
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On October 26 2012 02:35 FuzZyLogic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:25 don_kyuhote wrote:On October 26 2012 02:18 FuzZyLogic wrote:
why do people care what destiny thinks? If you noticed, destiny is not the only one who thinks like that. A lot of frustration has been building up for quite a long time, and all destiny did was conveniently poke a hole in the dam and now water is gushing out like mad. He simply states the obvious, no shit LoL has more players and viewers, it's a much larger game. Sc2 is losing stream numbers, no shit! I think he's just some troll starting drama desperately trying to stay relevant.. Also how the fuck can you tell if HoTS is a failure when there's major balance changes every week, if anything blizz can't fuck up any worse and it has managed to stabilize so far even with their relentless incompetence. I think there's simply more choices for viewers/players now and sc2 still has a large enough fan base even if there isn't growth/small decline, how does that mean the game is dying??
If he were desperately trying to stay relevant, he'd quit SC2 and play LoL.
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On October 26 2012 02:32 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:25 don_kyuhote wrote:On October 26 2012 02:18 FuzZyLogic wrote:
why do people care what destiny thinks? If you noticed, destiny is not the only one who thinks like that. A lot of frustration has been building up for quite a long time, and all destiny did was conveniently poke a hole in the dam and now water is gushing out like mad. A lot of people also believe the world is ending in december of this year because pre-industrial indians have a cyclic calendar that starts over at that point.
yeah, except public opinion in that regard is completely incomparable to our situation with hots
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On October 26 2012 02:40 Sixer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:32 VanGarde wrote:On October 26 2012 02:25 don_kyuhote wrote:On October 26 2012 02:18 FuzZyLogic wrote:
why do people care what destiny thinks? If you noticed, destiny is not the only one who thinks like that. A lot of frustration has been building up for quite a long time, and all destiny did was conveniently poke a hole in the dam and now water is gushing out like mad. A lot of people also believe the world is ending in december of this year because pre-industrial indians have a cyclic calendar that starts over at that point. yeah, except public opinion in that regard is completely incomparable to our situation with hots
No I was challenging the assertion that many people agreeing with something adds any kind of truth to it.
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Didn't he get most of his viewers from the sc2 community? A lot of people play both.. idk if he's a popular figure in the LoL community itself as he's not a good player and there's other LoL players that show personality (which is highly frowned upon in sc2).
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On October 26 2012 01:42 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:29 Lazzi wrote:On October 26 2012 01:24 wei2coolman wrote:On October 26 2012 01:12 Klondikebar wrote:On October 26 2012 00:49 jdsowa wrote:
With all due respect to alot of the pros, they came into SC2 already knowing how to play RTS. They don't know what it's like to play SC2 as a casual, so they don't get the frustrations people feel when they get cheesed or have their maxed army evaporate to storms in 8 seconds. Pro's get cheesed all the time and it's MORE frustrating for them because they all know they should be good enough to stop it. When a casual gets cheesed and looses they, more often than not, chalk it up to imbalance and don't give it a second thought. A pro analyses the replay and agonizes over why they suck so badly. In a way you're correct, the professional experience and the casual experience are vastly different. But you're backwards. Blizzard did an admirable thing in trying to craft a game that made us feel like pro's. But it just doesn't work like that. We get all of the stress, anxiety, and self loathing without any of the reward. It's not that the pro's don't know what our experience is like, they know. It's that we get the bad parts of their experience and none of the good parts. I think it just depends on a person's mindset. Idra on multiple account has always said some cheese, or builds are complete coinflips in sc2, and that losses from certain cheese, are just absolute losses that couldn't be prevented. I've seen MKP hold a 6 pool when he was going CC first, so I don't believe any cheese are unbeatable if you have the skill it requires to hold them. I thought expo first was the counter to 6 pool because you have so many extra workers. I could COMPLETELY be talking out my ass but I thought it was interesting because it was one of the more counterintuitive build order wins.
I've seen Leta hold off a 4pool from Great with a 14cc and winning, so it really comes down to personal micro and skills.
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On October 26 2012 02:42 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:40 Sixer wrote:On October 26 2012 02:32 VanGarde wrote:On October 26 2012 02:25 don_kyuhote wrote:On October 26 2012 02:18 FuzZyLogic wrote:
why do people care what destiny thinks? If you noticed, destiny is not the only one who thinks like that. A lot of frustration has been building up for quite a long time, and all destiny did was conveniently poke a hole in the dam and now water is gushing out like mad. A lot of people also believe the world is ending in december of this year because pre-industrial indians have a cyclic calendar that starts over at that point. yeah, except public opinion in that regard is completely incomparable to our situation with hots No I was challenging the assertion that many people agreeing with something adds any kind of truth to it.
You're right. A lot of people saying something does not make it true. That's why people discuss things, to arrive at their own truth and convince others of it. That's what this thread is doing, discussing Starcraft 2. Destiny started the discussion, and apparently some people agree with him, while some disagree. What's the problem?
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On October 26 2012 02:44 FuzZyLogic wrote:
Didn't he get most of his viewers from the sc2 community? A lot of people play both.. idk if he's a popular figure in the LoL community itself as he's not a good player and there's other LoL players that show personality (which is highly frowned upon in sc2).
What is that suppose to mean?
Sc2 has some of the most entertaining personalities out there. Genuine people that are funny , articulate, and interesting all without having to resort to petty insults and childish antics (of which there are still plenty of even in the sc2 community, I just dont find their personality that entertaining, some people have different standards I guess.)
I would make a list of them , but it's absurd to claim that "personality is frowned upon in sc2" so i wont bother, + it would take up too much damn room.
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I agree with Destiny's arguments...
What's all this crap on the credibility of Destiny?
No wait... don't even want to know...
Not sure if anyone has said this before:
"Thanks Destiny... for stipulating this clearly... certainly helped me to think about it differently."
Sure hope Blizzard listens and changes SC2 for the better...
Cheers, Tom.
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EPT
