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On October 26 2012 02:50 amazingxkcd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:42 Klondikebar wrote:On October 26 2012 01:29 Lazzi wrote:On October 26 2012 01:24 wei2coolman wrote:On October 26 2012 01:12 Klondikebar wrote:On October 26 2012 00:49 jdsowa wrote:
With all due respect to alot of the pros, they came into SC2 already knowing how to play RTS. They don't know what it's like to play SC2 as a casual, so they don't get the frustrations people feel when they get cheesed or have their maxed army evaporate to storms in 8 seconds. Pro's get cheesed all the time and it's MORE frustrating for them because they all know they should be good enough to stop it. When a casual gets cheesed and looses they, more often than not, chalk it up to imbalance and don't give it a second thought. A pro analyses the replay and agonizes over why they suck so badly. In a way you're correct, the professional experience and the casual experience are vastly different. But you're backwards. Blizzard did an admirable thing in trying to craft a game that made us feel like pro's. But it just doesn't work like that. We get all of the stress, anxiety, and self loathing without any of the reward. It's not that the pro's don't know what our experience is like, they know. It's that we get the bad parts of their experience and none of the good parts. I think it just depends on a person's mindset. Idra on multiple account has always said some cheese, or builds are complete coinflips in sc2, and that losses from certain cheese, are just absolute losses that couldn't be prevented. I've seen MKP hold a 6 pool when he was going CC first, so I don't believe any cheese are unbeatable if you have the skill it requires to hold them. I thought expo first was the counter to 6 pool because you have so many extra workers. I could COMPLETELY be talking out my ass but I thought it was interesting because it was one of the more counterintuitive build order wins. I've seen Leta hold off a 4pool from Great with a 14cc and winning, so it really comes down to personal micro and skills.
BW scv's and LaMancha. Don't think it's a good example.
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On October 26 2012 19:52 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:50 amazingxkcd wrote:On October 26 2012 01:42 Klondikebar wrote:On October 26 2012 01:29 Lazzi wrote:On October 26 2012 01:24 wei2coolman wrote:On October 26 2012 01:12 Klondikebar wrote:On October 26 2012 00:49 jdsowa wrote:
With all due respect to alot of the pros, they came into SC2 already knowing how to play RTS. They don't know what it's like to play SC2 as a casual, so they don't get the frustrations people feel when they get cheesed or have their maxed army evaporate to storms in 8 seconds. Pro's get cheesed all the time and it's MORE frustrating for them because they all know they should be good enough to stop it. When a casual gets cheesed and looses they, more often than not, chalk it up to imbalance and don't give it a second thought. A pro analyses the replay and agonizes over why they suck so badly. In a way you're correct, the professional experience and the casual experience are vastly different. But you're backwards. Blizzard did an admirable thing in trying to craft a game that made us feel like pro's. But it just doesn't work like that. We get all of the stress, anxiety, and self loathing without any of the reward. It's not that the pro's don't know what our experience is like, they know. It's that we get the bad parts of their experience and none of the good parts. I think it just depends on a person's mindset. Idra on multiple account has always said some cheese, or builds are complete coinflips in sc2, and that losses from certain cheese, are just absolute losses that couldn't be prevented. I've seen MKP hold a 6 pool when he was going CC first, so I don't believe any cheese are unbeatable if you have the skill it requires to hold them. I thought expo first was the counter to 6 pool because you have so many extra workers. I could COMPLETELY be talking out my ass but I thought it was interesting because it was one of the more counterintuitive build order wins. I've seen Leta hold off a 4pool from Great with a 14cc and winning, so it really comes down to personal micro and skills. BW scv's and LaMancha. Don't think it's a good example.
was just guna say that.. X_X
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If you dont like where SC2 is heading.. just come back to playing BW..
it is there, waiting for all of you patiently..
more and more tournaments are popping out, the korean scene is being revived
its all heading to good 
sure its not gonna be as big as before, but its still gonna be amazing and fun ! 
and you can still watch some SC2 (as I do sometimes)
I just think that Blizz is not the same company as they were.. since they merged with Activision, everything started to fuck up.. ;( sad thing indeed..
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On October 26 2012 02:44 FuzZyLogic wrote:
Didn't he get most of his viewers from the sc2 community? A lot of people play both.. idk if he's a popular figure in the LoL community itself as he's not a good player and there's other LoL players that show personality (which is highly frowned upon in sc2).
Why would Destiny or other people care what you think? See how that works?
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For me the main problem for the present and future of the sc2 are the Dev team, take HOTS as example. They showed us the new HOTS units in October 2011 at Blizzcon, this meas they have been working on them some months before. The beta was opened in September, thats more than a year working on these units and 1 month into the beta warhound removed, oracle, mother core and mines completely changed.
I wonder what they did in this year before beta. Did they even test the units. Did they even think how units would work and fit or they just throw stuff and see how it goes and units looks cool enough for them to keep it. My faith in the ability of the Dev team in solving and make the game better is close to nil
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On October 26 2012 20:53 Mephyss wrote:
For me the main problem for the present and future of the sc2 are the Dev team, take HOTS as example. They showed us the new HOTS units in October 2011 at Blizzcon, this meas they have been working on them some months before. The beta was opened in September, thats more than a year working on these units and 1 month into the beta warhound removed, oracle, mother core and mines completely changed.
I wonder what they did in this year before beta. Did they even test the units. Did they even think how units would work and fit or they just throw stuff and see how it goes and units looks cool enough for them to keep it. My faith in the ability of the Dev team in solving and make the game better is close to nil
You're blatantly ignoring the fact that a shitton of work goes into the singleplayer.
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On October 26 2012 20:55 Seiniyta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 20:53 Mephyss wrote:
For me the main problem for the present and future of the sc2 are the Dev team, take HOTS as example. They showed us the new HOTS units in October 2011 at Blizzcon, this meas they have been working on them some months before. The beta was opened in September, thats more than a year working on these units and 1 month into the beta warhound removed, oracle, mother core and mines completely changed.
I wonder what they did in this year before beta. Did they even test the units. Did they even think how units would work and fit or they just throw stuff and see how it goes and units looks cool enough for them to keep it. My faith in the ability of the Dev team in solving and make the game better is close to nil You're blatantly ignoring the fact that a shitton of work goes into the singleplayer.
Im not sure but on Blizzcon they had a multiplayer Dev team and a single player Dev team. At least they were separated on the panels
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On October 26 2012 02:44 FuzZyLogic wrote:
Didn't he get most of his viewers from the sc2 community? A lot of people play both.. idk if he's a popular figure in the LoL community itself as he's not a good player and there's other LoL players that show personality (which is highly frowned upon in sc2).
I would say all his viewers are from the sc2 community. Noone who is from a pure LoL background will ever watch his stream, as he is simply too bad at the game and there are tons of LoL streamers out there.
Which is why he has no option to switch to LoL even if he wanted to.
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On October 17 2012 22:01 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The current prize money level represents that of a very serious sport. We need to be making some strides in better payout structures, and rewarding more spots, but in the grand scheme of things, we are in a decent place. There is enough prize money to keep developing this scene. It's always good to improve payouts, but it's not something that keeps this from being a successful sport.
To put some facts I was previously unaware of behind this point http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/124oni/total_prize_money_given_out_between_the_4th_of/
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On October 27 2012 11:24 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 22:01 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The current prize money level represents that of a very serious sport. We need to be making some strides in better payout structures, and rewarding more spots, but in the grand scheme of things, we are in a decent place. There is enough prize money to keep developing this scene. It's always good to improve payouts, but it's not something that keeps this from being a successful sport.
To put some facts I was previously unaware of behind this point http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/124oni/total_prize_money_given_out_between_the_4th_of/
The site they linked is really informative.
614 SC2 Tournaments - $5.5 million overall earnings.
52 League of Legends Tournaments - $3.4 million overall earnings.
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On October 27 2012 11:24 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 22:01 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The current prize money level represents that of a very serious sport. We need to be making some strides in better payout structures, and rewarding more spots, but in the grand scheme of things, we are in a decent place. There is enough prize money to keep developing this scene. It's always good to improve payouts, but it's not something that keeps this from being a successful sport.
To put some facts I was previously unaware of behind this point http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/124oni/total_prize_money_given_out_between_the_4th_of/
On this note, I will say SC2 has been extremely successful in spite of Blizzard's shortcomings. Only hope they will fix the addressed problems.
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On October 27 2012 11:24 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 22:01 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The current prize money level represents that of a very serious sport. We need to be making some strides in better payout structures, and rewarding more spots, but in the grand scheme of things, we are in a decent place. There is enough prize money to keep developing this scene. It's always good to improve payouts, but it's not something that keeps this from being a successful sport.
To put some facts I was previously unaware of behind this point http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/124oni/total_prize_money_given_out_between_the_4th_of/
A respectable and rational personality at the top of the industry who as far as I know did NOT send any dick pictures to a superior and is also providing actual data to support a point. I like to dream that this is a sensible world where posts like these puts a swift and decisive end to the constant rants. Sadly I doubt this is the case..
However this illustrates the problem/reason that these things keep on going. It is very easy to pull out or invent numbers that stand alone but in some way cause people to react. There are lots of scary numbers you could pull out, League having 1 million viewers for event x, IdrA's stream count being down by x since last year. But numbers are completely irrelevant when not seen in perspective and when not taking in the whole picture
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So i guess this blog means that destiny officially quitted sc2
he hasnt been playing sc2 much for several month now
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On October 27 2012 11:46 act.hero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 11:24 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On October 17 2012 22:01 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The current prize money level represents that of a very serious sport. We need to be making some strides in better payout structures, and rewarding more spots, but in the grand scheme of things, we are in a decent place. There is enough prize money to keep developing this scene. It's always good to improve payouts, but it's not something that keeps this from being a successful sport.
To put some facts I was previously unaware of behind this point http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/124oni/total_prize_money_given_out_between_the_4th_of/ The site they linked is really informative. 614 SC2 Tournaments - $5.5 million overall earnings. 52 League of Legends Tournaments - $3.4 million overall earnings.
Direct link to where the various games are getting compared:
http://www.esportsearnings.com/games
StarCraft II
$5,565,561.62 earnings
over 614 Tournaments
League of Legends
$3,451,451.27 earnings
over 52 Tournaments
Dota 2
$3,426,729.83 earnings
over 25 Tournaments
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I would guess, around 4 million of that prize money was given by no more than 100 tournaments.
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On October 27 2012 12:38 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 11:46 act.hero wrote:On October 27 2012 11:24 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On October 17 2012 22:01 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The current prize money level represents that of a very serious sport. We need to be making some strides in better payout structures, and rewarding more spots, but in the grand scheme of things, we are in a decent place. There is enough prize money to keep developing this scene. It's always good to improve payouts, but it's not something that keeps this from being a successful sport.
To put some facts I was previously unaware of behind this point http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/124oni/total_prize_money_given_out_between_the_4th_of/ The site they linked is really informative. 614 SC2 Tournaments - $5.5 million overall earnings. 52 League of Legends Tournaments - $3.4 million overall earnings. Direct link to where the various games are getting compared: http://www.esportsearnings.com/gamesStarCraft II $5,565,561.62 earnings over 614 Tournaments League of Legends $3,451,451.27 earnings over 52 Tournaments Dota 2 $3,426,729.83 earnings over 25 Tournaments
Clearly with Dota 2 at the same levels as LoL but with only half the tournaments we can conclude that League of Legends is in fact dying as an e-sport unless something drastic is done to get more casuals to play the game immediately. </sarcasm>
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Gordon Hayward is playin LoL
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0oQ7s.png)
#signsofthesc2apocalypse
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If you want to do another comparison, lets look at MMA (the sport - no pun intended) - how many PPV does it sell and how many people actually compete/train in it and enjoy getting their faces punched and elbowed on a weekly basis?
It is also by far a really non-casual friendly sport, yet it is a great spectator sport.
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How does he seriously bring up brood war as being the greatest e-sport when it had NO casual accessibility at all except for custom maps.
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On October 27 2012 14:50 fearus wrote:
If you want to do another comparison, lets look at MMA (the sport - no pun intended) - how many PPV does it sell and how many people actually compete/train in it and enjoy getting their faces punched and elbowed on a weekly basis?
It is also by far a really non-casual friendly sport, yet it is a great spectator sport.
By far the worst comparison ever :F
Football would be a better one. anybody can play it but only a few (out of those playing) at top-level.
When I bought BW I mainly played the SP and later on mainly custom games and after some time I quit playing. Same happened with SC2, it took a bit longer though. I can't see myself buying any "add-on" if the SP isnt amazing. The MP just does not give me any long-time motivation like other's MP does.
The best e-sports games so far were Quake and UnrealTournament. Both easily casually playable due to Cup formats with different divisions. OpenCups for everyone, NationsCups, EuroCups for the best clans out there etc. THAT was e-sport.
Just my 50cents
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EPT
