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On October 15 2012 09:55 Divergence wrote:
We can't let the oppressors win!
Stephano is the only foreigner hope (well there's Naniwa but I prefer a hero who is more socially "neurotypical").
All he did was make a joke about some underage girl. Anyone who isn't a butthurt politically correct feminazi wouldn't have been offended. But damn, some people had to just go and ruin it for the rest of us.
Looking forward into the future, it is imperative that we cannot let the oppressors win. Stephano may not be the hero we deserve, but by the grace of Kerrigan he is one we need right now.
That's a pretty sick ass joke if you ask me.
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It's not the kind of joke that a child should read, but we're all adults here right?
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On October 15 2012 09:55 Divergence wrote:
We can't let the oppressors win!
Stephano is the only foreigner hope (well there's Naniwa but I prefer a hero who is more socially "neurotypical").
All he did was make a joke about some underage girl. Anyone who isn't a butthurt politically correct feminazi wouldn't have been offended. But damn, some people had to just go and ruin it for the rest of us.
Looking forward into the future, it is imperative that we cannot let the oppressors win. Stephano may not be the hero we deserve, but by the grace of Kerrigan he is one we need right now.
Well said mate, Stephano for President. 
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On October 15 2012 10:07 Divergence wrote:
It's not the kind of joke that a child should read, but we're all adults here right?
Yep, children don't play SC2, Startale Life has the maturity of a father with 2 kids.
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As a current law student I would love to see the employment contract that was signed by Stephano. There is no way it could be legal for them to suspend him without pay for mere allegations. Furthermore, he did not purposely, knowingly or recklessly commit an act that would reflect poorly on EG, its sponsors or himself. You might say he did so negligently however, he cannot be held financially responsible for such acts. If he did commit the act either purposely or knowingly I would say he is responsible; but not responsible financially for reckless or negligently.
If Stephano thinks he was wronged and wants to recover, he could contact an attorney to look over the contract and sue for lost wages and for potential future lost wages by not participating in any tourneys. Sorry, but EG's financial actions are not warranted and have no validity.
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On October 15 2012 10:13 cabosetv wrote:
As a current law student I would love to see the employment contract that was signed by Stephano. There is no way it could be legal for them to suspend him without pay for mere allegations. Furthermore, he did not purposely, knowingly or recklessly commit an act that would reflect poorly on EG, its sponsors or himself. You might say he did so negligently however, he cannot be held financially responsible for such acts. If he did commit the act either purposely or knowingly I would say he is responsible; but not responsible financially for reckless or negligently.
If Stephano thinks he was wronged and wants to recover, he could contact an attorney to look over the contract and sue for lost wages and for potential future lost wages by not participating in any tourneys. Sorry, but EG's financial actions are not warranted and have no validity.
Well said.
I hadn't even considered the legal angle.
Maybe we should all pitch in for some legal counsel for Stephano. Then we can watch him reject the help and go get drunk with the money, like the hero this community deserves!
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If children are on a stream that is 18+ of have warning of mature language, like i know alot of streams have then they are going to be exposed to some R Rated language.. I mean that's why it says mature language right? Also this community has a big problem with the level of political correctness that everyone needs to have.
Before i continue along this rant i'll say that what Stephano said was inappropriate and honestly if something like that was true; i think he would make sure that who he's telling isn't streaming or even at home where people in house could read. Like i don't message my friend online about certain things in case his parents are around.
Now about this level of political-correctness that people seem to have in eSports is completely retarded. We are trying to act like were running UN delegations or some government level form of heavy politics where if anything you say is misconstrued it could have huge ramifications. Honestly i won't go too much further but i know people agree with what i'm talking about iv heard many times before. For example the whole thing with scarlet and puck, and me just mentioning them two by name here is going to get this reply banned if the previous tone wasn't enough. It's like Voldemort type shit, or should i say, he/she who shouldn't be named. Seriously, this 'industry' needs to grow up. Even the players.
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On October 15 2012 10:25 Divergence wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 10:13 cabosetv wrote:
As a current law student I would love to see the employment contract that was signed by Stephano. There is no way it could be legal for them to suspend him without pay for mere allegations. Furthermore, he did not purposely, knowingly or recklessly commit an act that would reflect poorly on EG, its sponsors or himself. You might say he did so negligently however, he cannot be held financially responsible for such acts. If he did commit the act either purposely or knowingly I would say he is responsible; but not responsible financially for reckless or negligently.
If Stephano thinks he was wronged and wants to recover, he could contact an attorney to look over the contract and sue for lost wages and for potential future lost wages by not participating in any tourneys. Sorry, but EG's financial actions are not warranted and have no validity. Well said. I hadn't even considered the legal angle. Maybe we should all pitch in for some legal counsel for Stephano. Then we can watch him reject the help and go get drunk, like a true hero!
That would just make his current situation worse honestly, people should just forget what happened and move on.
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As a current law student
And that's where you have no more credibility talking about legal issues than a layperson, you're a law student. You don't have a degree and you aren't a member of the bar or licensed to practice law. You don't know the terms of Stephano's contract so basically you make an invalid appeal to authority and then base two paragraphs off a totally unsupported assertion.
Which is immediately followed by another assertion:
Furthermore, he did not purposely, knowingly or recklessly commit an act that would reflect poorly on EG, its sponsors or himself
Except that being a public figure joking about abusing a 14 year old in a highly charged environment (thanks mostly to the reprehensible subreddit SRS) is not only reckless, it's foolish.
And then another assertion:
You might say he did so negligently however, he cannot be held financially responsible for such acts
He can be held responsible in any way and for any reason his contract says he can.
The argument you're advancing was advocated four decades by NFL players; they lost. You're talking pure nonsense about contracts and responsibility and blah blah blah.
Seriously, this industry does need to grow up. No public figure can expect to get away with comments of an offensive nature being put up where thousands of people can or will see them. Esports is no different from any other professional sports organization, it's the real world where the unfair mean adult rules apply, and the don't give a fuck attitude of 14-25 year olds doesn't matter. Don't like it, then seriously, you need to grow up.
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Hahaha, I love it. Everyone's a law student these days whenever these threads crop up.
Anyways, discussing legalities is dumb when we don't have the contract, lol. Though, tbh, given Stephano's character and past history, I would not be surprised if he signed the contract without reading it.
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On October 15 2012 09:55 Divergence wrote:
We can't let the oppressors win!
Stephano is the only foreigner hope (well there's Naniwa but I prefer a hero who is more socially "neurotypical").
All he did was make a joke about some underage girl. Anyone who isn't a butthurt politically correct feminazi wouldn't have been offended. But damn, some people had to just go and ruin it for the rest of us.
Looking forward into the future, it is imperative that we cannot let the oppressors win. Stephano may not be the hero we deserve, but by the grace of Kerrigan he is one we need right now.
WTF?
#1: How do you know it was a joke?
#2: How do you know he was talking about a girl?
#3: Even if he was joking about an underage girl, he wasn't just talking about sex (which still would have been illegal at his age), he was talking about straight-up abuse. A joke about abusing a minor is never okay, especially when there's a chance that he actually committed this crime.
You don't want the oppressors to win?
Actually, you're rooting for the real oppressors when you advocate this kind of behavior.
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Seriously, this industry does need to grow up. No public figure can expect to get away with comments of an offensive nature being put up where thousands of people can or will see them. Esports is no different from any other professional sports organization, it's the real world where the unfair mean adult rules apply, and the don't give a fuck attitude of 14-25 year olds doesn't matter. Don't like it, then seriously, you need to grow up.
Thank you. I said something similar about thirty pages ago, but I doubt anybody saw it.
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On October 15 2012 10:34 DeepElemBlues wrote:And that's where you have no more credibility talking about legal issues than a layperson, you're a law student. You don't have a degree and you aren't a member of the bar or licensed to practice law. You don't know the terms of Stephano's contract so basically you make an invalid appeal to authority and then base two paragraphs off a totally unsupported assertion. Which is immediately followed by another assertion: Show nested quote +Furthermore, he did not purposely, knowingly or recklessly commit an act that would reflect poorly on EG, its sponsors or himself Except that being a public figure joking about abusing a 14 year old in a highly charged environment (thanks mostly to the reprehensible subreddit SRS) is not only reckless, it's foolish. And then another assertion: Show nested quote +You might say he did so negligently however, he cannot be held financially responsible for such acts He can be held responsible in any way and for any reason his contract says he can. The argument you're advancing was advocated four decades by NFL players; they lost. You're talking pure nonsense about contracts and responsibility and blah blah blah. Seriously, this industry does need to grow up. No public figure can expect to get away with comments of an offensive nature being put up where thousands of people can or will see them. Esports is no different from any other professional sports organization, it's the real world where the unfair mean adult rules apply, and the don't give a fuck attitude of 14-25 year olds doesn't matter. Don't like it, then seriously, you need to grow up.
No creditability I would contest. Less then %1 of the US population go to law school. I would put myself up within the lucky few who have the chance to study law at a higher level. That being said, legally I do not have any creditability past a layman, however, within discussions and TL forums, I believe my education weighs in, also request for jury duty usually leads to me being dismissed right away.
I may not know his contract details, I clearly state that I would like to take a look at his contract. I also am speaking general about employment contracts and made certain assumptions about his possible terms. Next time, I will mention that I am making assumptions accordingly.
When i started going over what the rules he could of possibly broke, I came up something a long the lines of, committing an act Purposely or Knowingly that reflects poorly upon EG Mangers, Teammates, etc, Sponsors, or Himself, will not be tolerated and subject to disciple. Now again, this is an assumption I was thinking subconsciously and thus analyzed the descriptions of intent that are common in most jurisdictions.Again it was another assumption and could of simple stated, any act that reflects " ". This could encompass all acts. However, some jurisdictions will hold that if an individual commits an act negligently or recklessly, they cannot be held to being in breach.
I am unfamiliar with the NFL case and maybe if your provide more context around it, Ill go look it up on the Online DB.
Your statement that I am speaking pure nonsense has zero merit. It appears you have some degree of legal knowledge however not complete. My opinion is not completely wrong or nonsense. It gives a possible "best senario" for Stephano that could possibly be the exact issue he is in. I don't see any abuse of the law within my last opinion, and I stand by it.
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On October 15 2012 10:34 DeepElemBlues wrote:And that's where you have no more credibility talking about legal issues than a layperson, you're a law student. You don't have a degree and you aren't a member of the bar or licensed to practice law. You don't know the terms of Stephano's contract so basically you make an invalid appeal to authority and then base two paragraphs off a totally unsupported assertion. Which is immediately followed by another assertion: Show nested quote +Furthermore, he did not purposely, knowingly or recklessly commit an act that would reflect poorly on EG, its sponsors or himself Except that being a public figure joking about abusing a 14 year old in a highly charged environment (thanks mostly to the reprehensible subreddit SRS) is not only reckless, it's foolish. And then another assertion: Show nested quote +You might say he did so negligently however, he cannot be held financially responsible for such acts He can be held responsible in any way and for any reason his contract says he can. The argument you're advancing was advocated four decades by NFL players; they lost. You're talking pure nonsense about contracts and responsibility and blah blah blah. Seriously, this industry does need to grow up. No public figure can expect to get away with comments of an offensive nature being put up where thousands of people can or will see them. Esports is no different from any other professional sports organization, it's the real world where the unfair mean adult rules apply, and the don't give a fuck attitude of 14-25 year olds doesn't matter. Don't like it, then seriously, you need to grow up.
I'll try to be as non-hostile in my reply as possible. Attacking the credibility of a "law student", without first establishing any credibility in the subject of law for yourself is at most going to say that neither of you no what you are talking about. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise, I'm going to bet a law student knows more than a layperson (like yourself unless you prove otherwise) about the law. I know, huge stretch there, I might be going out on a huge limb with that one.
You are right in that he can be held responsible in any way his contract says he can. But as you yourself point out, we don't know what that contract says. So while theoretically stephano might have grounds to counteract what has happened, he probably doesn't want to. If I'm stephano and EG gives me a good deal, I'm probably willing to go through with something like this even if I don't think I'm entirely in the wrong.
Which brings me to my next point.
On October 15 2012 10:34 DeepElemBlues wrote:
No public figure can expect to get away with comments of an offensive nature being put up where thousands of people can or will see them
Did he have any reasonable expectation that his comments weren't going to remain private between him and a friend? Yes Bling was streaming, but is it the responsibility of Stephano to check to see that the guy he is private messaging is streaming or not?. In my opinion (just a layman like yourself mind you) the joke he made was pretty tasteless, but so far there has been no evidence to suggest he knowingly said so in an environment which could be assumed to be made public.
There really isn't a good answer here. It was a bad joke, and stephano is going to accept the consequences for it, end of story. As for the rest of your condescending post about how esports need to grow up, please take a look at the language you used and arguments you presented. I daresay it might prove to be quite the mirror.
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My recommendation to those who don't have a penchant for drama, and who feel this thread has run its course, is to stop posting in here, because you're only giving them more ammo to keep the thread going.
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When people start posting paragraphs, it's time to close the thread.
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The other moral is when you get paid $96,000 and are a huge figure in some business/following, and sign with an NA team for that matter, you can expect to surrender quite a bit of your privacy.
EDIT: not that that's fair or anything, it's just true, as we've seen here
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On October 15 2012 10:34 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +Furthermore, he did not purposely, knowingly or recklessly commit an act that would reflect poorly on EG, its sponsors or himself Except that being a public figure joking about abusing a 14 year old in a highly charged environment (thanks mostly to the reprehensible subreddit SRS) is not only reckless, it's foolish.
Forgot about this claim.
The above is a valid argument. I am not sure if you are familiar with the terms, purposely, knowing, recklessly and negligently.I would have to say his act was negligent given his last comment of-- I just realized you were streaming, I hope you dont show anyone--( paraphrased). This shows that Stephano himself does not realized his message was being made public. And the reasonable prudent person would agree that a private PM to a player would only be seen by that player. You cannot hold the standard that Stephano should of know that it was streamed. His last statement shows that he did not know he was streaming, thus did not Know the message was public. Nor did he breach the term purposely. His intent was not to purposely break the term. Recklessly is debatable, but I learn more towards negligently.
If he were to make the same comments on twitter, while streaming, in a tourney, I would agree with you 100%. However, a private message is held to a different standard then other forms of communication, at least I believe so. Else, everyone who ever talks bad about a company to anyone, on the phone privately, email, text message or even within the confines of his own home, would be in breach and held liable. Now, I do not know what form of law you know, but that is not the law here
~ Texas Law Student ~
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On October 15 2012 11:13 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 10:34 DeepElemBlues wrote:
No public figure can expect to get away with comments of an offensive nature being put up where thousands of people can or will see them Did he have any reasonable expectation that his comments weren't going to remain private between him and a friend? Yes Bling was streaming, but is it the responsibility of Stephano to check to see that the guy he is private messaging is streaming or not?. In my opinion (just a layman like yourself mind you) the joke he made was pretty tasteless, but so far there has been no evidence to suggest he knowingly said so in an environment which could be assumed to be made public. There really isn't a good answer here. It was a bad joke, and stephano is going to accept the consequences for it, end of story. As for the rest of your condescending post about how esports need to grow up, please take a look at the language you used and arguments you presented. I daresay it might prove to be quite the mirror.
To be honest, I do think Stephano should have assumed Bling was streaming. Simply because considering how much foreigners tend to stream it's a fairly good assumption to make...
On October 15 2012 11:20 cabosetv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 10:34 DeepElemBlues wrote:Furthermore, he did not purposely, knowingly or recklessly commit an act that would reflect poorly on EG, its sponsors or himself Except that being a public figure joking about abusing a 14 year old in a highly charged environment (thanks mostly to the reprehensible subreddit SRS) is not only reckless, it's foolish. Forgot about this claim. The above is a valid argument. I am not sure if you are familiar with the terms, purposely, knowing, recklessly and negligently.I would have to say his act was negligent given his last comment of-- I just realized you were streaming, I hope you dont show anyone--( paraphrased). This shows that Stephano himself does not realized his message was being made public. And the reasonable prudent person would agree that a private PM to a player would only be seen by that player. You cannot hold the standard that Stephano should of know that it was streamed. His last statement shows that he did not know he was streaming, thus did not Know the message was public. Nor did he breach the term purposely. His intent was not to purposely break the term. Recklessly and debatable, but I learn more towards negligently. If he were to make the same comments on twitter, while streaming, in a tourney, I would agree with you 100%. However, a private message is held to a different standard then other forms of communication, at least I so believe so. Else, everyone who ever talks bad about a company to anyone, on the phone privately, email, text message or even within the confines of his own home, would be in breach and held liable. Now, I do not know what form of law you know, but that is not the law here ~ Texas Law Student ~
What about the fact that he was probably on company time, since he was practising the game he was being paid to play? What would happen if it was discovered that I said something bad about my employer privately but while I was at work? Does that make a difference?
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On October 15 2012 10:03 Diceman45 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 09:55 Divergence wrote:
We can't let the oppressors win!
Stephano is the only foreigner hope (well there's Naniwa but I prefer a hero who is more socially "neurotypical").
All he did was make a joke about some underage girl. Anyone who isn't a butthurt politically correct feminazi wouldn't have been offended. But damn, some people had to just go and ruin it for the rest of us.
Looking forward into the future, it is imperative that we cannot let the oppressors win. Stephano may not be the hero we deserve, but by the grace of Kerrigan he is one we need right now. That's a pretty sick ass joke if you ask me.
You don't even know the joke. Nowhere did he say a "girl", it's inferred. Because out of context that's what most people assume, it may or may not be a correct assumption.
If you don't know the context you can't know the joke.
So it may or may not have been an sick ass joke. A MONTH is such a gross overreaction. Missing two of Europe's largest LANs? It's ridiculous.
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EPT
